Guild Wars 2

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not posting this to troll. I’m rather new to engineer and I would like to know wheter it is possible to make a viable (power) build without using either Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit.

Specifically I’m looking for a build for my Asuran engineer that has an magitech feel. Does anyone have any tips for such a build?

HGH rifle? Or SD?

What do you want to use the build for? If you’re looking for something in particular, it might help with some suggestions.

The short answer to your question is that you can build viable power builds without either of those kits.

Here’s a fairly typical static discharge (SD) burst build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQFAUlsTptrlcxmKseNSM6Bp78mB9wu51vfKQXA-z0xAYrgQUCCRAM5VEN2ibR0Y11YKXioaSBExYA-w

The way to use this build is to try and CC your opponent with something like overcharged shot or net shot, and then use your toolbelt skills to unleash a lot of damage on the opponent through static discharge, as well as comboing into your high damage rifle skills. You can stack a nice bit of vulnerability with this, so it helps boost your damage quite a bit.

This one is a glass canon, so it can die quickly. I’d say it probably takes a bit more skill than your average build because you can’t take a lot of punishment and have to be very particular about when to use some skills so that you don’t waste things. It’s very much a kill or be killed scenario. Some people like putting the 10 from explosives into alchemy or inventions for a different trait, but I found the accelerant packed turrets to be useful as a “get off me” CC.

It can work well in general PvE since it can completely melt mobs, although it might be a bit harder running it in some more difficult PvE content.

I guess it kind of has a magitech feel since it shoots out a bunch of lightning when using the toolbelt skills.

A video of someone using a very similar build is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl6z-RjPUGg

EDIT: This is another build that Silinsar posted that also uses static discharge: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqicnpyuF1LJyoHkmotZhUIh3HoC51nC0FA-TkAg0CnISSlkLJTSyksJNCB

Some videos are in his post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/WvW-Sil-s-Roaming-and-Duel-Video-s/first#post3741371

I’m not sure what “magitech” feel means, but this sounds like a similar question to a similar thread I just posted in:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Engi-from-Mesmer/first#post3754602

I don’t mean to redirect you all over the place I just don’t want to spam the same message.

This is what I do for WvW roaming and small groups. The same build works in PvE with gear changes as well. I’ve found it extremely effective and fun!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcEQFAUlUUpWrtbxkLseNiEShEefgeUX+1IKSh+1YA-z0yAofASEQ2bRrJwAWBLiGreBTXmUtLk6FQFD7OUWDAgAczbGAc0je0AA-w

of course you can run a build without grenade or bomb kit. but to answer your question no you won’t be viable at all.

ellesee.8297:

of course you can run a build without grenade or bomb kit. but to answer your question no you won’t be viable at all.

The thing is, if a build without grenades or bombs isn’t viable, why do engineers who run them see success? It’s that kind of opinion that stifles build innovation. I can think of 3 engies off the top of my head who are well respected and do very well without using either of those kits.

Lets assist each other instead of bashing those who want to try something.

Viable != optimal. Currently, in PvE, bombs/grenades are optimal. Don’t expect to come close to the same sustained damage output without them. PvP and WvW are different beasts, however, and a properly played rifle/static discharge burst build can be very effective.

Sorta. you can do power flamethrower. but power grenade IS the best.

a high level, successful, offensive build without running one or both of these kits in this current meta does not exist. anybody can stomp bads or uplevels in wvwvw with a wacky build. let’s face it, the majority of people you encounter when roaming in wvwvw or hotjoins are not that great. beating them is not success or at least i don’t see it that way. maybe we have different definitions of success.

and i think i actually am assisting. it’s why i’m posting on these forums. i’m all for build diversity and it already exists. for example when running the standard condi build, you can swap out bomb kit for tool kit, or you can swap out nightmare runes for adventurer. but to not run bomb or grenade kit in an offensive build… sorry it’s not going to work against anyone even remotely competent. blame the game mechanics, not me.

there are other ways to play engy, just not other POWER ways to play.

You can go for a SD build however a fire field / finishers are pretty much a must have for engis. Otherwise you’ll be extremly useless. HGH is overrated. The might you get isn’t higher than the might you simply could spread with a few combos. Also for the whole team. You will be weaker – definitly – but still viable i guess.

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I’ll have to take some time to read through all the builds, but it’s helpful nonetheless.

Adamantium.3682:

I’m not sure what “magitech” feel means

In a fantasy setting you generally have 2 technology styles: steampunk(clockwork, blackpowder and steampower a.k.a. Charr) and magitech (semi-magic, usually lightning or energy based a.k.a. Asura). Lookswise, the GW2 engineer is mostly based around the steampunk style. However, some stuff like the Elixir Gun or that Static Discharge build (without the turret) that Yamsandjams mentioned, looks like more magitech, Asura style technology. I’m looking for a themebuild basically, but still one that’s playable.

Xyonon.3987:

You can go for a SD build however a fire field / finishers are pretty much a must have for engis. Otherwise you’ll be extremly useless. HGH is overrated. The might you get isn’t higher than the might you simply could spread with a few combos. Also for the whole team. You will be weaker – definitly – but still viable i guess.

i dont run a fire field and i dont feel very useless
i dont feel optimal in pve but thats cuz i cant be bothered to switch my defensive traits to modified ammo

insanemaniac.2456:

Xyonon.3987:

You can go for a SD build however a fire field / finishers are pretty much a must have for engis. Otherwise you’ll be extremly useless. HGH is overrated. The might you get isn’t higher than the might you simply could spread with a few combos. Also for the whole team. You will be weaker – definitly – but still viable i guess.

i dont run a fire field and i dont feel very useless
i dont feel optimal in pve but thats cuz i cant be bothered to switch my defensive traits to modified ammo

Xyonon.3987:

You will be weaker – definitly – but still viable i guess.

Xyonon.3987:

insanemaniac.2456:

Xyonon.3987:

You can go for a SD build however a fire field / finishers are pretty much a must have for engis. Otherwise you’ll be extremly useless. HGH is overrated. The might you get isn’t higher than the might you simply could spread with a few combos. Also for the whole team. You will be weaker – definitly – but still viable i guess.

i dont run a fire field and i dont feel very useless
i dont feel optimal in pve but thats cuz i cant be bothered to switch my defensive traits to modified ammo

Xyonon.3987:

You will be weaker – definitly – but still viable i guess.

ya i dont feel weaker
in a dungeon, i can blast someone elses fire. its not like i dont pay attention…
in open world, i can burst trash to 0 without might
in a champ train nothing matters
in wvw i dont need the might to solo anything and id rather blast water against people anyways

use turrets and firefields (I think it was napalm) for might stacks and just hit away, could also use the wrench

ellesee.8297:

of course you can run a build without grenade or bomb kit. but to answer your question no you won’t be viable at all.

This is horrible advice, and very far from the truth. OP, I advise avoiding any engineer advice that has “viable” and “meta” in the same sentence. ellesee, your welcome to you opinion and all, but there are too many thousands of videos of players being successful without bombs or grenades, and I will take thousands of video evidence over any one players opinion any day.

welp like i said i could use some triple gadget rifle SD build, then stream and highlight me wrecking the uplevels and the baddies that are so prevalent in wvw and hotjoins. but to beat people in solo or team queues at my rank without bombs/grenades or to beat that really good roamer that you find once in a while in wvw, lol not a chance. i’d have to roll a bunker for tpvp and even then engi bunkers are subpar because of their lack of stability. and i’d just outright lose in wvwvw. i wouldn’t trust any gameplay footage unless it’s an entire recording. obviously they just highlight their good plays and leave out the many times they drop.

insanemaniac.2456:

Xyonon.3987:

insanemaniac.2456:

Xyonon.3987:

You can go for a SD build however a fire field / finishers are pretty much a must have for engis. Otherwise you’ll be extremly useless. HGH is overrated. The might you get isn’t higher than the might you simply could spread with a few combos. Also for the whole team. You will be weaker – definitly – but still viable i guess.

i dont run a fire field and i dont feel very useless
i dont feel optimal in pve but thats cuz i cant be bothered to switch my defensive traits to modified ammo

Xyonon.3987:

You will be weaker – definitly – but still viable i guess.

ya i dont feel weaker
in a dungeon, i can blast someone elses fire. its not like i dont pay attention…
in open world, i can burst trash to 0 without might
in a champ train nothing matters
in wvw i dont need the might to solo anything and id rather blast water against people anyways

• You can, if there is another fire field. I just keep up the 12 stacks for everyone by myself. I hope they pay attention aswell if there is a fire field
• In open world, I can burst trash too, like it would matter … however open world is * more trash = aoe wins. ya know
• champ train … heh
• wvw is a total different story and is not comparable

Again. I don’t say you are useless, but you are definitly weaker and less useful for your team.

ellesee.8297:

welp like i said i could use some triple gadget rifle SD build, then stream and highlight me wrecking the uplevels and the baddies that are so prevalent in wvw and hotjoins. but to beat people in solo or team queues at my rank without bombs/grenades or to beat that really good roamer that you find once in a while in wvw, lol not a chance. i’d have to roll a bunker for tpvp and even then engi bunkers are subpar because of their lack of stability. and i’d just outright lose in wvwvw. i wouldn’t trust any gameplay footage unless it’s an entire recording. obviously they just highlight their good plays and leave out the many times they drop.

No bombs/grenades here and looks like no scrub he is fighting.

You have yet to put forward any evidence other then “because I said so”. We offer you video evidence and you scoff at it with lame excuses and straw man theories.

Besides, you go on to say “at my level” as some sideways justification. We are not speaking in strictly sPvP terms. As well, I do not know what level your at, but I am willing to bet I can provide you videos of players who are well above your level using builds successful without bombs/nades.

coglin.1867:

No bombs/grenades here and looks like no scrub he is fighting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubn_Dnq9irE

You have yet to put forward any evidence other then “because I said so”. We offer you video evidence and you scoff at it with lame excuses and straw man theories.

Besides, you go on to say “at my level” as some sideways justification. We are not speaking in strictly sPvP terms. As well, I do not know what level your at, but I am willing to bet I can provide you videos of players who are well above your level using builds successful without bombs/nades.

Really feeling honored to find out a video used in such an argument is one of my own ones

ellesee.8297:

welp like i said i could use some triple gadget rifle SD build, then stream and highlight me wrecking the uplevels and the baddies that are so prevalent in wvw and hotjoins. but to beat people in solo or team queues at my rank without bombs/grenades or to beat that really good roamer that you find once in a while in wvw, lol not a chance. i’d have to roll a bunker for tpvp and even then engi bunkers are subpar because of their lack of stability. and i’d just outright lose in wvwvw. i wouldn’t trust any gameplay footage unless it’s an entire recording. obviously they just highlight their good plays and leave out the many times they drop.

Basically, yes. You can make nearly any build look good. I don’t know how much experience you have, but when you’ve played a lot you usually you can judge pretty fast if an opponent has an idea of how to play the game or not and also who’s at an advantage because of build etc.

On WvW roaming:
It’s funny that you say you can’t kill a good roamer without nades/bombs. I found those to lack effiency especially against players who are agile, fast to react and know how to properly position themselves. Imo nades/bombs are good for killing/kiting “clumsy” melee specs (even in 1vsX) as those suffer from predictable movement patterns since they have to chase you to get you down. However, things get difficult when you have thieves, mesmers and to a lesser extent even eles porting/jumping around, kiting you or wars with semi-slow immunity, cond/dmg immunities and a lot of cc in melee range or anything with high ranged attacks that dodges pull.
Against skilled players with a build that incorporates a ranged option using bombs not for stealth or might combos is often a waste of time. As well as grenades at high range, since enemies will avoid them by sidestepping or jump/port while there’s a barrage in the air.
I used grenades a lot in the past (nearly a year I think) and they do very well as long your foe moves predictable and has little mobility options. So either lesser experienced players or certain builds. They keep up pressure superior to my current build in case the enemy eats a lot of nades. However, the better your enemies are the lesser nades and/or bombs will hit. In my most engaging fight everything boils down to reacting well and fast plus having a flawless timing. Bombs and nades (at range) suffer from a “delay” that good players will abuse to a frustrating degree. You’ll just have a bad time abusing the little timeframes a good player gives you to land an attack when your attacks only hit after 1sec.
For reference you might want to have a look at me fighting Wolfineer (which is probably considered to be a decent player by many):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-WaPRck9EA
(Telling from memory) He was mentioning that nades aren’t very efficient vs. me. And imo my spec is not even one of those with great combat mobility. Of course you’ll occasionally hit and barrage is a strong spike skill, but the question is if that’s worth all the trait points and the utility slot.

sPvP is a totally different story. Here you’ve got a game mode that by design forces people to get into specific, often small areas. Explosives benefit a lot from that. Capture points bind your foes to the area you assault, the alternative being leaving (-> loosing) the point. Points are like heaven for all the area damage/denial tools engis have (see decap engi). Also, sPvP maps lack the big open spaces WvW maps have so there’s less room which isn’t affected by your explosions

tl;dr:
imho

• Clumsy enemy/enemies with predictable movement patterns (mostly melees and/or lesser experienced players): explosives good due to great pressure.
• Ranged opponent(s), high mobility builds, players with good positioning: explosives not so good due to low hit rate.

i accept that challenge coglin. find me a video of a successful non bunker engineer player in a high level tournament that doesn’t use grenades or bombs. there’s a 5v5 tournament today. let’s count how many offensive engis will choose not to run grenades or bombs.

as for wvwvw silinsar, obviously you don’t use grenades at range. even though it has 1500 range it’s best as a short range kit. when you talk about a condi build you pistol auto at longer ranges because it’s hard to stafe dodge, does decent damage in comparison to the other person because you should be pretty tanky, and procs incendiary powder and up to 8-10 bleeds with 70% condi duration and sharpshooter. as for your build, i am sure that even though it’s good in 1v1s because rifle and toolkit combo is awesome (even though you lost the first one to a dd ele… lol, and the fact that you probably could’ve bursted him down completely with magnet > prybar > overcharged shot > throw wrench > net shot > grenade barrage > blunderbuss), i’d wager you’d be outmatched in any 1v2 or higher and with no methods of escape.. well good luck out there.

tl;dr:
imho
•Clumsy enemy/enemies with predictable movement patterns (mostly melees and/or lesser experienced players): explosives good due to great pressure.
•Ranged opponent(s), high mobility builds, players with good positioning: explosives not so good due to low hit rate.

tbh sil, in like a year of wandering wvw… i could count on 1 hand the number of times i needed to actively decide to stop using grenades because my opponent was avoiding them. maybe thats just me.

insanemaniac.2456:

tl;dr:
imho
•Clumsy enemy/enemies with predictable movement patterns (mostly melees and/or lesser experienced players): explosives good due to great pressure.
•Ranged opponent(s), high mobility builds, players with good positioning: explosives not so good due to low hit rate.

tbh sil, in like a year of wandering wvw… i could count on 1 hand the number of times i needed to actively decide to stop using grenades because my opponent was avoiding them. maybe thats just me.

It largely depends on what sort of spec you’re going up against. I personally find grenades better against opponents who will generally chase you and try to get in close, whereas those that often try to play from range or kite you are naturally less vulnerable to them. The ironic thing about the grenades (at least in small scale PvP) is that they’re better at short range than at long range. Large scale is different because you attack enemies who are not focused on you, and there’s so much AoE going on that people can’t really differentiate between them.

For instance, I feel p/p roamer style builds (i.e.: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcEQJAqalcTp6qlcx+KseNiA6RexXjooHPGlNZfKMfA-zUCBIhJEnBgWAgEJhpQFRjtKsIasKZCyqbY6YJlQALWDA-w) are superior to grenade focused builds in a 1v1. This does rely on the person knowing what the grenade kit does though, but most engineers are probably fairly familiar with it. The main reason I feel the p/p roamer wins out is because it can focus on avoiding the grenades while still attacking, and it can kite the enemy if they try to get in closer for point-blank grenade tosses.

Some people consider it the “does everything” kit, but I’ve never found that to be true, even if it can be really effective in a multitude of situations.

i find grenades (on land) very hard to aim and unless i see a zerg i really dont wanna use them…or if a thief is chasing me theni just throw em right behind me.

insanemaniac.2456:

tbh sil, in like a year of wandering wvw… i could count on 1 hand the number of times i needed to actively decide to stop using grenades because my opponent was avoiding them. maybe thats just me.

Do you count traditional or binary with your hand? :P
Not saying they are useless, just that depending on enemy and situation their efficiency can drop below a level where I’d prefer a different utility on my bar. Even if it happened to you few times, these moments make you realize the shortcomings of nades.
Telling from my experience, the better you and esp. your opponents are, the worse explosives get. They’re still great anti-melee and zoning tools, but for me the belief of them being superior to anything else faded many months ago as I got more experience and more and more enemies weren’t just running in the nades I threw behind me. They are good at something, other utilities are good at something else. They’ll not be useless but they aren’t a must have either.

traditional :P
iirc… a windmill fight club night dueling a guardian, a mesmer roamer in the north 1/2 of a bl, maybe another mesmer somewhere else, and a fresh air ele at s camp

and by a year of roaming i mean like.. minimum 2 hours a day, a lot of it 4-6 hours… ><
its not all exciting fights but at least a couple a day

even when i lost, i usually ended up having enough cc to dictate positioning (and therefore hit nades), but occasionally the opponent could dodge/cleanse ~5 ccs and move unpredictably and get his own bursts off or handle mine, so nades did nothing.

like i understand your point and its legit, i just never experienced it in practice much.