Guild Wars 2

Do the brilliant designers at Anet realize grenade DPS isn’t just what you see on the tooltip? Do you realize grenades can do ZERO damage depending on whats going on? We already have an offset to the high DPS of grenades, its called mobs walking out of the ****ing AOE. It’s called having zero DPS while we have to dodge things (in most cases unless you can just circle the target at the same radius).

The fact that it gives us carpal tunnel is another thing no other class has to deal with.

Whatever, I’ll just go make a Guardian like everyone else. Happy?

My tooltip damage fully buffed for “Grenade” went from 462 to 301. Very frustrating……..

Nilgoow.1037:

Anet balances around tournament PvP, not PvE.

If they balance around PvP, then why make PvP nerfs affect PvE nerfs?

Yes, Grenade, the weapon kit everyone just yesterday was proclaiming as the best damage source available to engineers, so much so that other options where useless, is at such a disadvantage now and secretly was all along. We just couldn’t see it because…

Just because, okay?

I guess you should have been more vocal when everyone was singing praises about Grenades from atop the heavens.

The other kits were and are useless for DPS because they are useless for DPS, not because the grenade kit was actually viable.

omgwtflolbbl.7142:

Nilgoow.1037:

Anet balances around tournament PvP, not PvE.

If they balance around PvP, then why make PvP nerfs affect PvE nerfs?

I thought for sure they had learned from this mistake as well, from looking at it it definitely looks like they mixed the two once again. Instead of increasing the damage output of pve to the pvp damage ratio, they did the opposite. Now maybe pvpers will listen to us pve’ers that have been steadily complaining since a month ago about this issue the last time they did this to our profession!

Only according to the forums. I distinctly remember being kind of insulted when I started using the toolkit, which I had been told does terrible damage, and started destroying people with it. Rifle+Toolkit is a hellish amount of burst damage with a lot of survivability baked into it. I’m glad the TANKCAT thread turned me on to it.

Sorry about your grenades though. That must be tough.

What other range weapon misses completely every time a mob changes direction (besides flamethrower LOL)? What other class weapon takes up to 3 seconds to register damage (in a 10s encounter you’re doing nothing for 30% of that time). What other weapon loses DPS dramatically (down to zero at times) if the user has to stay mobile? Anet, please enlighten me.

And I never understood why grenades were nerfed in PvP. Who even uses grenades in tPvP? How do you even hit an actual human being capable of unpredictable movements, besides random luck? I would like to meet these players who were making grenades OP in tpvp, and get next week’s lotto numbers from them.

Every other engineer posting about grenades before this patch seemed to do pretty damn okay with them, as I recall. Its’ hilarious that people are only just now making a claim about how modestly the weapon performed. Where were you before, exactly?

I always thought that the tradeoff for having higher damage with grenades was that they were AOE and on a delay. In WvW in particular this meant that you missed your target a significant number of times unless you were shooting at a piece of siege equipment.

One day, the entire forum is claiming that grenade kit is the highest DPS kit.
Then, when Anet puts it on the same level as others, everyone says it’s horrible.

Yea…I may not be ragequitting my Engi like everyone else is, but I’m done with these forums.

Mobott.5908:

One day, the entire forum is claiming that grenade kit is the highest DPS kit.
Then, when Anet puts it on the same level as others, everyone says it’s horrible.

Yea…I may not be ragequitting my Engi like everyone else is, but I’m done with these forums.

It was the highest dps kit. Now it’s just as bad as the other ones.

Mobott.5908:

One day, the entire forum is claiming that grenade kit is the highest DPS kit.
Then, when Anet puts it on the same level as others, everyone says it’s horrible.

Yea…I may not be ragequitting my Engi like everyone else is, but I’m done with these forums.

I don’t think that’s the issue. The issue is that the Grenade kit was the only viable source of damage to be comparable with other classes. The solution should have been to buff up the other kits and bring them in line, not knock down the only thing that was working for Engineers.

Look at Turrets. They’ve not been touched or talked about since day 1. They’re completely worthless, no matter what you do with them at the moment.
Look at Flamethrower. It’s an absolute mess of misses and low damage.
Look at Tool Kit. It’s a melee weapon that’s only capable of attacking a single target. While it does have it’s various utilities for PvP, most are not as useful in PvE.
Look at ANY of Engineer Elites. They’re all absolutely terrible in PvE.

The problem wasn’t that the Grenade Kit was too good. The problem is that everything else is absolute junk.

Tekyn.5376:

I always thought that the tradeoff for having higher damage with grenades was that they were AOE and on a delay. In WvW in particular this meant that you missed your target a significant number of times unless you were shooting at a piece of siege equipment.

This is what I always believed, and that delay makes it SO much different from other aoes

havoc.8569:

What other range weapon misses completely every time a mob changes direction (besides flamethrower LOL)? What other class weapon takes up to 3 seconds to register damage (in a 10s encounter you’re doing nothing for 30% of that time). What other weapon loses DPS dramatically (down to zero at times) if the user has to stay mobile? Anet, please enlighten me.

And I never understood why grenades were nerfed in PvP. Who even uses grenades in tPvP? How do you even hit an actual human being capable of unpredictable movements, besides random luck? I would like to meet these players who were making grenades OP in tpvp, and get next week’s lotto numbers from them.

Guardian scepter is pretty bad on moving targets too. That doesn’t make the nerf to grenades less bad though. Just pointing it out.
I started playing an engineer recently and leveled to 80. During my leveling, I tried the grenades and didn’t like it to be honest. I was feeling it was really too much of an effort and really bad for my hands and I’m not even talking about lags if you happen to have some, the kit is pretty much useless. I couldn’t see myself run the grenade kit as a main one for these reasons.
Imo, if they want to nerf the damage as they did, they should improve the travel speed of the grenades or maybe their radius so that it’s more reliable on moving targets and not completly OP on stationnary one. I guess that would still be a big nerf to those who can aim them perfectly.
Again I have not been playing an engineer for a long time but that’s what I felt when leveling.

Mobott.5908:

One day, the entire forum is claiming that grenade kit is the highest DPS kit.
Then, when Anet puts it on the same level as others, everyone says it’s horrible.

Yea…I may not be ragequitting my Engi like everyone else is, but I’m done with these forums.

I think you meant the highest DPS ability in game, right?
In my opinion, there is a difference in being theoretically the highest DPS ability under ideal circumstances (!=reality) and the practical application of the skill with all the implications.
So if you reduce the theoretical DPS possibility, you hit the practical application even more so; thats what people that complain mean.

I think its not as bad as most of you post here. I use a pistol / shield setup with knights gear and cond-dmg/vit jewelery. Sigils are Accuracy and Air (might switch now for Fire).

The Shrapnel buff is nice and you dont even need to have a mob targeted to get the lightning proc off. So its possible to have a lot of bleeding stacks going while lightning strike adds additional damage.

Nilgoow.1037:

Anet balances around tournament PvP, not PvE.

Anet dont balance at all.
Since BWE1 there were engineer nerfs in every single patch. While the class that actually ruins WvW, that is played by 50% of the WvW population is buffed.

Kontrolle.3514:

Nilgoow.1037:

Anet balances around tournament PvP, not PvE.

Anet dont balance at all.
Since BWE1 there were engineer nerfs in every single patch. While the class that actually ruins WvW, that is played by 50% of the WvW population is buffed.

lmao you consider WvW to be PvP. It’s just a bunch of scrubs/lowbies shooting doors and npcs.

Highest damage assuming every thing hits, which is a BIG assumption. I’d like to think I have gotten pretty good at leading targets with grenades and I still miss 30% of the time on anything that moves, and only if they’re crippled the entire time. If they’re not crippled and chasing people around, its more like 70% miss rate.

Hell even IF the target is not moving, you are not guaranteed to have all 3 grenades hit unless the target is massive.

Nilgoow.1037:

Kontrolle.3514:

Nilgoow.1037:

Anet balances around tournament PvP, not PvE.

Anet dont balance at all.
Since BWE1 there were engineer nerfs in every single patch. While the class that actually ruins WvW, that is played by 50% of the WvW population is buffed.

lmao you consider WvW to be PvP. It’s just a bunch of scrubs/lowbies shooting doors and npcs.

Lol only scrubs and baddies do this joke of a PvP-mode called sPvP.
For your record, WvW is what keeps this game from beeing dead.
Noone plays or likes sPvP. I guess youre from WoW.
While i jung boy, came from DAoC, youre now allowed to bow before your master.

Tekyn.5376:

My tooltip damage fully buffed for “Grenade” went from 462 to 301. Very frustrating……..

That’s annoying. If that’s true, its a 35% decrease not 30%.

462-301 = 161
462*.35 = 161.7

SUPER SAD! Anet, your logic is beyond stupid. If there was no innercooldown on sigils such as flame aoe, then yes, I would see 30% being justified, but there is. This is such a nerf. Take back your crappy sigils and give us stats instead; BETTER YET, do both at the same time. The fact that this problem pre-existed beta and took this long into live to get only HALF FIXED is shocking.