Guild Wars 2

Ragnarox.9601:

So wheres necro and mesmer nerfs too?

We got ours already, consume conditions got an increased cool down and 10 vul on use, and we can’t corrupt stability into fear. -_-

Don’t worry, Anet will just nerf mesmer again.

Hmm.. I am horrible at PvP and I got more kills in one match, on this one engineer trying to throw those things at me, than I ever remember having done before.

Did not know it was a problem until after, either. Just dodge and pew pew like I always do.

Guess they must have figured it was an easy way to win a match. (their team did win though!)

Ragnarox.9601:

So wheres necro and mesmer nerfs too?

Let me know what necro traits/skills are OP because I can’t find them!

100+% crit warrios with quickness
5 hammers guardians partys with symbols bug
hitkilll shatters

But well, only granadier got nerfed. For all engi players, go play some zerker warrior pve build, anet hate us.

ePush.3148:

100+% crit warrios with quickness
5 hammers guardians partys with symbols bug
hitkilll shatters

But well, only granadier got nerfed. For all engi players, go play some zerker warrior pve build, anet hate us.

You’re behind a day. Symbol trait got disabled too. They’re both being worked on and when they’re ready to function correctly they’ll be released back into the wild. No need for Woe is Me comments.

Ragnarox.9601:

So wheres necro and mesmer nerfs too?

6 Days Ago
Healing Prism: Increased the base healing by 200%. Added a 10-second internal cooldown.

Nerfed due to interaction with Necro’s Vampiric Presence causing large amounts of AoE heals. Was not “disabled until a fix was available”, but simply nerfed to a state where it wouldn’t even be picked if it wasn’t a minor. (Some Mesmers on the forums have asked for this to be re-looked at and maybe changed to be a percentage of the base heal, with a slight scaling on Healing Power. This would address the VP heals while also allowing Mesmers to have AoE heals on a slightly useful scale.)

8 Days Ago
Chaotic Dampening: Reduced the recharge reduction percent of staff skills per pulse of chaos armor from 5% to 2%.

Nerfed because low cooldown on Chaos Storm from (non-bugged) interaction with this trait. While it is still a usable trait, the counter-argument to the nerf is that it is easily countered since anytime you’ll see a Mesmer with a Staff, you know they will have this trait and you can simply move away from their Chaos Storm, forcing them to chase you down and use Utility Glamours to obtain Chaos Armor again (effectively blowing the long cooldowns and wasting skills to chase you down and maintain low weapon skill cooldowns).

Power Block: Reduced the damage on interrupt by 17%.

Nerfed because high interrupt damage…? At least it doesn’t have an ICD… yet.

9 Days Ago:
Maim the Disillusioned: Reduced the torment from 2 stacks for 6 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds.

Apparently this was something that was already in the pipeline, but it doesn’t make sense for a Master trait to do so little. Arguably, if you have the right traits and utilities, you could apply 10+ stacks of Torment with this trait (20+ without the nerf), but it would mean you blow everything (and I mean everything. All your escapes, defenses, everything) to do something that most players can already deal with (condition removal is a thing, remember?).

I think this nerf makes most sense in regards to HoT, but since we’re not there yet, it hits a bit close to home.

Do note that all of these nerfs were done within 3 days of the release. Which does makes them feel very knee-jerky, especially since there were no bug fixes or buffs to the Mesmer after the patch (see: “Mesmer only gets nerfed in patches” dilemma).

So feel glad you got to enjoy your OP traits for a week and don’t look the gift horse in the mouth. If you got nerfed every (hot) patch, you would feel grateful for having had something broken for so long.

Confirmed Anet did not test all the traits before official release!!

Ameno.6813:

Hmm, all my builds require grenades. I wish they woulda have just taken out the penetration component of it and left everything else as is rather than disabling it altogether. Oh well, I needed to go finish witcher 2 and 3 anyways so maybe it’ll be fixed by then.

While you’re at it can you also replace glass cannon with heal bombs? Or at least find some way to fit heal bombs back in? That was one of my favorite traits in hotjoin pvp. Bunker for days.

It wasn’t just the piercing aspect, Grenade Barrage was tossing out almost twice as many grenades as it was suppose too, and that was at least as bad as the piercing part.

biofrog.1568:

Hmm.. and here I was thinking they wouldn’t just disable Grenadier since it is so central to a Grenade Kit engineer, and engineer as a class itself. Guess I was wrong.

Guess I will also be shelving my engie until they fix the trait
I feel sorry for those who main an engie, but I guess you can go try some other builds for now.

Grenade Kit is still good without Grenadier, especially for condi builds, and believe it or not, there are Engineer builds that do not use grenades that are actually good, even sometimes great. Tired of everyone acting like the profession is pre-patch Necro levels of terrible without them.

Esplen.3940:

Ragnarox.9601:

So wheres necro and mesmer nerfs too?

6 Days Ago
Healing Prism: Increased the base healing by 200%. Added a 10-second internal cooldown.

Nerfed due to interaction with Necro’s Vampiric Presence causing large amounts of AoE heals. Was not “disabled until a fix was available”, but simply nerfed to a state where it wouldn’t even be picked if it wasn’t a minor. (Some Mesmers on the forums have asked for this to be re-looked at and maybe changed to be a percentage of the base heal, with a slight scaling on Healing Power. This would address the VP heals while also allowing Mesmers to have AoE heals on a slightly useful scale.)

8 Days Ago
Chaotic Dampening: Reduced the recharge reduction percent of staff skills per pulse of chaos armor from 5% to 2%.

Nerfed because low cooldown on Chaos Storm from (non-bugged) interaction with this trait. While it is still a usable trait, the counter-argument to the nerf is that it is easily countered since anytime you’ll see a Mesmer with a Staff, you know they will have this trait and you can simply move away from their Chaos Storm, forcing them to chase you down and use Utility Glamours to obtain Chaos Armor again (effectively blowing the long cooldowns and wasting skills to chase you down and maintain low weapon skill cooldowns).

Power Block: Reduced the damage on interrupt by 17%.

Nerfed because high interrupt damage…? At least it doesn’t have an ICD… yet.

9 Days Ago:
Maim the Disillusioned: Reduced the torment from 2 stacks for 6 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds.

Apparently this was something that was already in the pipeline, but it doesn’t make sense for a Master trait to do so little. Arguably, if you have the right traits and utilities, you could apply 10+ stacks of Torment with this trait (20+ without the nerf), but it would mean you blow everything (and I mean everything. All your escapes, defenses, everything) to do something that most players can already deal with (condition removal is a thing, remember?).

I think this nerf makes most sense in regards to HoT, but since we’re not there yet, it hits a bit close to home.

Do note that all of these nerfs were done within 3 days of the release. Which does makes them feel very knee-jerky, especially since there were no bug fixes or buffs to the Mesmer after the patch (see: “Mesmer only gets nerfed in patches” dilemma).

So feel glad you got to enjoy your OP traits for a week and don’t look the gift horse in the mouth. If you got nerfed every (hot) patch, you would feel grateful for having had something broken for so long.

Ragnarox where you at?

Foefaller.1082:

Ameno.6813:

Hmm, all my builds require grenades. I wish they woulda have just taken out the penetration component of it and left everything else as is rather than disabling it altogether. Oh well, I needed to go finish witcher 2 and 3 anyways so maybe it’ll be fixed by then.

While you’re at it can you also replace glass cannon with heal bombs? Or at least find some way to fit heal bombs back in? That was one of my favorite traits in hotjoin pvp. Bunker for days.

It wasn’t just the piercing aspect, Grenade Barrage was tossing out almost twice as many grenades as it was suppose too, and that was at least as bad as the piercing part.

biofrog.1568:

Hmm.. and here I was thinking they wouldn’t just disable Grenadier since it is so central to a Grenade Kit engineer, and engineer as a class itself. Guess I was wrong.

Guess I will also be shelving my engie until they fix the trait
I feel sorry for those who main an engie, but I guess you can go try some other builds for now.

Grenade Kit is still good without Grenadier, especially for condi builds, and believe it or not, there are Engineer builds that do not use grenades that are actually good, even sometimes great. Tired of everyone acting like the profession is pre-patch Necro levels of terrible without them.

Thus my point of saying “I guess you can go try some other builds for now”.

HOOOOOOOORAYyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

People haven’t mentioned that Grenadier also made Grenade Barrage have a 1500 range as opposed to 900. That was one of the first things I noticed prior to any extra grenades thrown.

While I hate the idea of disabling a trait and leaving a profession with just two options rather than three (more so when they’re kinda meh), this was the only real action that could have been taken due to how grossly imbalanced it was.

It also highlights the lack of alternative traits that are worth taking in the adept line. 5% damage increase when health is about 90% isn’t all that useful and the fall trait is situational. Wouldn’t mind seeing Explosive Decent and Grenadier merged together and throwing in a new trait.

Hahahaha. Finally. This should have been disabled right when it was discovered. Still better late than never.

I hope they add legendary effects to all grenades then seeing as that was the trait that enabled me to have my plasma nades from predator…the only reason I crafted that legendary.

Look if you are angry about this simply because you can’t one shot anymore you are being a bad sport. I personally abandoned my engineer a few days ago. I like grenades I have since I started engineer 2 some odd years ago but at this moment the DPS was just way over the top. I hope they fix it. I love the velocity change. Until then no more playing engineer.

That being said the lesson here that never seems to be learned is that these patches need to be checked for bugs quicker and more thoroughly.

I love how the bad Engineers are the only ones complaining about this.

JuliannS.4570:

I love how the bad Engineers are the only ones complaining about this.

Pretty much. This is for the better. Now people can have a real idea of how engineer is after the patch and work towards balancing the class in this new meta.

It would be fine if it was not for the trait being such a CORE MECHANIC!!! Might as well say “reroll untill next patch.”

mysticsicness.7598:

It would be fine if it was not for the trait being such a CORE MECHANIC!!! Might as well say “reroll untill next patch.”

All builds revolve around grenades?

Hey Grouch!! you played pvp with My guild End Game [Boys] and as the naked engi you were with I can only say that Grenadier-traited barrage was op and needed to be changed. Btw thank you for pvping with us as you made our night! Hope to play with you again soon! -John Cogbeard

I don’t normally wade in but lets have some perspective. Complaints about how people feel about the other traits in a line feel are one thing but an entirely separate issue. his trait wasn’t working as intended and was going to get fixed one way or the other at some point.

This is a reasonable step and without a good understanding of the underlying tech involved it’s a bit short sighted of us to start firing off accusations that it should’ve been done sooner or better or different

Facing one barrage engie in ranked pvp isn’t such a big issue, but having to fight three of them on mid is quite a challenge with such a broken trait! What made it worse is they were a guild group. <3 We gave them a good fight, but against those odds… Hope they fix this soon.

Sorry for the engie main players that will now have to try another build.

Finally! I never used it after patch but i got instakilled too many times in WWW by that trait! Now my hopes are in a very large and very Quick bug fixing patch! And maybe an explanation about rifled barrels… As a 100% www player i feel very bad about our actual rifle range. And im not talking only about #1 skill…

My engi temporarily disabled.

Only loosers use bugged stuff and exploits. I am glad its disabled until fix.

Static Discharge \o/

Esplen.3940:

mysticsicness.7598:

It would be fine if it was not for the trait being such a CORE MECHANIC!!! Might as well say “reroll untill next patch.”

All builds revolve around grenades?

Sadly most of them do. I’d say at least 90% of engineers had the grenade kit in their skill bar, and that was true even before the buggy patch.
Main reason is, most other kits/weapons suck. Bombs would be an alternative if their range had not been castrated.
We need some viable alternatives that are not niche builds (like SD glass cannon).

zone.1073:

Grouch, the community must give you a lot of flack for being an engineer main and on the development team. Everyone thinks your bias towards engineers affects decisions when it comes to balance. But confirming this bug, taking action, and having a prompt plan to fix the issue has really made me feel otherwise. You’re doing a good job.

Yeah, not like it almost took him 2 weeks to do this at all.

mysticsicness.7598:

It would be fine if it was not for the trait being such a CORE MECHANIC!!! Might as well say “reroll untill next patch.”

1- projectile speed and radius on 1 kit does not equate to a core mechanic.

2. All other benefits from the trait Were. Not. Intended. It. Was. A. Bug. Not. A. Legitimate. Build.

3- use glass cannon for a week or two.

4- using barrage on fall damage, kinetic battery and netshot, you can hit with 3 barrages in close succession… Only this needs skill. Got any? Or do we want to do it twice from stealth still?

Peutrifectus.4830:

mysticsicness.7598:

It would be fine if it was not for the trait being such a CORE MECHANIC!!! Might as well say “reroll untill next patch.”

1- projectile speed and radius on 1 kit does not equate to a core mechanic.

2. All other benefits from the trait Were. Not. Intended. It. Was. A. Bug. Not. A. Legitimate. Build.

The speed and area increase actually made grenades’ effective range almost match the 900 max range. Now it’s back to 400-500 I’d say, hitting anything beyond that range is sheer luck.
I’d put engi’s effective combat range now at max. 600 which makes fighting a lot of classes really hard. I’m glad the bug gets fixed, so it becomes clearer how weak the alternatives to grenades are at the moment.

I know it makes a good thing better but to call it a core mechanic is just plain wrong!

Mork vom Ork.2598:

I’m glad the bug gets fixed, so it becomes clearer how weak the alternatives to grenades are at the moment.

I think the problem is that, similar to the Grenade Kit, bugs are plaguing our build diversity. The Incendiary Ammo tooltip says that it gives 2 stacks of burning three times, but it really only gives one stack per hit; that’s a pretty huge difference in damage and needs to be resolved. The Bomb Kit also suffers from only having 180 radius despite the fact it was supposed to be 240.

Once they resolve these two issues, and reactivate Grenadier so that it works properly, the engineer will be fine. I would just mess around with SD builds until then.

Remember that we have an expansion in the works that will throw everything even further out of whack. If the engineer lacks something that makes it end up not being a meta class in PvP, that gap will probably be filled through the new specialization.

Ok nice, but please get a look into the engineers tree he is so useless in RvR.

ugh, can we get 10% damage back of the mortar. i really want to ditch nades, but the tiny bombs coming out of the car sized barrel my charr engineer holds just don’t cut it as a nades replacement. mortar with its bugged finishes and hardly better than rifle damage isn’t up to replacing nades. maybe the class should be renamed to ‘grenadier’ with nades as the primary weapon and rifle and p/s and kits?

choovanski.5462:

ugh, can we get 10% damage back of the mortar. i really want to ditch nades, but the tiny bombs coming out of the car sized barrel my charr engineer holds just don’t cut it as a nades replacement. mortar with its bugged finishes and hardly better than rifle damage isn’t up to replacing nades. maybe the class should be renamed to ‘grenadier’ with nades as the primary weapon and rifle and p/s and kits?

if they fix at least bugged minor traits in explosive then it will get 10% dmg increase…i really would like to see that together with projectile fixes.

Hvaran.6327:

choovanski.5462:

ugh, can we get 10% damage back of the mortar. i really want to ditch nades, but the tiny bombs coming out of the car sized barrel my charr engineer holds just don’t cut it as a nades replacement. mortar with its bugged finishes and hardly better than rifle damage isn’t up to replacing nades. maybe the class should be renamed to ‘grenadier’ with nades as the primary weapon and rifle and p/s and kits?

if they fix at least bugged minor traits in explosive then it will get 10% dmg increase…i really would like to see that together with projectile fixes.

jesus.. that’s bugged too. gorgeous anet. so beautiful. so playtested

im dropping explosives all together until they fix the line. aim assisted rocket does not justify the line alone.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Esplen.3940:

mysticsicness.7598:

It would be fine if it was not for the trait being such a CORE MECHANIC!!! Might as well say “reroll untill next patch.”

All builds revolve around grenades?

Sadly most of them do. I’d say at least 90% of engineers had the grenade kit in their skill bar, and that was true even before the buggy patch.
Main reason is, most other kits/weapons suck. Bombs would be an alternative if their range had not been castrated.
We need some viable alternatives that are not niche builds (like SD glass cannon).

At first I didn’t know Grenadier was bugged, I looked at it, said ‘Meh’ and was running with glass cannon in PvE. Damage was okay, I did not loose anything. After several days when I read about the bug on reddit, I tried Grenadier and was running with it for a couple of days. Ok, oneshotting things is fun, for a short period. So I switched to burning build and have spiky ~10k DPS with it even without full condi gear. Bomb kit, flamethrower, med kit – everything works fine.

Do not be afraid to try new things, grenade kit is well rounded, but engi’s strength is versatility, world doesn’t end with fixed bug in one trait for one kit.

I find it ironic that people are actually trying to defend the broken trait. No different than Guardians or Rangers trying to defend their broken abilities.

The question people should be asking is why did this patch get released. Was it a hard date? Was it based on the future code and expansion pack? Or was it that it was just missed due to lack of “real” players outside a confined test environment? I think we all know gamers find new and unique ways to abuse game environments hence the request for test servers.

Ameno.6813:

Hmm, all my builds require grenades. I wish they woulda have just taken out the penetration component of it and left everything else as is rather than disabling it altogether.

It’s probably what they will do. But you’ll have to wait until Tuesday. I suggest you play a Static Discharge build till then, or a condi bomb build, or a HGH build.

There seems to be a lot of people here who know how to develope games. If its as easy as people are insinuating it to be in this thread, I am surprised there is not a lot more AAA MMO’s on the market.

/s

Thanks for the update Josh.

Rin.1046:

There seems to be a lot of people here who know how to develope games. If its as easy as people are insinuating it to be in this thread, I am surprised there is not a lot more AAA MMO’s on the market.

/s

Thanks for the update Josh.

Absolutely.

I will say it’d be nice if they had a test server in the way other games do. A server you can load into as a player to mess around with new stuff. In other games it’s made them aware of stuff like this, I mean free testing never hurt right? Either way, I think they did a fine job, and are continuing to do so on the systems side. Just gimme content in HoT!

Sorry Jerus I disagree. A “fine job” is catching problems such as these before releasing it. This is a “Mediocre job” at best.

Funny thing is. I have a feeling they probably knew of more than a few of these bugs before it was released. Some QA/Tester is locked in his dungeon screaming “I bloody told you and No you didnt listen” in his head.

If you want to fix the grenadier, BRING ME MY 1500 RANGE BACK!!!!

And another thing, fix other classes too or EVERYONE IN THE GAME WILL BE GUARDIAN NOW!!!

Half the people on this thread are kittened or have no idea what anet just done. They did NOT just disable our bugged and admittedly OP grenade barrage, they disabled the grenadier trait, essentially halving our dps and it is much harder to land hits again. they reverted our nade kit to pre-patch conditions while every other class hits for 10k+ using autoattacks only.
they fkd us over big time. This is much worse thanthe mortar nerf.

DonQuack.9025:

Sorry Jerus I disagree. A “fine job” is catching problems such as these before releasing it. This is a “Mediocre job” at best.

Funny thing is. I have a feeling they probably knew of more than a few of these bugs before it was released. Some QA/Tester is locked in his dungeon screaming “I bloody told you and No you didnt listen” in his head.

That’s fine. And, I’m sure you’re right in that they probably knew some stuff. I guess I’m just a bit forgiving, testing for the unknown is tough. I’ve been in games that do have test servers with hundreds of people running around testing this kind of stuff… and things still slip by.

Great, with this broken trait out of the way we can now get a better idea on the performance of engineers. Which i think is not very good.

Also this, and the Guardian trait disable, does show pretty well the big drawack of completely stripping away choice. Both Explosives Adept tier and the Zeal GM tier now don’t really have any choices. There is only one trait to reasonably take, and it’s a pretty poor trait at that.
Build diversity went down the drain.

Dondarrion.9530:

Half the people on this thread are kittened or have no idea what anet just done. They did NOT just disable our bugged and admittedly OP grenade barrage, they disabled the grenadier trait, essentially halving our dps and it is much harder to land hits again. they reverted our nade kit to pre-patch conditions while every other class hits for 10k+ using autoattacks only.
they fkd us over big time. This is much worse thanthe mortar nerf.

Sky is falling, right?

Everything isn’t about engineers so it isn’t about you, ok? They also disabled Guardians trait that was also abused. They also hot fixed Rangers before they disabled traits. They are aware of other classes so their time is coming.

Do what Frankie does and Relax.