Guild Wars 2

It used to be the case that gadgets were generally accepted as underwhelming and the traits for them were too few, far between and poor. People used to complain and try to make gadget builds, hoping that they would be buffed.

Since the remake, none of the traits have been made baseline but either scrapped or consolidated into a nasty useless trait that no one asked for. The new version of gadgeteer.

So what’s happened since then, have we just given up or am I missing something and this trait isn’t actually as awful as I think it is?

Is 25% cooldown on one skill at a time so long as you get hit 5 times first, somehow an improvement on a the previous global 25% reduction? I don’t understnad why there’s no apparent noise over what I consider to be an appalling step backwards for gadgets.

Have anet finally killed people’s desires for a viable gadget build?

we were praying for improvements the past 3 years.
A-nets answer: make it worse.
After they’ve not just not implemented a proper gadgeteer trait, but took away the 20% cd reduction one as well, Most of us can’t be asked to bother anymore.
For some reason A-net either doesn’t like gadgets or simply has no clue what to do with them (& for some reason ignores all the good ideas this subforum usually spawns), so they made them even less viable as before.

So the answer is yes: I, and most of the others simply have given up on that topic. And if Forge doesn’t turn out to be amazing, I’ll probably give up on engineer all together.
Currently there are 2 utility-types that are viable: Kits & elixirs. And while they in itself are fun to play, the lack of build-variety kills the fun in the class for me.
Daredevil looks like fun & so does Revenant…

My best guess is that ANet balanced Gadgeteer around PvP, where you’re bound to get hit many times in each battle (unless bursted down). I haven’t fiddled around with the trait, but Gadgeteer doesn’t state any internal cooldown so I assume you could get an overcharge, use the buffed Gadget, get another overcharge, use the buffed Gadget, etc.

Perhaps they tried the old version with 50% CD reduction and found, say Clerics P/S Gadget build be too good at bunkering with a potential ~12k+ heal using A.E.D. every ~20 seconds (or less, I think A.E.D. enters CD as soon as its cast, not when it heals?) so they changed the CD%.

Keep in mind with -50%CD, PBR would be 600 launch (~2s stun) every 12.5s, Mine would be knockback + boon removal every 9s, knockdown field every 22.5s. Yes, chances are you’d be dead if you could use all your Gadgets overcharged, but I like to think ANet thinks and tests things through before changing them.

IgnisVulpesXI.3015:

My best guess is that ANet balanced Gadgeteer around PvP, where you’re bound to get hit many times in each battle (unless bursted down). I haven’t fiddled around with the trait, but Gadgeteer doesn’t state any internal cooldown so I assume you could get an overcharge, use the buffed Gadget, get another overcharge, use the buffed Gadget, etc.

Perhaps they tried the old version with 50% CD reduction and found, say Clerics P/S Gadget build be too good at bunkering with a potential ~12k+ heal using A.E.D. every ~20 seconds (or less, I think A.E.D. enters CD as soon as its cast, not when it heals?) so they changed the CD%.

Keep in mind with -50%CD, PBR would be 600 launch (~2s stun) every 12.5s, Mine would be knockback + boon removal every 9s, knockdown field every 22.5s. Yes, chances are you’d be dead if you could use all your Gadgets overcharged, but I like to think ANet thinks and tests things through before changing them.

It’s funny, I can’t help but think the precise opposite. I look at necro and ranger nerfs, the nerfs to reaper before even the first BWe, LS Story which is bugged to hell and totally ignores the existence of ranger pets and norns, leading to damaged, even broken events. I think of the change to traits so they became collectibles. Heck, even the chill nerf, which they completely failed to realise would affect the Reaper, the class whose combat abilities relied entirely upon chill’s previously effective role of reducing movement. An oversight of epic proportions. They then made it worse by giving every single class almost total immunity to chill, through various means.

It seems to me that if anet does any testing at all, it’s the absolute bare minimum they have to. From what I’ve seen, and this includes the new gadgeteer, Anet looks at how things seem on paper and someone says, “hey, under some potential circumstances I haven’t tried that could potentially, possibly happen in game maybe, this trait could possibly be powerful but I haven’t tested it, so I don’t know. Better nerf the heck out of it just incase”.

It is not the worst trait we have, but its up there. I used to trait the old gadgeteer, the new one sadly doesn’t work on any decent builds. Keep it as it, but add back the boon on use for each gadget. It would be semi-viable then.

The sad thing about gadgeteer is that it basically punishes you for having multiple gadgets on your toolbar and kills any gadgets having synergy with each other.

The trait is good for one thing, and one thing only: Tanky PvP builds that use overcharged slick shoes to land a burst.

It might work well if AED if anyone actually used it.

You know, I’m starting to think they may as well not even bother with non-kit engineer utility skills. Just give us a turret kit, a gadget kit, and elixer kit and be done with it.

I mean, I can totally understand why there are no reasonable gadgeteer traits possible, since gadgets in itself are badly designed utility-category.
Some are ground-targeting based, some require a selected target to work, some require no target at all, one acts as leap, others only cc & do no dmg & one even is a skill that clearly belongs to explosives. Some have casting-animations, others are insta-casts.

If you ask me, we’ll never see proper traits implemented for gadgets, because there is not much room to cover all of them at the same time beyond cd-reductions & boons on use.

The fix I imagine would be to decide on a fixed, common mechanic & continue from there to re-design all of them.

Since utility-goggles, rocketboots & slick-shoes have some decent synergy with each other, while also functioning roughly the same (insta-cast / require no target), I’d prefer personal battering ram & throw mine to be deleted and replaced with 2 new utility-skills.

- Personal shield device:
Creates a mobile, projectile-absorbing bubble for 4 seconds. Knockbacks up to 5 enemies upon creation, but can be entered freely afterwards. Pulses 2sec Protection every second inside it. 240 range around the player. Insta-cast. 30sec cd.
TB: Energy shock
Creates a local shock-wave that damages & dazes 5 targets for 1sec. 240 range around the player. Insta-cast. 15sec cd

- Automated mine dispenser:
Releases 1 mine under the player per second for the next 5 seconds. They behave like the mines from bunker down, but additionally daze for 1 sec & rip boons from up to 5 targets. Insta-cast. 20sec cd
TB: Minefield
Stays as is.

Since all skills now are insta-casts & cause a effect with a duration, traits not only can include cd-reduction & effects on activation (condi-clears, boons, a.s.o.), but actually manipulate the duration of the triggered effects. In case of rocket boots they’d simply give them increased jump-range.
Just by following a rudimentary basic concept, manipulation of said concept via traits becomes very easy. Please A-net, if you can’t figure out what to do with the current gadgets, rework those who don’t fit into the picture of this utility-type & start redesigning the gadgeteer trait from that foundation on.

I think the gadgets are well designed for the most part. I absolutely love Slick Shoes and Rocket boots. I just feel SS has entirely too long of a cool down, and there are no traits that bring their value in line with other kits traited. I mean EG can be traited to stack more might and convert all conditions to boons. Gadgets would need to be very good with traits to compete with that. Yet instead of adding to gadget traits, the detracted them.

dancingmonkey.4902:

I think the gadgets are well designed for the most part. I absolutely love Slick Shoes and Rocket boots. I just feel SS has entirely too long of a cool down, and there are no traits that bring their value in line with other kits traited. I mean EG can be traited to stack more might and convert all conditions to boons. Gadgets would need to be very good with traits to compete with that. Yet instead of adding to gadget traits, the detracted them.

I tend to agree, I love rocket boots and throw mine, but they simply underperform thanks to a lack of traiting, though thanks to Explosives, TM doesn’t feel it half as bad. A thought occurs to me. Could the removal of traits be akin to the thief acrobatics nerf? ie they’ve taken gadget traits so they can stick them into Forge?

I’ve given up. Anet hates gadgets only slightly less then turrets!

Gadgeteer is worse then it used to be! The cooldowns should be baseline to the trait and the overcharged effects should be procced for ‘X’ seconds after using the utilities F# skill.

There could at least be 1 other minor or major trait that effects them in some way…

so I launch battering ram, for ‘X’ seconds after this, using PBR will recieve a boosted launch distance etc.

I love gadgets and never go anywhere without my rocket boots.

in a vacuum gadgets are great but compared to anything else after trait are applied… sadface!

Thieves, mesmers, and rangers can mass exploit stealth, but when an engineer can knock down the same player twice with slick shoes, the community goes bananas and demands it is the most OP aspect to ever exist. Sometimes it is hard to wrap your head around.

I gave up a year ago.

Even if they buff and rework gadgets who will give up kits or elixirs for them. You can’t take more than one gadget without sacrificing dmg or sustainability, which makes gadget traits worthless.

the idea should be not to give up with kit or elixir but to mix for having more alternatives

A lockdown engineer with gadgets can be quite strong. Definitely not what people expect but it was strong none-the-less. I used it a couple times in queues and some people were surprised to see a full gadget engineer.

AED, Slick Shoes, Battering Ram, Throw Mine. You have a lot of burst damage (especially minefield, that hits really, really hard if you land a lot of them on a single person), tons of boon removal, a launch(rifle) knockback daze stun knockdown. Because of the gadgeteer trait, AED lasts for 8 seconds before it goes off and you get screwed.

Other than that, not much it offers. Gadgets are definitely not something you take in a full build, they are more like skills that complement your setup. Kits are strong because they are basically unique weapons. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if we got new kits in later specializations which is fine because they are basically new, unique weapons only engineers can get.

i use it in my SD build, but thats only because the other grandmasters are also fairly lackluster, imho it was better when it granted boons.

Compared to kits, gadgets make you feel like a one trick pony, and a bad one at that. It’s very hard to get the power of a gadget to rival a kit with 5 skills.

Gadget master trait is just plain wrong the cooldown reduction should be base line Adrenal inplant it just way better and some gadgets need buff,fix.. for example

Throw mine = double its damage and make it remove 2-3 boons 1200 throw range , make it so u can recover it
Mine field = reduce it cast to 1/2 and fix their placement be organize not scattered all over, each mine 240 range why 180 really ?

Only place where I found it usefull is on chestfarm with rocket boots.