Guild Wars 2

I’m torn. My friends and I are about to start a regular weekly session of GW2 with new characters. Most of us are inexperienced with the game. I am partly experienced, having played a few toons PvE (my level 47 Charr thief is my highest level toon).

I was originally going to go with an Asura engineer, getting into an Elixir Gun build as we are always going to be playing together in group (mostly PvE).

However, I have since learned that no one is opting to play a Charr! I had another idea for a Charr engineer with rifle/flamethrower, and have been kicking around the idea of going with this. We already have an Asura necromancer.

I know race means little in this game but I do like to keep a little variety in the party. As of now we have two Norn, two Asura, and two Sylvari. If I switch my Asura to a Charr, that will increase diversity a bit. Plus, Charr with a flamethrower.

OTOH, I already have a Charr and do not have any Asura toons ATM.

Any suggestions? Is Elixir Gun flat out better than Flamethrower for what we will be doing? Anything else I should consider?

For the record, other than me, the toons involved will be:

Norn Ranger
Norn Elementalist
Sylvari Thief
Sylvari Mesmer
Aura Necro

???

use both. most traits that affect the flamethrower also affect the elixir gun, though if you had to pick one, pick the flamethrower. better at tagging, more dmg, fire field, etc.

Is anyone else in the group focusing on support? If you didn’t want to slot both you can always swap as the situation changes.

Why choose when you can use them both!

They benefit from the same traits (Fireforged Trigger, Deadly Mixture) so there’s a natural synergy between both kits.

You don’t have to choose! The idea of a charr with a flamethrower is pretty hard to beat, though.

Really though, my best advice would be to do something different every time. You don’t really need a special “build” to play with friends the way you plan to. Flamethrower all the things one week, use static discharge and rifle the next, bombs the next. Your main hand weapons—pistol/pistol, pistol/shield or rifle—will stay the same, so no matter what other utilities you use you’ll never feel overwhelmed by playing with completely different skills.

Flamethrower in PvE is just a might kitten. For honest support go for grenades and elixier gun with many finishers.

Xyonon.3987:

Flamethrower in PvE is just a might kitten. For honest support go for grenades and elixier gun with many finishers.

Wit he said, although keep in mind that without grenadier your only throwing 2 grenades. I always recommend bomb kit for leveling. Even though the traits don’t match up as nice as FT/EG Bomb kit has great synergy with EG.

I would usually swap out instead of equipping both. The reason is that I went 30 Alchemy, and I would prefer an extra elixir slotted over the extra kit to swap to. Both are very good in these builds though, since as others have said nearly all traits affect both.

So you use the Elixir gun when you need condition cleansing, healing and debuffing, and the Flamethrower when you need more damage or a knockback.

Yup, bombs are awesome for leveling and pretty fun!

Agree with the above. FT+EG builds are good, because the traits synergize well. Especially now that Juggernaut is just a Master trait. You don’t need to run a full might stacking build to play Juggernaut, you can just use it to be tanky in the FT and stack a bit of extra damage. Choose literally anything for the third utility slot and you’re fine. As mentioned, Bomb Kit is a good choice but if you’re new to the Engineer you might not want to jump straight into 3 kits. Maybe an elixir until you get comfortable enough with FT+EG.

Everyone’s already touched on the FT/EG issue.

As for race, go with whichever you find more visibly appealing. I’d recommend asura simply because you don’t have one and they look great as engis (mine does). Don’t worry about group diversity because you won’t always play with that specific group.

Xyonon.3987:

Flamethrower in PvE is just a might kitten. For honest support go for grenades and elixier gun with many finishers.

Just curious, but what “support” does the Grenade Kit offer?

Phineas Poe.3018:

Xyonon.3987:

Flamethrower in PvE is just a might kitten. For honest support go for grenades and elixier gun with many finishers.

Just curious, but what “support” does the Grenade Kit offer?

I’m going to assume he means the vulnerability stacking and AoE freeze, with an additional blind.

But honestly, at almost any large scale PvE event and even dungeons depending on how many condition users are in your party, you’re going to be a lot more useful support wise with a FT/EG build due to the fire and light field access and blast. Cleansing and a little extra healing, with might buffing seems more useful in most situations.

the best pve support = vuln, might, fury stacking.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Xyonon.3987:

Flamethrower in PvE is just a might kitten. For honest support go for grenades and elixier gun with many finishers.

Just curious, but what “support” does the Grenade Kit offer?

Vuln stacking is one of the most powerful supports you can offer in dungeons and pve.

Not to mention the chills and blind.

Use the Flamethrower for offensive support, and then change to Elixir Gun when you need defensive support.

Grenades

• high amount of AoE damage
• 20 stacks of vournability to keep up
• with the "might on crit runes* you’ve got your 9 stacks might permanently just by yourself
• blind and freeze as soft cc

Elixier Gun

• removes all conditions of your team every 10 sec
• stunbreaker on F skill
• heal on F skill
• heavy ticking AoE with combo finisher explosion
• heal field
• swiftness

Shield

• reflection
• combofinisher explosion
• double line stun

Healtower

• heal on F skill
• combofield water on F skill (1 sec)
• combofield water on activation
• consume all the explosions for heal

On paper, the Grenade Kit sounds like a great “support” option. Blind and Chilled are both great CC options, and Vulnerability stacking contributes to group DPS.

But in actual application, results will vary. Significantly. Any monster that has Unshakeable (i.e., most of them—of those that actually matter in PvE) renders Blind 10% effective (in other words, useless), fully resists Chilled, and nerfs Vulnerability to 50% its posted duration.

If one must talk of support, it should be something that is 100% effective 100% of the time. I think the Grenade Kit is fantastic at a lot of things, especially DPS. But if one is concerned with “honest” support, take the Flamethrower or the Bomb Kit.

Phineas Poe.3018:

(…) Any monster that has Unshakeable (i.e., most of them—of those that actually matter in PvE) renders Blind 10% effective (in other words, useless), fully resists Chilled, and nerfs Vulnerability to 50% its posted duration.

If one must talk of support, it should be something that is 100% effective 100% of the time. I think the Grenade Kit is fantastic at a lot of things, especially DPS. But if one is concerned with “honest” support, take the Flamethrower (…).

What’s the support that Flamethrower offers you always speak about?

Oh, and even with on mobs with the Unshakeable attribute an grenade Engineer can inflict roughly 10 stacks of Vulnerability; but I guess ~10% more damage for the whole group isn’t “honest” support.

DesertRose.2031:

What’s the support that Flamethrower offers you always speak about?

Both the Flamethrower and the Bomb Kit offer a Fire field, which grants the ability to self-stack Might for one’s group.

DesertRose.2031:

Oh, and even with on mobs with the Unshakeable attribute an grenade Engineer can inflict roughly 10 stacks of Vulnerability; but I guess ~10% more damage for the whole group isn’t “honest” support.

Well, let’s get one thing straight. I’m not saying that the Grenade Kit is not in any way helpful or supportive. I think it’s plenty useful in providing offensive support. But I refuse to believe that it is a better support setup than an FT/EG user, which is the insinuation that brought us to this conversation in the first place.

And on the subject of Vulnerability, I would much rather compose a build around giving my group 12-15 stacks of Might. Adding 420-525 Power is nearly as useful (if not equal to or more so) to laying down 10 stacks of Vulnerability on a boss. Plus Might doesn’t exclude Condition Damage users, either.

Phineas Poe.3018:

DesertRose.2031:

What’s the support that Flamethrower offers you always speak about?

Both the Flamethrower and the Bomb Kit offer a Fire field, which grants the ability to self-stack Might for one’s group.

DesertRose.2031:

Oh, and even with on mobs with the Unshakeable attribute an grenade Engineer can inflict roughly 10 stacks of Vulnerability; but I guess ~10% more damage for the whole group isn’t “honest” support.

Well, let’s get one thing straight. I’m not saying that the Grenade Kit is not in any way helpful or supportive. I think it’s plenty useful in providing offensive support. But I refuse to believe that it is a better support setup than an FT/EG user, which is the insinuation that brought us to this conversation in the first place.

And on the subject of Vulnerability, I would much rather compose a build around giving my group 12-15 stacks of Might. Adding 420-525 Power is nearly as useful (if not equal to or more so) to laying down 10 stacks of Vulnerability on a boss. Plus Might doesn’t exclude Condition Damage users, either.

In a group setting it is far easier for other classes to provide the might than it is for them to stack vuln. Engi is the only class that can reliably stack and maintain vuln. So if your group is able to stack their own group might (very easy as wars, guards, and eles are part of the meta), it is far better for the engi to focus on vuln stacking. If not, then the might stacks from engi is more useful. There is also no reason you can’t do both though.

Flamethrower is a pretty poor choice if you want to generate Might. Bomb Kit has a way faster recharging fire field and thus synergies better with Elixir Gun than Flamethrower regarding Might generation. In fact a grenade Engineer can just as good generate Might as a Flamethrower Engineer. So, what’s the advantage of Flamethrower compared to Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit?

DesertRose.2031:

Flamethrower is a pretty poor choice if you want to generate Might. Bomb Kit has a way faster recharging fire field and thus synergies better with Elixir Gun than Flamethrower regarding Might generation.

It’s a 10-second long Fire field versus a 3-second long Fire field. Obviously Fire Bomb is going to have a shorter cooldown. As for “synergizing better” with the Elixir Gun: it’s true you’ll always have Fire Bomb available when Acid Bomb is ready. Napalm, by comparison, can have—at best—a 24 second cooldown. But in reality, this is a moot point, because my dungeon groups hit the Might cap without a second Acid Bomb.

DesertRose.2031:

In fact a grenade Engineer can just as good generate Might as a Flamethrower Engineer.

I’m not quite sure how that is the case, given that the Grenade Kit has neither a Fire field nor a Blast finisher in any of its skills. It’s additional utility skills, like Blast finishers, at your disposal that give the Grenade Kit Might stacking potential—the same ones could take with the Flamethrower along with a 10-second duration Fire field to actually detonate them in.

A Grenade Kit Engineer could choose to run the Bomb Kit as a second kit, giving them a Fire field and a Blast finisher. But then you’re down to one utility skill, substantially limiting your options. You’re forced to make decisions like whether to take the Elixir Gun or Elixir R—something that an FT Engi doesn’t have to do.

I hope this, to some extent, answers your question you asked here:

DesertRose.2031:

So, what’s the advantage of Flamethrower compared to Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit?

But in regard to the Bomb Kit vs. the Flamethrower, I think it comes down to play style choice. I think people should choose the kit they feel most comfortable with, or the kit that plays up to the kind of role they seek to fill in groups.

I think there’s considerable overlap between the Flamethrower, Bomb Kit, and Grenade Kit in what they can do, and I think that is in a lot of ways intentional. But they are mechanically very different from one another.

• While a lot of PvE content these days is dependent on stacking, I prefer that I can safely attack from 425 range when I need to, which the Bomb Kit can’t do.

• I prefer that Napalm is ground targeted, which Fire Bomb is not.

• I prefer that Smoke Vent can be used while stunned/knocked down, something Smoke Bomb cannot do (without ABD)—and on a much shorter cooldown.

• I prefer that the Flamethrower is significantly more survivable with 200 added Toughness thanks to Juggernaut, something the Bomb Kit does not have.

• And, perhaps most importantly, I prefer the Flamethrower because I think shooting plumes of smoke and fire is more aesthetically pleasing than bending over every 0.8 seconds; I find wielding it more entertaining. The advantage to running the Flamethrower is that I actually find it enjoyable to use.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I’m not quite sure how that is the case, given that the Grenade Kit has neither a Fire field nor a Blast finisher in any of its skills.

Lets assume no one else brings a fire field:
Flamethrower’s fire field has a cooldown of 30 seconds, or 24 if traited; that means you can use blast finisher to generate Might only every 30 receptively 24 seconds, even if they have a shorter cooldown. To actually make use of the short cooldown of e.g. Elixir Gun, Throw Mine, Rocket Boots or Healing Turret a Flamethrower Engineer has to bring another fire field which voids the only advantage the Flamethrower has over the Grenade Kit regarding Might generation. E.g. an Engineer with Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, Elixir Gun and Healing Turret is able to generate as much if not more Might stacks than one with Flamethrower, Rocket Boots, Elixir Gun and Healing Turret.

If someone else bring a fire field, e.g. a Lava Font Ele or a Bomb Kit Engineer:
The fire field of the Flamethrower makes hardly a difference.

DesertRose.2031:

E.g. an Engineer with Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, Elixir Gun and Healing Turret is able to generate as much if not more Might stacks than one with Flamethrower, Rocket Boots, Elixir Gun and Healing Turret.

You’d be making a point to me if I didn’t already say this.

Phineas Poe.3018:

A Grenade Kit Engineer could choose to run the Bomb Kit as a second kit, giving them a Fire field and a Blast finisher. But then you’re down to one utility skill, substantially limiting your options. You’re forced to make decisions like whether to take the Elixir Gun or Elixir R—something that an FT Engi doesn’t have to do.

Sorry, but your argument is ultimately unconvincing.

DesertRose.2031:

Lets assume no one else brings a fire field.

Why assume? I always tell people I party with that they don’t need other Fire fields, and just to use their Blast finishers in Napalm when I drop it. You simply don’t need a second Fire field if you coordinate.

Guardians in my guild will, if anything, run Hallowed Ground in addition to Napalm for Stability, but generally speaking if I’m wielding the FT—or if I’m in a group as a Guardian with someone else wielding the FT—I am (or they are) responsible for laying down the Fire field.

Because of Napalm’s long duration, it’s stupid-easy to hit the Might cap every 24 seconds. And because Area Might stacks last 20+ seconds, it’s all you need in the first place.

This is my last post on this subject, as I feel as though I’m just repeating myself at this point.