(edited by Brew Pinch.5731)
Flamethrower thread
I’ve never had a problem with flame blast, air blast but the flamejet seems to have issues hitting at times. And smoke vent is fine where it is, it is amazing for stomps.
(im a girl btw)
I’ve never had a problem with flame blast, air blast but the flamejet seems to have issues hitting at times. And smoke vent is fine where it is, it is amazing for stomps.
Smoke vent is certainly useful, and I don’t have any changes to suggest for it. It provides nothing else unlike other blinds though, that might be worthy of discussion.
Flame blast is such an annoying skill for me as it stands (a lot of that is due to the “projectiles shoot through the floor” bug that effect lots of weapons though) the blast on impact would definitely alleviate the frustration. I also like Air Blast.
The flamethrower also needs its damage scaling improved. Even with 25 might stack build, the damage is laughable relative to what other professions can do with AoE setups.
The flamethrower also needs its damage scaling improved. Even with 25 might stack build, the damage is laughable relative to what other professions can do with AoE setups.
I think it’s good as it is. It’s not meant to be burst, with 25 might stacks you melt people with sustained condition damage. Everyone you spam flame jet on basically has 5 stacks of vulnerability and constant burn and 7-10 stacks of bleed on them. That hurts alot when you have 25 stacks of might. Not to mention your flamethrower direct damage is already doing around 2k damage every time the jet finishes.
(im a girl btw)
Smoke vent can be very useful because you can cast it at anytime.
During rezzing or downing, during other long cast time skills (golems) or even when you are just gathering to avoid a mob interupt.
Flame jet suffers from the same problem all cone damage skills do and they all need to be fixed.
Flame blast is an annoying skill that wasn’t thought through and suffers from its own aiming problems. The worst is that a majority of the time using flame blast after air blast causes the shot to be “obstructed.” You can get around this by waiting untill the air blast skill stops blinking after you use it before hitting flame blast.
My guess is that when they changed Air blast to blast away enemies instead of pull enemies they left something in that actually obstructs the flame blast shot. Since it seems to be so easily obstructed.
The flamethrower also needs its damage scaling improved. Even with 25 might stack build, the damage is laughable relative to what other professions can do with AoE setups.
I think it’s good as it is. It’s not meant to be burst, with 25 might stacks you melt people with sustained condition damage. Everyone you spam flame jet on basically has 5 stacks of vulnerability and constant burn and 7-10 stacks of bleed on them. That hurts alot when you have 25 stacks of might. Not to mention your flamethrower direct damage is already doing around 2k damage every time the jet finishes.
100% crit chance
2.5s cast
1s burn, thus 40% uptime on burn (applied at the END of the channel, not start)
10 hits over 2.5s., again 100% crit chance.(I doubt you have 100%)
3 bleeds per 2.5s. for 3s.
50% chance of vul on 100% crit, for 2s vul. 5 stacks. none actually last a full ft1 duration.
So basically 4 stacks of vul. And it drops off, almost immediately if you stop. really that is a poor trait. skip it. vul also does not effect cond damage.
Flamethrowers burn and big damage number is deceptive. you see that tick and think, wow nice. However, when you take note of the 2.5s time it takes to deal it, it falls WAY behind everything else.
Especially when you consider its melee, has only 1 other damage skill.
Flamethower 1 needs a 100% damage increase. Its 1s burn basically needs +100% duration to gain any damage. that is unacceptable as well.
(edited by Casia.4281)
Flamejet could do with a longer range aswell as a damage boost. It takes 2seconds to wind up its full damage, which is then barely more then a single Hipshot which takes 3/4second.
DPS-wise, Flamethrower is really bad.
Flameblast actually hits for a decent amount. Its not easy to get it where you want it, and considering the trouble you go through to get it to hit, it just doesnt deal enough damage.
It should clearly be easier to use. Personally i also cringe at the way it works, a slow moving projectile (that can even be reflected) that moves in a straight line and explodes. Hmm, no. Let it work like i lob that projectile at my target, detonating upon impact with the ground. Fast enough that you cant just jog out of range. Speaking of range, a little more range would be great aswell.
Airblast is imo fine. It does a conal aoe knockback, and also reflect projectiles. If i would like to see anything with this, and if it is at all possible, it would be cool if it worked as an air wall. Reflect projectiles from the front. Double activation blows out as a knockback. Giving the Flamethrower some much needed defensiveness, aswell as a means to more safely aproach ranged targets.
Napalm is utter garbage. A long cooldown for essentially just a combofield. It doesnt do enough damage to work as a deterent, 1 tick of burning is laughable.
Instead, it should also get a longer range to place it and apply Cripple for 5seconds aswell as Burning (more then 1sec). Now THAT is a deterent, and would help keeping enemies more within range of the limited range of the Flamethrower. But still you the player has to use this ability properly, for example to block of the “escape” routes or use it to control an area.
Smokevent has its niche that it can be used while CCd and such. But its not enough to justify the very lenghty cooldown and very limited range.
Id reduce the cooldown a little and make it a Smoke combofield that lingers for a couple of seconds. Or even a smokewall, making the Flamethrower the Anti-projectile kit.
The flamethrower also needs its damage scaling improved. Even with 25 might stack build, the damage is laughable relative to what other professions can do with AoE setups.
I think it’s good as it is. It’s not meant to be burst, with 25 might stacks you melt people with sustained condition damage. Everyone you spam flame jet on basically has 5 stacks of vulnerability and constant burn and 7-10 stacks of bleed on them. That hurts alot when you have 25 stacks of might. Not to mention your flamethrower direct damage is already doing around 2k damage every time the jet finishes.
100% crit chance
2.5s cast1s burn, thus 40% uptime on burn (applied at the END of the channel, not start)
10 hits over 2.5s., again 100% crit chance.(I doubt you have 100%)
3 bleeds per 2.5s. for 3s.
50% chance of vul on 100% crit, for 2s vul. 5 stacks. none actually last a full ft1 duration.
So basically 4 stacks of vul. And it drops off, almost immediately if you stop. really that is a poor trait. skip it. vul also does not effect cond damage.Flamethrowers burn and big damage number is deceptive. you see that tick and think, wow nice. However, when you take note of the 2.5s time it takes to deal it, it falls WAY behind everything else.
Especially when you consider its melee, has only 1 other damage skill.Flamethower 1 needs a 100% damage increase. Its 1s burn basically needs +100% duration to gain any damage. that is unacceptable as well.
The build I use with flamethrower is 92% crit chance with fury. So I do actually basically have 100% crit chance.
You are also forgetting that we have a trait to cause burning for 2 seconds. You are also forgetting bleed sigils.
(im a girl btw)
The flamethrower also needs its damage scaling improved. Even with 25 might stack build, the damage is laughable relative to what other professions can do with AoE setups.
I think it’s good as it is. It’s not meant to be burst, with 25 might stacks you melt people with sustained condition damage. Everyone you spam flame jet on basically has 5 stacks of vulnerability and constant burn and 7-10 stacks of bleed on them. That hurts alot when you have 25 stacks of might. Not to mention your flamethrower direct damage is already doing around 2k damage every time the jet finishes.
I don’t melt PEOPLE. PEOPLE will kite a flamer about if they have the wits about them, forcing you to switch out to tool kit or an immobilize, effectively making you drop your juggernaut trait until you can close the gap.
But I don’t think the damage comes close to acceptable, in relation to what other professions do, AoE DPS wise. I also don’t see it as acceptable that p/p engineers can out-DPS it, even though Anet said that the damage and utility in our kits should result in weaker main hand weapons. Given that juggernaut is a GRANDMASTER trait, I expect that if I sacrifice that 30 points to be proficient in using the flamethrower to its maximum capability, then I should be able to compete at a similar level as other classes (again, as per Anet’s statements). But I can’t. With the flamethrower, I can blind people in melee, and knock them back with the air blast. But I can’t ever come close enough to the damage I can put out even using GRENADES after the 30% damage nerf. Using the flamethrower makes me feel like a mule. I DON’T feel like Hank Scorpio.
But yeah, the flamethrower can deal a decent amount of damage when looked at on its own. But relative to what other builds can do, (let alone other professions) it is awful. The only reason to use it is for 3+4 (fire field)+5 (basically just control), or because it looks very very cool. If people want to still use it, that’s fine with me. It’s fun to see, and meets the requirements of being USEABLE. And I embrace build diversity in engineers. But given what I see in game, and what I see based on math done by other members of that community, I can’t honestly say that the damage portion of the flamethrower is anywhere near a decent level to compete in AoE DPS.
Anet could start by stating whether they want the flamethrower to scale with power or condition damage. So far, people have been saying that it scales far better with power, which is a little bit unintuitive, if you ask me.
Given how much FT #1 misses when its used right now especially when you are running around or kiting, I personally would opt for the skill to instead be a channeled skill that makes you stationary for its duration while you sweep the flame back and forth and increase the damage.
The flamethrower also needs its damage scaling improved. Even with 25 might stack build, the damage is laughable relative to what other professions can do with AoE setups.
I think it’s good as it is. It’s not meant to be burst, with 25 might stacks you melt people with sustained condition damage. Everyone you spam flame jet on basically has 5 stacks of vulnerability and constant burn and 7-10 stacks of bleed on them. That hurts alot when you have 25 stacks of might. Not to mention your flamethrower direct damage is already doing around 2k damage every time the jet finishes.
I don’t melt PEOPLE. PEOPLE will kite a flamer about if they have the wits about them, forcing you to switch out to tool kit or an immobilize, effectively making you drop your juggernaut trait until you can close the gap.
But I don’t think the damage comes close to acceptable, in relation to what other professions do, AoE DPS wise. I also don’t see it as acceptable that p/p engineers can out-DPS it, even though Anet said that the damage and utility in our kits should result in weaker main hand weapons. Given that juggernaut is a GRANDMASTER trait, I expect that if I sacrifice that 30 points to be proficient in using the flamethrower to its maximum capability, then I should be able to compete at a similar level as other classes (again, as per Anet’s statements). But I can’t. With the flamethrower, I can blind people in melee, and knock them back with the air blast. But I can’t ever come close enough to the damage I can put out even using GRENADES after the 30% damage nerf. Using the flamethrower makes me feel like a mule. I DON’T feel like Hank Scorpio.
But yeah, the flamethrower can deal a decent amount of damage when looked at on its own. But relative to what other builds can do, (let alone other professions) it is awful. The only reason to use it is for 3+4 (fire field)+5 (basically just control), or because it looks very very cool. If people want to still use it, that’s fine with me. It’s fun to see, and meets the requirements of being USEABLE. And I embrace build diversity in engineers. But given what I see in game, and what I see based on math done by other members of that community, I can’t honestly say that the damage portion of the flamethrower is anywhere near a decent level to compete in AoE DPS.
Anet could start by stating whether they want the flamethrower to scale with power or condition damage. So far, people have been saying that it scales far better with power, which is a little bit unintuitive, if you ask me.
It’s hard to kite in team fights, just saying.
(im a girl btw)
snip
Which justifies a range increase. Our class is built around keeping the enemy away (tons of knockbacks/evade leaps). So having a weapon that cannot actually hit at the medium range we keep the enemy at is very strange. Considering that all signs point to flamethrower having meant to be effective at a greater range in addition to everything else, it seems a logical, solid “tweak” to help balance the kit.
the power vs cond thing.
everything scales better with power. everything.
But, it is a fairly complicated question.
spvp, that means less. in wvw/pve that power/crit etc scales so much more is pretty important when you are talking about 20k kill shots, and 15k wrench/burst builds vs 2600 armor targets. A burn ticking for 700 is nothing compared to getting hit for 20k instantly. spvp however, you don’t have 200% crit damage, 3000 power, and 80% crit chance. stats are capped much lower. direct damage cant get out of control with that multiple front scaling. cond has its place.
Nothing really wrong with scaling off both. focus on one, and the other is a bonus. might gives power and cond. works great for firearms, given its prec. anyway.
It’s hard to kite in team fights, just saying.
I respect the rational sentiment that damage should remain balanced, but I don’t think it’s valid to justify balance decisions on the chance that there is a teammate taking the attention.
Nothing really wrong with scaling off both. focus on one, and the other is a bonus. might gives power and cond. works great for firearms, given its prec. anyway.
Yeah…but…I don’t know…
….I just want to see the world burn…
It’s hard to kite in team fights, just saying.
I respect the rational sentiment that damage should remain balanced, but I don’t think it’s valid to justify balance decisions on the chance that there is a teammate taking the attention.
I think to balance a game you also need to think about every single situation, you can’t nerf or buff something because of a single situation. For example, rangers traps are extremely powerful at the treb because the area is such a small area you have to fight in, but it doesn’t make the utilities OP.
Besides, engineer was never meant to do a lot of damage, it was meant to be able to adapt and work with the situation they are giving. And with that comes the problem with the engineer core design, the kits. You guys are looking at the wrong thing to buff, what engineer need is versatility which they don’t have at the moment because we are pidgeon holed into basically 1 utility skill we really want / need because a stun breaker takes up a spot automatically then a kit takes up a spot as well. I think kit’s should be the F skills.
(im a girl btw)
that is a problem as well.
If FF was supposed to be “beefier”, to make up for its low damage, it still needs a bit more.
smoke vent being a stun breaker perhaps. No kit having a stun break is a limit to the profession.
I keep trying to go back to flamethrower, in hopes that I was just ignorant of some obvious build to make it viable, only to find myself disappointed by the unreliable damage and impossibility to hit targets during PvP.
What adds salt to the wound is the fact that my Elixir gun does slightly more damage than the FT. Just auto attackign with the Elixir gun will constantly stack a bleed on my target that just gets worst and worst the longer I shoot, then add in the chem spray to layer even more debuffs…………the FT is just garbage when a debuffing / healing gun is doing greater damage numbers than it!!
I keep trying to go back to flamethrower, in hopes that I was just ignorant of some obvious build to make it viable, only to find myself disappointed by the unreliable damage and impossibility to hit targets during PvP.
What adds salt to the wound is the fact that my Elixir gun does slightly more damage than the FT. Just auto attackign with the Elixir gun will constantly stack a bleed on my target that just gets worst and worst the longer I shoot, then add in the chem spray to layer even more debuffs…………the FT is just garbage when a debuffing / healing gun is doing greater damage numbers than it!!
Why do you guys compare everything in terms of numbers? You forget that the FT is aoe, has a aoe interupt, and a aoe blind.
(im a girl btw)
I actually really enjoy the mechanic of the 2 skill – you have to line up enemies perfectly, but when you do, there’s a high reward. The only problem is that the reward isn’t great enough for the work you have to put in.
On top of that, many people are disappointed by the fact that the 1 skill, while fun to use and see, actually doesn’t do a whole lot of damage.
What I would do -
Switch attacks 1 and 2. The work you have to put into setting up a flame blast for maximum damage is now offset by the fact that’s a spammable autoattack with no cooldown.
Flame jet is now on skill 2. It is more powerful as a consequence, perhaps applying a short burning on each tick. This would make a lot more sense than currently. The only downside I can see would be that we can no longer spam this skill for fun.
I keep trying to go back to flamethrower, in hopes that I was just ignorant of some obvious build to make it viable, only to find myself disappointed by the unreliable damage and impossibility to hit targets during PvP.
What adds salt to the wound is the fact that my Elixir gun does slightly more damage than the FT. Just auto attackign with the Elixir gun will constantly stack a bleed on my target that just gets worst and worst the longer I shoot, then add in the chem spray to layer even more debuffs…………the FT is just garbage when a debuffing / healing gun is doing greater damage numbers than it!!
Why do you guys compare everything in terms of numbers? You forget that the FT is aoe, has a aoe interupt, and a aoe blind.
are you saying our other kits/weapons don’t?
Pistol. aoe attack, aoe poison, aoe blind, aoe confuse. aoe immobilize/cripple.
Rifle. linear aoe.
single target immobalize. aoe interrupt/kb. can also be traited to aoe blind on crits.
grenade. aoe blind, aoe chill, aoe poison.
bomb. aoe kb, aoe blind, aoe confuse.
Nearly all our skills are aoe. Its hard to find one that isn’t.
We also have lots of blinds.
I keep trying to go back to flamethrower, in hopes that I was just ignorant of some obvious build to make it viable, only to find myself disappointed by the unreliable damage and impossibility to hit targets during PvP.
What adds salt to the wound is the fact that my Elixir gun does slightly more damage than the FT. Just auto attackign with the Elixir gun will constantly stack a bleed on my target that just gets worst and worst the longer I shoot, then add in the chem spray to layer even more debuffs…………the FT is just garbage when a debuffing / healing gun is doing greater damage numbers than it!!
Why do you guys compare everything in terms of numbers? You forget that the FT is aoe, has a aoe interupt, and a aoe blind.
are you saying our other kits/weapons don’t?
Pistol. aoe attack, aoe poison, aoe blind, aoe confuse. aoe immobilize/cripple.
Rifle. linear aoe.
single target immobalize. aoe interrupt/kb. can also be traited to aoe blind on crits.
grenade. aoe blind, aoe chill, aoe poison.
bomb. aoe kb, aoe blind, aoe confuse.Nearly all our skills are aoe. Its hard to find one that isn’t.
We also have lots of blinds.
You basically said elixir gun is better than the flamethrower because it does more damage, but elixir gun for the most part is single target.
(im a girl btw)
FT is great sustain aoe dmg against multiple enemies and personally i prefer it over nades in teamfights nowdays, afaik its not meant to be burst kit for dueling, if u want burst go with rifle. FT has its flaws(mainly missing issue and #2 is pretty useless) its just idiotic to complain if some spec doesn’t excel on every situation.
I keep trying to go back to flamethrower, in hopes that I was just ignorant of some obvious build to make it viable, only to find myself disappointed by the unreliable damage and impossibility to hit targets during PvP.
What adds salt to the wound is the fact that my Elixir gun does slightly more damage than the FT. Just auto attackign with the Elixir gun will constantly stack a bleed on my target that just gets worst and worst the longer I shoot, then add in the chem spray to layer even more debuffs…………the FT is just garbage when a debuffing / healing gun is doing greater damage numbers than it!!
Why do you guys compare everything in terms of numbers? You forget that the FT is aoe, has a aoe interupt, and a aoe blind.
Engineer does AoE with bombs, grenades and coated pistols as well. They clear much better than the FT does, as well.
I don’t know about other people, but if I wanted just the control aspects of flamethrower, then I can spec into a great bunker builds without putting 30 points into firearms, and still make use of the AoE interrupt and the AoE blind from the flamethrower (even the AoE aspect of 1+2 is outclassed by other options). I don’t even NEED the flamethrower for that, either.
My problem is that, if I spec 30 points down the firearms line, I expect a decent return on that investment, which is the ability to use the flamethrower as my primary weapon for damage. When you look at the applicable traits for optimizing the flamethrower, it seems to be that this was an intended path by Anet. Because of how much you have to invest to optimize the flamethrower (might stacking runes, 30 points in firearms), I expect it to be competitively significant in terms of damage.
You basically said elixir gun is better than the flamethrower because it does more damage, but elixir gun for the most part is single target.
Wait…what? Explain that one again?
You basically said elixir gun is better than the flamethrower because it does more damage, but elixir gun for the most part is single target.
Wait…what? Explain that one again?
He means hitting more players > hitting one. Thus the weapon should be weaker, which is correct.
He does not take into account that EG is meant to be a low dps, support weapon (it is) and causes weakness (an incredible condition) to compensate. It also has 2 – 3 times the range of the flamethrower autoattack depending on a trait.
So what we end up with is 1/3 of the range and the same dps as a support weapon on a weapon built for high dps, justified by a cone AoE effect.
Up the range and fix the miss bug and we might be able to talk business here, until then, Flamethrower remains a mess and in dire need of some “tweaks”.
You basically said elixir gun is better than the flamethrower because it does more damage, but elixir gun for the most part is single target.
Wait…what? Explain that one again?
He means hitting more players > hitting one. Thus the weapon should be weaker, which is correct.
Hardly considering how many things in this game can hit multipletargets. There are more AoE attacks then pure single-target attacks.
Kill Shot for a traited Warrior pierces, is technically aoe. Still hits like a kitten truck… on steroids… in a bad mood… out to get revenge.
And a lot of AoE attacks are true hardhitters, the list is really quite long. Which, again, is easy when most attacks have the ability to hit multiple targets and do aoe. So, why should flamethrower be crap again? Dealing less damage over 2sec then a Warrior does every 0.5sec cleaving with his GS.
Where AoE truely comes into play is PvE, who cares then? And WvW, and its easy enough to hit multiple enemies in a zerg fight for everyone, and you’ll run into the aoe-cap regardless.
(edited by Terrahero.9358)
I was playing around with the T3 FT buff under firearms where you gain 200 toughness and 15 secs of might every 3 seconds, i found that it capped itself at 20seconds. It wouldn’t go above this number, despite it saying that its supposed to get 15 seconds of might. Is this a glitch? meant for? Am i just not understanding something?
wish the FT would not miss, just like the one the mobs from CoF use.
Two things:
First – I’m fairly confident that vulnerability does effect condition damage. I’ll double check, but I’m pretty sure it does.
Second – I have been using a might stacking FT build for a while in WvW and have yet to lose a 1v1 duel. I’m most certainly not the best duelist so all I can say is the FT is working fantastically for me.
That said, the 2/3 combo obstructed nonsense is fairly annoying and I wish 5 put up a smoke field (but the lowish CD may be the reason it doesn’t and I’m ok with that). I think that if it got the 100% dmg increase it would definitely become overpowered, but that’s just my opinion.
Dr Hoppenheimer – Engi / Meowzir – Guard /
Mulcibur Nox – Ele / Mr Directed – Mes
I was playing around with the T3 FT buff under firearms where you gain 200 toughness and 15 secs of might every 3 seconds, i found that it capped itself at 20seconds. It wouldn’t go above this number, despite it saying that its supposed to get 15 seconds of might. Is this a glitch? meant for? Am i just not understanding something?
Might stacks in intensity only, not duration. So after the first 15 seconds, one of those stacks of might ends, but is promptly replaced by another so the number of stacks stays the same. Three seconds later, this happens again, and again another three seconds after that, ensuring that you never see more than about 5 stacks of might. This assumes that you have nothing that increases the duration a stack of might will last, like the increased boon duration that you get with trait points or runes.
(edited by Gurt.9368)
flameblast sometimes goes into the ground right in front of me jsut like frggin SD. Would love to see that fixed – no fun if a damage kit is so unreliable you can`t even be sure that the skill will even work
ohh and last time i checked vulnerability did not affect condition damage (@ the guy who wondered about this)
(edited by RaynStargaze.6510)
I keep trying to go back to flamethrower, in hopes that I was just ignorant of some obvious build to make it viable, only to find myself disappointed by the unreliable damage and impossibility to hit targets during PvP.
What adds salt to the wound is the fact that my Elixir gun does slightly more damage than the FT. Just auto attackign with the Elixir gun will constantly stack a bleed on my target that just gets worst and worst the longer I shoot, then add in the chem spray to layer even more debuffs…………the FT is just garbage when a debuffing / healing gun is doing greater damage numbers than it!!
Why do you guys compare everything in terms of numbers? You forget that the FT is aoe, has a aoe interupt, and a aoe blind.
are you saying our other kits/weapons don’t?
Pistol. aoe attack, aoe poison, aoe blind, aoe confuse. aoe immobilize/cripple.
Rifle. linear aoe.
single target immobalize. aoe interrupt/kb. can also be traited to aoe blind on crits.
grenade. aoe blind, aoe chill, aoe poison.
bomb. aoe kb, aoe blind, aoe confuse.Nearly all our skills are aoe. Its hard to find one that isn’t.
We also have lots of blinds.You basically said elixir gun is better than the flamethrower because it does more damage, but elixir gun for the most part is single target.
Is it? elixir gun 2. 4 target bouncing.
Elixir gun 3. aoe (ok its terrible and should never be used)
Elixir gun 4. aoe. and very high damage.
Elixir gun 5. aoe heal.
Now, I’ll give you your auto attack is by far your main attack. but 4 out of 5 EG skills are aoe.
I was playing around with the T3 FT buff under firearms where you gain 200 toughness and 15 secs of might every 3 seconds, i found that it capped itself at 20seconds. It wouldn’t go above this number, despite it saying that its supposed to get 15 seconds of might. Is this a glitch? meant for? Am i just not understanding something?
1 stack of might every 3s, 15s duration. gives you 5 stacks of might.
Each stack is independent. the first one drops off, after 15s. If you have any + boon duration, you will see it tick 6, then drop back down to 5 after a bit. IF you have lots of + duration, you can get up to 6/7.
For clarity.
Kit weapon damage:
872-969, 920 average. compare that to your rifle or pistols.
which are 1095, and 969 average respectively.
flame thrower 1
1.5 skill coeff, over 2.5s 10 hits 10 hits over 2.5s is 4 hits/s, not 5.
1 s burn at the end. (burn damage is dealt after the tick, meaning, that burn is applied 3.5s after you start the channel)
FT2 is .75 scaling on the ball, and 1.75 on the blast. 240 aoe. Good. but the main issue is the blast up and vanishing on occasion.
Traits.
+15% damage trait. That is unique to it and EG. 5% to bleeding target.
At 10 hits per 2.5s, that is a good sharpshooter application rate. although it should be noted. grenades are 9 hits per 2.4, pistol is 3,6, or 9 per 2.4 depending on the coated bullets double and triple hitting. rifle is 3 per 2.5. disclosing addition hits such as throw wrench, discharge, etc. (in short, that 10 hits is not nearly as impressive as it sounds)
Juggernaut. unquestionably good. (save it forces you to stay in FT)
1.5 coeff over 2.5s is .6/second.
Compared to rifle 1’s, .65/shot, which is .76/second. .41/s pistol 1. (which yes, is really weak without coated bullets, but becomes .82 with double hits. that is a whole other topic of complaints) Grenades without grenadier, .78/s. 1.16/s with.
Bombs, 1.47/s. Toolkit. .94/.94/1.75. (.85s/.85s/1s attack speed.) EG is .47/s
These are base coeffs, without traits added, save coated bullets and grenadier which greatly change the mechanics.
Most damage modifiers are universal. the 5% to bleeding targets, rifle, pistol, flamethrower, EG all make use of that. so I can drop that from the equation when comparing. However, FT has 15% damage, rifle 10% damage, grenades 10%, eg 15%.
we can then increase that FT by 15%.
FT .69/s. (rifle .836) EG .54/s
EG is the only weapon lower.
Burns and bleeds. 328+(.25*cond) burn, and 42.5+ (.05*cond) bleed
1s burn per 2.5s 40% uptime, and thus 131+(.1*cond) per second
pistol 2s bleed, applied at .85s. 85+(.1*cond)/shot. or 100+*.1176*cond) per second. (ok thats a weird way to put it. )
EG 1 4 or 3s bleed. 127.5+(.15*cond) per shot at 3s, and 170+(.2*cond)per shot at 4s.
Simply put both EG and Pistol apply more cond via bleeds then FT1 does via burn. and that is without coated bullets. both are single target cond however, vs FT1 aoe burn.
That weapon damage issue is a major factor.
at face value, you might be sitting there and saying. hey .69s FT vs .836 rifle isn’t THAT much. whats the big deal. the burn makes up for it!
rifle 1205 max damage, and 1095 average.
.65skill coeff. x 1095weapon x 2500 power/2600 armor= 684/hit x 10% rifle mod 753/hit, 3 hits in 2.4s =2258
FT 969 max, 920 average.
1.5coef x 920 × 2500/2600=1327 over 2.5s. x 15% deadly mix = 1526
thats 48%more average damage on rifle 1. A 400 damage burn doesn’t make up for it.
Then when we add vul, 5% damage, 10% scholar, or 5% rage/str, 5% sigil, crit damage, that static burn falls farther and farther behind.
400 burn stays 400, while that 2258 damage becomes 4000 damage with crit, etc.
And this was all just comparing to other engi weapons.
As others stated, compare to greatsword war, or axe, etc. FT falls WAY behind.
Its possible the burn is bugged. 1 1s burn at the end of 2.5s is kindof terrible.
+duration effectively not working on it, is a real problem. as you need +100% cond duration to get any benefit. FT can’t stack duration on itself, due to that 1s on 2.5s . Other sources of burn can aide with that admittedly. Napalm, rocketboots, incind ammo, 10 in explosives incind powder.
Naplam also with 1 s burns. haha.
Incindary ammo. 60s CD for 3 single target burns. lol. wow so bad.
(edited by Casia.4281)
Is it? elixir gun 2. 4 target bouncing.
Elixir gun 3. aoe (ok its terrible and should never be used)
Elixir gun 4. aoe. and very high damage.
Elixir gun 5. aoe heal.
Now, I’ll give you your auto attack is by far your main attack. but 4 out of 5 EG skills are aoe.
2 never hits – ever
3 is bugged
4 is an aoe field with 5 sec duration – staying in that is like standing still in front of an scepter/dagger ele while he is unloading his burst on you (only difference that ele burst is actually good)
5 lol
Damage aside, in which I agree on the poor state of several kit skills, I would suggest the following:
- FT #2 is now a blast finisher and explodes on impact (OR has a detonate function)
- FT #5 is a smoke field
- EG #4 is now a blast finisher too OR it immobilizes or criples at least.
alternative idea: EG #4 is now a stun breaker
- EG #1 pierces from Juggernaut trait. This would be so strong it makes the FT-EG combo an incredible base for a versatile build.
- EG #2 flies faster, and in a more direct line. Simple as that.
Bug fixes I don’t discuss, they should simply happen first.
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
hoenstly just make this bloody thing work 100% of the time and make lame blast ground targeting – FT would be pretty kittening good
Is it? elixir gun 2. 4 target bouncing.
Elixir gun 3. aoe (ok its terrible and should never be used)
Elixir gun 4. aoe. and very high damage.
Elixir gun 5. aoe heal.
Now, I’ll give you your auto attack is by far your main attack. but 4 out of 5 EG skills are aoe.2 never hits – ever
3 is bugged
4 is an aoe field with 5 sec duration – staying in that is like standing still in front of an scepter/dagger ele while he is unloading his burst on you (only difference that ele burst is actually good)
5 lol
Eg 4 is a 5s duration ticks 6 times. (first is instant.) .85/tick scaling. 5.1 skill coeff, on a target that stayed in it. If you can’t figure out a way to make a target stay in that damage, then thats on you. (seige, downed, nets, etc) In an Eg power build. think 2k per tick. Its a lava font.
The assertion was, that FT is aoe. So is pretty much every weapon we have.
The biggest problem is that engineers actually have too many kits. Because of this our traits fail to work effectively.
FT should be able to be traited to do extra burn damage (+50% burn damage, not duration).
The same for Elixir Gun, though EG needs to be able to cripple enemies who are in an acid pool.
Engineers need gimmick traits to match their gimmick kits. Master or GM traits that actually add characteristics to their kits. Generic traits like bonus crit/bonus damage just don’t do it for Engineers.
Malkin Rawl – Charr Engineer, Tarnished Coast
Loudmouth, lousy PvPer, and mediocre PvEer.
I don’t own, I just play
Loudmouth, lousy PvPer, and mediocre PvEer.
I don’t own, I just play
The biggest problem is that engineers actually have too many kits. Because of this our traits fail to work effectively.
FT should be able to be traited to do extra burn damage (+50% burn damage, not duration).
The same for Elixir Gun, though EG needs to be able to cripple enemies who are in an acid pool.
Engineers need gimmick traits to match their gimmick kits. Master or GM traits that actually add characteristics to their kits. Generic traits like bonus crit/bonus damage just don’t do it for Engineers.
It’s not the volume of kits, it’s the lack of versatile traits.
Kit specific traits need to be condensed abit and some traits reworked to affect more then just one specific kit/ability.
And yeh the generic traits are just really bad sadly.
Mook is correct, and my wording wasn’t as well. I agree that most traits aren’t versatile enough to deal with the multitude of our kits.
Like I said before, there should be master or GM traits that actually give some of our kits different (or added) characteristics. I’ll look through the effects and see what I can come up with for trait characteristics.
Malkin Rawl – Charr Engineer, Tarnished Coast
Loudmouth, lousy PvPer, and mediocre PvEer.
I don’t own, I just play
Loudmouth, lousy PvPer, and mediocre PvEer.
I don’t own, I just play
Eg 4 is a 5s duration ticks 6 times. (first is instant.) .85/tick scaling. 5.1 skill coeff, on a target that stayed in it. If you can’t figure out a way to make a target stay in that damage, then thats on you. (seige, downed, nets, etc) In an Eg power build. think 2k per tick. Its a lava font.
The assertion was, that FT is aoe. So is pretty much every weapon we have.
^true i guess anyway..
Just tried with a maxed direct dmg build.. with 15% more damage trait + 15 stacks might i get almost 1K non crit and almost 2K crit pretty kittening mediocre (tested on medium robot thingy)
^in the end its just not worth wasting utility slots + traits for 1 mediocre damage ability and 1/2 condi rmvls (you know like.. other classes actually have damage abilities on their weapons which they can swap as they feel like.. and actually have utility slots for — you know utility)
(edited by RaynStargaze.6510)