Guild Wars 2

Hi, I used to love the engineer while leveling it, made it to level 38 before turning away from it (mind you this was my first time in the world, leveling can take a while)

I was in awe with the diversity, I loved bombs, grenades, elixir gun, rocket boots, personal battering ram, slick shooes ->rocket boots.

I feel like I learned guild wars as an Engineer, was fun, but then a big problem hit me when I got into pvp.

I played about 100 games on my engineer, trying different builds, I loved the static discharge build and its variants the most, but found I couldn’t survive two seconds with a thief, or if I built to do so, could no longer enjoy static discharge for what it was, a burst spec. After trying tons of builds, it finally dawned on me that the best kit for almost anything (except maybe pve) is the grenade kit, its damage/control/conditions made it a most potent engineering tool. Than I found that if I mixed it with a bomb kit, I’d have lots of protection while in melee, while being able to switch to grenades and condition spam some more. With Supply depot being the only real viable elite, and healing turret being the best heal with these two monster combo kits, I’d either mix in elixir gun or toolkit or rocket boots, depending on if I was playing a support, bunker or roamer (far node/assist on assaults) respectively.

Basically, I reached a point where it felt like any other build simply wasn’t viable in Spvp. Have any other engineers reached this hurdle? If so, how did you get over it? I have been playing a ranger lately, and near as I can tell, there is more actual diversity in the class for pvp. Sure power rangers aren’t as viable as a spirit build or bm bunker or even a shout bunker, but really the difference in power isn’t so great that you can’t enjoy the varying specs. I get to go into a match and decide if I want to dmg/support/bunker just like the engineer, and while it is better to bunker as a ranger, its viable to play support and dmg, and when I do play those roles, my weapons, traits and utility skills can vary greatly.

What it all comes down to, is that I find Engineer to be a profession which advertises lots of diversity when leveling and wvw (don’t know much about high lvl pve yet), but in spvp, if you want to kitten , go grenades, if you want to be a B class, enjoy the diversity.

Sorry for the long read, I just want to see light with the Engineer, I feel like I’m missing something about how they can play. Its too bad my all gadget/toolkit static discharge build was such a flop. (only cause you are defenseless to any focus fire, I hate when a good thief notices my build and just harasses me all game, funny enough I had the most problems with p/p thiefs in skyhammer)

Engineer is for ones with steel fingers.

lol

I wouldn’t mind endless regeneration like Wolverine, then my fingers would never get tired of throwing grenades. But seriously, I didn’t find grenades unbearable, just felt trapped into playing it, as it felt way more effective than any other build available to the engineer.

That is simply because it is.

Try “Teldo’s nodefighter” build or 3kit, they work wonder and are a blast to play.

I really have to disagree. The Grenade Kit is great at a lot of things, but there are far better builds for both capping and defending nodes.

The Bomb Kit and Flamethrower both have knockbacks—something the Grenade Kit doesn’t have—and are far more useful for defending points given their better defensive traits.

It really just comes down to playstyle, though I will say that running the Grenade Kit is likely the easiest way to find success in sPvP in the condi meta. Fighting fire with fire, so to speak.

I like to go in with a might-stacking flamethrower build. It has been working great for me in sPvP.

Probably isn’t the profession for you if you ever feel “trapped” into a certain utility on the Engineer , since ive begin this game in 2012 i’ve never once picked up nades for more than 30 mins lol because i know i have far better results with other kits/specs . What your problem is probably is , when thieves(or any other melee class in general) hop on you you’re having troubles peeling them off your back so they stealth stab harass stealth and repeat leaving you with a small windows of retaliating besides with lobbing nades around you. Read .Learn and React or expect to respawn when facing them..no AOE needed.

Loboling.5293:

snip

Grenades are good but there are other options. We have several versions of nodefighter due to easy access to knockbacks and AoE. You can go glass cannon with the obvious benefits and drawbacks that come with that, as you’ve already seen. You can also go full bunker with the rifle or p/s and several combinations of bombkit, toolkit, elixir gun, or flamethrower. Elixir R gives you teamfight utility and elixir C is good for bunkering vs. necros, rangers, and condi engineers.

Very few top engineers play the same build, which I think is incredible. It takes a lot of effort but you can find something fun and viable.

In PvE I agree they’re too good relative to our other options. They put out crazy amounts of conditions, and good direct damage, all for just spamming a couple skills. I don’t like it. No utility to them, sure, but in PvE when you mostly want AOE damage grenades are hard to pass up. Not to say other builds are bad, or even worse than grenades, it’s just the skill to effectiveness of grenades ratio is off.

In PvP I don’t think they are, the hazards of moving targets and flight time greatly reduce their effectiveness. While they’re nice to spike a bunch of conditions on someone in melee range, I wouldn’t use them as my main weapon.

Here’s my rundown on the kits:

• Bombs are extremely easy to dodge – but that is getting fixed

• Toolkit is actually really good, melee might feel weird as Engineer but they are capable.

• Elixir gun is for support, as an attacking weapon it’s bad, but you only take it for the toolbelt and the cleanse/blast.

• Flamethrower is a bit of a mess and really needs some time spent on it.

• Grenades are OK, but their travel time is just much too slow in my opinion (any weapon with a projectile slower than run speed needs an increase in my opinion, and most have been getting that which is good). Grenades suffer more from this than standard projectiles due to being ground target.

For sPvP, due to the limited stat combinations, you are forced to build Rabid if you want toughness (essentially if you don’t want to die near instantly to zerktard burst builds).

Grenades, as a power kit, are much weaker in this environment than Flamethrower (burns/knockback) or Bombs (burns/stealth/knockback/confusion).

So,
for WvW: Nades are best due to the availability of toughness with power stats
for sPvP: FT or Bombs are best due to forced condi meta.
for PvE: I believe bombs do the most DPS… But you can run anything in PvE, it’s trivial.

Brew Pinch.5731:

Here’s my rundown on the kits:

• Bombs are extremely easy to dodge – but that is getting fixed

• Toolkit is actually really good, melee might feel weird as Engineer but they are capable.

• Elixir gun is for support, as an attacking weapon it’s bad, but you only take it for the toolbelt and the cleanse/blast.

• Flamethrower is a bit of a mess and really needs some time spent on it.

• Grenades are OK, but their travel time is just much too slow in my opinion (any weapon with a projectile slower than run speed needs an increase in my opinion, and most have been getting that which is good). Grenades suffer more from this than standard projectiles due to being ground target.

For sPvP, due to the limited stat combinations, you are forced to build Rabid if you want toughness (essentially if you don’t want to die near instantly to zerktard burst builds).

Grenades, as a power kit, are much weaker in this environment than Flamethrower (burns/knockback) or Bombs (burns/stealth/knockback/confusion).

So,
for WvW: Nades are best due to the availability of toughness with power stats
for sPvP: FT or Bombs are best due to forced condi meta.
for PvE: I believe bombs do the most DPS… But you can run anything in PvE, it’s trivial.

I disagree with some of this. First, Elixir Gun is most definitely a good support kit but don’t count it out for damage. Using its auto attack in a condition build is a good option, lots of bleeds plus weakness and even hits harder than pistol (scales better I think). In a power build Acid Bomb hits like a truck.

Also, grenades are certainly not a power kit. They just apply too many conditions to be considered a power kit. Out of the kits you listed I would build both FT and bombs for power before grenades.

Lastly, there are certainly other options if you want toughness. Soldier’s, Cleric’s, and Valkyrie’s amulets both offer just as much toughness as Rabid. I don’t understand why you consider Rabid the only choice.

Adamantium.3682:

Also, grenades are certainly not a power kit. They just apply too many conditions to be considered a power kit. Out of the kits you listed I would build both FT and bombs for power before grenades.

You can run Nades in a condi build, sure. They do stack bleeds/poison.

Bombs can also stack bleeds, but with the addition of burn (our main condi) and confusion.

FT stacks bleeds faster than Nades and can deliver a lot of burning, countering cleanse well.

So of the three, Nades is worse condition wise.

Adamantium.3682:

Lastly, there are certainly other options if you want toughness. Soldier’s, Cleric’s, and Valkyrie’s amulets both offer just as much toughness as Rabid. I don’t understand why you consider Rabid the only choice.

In my opinion Vitality is a poor stat, simply devaluing healing and taking points away from offensive stats. Vitality is also less important when you carry appropriate cleanse.

In the same vein that defensive stats are the training wheels of PvE, vitality is the training wheels of PvP. (It’s value can be much greater in ZvZ though)

I believe Vitality’s place in PvP amulets should be to “tone down” over effective stat distributions (as it is with zerkers).

Healing power never seems to be worth the points either in my experience, although I will admit I should play around with it more before making a definitive judgment.

There are ways to spec the Static discharge build for more success in PvP. Soon they will change Elxir S and it will become more survivable in PvP.

I personally have my own Burst build and several bunker and condi builds for PvP and they all do not include grenades. I can’t deny the power of the kit because I can see how hard-hitting it is when I’m hit by it but it’s utility is just very lacking and is the reason I mostly come out on top in a 1v1 when someone pulls out a grenade kit.

In a team fight though, it’s probably the better choice because of the cleave range and the AoE poison isn’t bad either.

I’ve been running a Rifle/SD build with some good control. If a thief catches me off guard I’m down but if I see um coming I’ve got tools to bring a fair fight. I’ve taken down thieves as much as they’ve taken me so I feel its a good enough build. We should see some turret options come into play soon too.

GL
Blood~

Adamantium.3682:

Also, grenades are certainly not a power kit. They just apply too many conditions to be considered a power kit. Out of the kits you listed I would build both FT and bombs for power before grenades.
.

Nades most certainly can be considered a power kit as its power scaling is very strong. For example we agree that the Rifle #1 skill is a pretty hard hitting power skill. It scales off power at a .65 coefficient. Nades #1 skill meanwhile has something like a .33 coefficient, however you throw 3 of them at a time (provided you trait for it). So if you manage to land all three nades, you’ll be getting the full return out of your power. That’s not including the other 2 nade skills that scale even better.

One thing is wish is that having Tool Kit active would count as carrying a shield for a certain trait. we do after all have a shield skill as part of the kit (Gear Shield).

AsmallChicken.9634:

Adamantium.3682:

Also, grenades are certainly not a power kit. They just apply too many conditions to be considered a power kit. Out of the kits you listed I would build both FT and bombs for power before grenades.
.

Nades most certainly can be considered a power kit as its power scaling is very strong. For example we agree that the Rifle #1 skill is a pretty hard hitting power skill. It scales off power at a .65 coefficient. Nades #1 skill meanwhile has something like a .33 coefficient, however you throw 3 of them at a time (provided you trait for it). So if you manage to land all three nades, you’ll be getting the full return out of your power. That’s not including the other 2 nade skills that scale even better.

^this… also if you notice condi duration is in the power line, it’s for a reason. Helps make the vuln stacks stick around longer which benefits direct damage, and still allows conditions (if not cleared) to do a significant amount of additional damage over time through increased duration rather than increased effect.

Hmm, well I agree grenades can hit very hard I probably shouldn’t have said they “are not a power kit”. My stance is that given the 3 kits that were mentioned, I would build grenades first for conditions (to me it’s not even close) and last for power. Grenades can work for both, but my comments were mostly made with the idea that your other options were specifically FT and bombs.

Adamantium.3682:

Hmm, well I agree grenades can hit very hard I probably shouldn’t have said they “are not a power kit”. My stance is that given the 3 kits that were mentioned, I would build grenades first for conditions (to me it’s not even close) and last for power. Grenades can work for both, but my comments were mostly made with the idea that your other options were specifically FT and bombs.

For pve going power is definitely the way to go for any kind of group activity. You really want the the ability to front load large amounts of damage in short time spans as opposed to having the ramp up time of condi damage or the possibility of being overwritten. I use them as condi based in wvw/spvp mostly because I want the toughness from the rabid type stats.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Adamantium.3682:

Hmm, well I agree grenades can hit very hard I probably shouldn’t have said they “are not a power kit”. My stance is that given the 3 kits that were mentioned, I would build grenades first for conditions (to me it’s not even close) and last for power. Grenades can work for both, but my comments were mostly made with the idea that your other options were specifically FT and bombs.

For pve going power is definitely the way to go for any kind of group activity. You really want the the ability to front load large amounts of damage in short time spans as opposed to having the ramp up time of condi damage or the possibility of being overwritten. I use them as condi based in wvw/spvp mostly because I want the toughness from the rabid type stats.

I agree though I prefer hybrid in PvE. I feel full conditions just has too many drawbacks.

I have to say, I come close to 3k hours engineer now and I use exactly the same kits: Grenades + Bombs + EG. Combined with Healing turret and p/s this is just the most viable spec for PvE, WvW and PVP imo.

Static Discharge cannot 100-0 anyone and works best on enemy glasscannons. Your primary victims are Necro’s with DS on cool down, and other Engi’s due to their lack of good stunbreaks. You want to start with terrain and opening advantages, always.
It is very hard to kill a good thief playing what his class does best, ganking squishy and low health targets, when you fit the description exactly. You have to land all your CC and have your team finish him off, trying to kite him as well as is possible. It will be difficult if you are running Tool/Rifle Turret/Goggles. You lack defensive options.
Best bet is clear blind with Blunderbuss, Overcharged Shot his BP stealth, Net Shot him and see if he has steal/shadowstep up so you know where to Crate him and get out. You can also try to Rifle burst him when he gets close but you have to be quick with immobilise. Watch the blind/headshot.

This is a Rifle Burst variant by Chaithh:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piY38SyF17IyoHdGpJaiKkffewWtFEC-TkAg0CnIQShkDJDSSksINsA
Be sure to have fury on you before you Net Shot/Magnet -> point blank Grenade Barrage for 8k+. The CC from Magnet + Rifle 4 is usually enough to keep glasscannons on the floor long enough to finish off with your 2k rifle autos.

Here is also a post I made previously listing builds that some good players use:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/CC-Dps-spvp-Build-1/first#post2830910
You might want to try those out for yourself.