Guild Wars 2

I see on these forums so often the suggestion to just roll a grenadier build with full beserker armor if you are going to play PvE. Sure, there’s no question that it can dish out the most damage over any other Engineer build, but that doesn’t mean other builds that are still very effective and a lot of fun to play aren’t out there.

This video shows a small taste of what my current build can do. It’s a Flamethrower/Rifle build that mainly uses turrets for the other two utility slots. However, when not needed, I switch them out for gadgets and/or elixirs depending on the situation. Armor, weapon, accessories, and traits are given in the description. I took Nakoda’s build as a base and modified a bit from there.

Gah, meant for the title to say Grenadier not the only great PvE build. My bad.

Honestly i find myself preferring bombs over grenades in PVE. This because mobs usually come to you the moment you land a nade on their head, so you can just as well run up to them. And with the bombs being inherently AOE, having said mob bring friends, and they usually do, they are a lesser issue.

No offense, but your video shows pretty much nothing. Grenades are favored because they stack huge amounts of conditions (Rampager is actually better than Berserker against most targets with standard armor, in terms of raw total damage output) which makes a huge difference in dungeons where mobs don’t go down with just one hit. When you’re running around the field and mobs die in one hit, sure, anything will work.

Honestly, even if grenades did crap damage, it’d still be hard to beat a weapon that stacks 25 bleeds, 25 vuln, and gives permanent poison.

IMO one of the best pve builds is static discharge, those mobs on video you will beat in 1.5s :-) Wíth zerg gear and fire sigil you can make up to 30k dmg semi AoE spikes. For example in CoF1 I can beat 2 acolytes before 100b zerg war event finish 100b on first one:-) You are basicly 100b zerg war with quickness on 1000ft range:-) Build is about positioning you have perma swiftness and vigor. Build is simple to use but very fun to play:-)
I did all explo dungs and fractals 48 with this without problems.

Build: http://tinyurl.com/d59ggvl

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Honestly, even if grenades did crap damage, it’d still be hard to beat a weapon that stacks 25 bleeds, 25 vuln, and gives permanent poison.

And regular access to blind and freeze, and the possibility of carpal tunnel syndrome in your near future…

But yeah, I definitely prefer a Rampager set over zerker for those times when I for some reason feel like torturing my wrists and fingers with grenade spam.

What was the point of taking turrets? You didn’t use them or their toolbelt skills aside from firing one toolbelt rocket (which I find pretty underwhelming as is) so I’m not really sure why you’re taking them rather than just having gadgets/elixirs/other kits as your standard utilities and putting your inventions point into something other than turret survivability.

look, im getting pretty fed up with peoples kitten attitudes.

VIABLE MEANS DOES NOT FAIL.

All that video demonstrates is that you can have fun with coordinated efforts using any kit other than just grenades.

He did not fail in that regard, he demonstrated a particularly effective FT/Rifle combo for farming trash. You can apply these tactics to .. oh I dont know .. dungeons .. CS .. whatever .. you know, the mother kittening game you all play?

at least, i assume you actually play, the more i read these forums the less I expect half the people here actually ever log in long enough to do more than read their trait sheet and log out.

The responses to this thread are exactly why this forum is full of so much aggression .. why not kittening compliment the guy for doing something different and showing that you CAN be different without losing.

If you can’t contribute, or at least have a community oriented attitude, what the kitten are you doing playing mmos in the first place?

go play socom or call of duty or lol or dota, seriously, kitten off and play something else, no one is forcing you to be here but YOU.

I don’t think people are saying that you should only use grenades especially in PVE. Pve after all is easy and is especially a great place to test new builds and use builds that you find fun even if its not particularly optimal. It is only a game after all.

However what people are saying is that from a pure mathematical and min-max perspective (and only for straight damage) grenades are your best option both direct and condition damage wise. There’s really no arguing around that (ok bomb may edge out nades by a bit, its been a while since i’ve seen the math but they are pretty hard to use and a bit clunky). Nonetheless that doesn’t mean you should use nades if you don’t want to. But if you want to be as efficient as you can (in dealing damage that is), nades are your best choice.

/facepalm

You’re getting mad because people want to minmax? You can do whatever you want “for fun” but some people are going to prefer to be efficient if possible.

no, im mad because people proselytize as though mix/maxing is the only viable way of playing this game, giving new players the wrong impression, stifling creativity, and generally degrading the quality of the discussion about legitimate issues.

I would go so far as to say that the engineer forum in gw2 is the worst for this sort of hegemonic belligerence in any mmo I’ve ever played.

the massively-multi part of these games should indicate to you that there are multiple WAYS of playing.

let’s take a console example:

Bethesda sandbox games. You don’t see people telling others on those forums that “omg yrou sneaky spec in fall out three doesn’t do NEARLY enough dps compared to my rocket launcher spec” … BECAUSE THE GAME REWARDS DIVERSITY.

You don’t see people on ubisoft forums telling others “ZOMG YOU DIDNT sneak around in every level in splinter cell, you didn’t play the game right!” … no because it doesn’t kittening matter.

did the person finish the game? check. how thjey played worked.

same thing here. Did the OP fail? no. So he succeeded, and is thus viable.

stop hate mongering against people who play differently than you do.

Yea I’m with nakoda on this one. This thread wasn’t started to argue whether or not anything does better damage than grenades. Simply that there are plenty of other builds out there that work. IMO, the most important factor in any build I run is the fun-factor. If it has it, I’ll use it. I’ve been running with FT/EG conditions and am loving it. Not to mention that I can support my teammates as well with my build. It might not burn down foes as fast as another build, but it’s fun & useful.

Engi has more viable builds than any profession I’ve played in GW2. It’s endless fun. Why limit yourself solely to the grenade kit when there are so many other unique and fun options (tool kit, flamethrower, elixir gun, etc)?

Landscape can be facerolled using any skills\traits\gear as long as you know how to dodge\kite\heal.

Dungeons can be facerolled using any skills\traits\gear as long as you know how to dodge\kite\heal.

WvW can be facerolled using any skills\traits\gear as long as you know how to dodge\kite\heal. [against upleveled scrubs]

30+ Fractals can not be facerolled by any\every build.
WvW against AoN can not be facerolled by any\every build.
tPVP can not be facerolled by any\every build.

There are multiple facets to this game and each may require a different build to be effective. When PvE is the sole aspect we are speaking on; the best build is the one with the best offense or one with great defense against multiple opponents while doing good damage.
Just because a build is the best doesn’t mean its the only build that can be used.

I’ve always had an engie and never used nades inside fractals. They are the best a dishing damage and conditions but I don’t want to use them. I’m at Lv33 and can be higher if I decided to keep running them instead of enjoying wvw\pvp.
But in WvW I always use nades because they are the best way to discourage a zerg.
In pvp I use my own builds which I’ve been successful with but not shared.

This actually illustrates perfectly the problems with the class. Now go make a condi damage trap ranger, a rifle build warrior and do the same thing.

I played ranger and even with it’s nerfed AI and pet problems it still out DPSs completely.

The points I’ve made about the engineer class have all been based on two main things, the nerfs to the engineer’s condi dps numbers (where even a noncondi build in another class without gear will out dps engineers without gear but specced into condi damage types) and the traits on the engineer line being nowhere near what we would expect an adventurer class would have despite their claims of it being ~such a versatile class that requires special balance~ meanwhile the elementalist keeps all of it’s scholarly damage output and keeps it’s king of versatility crown.

The problem is this class is neither an adventurer class, nor a soldier class, it’s got not enough of the strengths of either and thus is just a culmination of chaos.

I counted them in your video, there was a common average of 10 attacks per sequence to do enough damage to kill the main targeted enemy in every attack you began. Compare that to my 3-4 attacks on a trap ranger built for condi damage who can AOE just as well as the engineers attacks can.

I agree wholeheartedly that grenades should not be the sole method of dps for this class.

I however am astonished that you would use such a build and think that it works so much better, when in fact it takes longer on engineers to kill anything then it does on any class unless we use the cookie cutter niche builds like the grenadier and even then we throw out a total of about 20*24 grenades when it’s all said and done. That’s not normal folks.

Does anyone else remember the video on the engineer where you could throw out ten grenades total to kill something? Five attacks? That’s how it was on the first month of launch before they started “adjusting” everything for pvp which directly borked the engineer for pve. They have yet to recover from that breakage in pve.

kevkelsar.9507:

This video shows a small taste of what my current build can do. It’s a Flamethrower/Rifle build that mainly uses turrets for the other two utility slots. However, when not needed, I switch them out for gadgets and/or elixirs depending on the situation. Armor, weapon, accessories, and traits are given in the description. I took Nakoda’s build as a base and modified a bit from there.

I have my Eng use the same weapon/kit for the longest time now. But I’m phasing out from using turrets since it really bugs me when trying to pick up loot and picking up the turret instead. :/

I use the following healing and utilities;
- Med Kit
- FT
- Tool Kit
- Slick Shoes

I find Slick Shoes hilarious seeing my target slip and fall while I burn them to death.

tigirius.9014:

This actually illustrates perfectly the problems with the class. Now go make a condi damage trap ranger, a rifle build warrior and do the same thing.

I played ranger and even with it’s nerfed AI and pet problems it still out DPSs completely.

The points I’ve made about the engineer class have all been based on two main things, the nerfs to the engineer’s condi dps numbers (where even a noncondi build in another class without gear will out dps engineers without gear but specced into condi damage types) and the traits on the engineer line being nowhere near what we would expect an adventurer class would have despite their claims of it being ~such a versatile class that requires special balance~ meanwhile the elementalist keeps all of it’s scholarly damage output and keeps it’s king of versatility crown.

The problem is this class is neither an adventurer class, nor a soldier class, it’s got not enough of the strengths of either and thus is just a culmination of chaos.

I counted them in your video, there was a common average of 10 attacks per sequence to do enough damage to kill the main targeted enemy in every attack you began. Compare that to my 3-4 attacks on a trap ranger built for condi damage who can AOE just as well as the engineers attacks can.

I agree wholeheartedly that grenades should not be the sole method of dps for this class.

I however am astonished that you would use such a build and think that it works so much better, when in fact it takes longer on engineers to kill anything then it does on any class unless we use the cookie cutter niche builds like the grenadier and even then we throw out a total of about 20*24 grenades when it’s all said and done. That’s not normal folks.

Does anyone else remember the video on the engineer where you could throw out ten grenades total to kill something? Five attacks? That’s how it was on the first month of launch before they started “adjusting” everything for pvp which directly borked the engineer for pve. They have yet to recover from that breakage in pve.

Um, what.

There’s no way in hell a trap ranger or rifle warrior will ever come anywhere near remotely close to the grenadier’s damage output, no matter what the spec is. The engineer is one of the strongest DPS classes in the game. In fact I’d even go so far as say they’re downright OP in a PvE context.

I stopped reading when I saw turrets.

Frankly, I’d recommend rampager or rabid/carrion for the grenadier set. It’s conditions are sick, and he best part is they are in an AoE. On a proc set you will cap 5 enemies on bleeds very easily.

There’s quite a bit that will work in PvE. Some of the more stringent stuff like high level fractals or some of the tougher dungeon bosses might end up requiring some specific skills or stat combinations, but general PvE can be done with whatever you want.

If fact, you can just use your pistol or rifle auto-attack exclusively and you can still succeed in general PvE… maybe it’ll slow things down, but it’ll work.

Anyone who claims that a grenade-focused build is the only way to go in PvE is likely being unreasonable. As far as min-maxing goes though, the general established consensus is that grenade-focused builds will be the most effective at killing things quickly.

The main issue with your video is that you don’t make a good demonstration of how the build functions. You take turrets, but you never deploy the turrets. As such, it’s not demonstrated how they are useful for the build. That’s like someone demonstrating an elixir build that has elixir B on the utility bar, but they never drink it. You might want to make a second take in which you show how you use the turrets and why they are an asset to the build.

I’ve no doubt that it will succeed in PvE scenarios, but the main argument when it comes to grenades is how does the success of the build in your video compare to things someone can do with grenades. The main unofficial metric in PvE is how quickly you can kill mobs… it’s only one aspect, but it’s the one people will generally care about the most.

As a side note…one thing I will say about the flamethrower and turrets is that they are quite effective in helping you “tag” mobs during karma trains. Grenades can be a tad slow at times due to the cast delay and manual targetting needed, but you can sort of just spray blindly with a flamethrower and have a high rate of mob tagging. Turrets will help by attacking for you, provided they don’t go stupid and shoot at nothing.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

tigirius.9014:

This actually illustrates perfectly the problems with the class. Now go make a condi damage trap ranger, a rifle build warrior and do the same thing.

I played ranger and even with it’s nerfed AI and pet problems it still out DPSs completely.

The points I’ve made about the engineer class have all been based on two main things, the nerfs to the engineer’s condi dps numbers (where even a noncondi build in another class without gear will out dps engineers without gear but specced into condi damage types) and the traits on the engineer line being nowhere near what we would expect an adventurer class would have despite their claims of it being ~such a versatile class that requires special balance~ meanwhile the elementalist keeps all of it’s scholarly damage output and keeps it’s king of versatility crown.

The problem is this class is neither an adventurer class, nor a soldier class, it’s got not enough of the strengths of either and thus is just a culmination of chaos.

I counted them in your video, there was a common average of 10 attacks per sequence to do enough damage to kill the main targeted enemy in every attack you began. Compare that to my 3-4 attacks on a trap ranger built for condi damage who can AOE just as well as the engineers attacks can.

I agree wholeheartedly that grenades should not be the sole method of dps for this class.

I however am astonished that you would use such a build and think that it works so much better, when in fact it takes longer on engineers to kill anything then it does on any class unless we use the cookie cutter niche builds like the grenadier and even then we throw out a total of about 20*24 grenades when it’s all said and done. That’s not normal folks.

Does anyone else remember the video on the engineer where you could throw out ten grenades total to kill something? Five attacks? That’s how it was on the first month of launch before they started “adjusting” everything for pvp which directly borked the engineer for pve. They have yet to recover from that breakage in pve.

Um, what.

There’s no way in hell a trap ranger or rifle warrior will ever come anywhere near remotely close to the grenadier’s damage output, no matter what the spec is. The engineer is one of the strongest DPS classes in the game. In fact I’d even go so far as say they’re downright OP in a PvE context.

You mean long term over an extended battle with a boss, not instant burst damage because obviously you either are using a hack or you aren’t really playing other classes to see just how easy it is for those other classes two of which that are also considered adventurer classes to burst down an enemy on any front and thus take it for granted whereas engineers have to work and scrap for every single point and yet are still considered adventurer ie easily in the dps category but take far far more attacks to do the same amount of damage or must actually use defensive abilities inbetween attacks in order to survive long enough to actually see the end result of having to be so patient in pve. These other classes take for granted what the engineer is lacking in burst damage no matter the dps build type on their part. Slap some zerker gear on and go, or try to work thru the convoluted mess which is the engineer trait lines, which would you choose?

GW2 Wiki

Adventurer is a category for the three medium armor professions. They specialize in use of precise weapons such as bows and firearms, and in most cases would belong to traditional midline roles in combat. Lore-wise they possess arts developed over centuries since the original Guild Wars, and are perhaps the most “modern” category of professions, capable of using firearms as weapons. They also have ties to practices outside of warfare, namely technology and espionage.

keywords set in bold is “most” as well as “midline combat”.

Not all classes/professions in every game are meant for burst DPS. The engineer may not be meant for burst damage. Perhaps you want every class to have burst because of the lack of trinity in this game, and so somehow that means every class needs to be the same?

so far, outside of the 100nades and SD debacles and the current HGH condition burst, it appears to me that the engineer is more of a “tankier” adventurer. for those who still need a trinity, we have rogues (high burst) rangers (sustained range dps) and engineers (mid level dps with long survivability). Then, within each of these professions are subsets of different types of builds suited for different roles/situations. Now, I am not an anet dev, but this is one possible reason for the lack of “burst” dps in our profession.

that said, I have found the engineer to be very capable at staying both out of dangerous melee range as well as maintaining pressure on ranged classes by various means of control/lockdown, and I can use these strengths with the same mindset of a tank which I have become accustomed to over the last 13 years of mmo play.

I think the “anchor” misnomer redirects attention from the fact that a tank, in essence, is just “damage mitigation.” If you are able to lockdown your opponent and prevent them from doing damage, that is “tanking” whether or not you have aggro.

/2p

My goodness, perhaps I did not explain myself very clearly or people just didn’t read what I stated here and in the description of the video. Nakoda gets it, though. Never did I say this type of game play would out DPS or even match whatever is the current cookie cutter min/max build out there. I play a game for fun, not to flex my e-pixels to show how incredibly powerful I am in a game. I went into switching from Grenadier to this knowing that my overall damage output was going to be reduced by about 25% taking into account the skills used and the different armor/accessory set up.

Also, about the turrets in the video, no I did not really use them at all. As stated in the video’s description, I forgot to switch them out. This was seriously unintentional, the making of this video. I did not plan this out. I had made the switch to this set up and the other night decided to work on some of my Slayer achievements. I found this great area for Minotaurs and was going to get to 500 kills, which I achieved at the end of the video. In the beginning, I was treating this like I do 1 vs. 1, using only the FT or Rifle to take down a single Minotaur. However, I started to think about what I had available and came up with this combo of gathering a bunch, #2 FT, #4 FT, #5 FT, #5 Rifle, #3 Rifle, #3 FT, #2 FT, clean up with #1 FT.

Normally I do use the turrets, quite often. Especially when I’m fighting Veterans/Champions. With this current set up using the Rifle, FT, Net Turret, Rocket Turret, and Supply Drop I was able to kill a Champion on my own with only getting hit maybe two or three times. The control side of this build, which is not shown in my video, is absolutely INSANE! Four different nets (two on longer cooldowns, one on very short, one on relatively short), a blind, two knockdowns, and a AoE knockback. And when fighting touch melee bosses that can drop the cookie cutter no survival builds in one or two shots, keeping that boss basically rooted in one spot can save a lot of butts. And last time I checked, being dead reduces your DPS by more than any change in skills or gear…

tigirius.9014:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

tigirius.9014:

This actually illustrates perfectly the problems with the class. Now go make a condi damage trap ranger, a rifle build warrior and do the same thing.

I played ranger and even with it’s nerfed AI and pet problems it still out DPSs completely.

The points I’ve made about the engineer class have all been based on two main things, the nerfs to the engineer’s condi dps numbers (where even a noncondi build in another class without gear will out dps engineers without gear but specced into condi damage types) and the traits on the engineer line being nowhere near what we would expect an adventurer class would have despite their claims of it being ~such a versatile class that requires special balance~ meanwhile the elementalist keeps all of it’s scholarly damage output and keeps it’s king of versatility crown.

The problem is this class is neither an adventurer class, nor a soldier class, it’s got not enough of the strengths of either and thus is just a culmination of chaos.

I counted them in your video, there was a common average of 10 attacks per sequence to do enough damage to kill the main targeted enemy in every attack you began. Compare that to my 3-4 attacks on a trap ranger built for condi damage who can AOE just as well as the engineers attacks can.

I agree wholeheartedly that grenades should not be the sole method of dps for this class.

I however am astonished that you would use such a build and think that it works so much better, when in fact it takes longer on engineers to kill anything then it does on any class unless we use the cookie cutter niche builds like the grenadier and even then we throw out a total of about 20*24 grenades when it’s all said and done. That’s not normal folks.

Does anyone else remember the video on the engineer where you could throw out ten grenades total to kill something? Five attacks? That’s how it was on the first month of launch before they started “adjusting” everything for pvp which directly borked the engineer for pve. They have yet to recover from that breakage in pve.

Um, what.

There’s no way in hell a trap ranger or rifle warrior will ever come anywhere near remotely close to the grenadier’s damage output, no matter what the spec is. The engineer is one of the strongest DPS classes in the game. In fact I’d even go so far as say they’re downright OP in a PvE context.

You mean long term over an extended battle with a boss, not instant burst damage because obviously you either are using a hack or you aren’t really playing other classes to see just how easy it is for those other classes two of which that are also considered adventurer classes to burst down an enemy on any front and thus take it for granted whereas engineers have to work and scrap for every single point and yet are still considered adventurer ie easily in the dps category but take far far more attacks to do the same amount of damage or must actually use defensive abilities inbetween attacks in order to survive long enough to actually see the end result of having to be so patient in pve. These other classes take for granted what the engineer is lacking in burst damage no matter the dps build type on their part. Slap some zerker gear on and go, or try to work thru the convoluted mess which is the engineer trait lines, which would you choose?

Engineer, because rifle warrior and ranger anything burst sucks. Engineer can easily burst just about anything dead instantly with rifle + grenades + bombs. It’s not even a contest.

kevkelsar.9507:

Normally I do use the turrets, quite often. Especially when I’m fighting Veterans/Champions. With this current set up using the Rifle, FT, Net Turret, Rocket Turret, and Supply Drop I was able to kill a Champion on my own with only getting hit maybe two or three times. The control side of this build, which is not shown in my video, is absolutely INSANE! Four different nets (two on longer cooldowns, one on very short, one on relatively short), a blind, two knockdowns, and a AoE knockback. And when fighting touch melee bosses that can drop the cookie cutter no survival builds in one or two shots, keeping that boss basically rooted in one spot can save a lot of butts. And last time I checked, being dead reduces your DPS by more than any change in skills or gear…

See, this is what I was curious about. I run a control-based build with Rifle/FT as well, and used to run turrets along it—but I just found them too fragile and unreliable (and with too high of cooldowns) and I’ve since dropped them for other utilities entirely. I was curious to see if you were doing anything differently, or if it’s just a matter of “Net Turret outclasses every other turret in PvE” for its constant immobilize as long as it’s up (and its toolbelt). They’re probably less unwieldy against single targets but I’m honestly not in 1v1 outside boss fights all that often.

when I spec for turrets, I always take Metal plating.

10/30/10/20/0 is the most "power"ful FT/turret build. (incendiary powder).

but, i typically follow

0/30/20/20/0 for a strong defensive turret build, and then run two turrets, rocket (for knock down) and net (for the net toolbelt as much as for the turret itself).

locking down an opponent neutralizes their damage output, and makes them go n the defensive…most dps classes that you lock down are not defensive classes, so the DPS:Defense ratio tends to stay stable.

Unfortunately, I never used turrets in PvE because I found the FT and the Rifle and just rushed to 80 andthen started slamming myself against a wall in spvp until I hammered out the build i have now.

I wish I could trade in all the fractals i did on my warrior before rolling engie so that I had reasonable pve gear, but i don’t, and i frankly do not care to go and farm it any more.

edit: P.S. in PvE for trash farming like the video demonstrates, I would be more apt to take the Thumper Turret over Net Turret and swap out Sitting Duck/Knee Shot for Precise Sights.

athuria.2751:

kevkelsar.9507:

Normally I do use the turrets, quite often. Especially when I’m fighting Veterans/Champions. With this current set up using the Rifle, FT, Net Turret, Rocket Turret, and Supply Drop I was able to kill a Champion on my own with only getting hit maybe two or three times. The control side of this build, which is not shown in my video, is absolutely INSANE! Four different nets (two on longer cooldowns, one on very short, one on relatively short), a blind, two knockdowns, and a AoE knockback. And when fighting touch melee bosses that can drop the cookie cutter no survival builds in one or two shots, keeping that boss basically rooted in one spot can save a lot of butts. And last time I checked, being dead reduces your DPS by more than any change in skills or gear…

See, this is what I was curious about. I run a control-based build with Rifle/FT as well, and used to run turrets along it—but I just found them too fragile and unreliable (and with too high of cooldowns) and I’ve since dropped them for other utilities entirely. I was curious to see if you were doing anything differently, or if it’s just a matter of “Net Turret outclasses every other turret in PvE” for its constant immobilize as long as it’s up (and its toolbelt). They’re probably less unwieldy against single targets but I’m honestly not in 1v1 outside boss fights all that often.

Yes, turrets can be unreliable for sure. Especially when there are groups. But against one or two at a time, they are great! I’ve found that most people who complain about turrets not surviving generally drop them in the absolute worst spots…right on top of themselves and then stay there. Unless you plan on picking up the turret very soon after dropping, which I do very often with the net turret and pick it up right after it fires one net, drop it and move somewhere else. Same goes for supply drop, I know it’s a nice stun when it first drops, but you’re just asking for the turrets to get destroyed putting them right where the action is.

The only turret you need to be remotely close to is the healing turret from the supply crate. For that, keep to the fringes of it’s circle.

nakoda.4213:

GW2 Wiki

Adventurer is a category for the three medium armor professions. They specialize in use of precise weapons such as bows and firearms, and in most cases would belong to traditional midline roles in combat. Lore-wise they possess arts developed over centuries since the original Guild Wars, and are perhaps the most “modern” category of professions, capable of using firearms as weapons. They also have ties to practices outside of warfare, namely technology and espionage.

keywords set in bold is “most” as well as “midline combat”.

Not all classes/professions in every game are meant for burst DPS. The engineer may not be meant for burst damage. Perhaps you want every class to have burst because of the lack of trinity in this game, and so somehow that means every class needs to be the same?

So according to your theory, just because the other two have sufficient traits to enhance their dps well beyond what soldiers could normally do in pve, and because they used the word most in their paragraph describing it we’re just all supposed to take your word for it.

That’s not how reality works. Either it is or it isn’t an adventurer class. The other two adventurer classes have sufficient means to trait themselves into having burst and increased damage up front in pve even when specced for condition builds. Either they will or will not allow the engineer to have the third in their version of the trinity, DPS. They’ve even denied long term DPS with their bleed cap on champions and bosses we can’t even shine there!

I think the real question here should be why didn’t they keep the engineer in heavy armor since they are obviously keeping it out of the burst dps crowd for pve despite their last minute name change to adventurer? And my second question would be why if they were really going to call it an adventurer class didnt they spend sufficient time giving it the respect that any other class deserves by going over the traits and making them match the other two adventurer classes capabilities?

They said they’d have all metas and no focus on dungeons supposed you believed that one too even post November.

I wrote up some time ago a comparison of the traits between the adventurer classes and you can see how many places they dropped the ball when it comes to burst dps on the engineer.

The Thread is Here

In it you’ll see plenty of slots where they could have placed the necessary traits to convert the engineer into a true adventurer class. And before someone comes on here and spouts some nonsense about versatility just remember that Elementalists keep their burst dps capabilities and have the same versatility as engineers do, so we don’t confuse the issue again.

nakoda.4213:

I would go so far as to say that the engineer forum in gw2 is the worst for this sort of hegemonic belligerence in any mmo I’ve ever played.

Try Anarchy Online sometime. The engineer forums there are so full of hate and spite, that it takes a serial killer mentality to come away feeling refreshed.

Actually, I worked (read: volunteered for game time) for the OLTC program writing content in AO, and I had a 220 engie. I also wrote and sold in game pet scripts to make them talk and respond to the engie.

^_^ kitten I loved AO. Still my favorite MMO to date.

My agent, Chris “Nakoda” Ardman was manager of Baboon’s on RK1 for year while the Dave “Diamondcut” Duster smuggling ring was in operation. I helped promote the underground radio station, and bookied money to Rebel/Omni converts who changed factions. It was great times.

tigirius.9014:

nakoda.4213:

GW2 Wiki

Adventurer is a category for the three medium armor professions. They specialize in use of precise weapons such as bows and firearms, and in most cases would belong to traditional midline roles in combat. Lore-wise they possess arts developed over centuries since the original Guild Wars, and are perhaps the most “modern” category of professions, capable of using firearms as weapons. They also have ties to practices outside of warfare, namely technology and espionage.

keywords set in bold is “most” as well as “midline combat”.

Not all classes/professions in every game are meant for burst DPS. The engineer may not be meant for burst damage. Perhaps you want every class to have burst because of the lack of trinity in this game, and so somehow that means every class needs to be the same?

So according to your theory, just because the other two have sufficient traits to enhance their dps well beyond what soldiers could normally do in pve, and because they used the word most in their paragraph describing it we’re just all supposed to take your word for it.

That’s not how reality works. Either it is or it isn’t an adventurer class. The other two adventurer classes have sufficient means to trait themselves into having burst and increased damage up front in pve even when specced for condition builds. Either they will or will not allow the engineer to have the third in their version of the trinity, DPS. They’ve even denied long term DPS with their bleed cap on champions and bosses we can’t even shine there!

I think the real question here should be why didn’t they keep the engineer in heavy armor since they are obviously keeping it out of the burst dps crowd for pve despite their last minute name change to adventurer? And my second question would be why if they were really going to call it an adventurer class didnt they spend sufficient time giving it the respect that any other class deserves by going over the traits and making them match the other two adventurer classes capabilities?

They said they’d have all metas and no focus on dungeons supposed you believed that one too even post November.

I wrote up some time ago a comparison of the traits between the adventurer classes and you can see how many places they dropped the ball when it comes to burst dps on the engineer.

The Thread is Here

In it you’ll see plenty of slots where they could have placed the necessary traits to convert the engineer into a true adventurer class. And before someone comes on here and spouts some nonsense about versatility just remember that Elementalists keep their burst dps capabilities and have the same versatility as engineers do, so we don’t confuse the issue again.

I don’t understand. Engineer is probably the best class in the game currently. Either that or Guardian, but it’s definitely up there. Sustained DPS, burst DPS, survivability, support, mobility; they’re top tier in pretty much every category and they don’t even have to work for it. They’re like the easiest class to play and the strongest.

And you want buffs.

Okay.

why are you so hung up on this designation of “adventurer”? and where in the description of adventurer does it say “adventurers are meant to do burst dps”?

engies have condi burst. rogues have backstab burst. rangers have … to be honest, i have no idea what rangers have, but their kitten traps make me >.<!

maybe I should have set in bold the part in Anet’s definition of the adventurer that says the professions have ties OUTSIDE of warfare?

It seems to me like you want engies to be able to everything all at once without having to specialize in anything.

Good news for you … we can … and when we specialize our traits, we get better.

/sigh, the endless battle ever since BWE#1. I come on these Engineer forums and wonder if other players are even playing the same game I am. How in the world can you think of the Engineer is so inept and weak? I’ve been playing the Engineer since that first BWE, my alts have received maybe a total of 5% of my overall playing time. I play my Engineer A LOT. I have never felt kitten I have never felt useless, I have never felt like my profession of choice has been so inferior to other professions in Dungeons, WvW, PvE, Fractals, or sPvP.

Why do so many expect the Engineer to play just like some other profession? There are 8 distinct professions for a reason, they all play differently for a reason. If I wanted to play like a Warrior or Guardian or Thief or whatever, then I would have chosen that profession instead of the Engineer. The main reason I choose to play the Engineer over and over and over again is because of the insane versatility in play style. I’m now on my fourth full set of armor because I keep finding new ways to play with the different utility skills and kits. And in all the various ways I’ve found to play, I’ve never felt underpowered or kitten in any way shape or form.

kevkelsar.9507:

Why do so many expect the Engineer to play just like some other profession? There are 8 distinct professions for a reason, they all play differently for a reason. If I wanted to play like a Warrior or Guardian or Thief or whatever, then I would have chosen that profession instead of the Engineer. The main reason I choose to play the Engineer over and over and over again is because of the insane versatility in play style. I’m now on my fourth full set of armor because I keep finding new ways to play with the different utility skills and kits. And in all the various ways I’ve found to play, I’ve never felt underpowered or kitten in any way shape or form.

I think a lot of it is self-inflicted hysteria.

I hit level 80 with my Engineer in September. I tried a few different builds. The Bomb Kit. Static Discharge. The Grenade Kit. Turrets. I liked some of them, hated others. It wasn’t until I messed around with the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun that I settled into the class at 80 though, and felt like I was playing what I wanted to play.

I’ll swap to a P/P Conditioneer from time to time, but 90% of the time, since around early October, I’ve had the FT on my bar. Every week I would hear the same tripe. Grenadier is better damage than the Flamethrower. Elixir-Infused Bombs is better support than the Elixir Gun. Really, in the past six months this place hasn’t changed at all. Guru is the same, though much more polite about it.

Engineers like to fuss amongst themselves what the best setup is, but if you ask the general population, no one knows what the eff we are doing at all. They don’t care. They see the Bomb Kit, Grenade Kit, and Flamethrower as all the same. One time I did a CoE p1 run with the Bomb Kit for a change of pace over the oft-lauded HGH build or the FT/EG setup.

No one said anything. We completed the run. I got a Charged Core or two out of it. And I left. No one told me to use anything. No one asked why I wasn’t using the Grenade Kit. No one asked if I was geared for Condition Damage or Power. We just did the run, completed it, and left.

I honestly think a lot of users in this folder are a bunch of divas. I’ve leveled a Guardian and a Warrior to 80 as well—arguably the most powerful PvE classes in the game for support and DPS respectively. Nobody cares if I use my Engineer over them. No one even notices. Generally I play with my guildies so maybe that plays into the difference in perspective, but even if I am “pugging” a dungeon, I’ll ask if it’s cool that I roll with my Engi. I’ve never heard anyone say “No.”

Ever.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I don’t understand. Engineer is probably the best class in the game currently. Either that or Guardian, but it’s definitely up there. Sustained DPS, burst DPS, survivability, support, mobility; they’re top tier in pretty much every category and they don’t even have to work for it. They’re like the easiest class to play and the strongest.

And you want buffs.

Okay.

100% agreed on most everything, but Engineer is definitely not the easiest class to play. A Static Discharge burst rotation:

Utility Goggles → Analyze → Surprise Shot → Jump Shot → Lay Mine Field → Blunderbuss → Detonate Mine Field → Overcharged Shot → Surprise Shot again → Whatever

A Greatsword Warrior burst rotation:

100 Blades

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think a lot of it is self-inflicted hysteria.

Whatever gave you that impression? ;-)

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Engineer is probably the best class in the game currently.

tigirius.9014:

This actually illustrates perfectly the problems with the class.

As so often is the case, the truth is somewhere in the middle… I personally tend to think we’re closer to the “pretty much okay, few things need tweaking” rather than the sky is falling, but I’m not going to blow rainbows up anyone’s kitten either.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I don’t understand. Engineer is probably the best class in the game currently. Either that or Guardian, but it’s definitely up there. Sustained DPS, burst DPS, survivability, support, mobility; they’re top tier in pretty much every category and they don’t even have to work for it. They’re like the easiest class to play and the strongest.

And you want buffs.

Okay.

100% agreed on most everything, but Engineer is definitely not the easiest class to play. A Static Discharge burst rotation:

Utility Goggles -> Analyze -> Surprise Shot -> Jump Shot -> Lay Mine Field -> Blunderbuss -> Detonate Mine Field -> Overcharged Shot -> Surprise Shot again -> Whatever

A Greatsword Warrior burst rotation:

100 Blades

Don’t make this post on the warrior forum XD

warrior changes look awesome! I might dust off nakoda for a round or two next week.

banners AND sigils buffed? my banner/bleed build might be back in action!

nakoda.4213:

warrior changes look awesome! I might dust off nakoda for a round or two next week.

banners AND sigils buffed? my banner/bleed build might be back in action!

uh… i think someone’s lost here o.o

one thing that you can always count on is that the nak is fully aware of where he is and what he is doing.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I don’t understand. Engineer is probably the best class in the game currently. Either that or Guardian, but it’s definitely up there. Sustained DPS, burst DPS, survivability, support, mobility; they’re top tier in pretty much every category and they don’t even have to work for it. They’re like the easiest class to play and the strongest.

And you want buffs.

Okay.

100% agreed on most everything, but Engineer is definitely not the easiest class to play. A Static Discharge burst rotation:

Utility Goggles -> Analyze -> Surprise Shot -> Jump Shot -> Lay Mine Field -> Blunderbuss -> Detonate Mine Field -> Overcharged Shot -> Surprise Shot again -> Whatever

A Greatsword Warrior burst rotation:

100 Blades

Exactly my point (well one of them) it takes three times at least the moves on the engineer to do what other classes can do without blinking and that isn’t an improvement nor is it a hysteria there’s quite a few things wrong, and it’s sad that they want to make this class a clown class and not give it the respect it deserves.

But that’s okay folks keep living in your fantasy that everythings fine and nothings wrong with it, the rest of us will continue to live in reality and understand that engineer as well as the other two weakest classes have been ignored.

Remillard.8691:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think a lot of it is self-inflicted hysteria.

Whatever gave you that impression? ;-)

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Engineer is probably the best class in the game currently.

tigirius.9014:

This actually illustrates perfectly the problems with the class.

As so often is the case, the truth is somewhere in the middle… I personally tend to think we’re closer to the “pretty much okay, few things need tweaking” rather than the sky is falling, but I’m not going to blow rainbows up anyone’s kitten either.

Way too many on these forums want us all to believe that everything is rainbows and butterflies, nothings wrong here folks it’s all our imagination just like the loot problems were right? yeah, keep on thinking that (not you Remillard) because we should all believe that pigeonholing and nerfs almost every single patch is normal right? smh just amazes me so many people can completely miss the point and remain in denial over the problems and yes it’s a game but I as a customer expect to get what was promised me when i pay for something and this is definitely NOT what they said combat would be like for all classes on their main page.

I’ve found my eng to be the best for most PvE situations. I run a mix of PVT, knights, etc. atm. My atk is over 3k and my armor is over 2800. Like the OP, I use FT/rifle and elixirs/TK/bombs, only with 30/0/30/0/10 traits. This setup has high survivilability, medium sustained dps (over 1k crit with rifle auto-atk), medium cond damage (bleeds mostly). I’ve run CoF with only minor issues, and in WvW, I can survive getting chased by some classes (depending on the situation-hard to run from a thief). I’ve found I can handle up to 5 regular mobs or 2 vets in PvE without dying, and I was exploring Orr at lvl 68 (got to Straits at 63).
I’ve found my lvl 78 guardian has a higher dps but it’s not as easy to run around in PvE (again, depend on the situation and zone). Possibly the lower base hps affects this.
Just throwing this out there.

there are great differences between “rainbows and butterflies” and “everything we have is broken”.