Guild Wars 2

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Search_and_Rescue!%22
Taking our elite mechanic, adding a teleport on top and adding it to a base ranger shout
Who came up with this?

Just another way to say to us: engineer doesn’t deserve an interesting elite spec mechanic at all.

Search and rescue used to work similarly, just without the teleport, it was just pretty useless considering you need to either waste a trait or a utility for it.

We, as a Scrapper, get a long range revive by default which also doubles as a safe stomp on enemies. I don’t see the problem here, ours does more without wasting slots and traits.

You do realize that wasting a utility and wasting an elite mechanic are different
escpecially when the utility version is better
yes our gyro can stomp but look at other elite mechanics and tell me if any trait or utility does (almost) the same

darthnius.3496:

You do realize that wasting a utility and wasting an elite mechanic are different
escpecially when the utility version is better
yes our gyro can stomp but look at other elite mechanics and tell me if any trait or utility does (almost) the same

Define “does the same”, another class/elite that revives or stomps using a trait or utility?

Search and Rescue does one half of the gyro and is better at doing it

darthnius.3496:

Search and Rescue does one half of the gyro and is better at doing it

Of course it does better, you have to waste a slot to use it and you pet has to be alive in order for it to help revive. Whereas the Gyro is there by default and does more than just revive, and is on a much lower cooldown, which is arguably much better.

Just to note, I don’t feel like the Function Gyro is a waste of an Elite Spec, it adds some nice additions to fights, especially in WvW and PvP.

I love being able to stomp 2 people at once, or revive 2 people at once without having to slot in Elixir R when we have so many more useful utilities.

Some of the Berzerkers F1 alt attacks are pretty useless compared to their original attacks but does that mean it’s useless as an Elite Spec? No, it has other uses and many people enjoy it.

Don’t like the Scrappers ability? Wait for the next Elite Spec to release, they’re not there to magically suit everyones needs or desires.

Cross profession comparisons are generally not the best, especially when everything is in context of the whole kit.

Sure, Function Gyro is no Celestial Avatar, as a class mechanic, or Search and Rescue utility, but Scrapper clearly does okay.

Try to understand, F-Gyro is a very very weird and thematically weak Elite spec mechanic, especially because it’s not even unique or defining at what it does.

In the case that Scrapper’s ability kit gets nerfed hard, this Elite class mechanic should really be high priority to be reworked to be a role defining ability.

People are just rightfully salty in the Scrapper class mechanic is captured and exceeded elsewhere. Balance aside

I get it.

Psizone is saying that NOT ONLY “Search and Rescue” does a better job than F-Gyro, it
is ALSO optional. You aren’t forced to take “Search and Rescue” when you play PVE, for example, or if you don’t expect your allies to fail and die often. And it is not fixed in your build when you choose to play Druid. Nice.

I see, I see! I would love the F-Gyro to be that way.

Ranger pets are much harder to kill and there death is not costly at all. Gyro are simply throwaway pets who do one thing and then go away. The function gyro simply needs higher def or means of staying alive to do its rez / spike.

Kind of an added note not comply part of the rez / spike effect of function gyro but more related to all gyro is to add the knock back effect that you get from explosion line to gryo’s dead/self-destructed. If the gyro trying to rez some one and it dies it will at lest push everyone back if the gyro is trying to spike but dies it at least knocks back the person who is down making it harder for them to be rez. It will make the function gyro a type of land mind that can have an effect but as a last trick it will knock ppl back.

Ardid.7203:

And it is not fixed in your build when you choose to play Druid. Nice.

I see, I see! I would love the F-Gyro to be that way.

But the same could be said for other Elite specs. For example, I run Druid on my Rangers but only for the traits, I practically never use Celestial Form other than as a condi cleanse.

The Elite specs are meant as an optional choice for the class, it doesn’t mean it has to do something better than other classes and for me, the Function Gyro works great.

Not every Elite spec is ideal or beneficial for every game mode or situation, Scrapper isn’t always going to be better than running Engineer traits instead. Like I said earlier, wait for the next Elite spec to release if you want something more useful for standard PvE.

Jski.6180:

Kind of an added note not comply part of the rez / spike effect of function gyro but more related to all gyro is to add the knock back effect that you get from explosion line to gryo’s dead/self-destructed. If the gyro trying to rez some one and it dies it will at lest push everyone back if the gyro is trying to spike but dies it at least knocks back the person who is down making it harder for them to be rez. It will make the function gyro a type of land mind that can have an effect but as a last trick it will knock ppl back.

Isn’t that what the trait Final Salvo does? I haven’t used it since it competes with Adaptive Armor. Perhaps making that baseline for the Function Gryo would be a good compromise.

psizone.8437:

Isn’t that what the trait Final Salvo does? I haven’t used it since it competes with Adaptive Armor. Perhaps making that baseline for the Function Gryo would be a good compromise.

Final salvo AoE daze, give you a couple of secs of superspeed and 5s or so of stab per pop. It doesnt knockback anything. Final salvo doesnt really compete with adaptive armor IMO, its just two aspects on how you choose to play the scrapper.

In regards to the function gyro, IMO all it really need is 1 stack of stability on activation.

Dawdler.8521:

In regards to the function gyro, IMO all it really need is 1 stack of stability on activation.

It used to, at least when traited, it was one of the things they changed with the kitten balance patch they released recently.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stabilization_Core

Dawdler.8521:

psizone.8437:

Isn’t that what the trait Final Salvo does? I haven’t used it since it competes with Adaptive Armor. Perhaps making that baseline for the Function Gryo would be a good compromise.

Final salvo AoE daze, give you a couple of secs of superspeed and 5s or so of stab per pop. It doesnt knockback anything. Final salvo doesnt really compete with adaptive armor IMO, its just two aspects on how you choose to play the scrapper.

In regards to the function gyro, IMO all it really need is 1 stack of stability on activation.

The daze is build in i am talking about added higher dmg and an knock back ontop of that when you go down the explosion line. Kind of make self-destruct or the gyro death an explosion and it gets all the benefits of being an explosion.

Jski.6180:

Dawdler.8521:

psizone.8437:

Isn’t that what the trait Final Salvo does? I haven’t used it since it competes with Adaptive Armor. Perhaps making that baseline for the Function Gryo would be a good compromise.

Final salvo AoE daze, give you a couple of secs of superspeed and 5s or so of stab per pop. It doesnt knockback anything. Final salvo doesnt really compete with adaptive armor IMO, its just two aspects on how you choose to play the scrapper.

In regards to the function gyro, IMO all it really need is 1 stack of stability on activation.

The daze is build in i am talking about added higher dmg and an knock back ontop of that when you go down the explosion line. Kind of make self-destruct or the gyro death an explosion and it gets all the benefits of being an explosion.

Why? Its clearly not an explosion. Its a static field.

Gyros already have a ton of damage and good CC and stability. Giving them knockback and explosion traits would make them OP as all kitten.

Also, I know that the stabilization core gave the function gyro 2 stabs prepatch. Final salvo post-patch should give it 1 stab – its using a gyro. Its bugged.

Dawdler.8521:

Why? Its clearly not an explosion. Its a static field.

Gyros already have a ton of damage and good CC and stability. Giving them knockback and explosion traits would make them OP as all kitten.

Also, I know that the stabilization core gave the function gyro 2 stabs prepatch. Final salvo post-patch should give it 1 stab – its using a gyro. Its bugged.

I agree that the knockback is too much and unnecessary because gyros already daze per default. But I always thought gyro destruction should count as an explosion for traits. Would give the explosion more damage and vulnerability. Why should this be OP? And they create a static field after the explosion, but the animation is still an explosion so why not?

And where did you come up with “gyros have a ton of damage”? The only damage they provide is the destruction and this doesn’t scale with our power, so why not give engineer the chance to at least improve this damage by 10%?

Lets go through the pros and cons of both Search and Rescue and Function Gyro.

Search and Rescue

Pros:

- 1200 range teleport of a random ally away from danger
- Fairly short CD for it’s strength
- Provides regen and swiftness (when traited) to nearby allies, which contributes to Astral Force gain

Cons:

- Reduces pressure on enemies due to pet reviving instead of damaging
- Cannot stomp, let alone at range
- Almost totally useless with the actual Ranger’s res trait
- Cannot be traited to provide stability to the ranger and the pet

Function Gyro

Pros:

- Can stomp at range
- Can res at range
- Extremely short CD (or does it even have a CD?)
- Can be traited to provide stability to the Scrapper and the Gyro

Cons:

- Does not teleport downed ally or enemy
- Resses and stomps slower than players

As you can see, Search and Rescue is far better at the ressing job, but that’s all it does. It cannot stomp. It does not give stability, making the Ranger vulnerable and easy to interrupt. It’s more like Function Gyro 0.75 because it specializes in half the job.

F-Gyro has a CD of 20s, with 10 secs of acivity each time, according to wiki info.

Which is the range of the Function Gyro?
Can the ranger select a different skill when needed without having to re-spec a whole line?
Have the Ranger to manually select which ally to revive?
Can the Function Gyro stomp anything in PvE?
Was the “Search and Rescue” skill ever promoted as a “gamechanging mechanic”?
Does the “Search and Rescue” skill has any role in the labor of adding visual impact and identity to the Druid?

The problem is the F-Gyro is like a “Search and Rescue 1.2” . When it should be a whole spec mechanic.

I’m in game on my Scrapper and see the 20 second CD now. Good to know about it.

FG range is 900.

So you lose FG when you don’t spec for Scrapper. But it also doesn’t take up a utility slot. Both FG and S&R have tradeoffs.

The Ranger cannot select who to res. It’s completely random, though if only one ally is down, that’s the ally who will be teleported.

It can stomp those mobs in Kessex Hills around that poison factory thingy, or whatever that is. :P Also, it can res in PvE.

Nothing that was changed with the last patch was promoted as a “Game Changing Mechanic” as far as I know. FG can be a game changer, as can many other abilities when used carefully, including S&R.

Not sure what you mean that “visual impact” but it does help give the Druid the identity of a highly valuable reviver and healer in both PvP and PvE.

It is a spec mechanic. You only get it as Scrapper, along with other gyros and powerful traits that help define the spec.

“Search and Rescue” is not Druid depending. Any ranger can use it. I don’t think a Druid would really need it. And it is ok, because its function is not the same as an Elite Spec Mechanic.

Elite Specs WERE promoted as new ways to play every proffession, and there WAS and emphasis on the Spec Mechanics as fundamental to that, because they (and traitlines) are the only non optional aspects of each Elite Spec.

When I talk about visual and identity, I talk about things that say to you “Oh, that is clearly a -introduce elite spec name here -”. For most Elite Specs, is their special mechanic (As it was suposed to be). For Scrappers, is the Hammer. If you don’t take a Hammer, nobody thinks of you as a Scrapper, and in fact, your gameplay will be just the same as a normal Engie… Because the scrapper mechanic in not doing it’s work properly.

I think you an me see the Elite Mechanics in totally different ways. I see them as things that should completelly change how I play my character second to second, no mater what weapon I choose or wich mode I am (And IMO, most of they actually DO that). You seems to see them as incidental aids that are good only because they don’t use skill slots.

And of course we can stomp a few Nightmare guys in a few very specific locations. That will make the F-Gyro so extremely useful in PvE.

Elite specs are incidental aids, but they aren’t good just because they don’t take up skill slots. That’s just one reason why FG is good. And yes, they should change how you play, but they don’t to the extent that we may have expected. They end up just adding something extra instead of changing what you already have. We all know that Anet failed on elite specs by just making them way too powerful, and now they want to buff the base specs instead of nerfing elite specs and changing their mechanics around a bit. It might be why they made S&R so powerful.

And I already said this: FG can help revive in PvE. You make it sound totally useless in PvE. And who cares if it was useless? It’s there and it doesn’t take up a slot!

What I want to know is what point you are trying to make. Mine is that FG is good, and S&R is good. One does two things, and the other does one of those things better.

Mine is FG is the weakest of the Elite Specs Mechanics, so bad designed even an optional skill can be compared to it.

If you DONT see Elite Spec Mechanics as something that should be really noticeable and highly relevant, my point is moot.

Keep in mind you can double rez ppl with function gyro and the scrap it self. Just a though on a build of having a scraper as a combat rezer for a group. With all of its gyro on 0 cast time and most of its tool belt skills too making them all usable during rez.