Guild Wars 2

Create a Gyro kit and put 5 Gyros out of the 6 on there (either all utility gyros and the elite or all utility gyros and the heal).

To not make this kit to strong, give them shared cooldowns/partly shared cooldowns if you have spells in your other non-weapon slots.

The less spells are selected in the non-weapon slots, the less cooldown is shared.
Make the toolbelt skill the Gyro that you have pressed (if all other slots are occupied with other spells).

You will get Gyro toolbelt skills on the empty toolbelt slots if you choose to go for empty non-weapon slots.
This way, people who want to go full gyro, can still do it the old way
and people who dont, get to enjoy scrapper utility slots that arent all gyro.
It still needs to be worked out a tad more but this is the general idea.

Now make a cool new spell(s)/kit(s) for Scrapper, because the Gyros have been merged into a Gyro kit. So we need some extra Scrapper specific stuff.

I would be for some cool lightning utility spell or kit.
Firing lightning bolts and throwing pieces of scrap metal and such.

What do you think of this?

EDIT:
Maybe me suggesting a gyro kit like this was not the way to go.

It is not likely to happen I think, because it would be complicated to implement with the different shared cooldowns (new mechanics) and with which toolbelt will be displayed and such.
Also complicated for new players to understand.

Some changes like number tweaking would be more likely to be heard and implemented.

It was interesting to read some of your stuff,
but I am gonna try make a thread from a different angle (with mostly number changes).

Freel free to continue in here though.

That’s not gonna solve the fundamental problem which is the AI for the gyro’s is broken/ bugged in so many ways. And that some of the gyro’s are severely underwhelming. The function gyro being one of them. They have to be reworked in some way, to not rely so heavily on the AI. But that seems unlikely

I’m not keen on this idea for one primary reason, the gyro-toolbelts generally range from ok to actually good. If they ditched the gyros (which were a dreadful idea that nobody who understood the game engine’s limitiations would seriously have tried to put into the game, if they’d actually spent any time thinking about it) and replaced them with something actually useful, the toolbelts could be left intact and we’d have a utility line that wasn’t completely awful. Which would be nice. But no, the AI is one of the main problems. Having them in a kit form, wouldn’t make the gyro’s any less unreliable.

Funny how engi is now the only class that has two kind of the same utility after HoT. Every other class got something they didn’t have before but engi gets another Ai set. Can you imagine how annoyed the other classes would be if they got another set of utils they already had and were already underperforming? If reaper got a second set of corruptions? If druid got a second set of shouts or spirits? If Dragon Hunter got a second set of spirit weapons?

It’s ok for Scrapper though.

wolfyrik.2017:

I’m not keen on this idea for one primary reason, the gyro-toolbelts generally range from ok to actually good. If they ditched the gyros (which were a dreadful idea that nobody who understood the game engine’s limitiations would seriously have tried to put into the game, if they’d actually spent any time thinking about it) and replaced them with something actually useful, the toolbelts could be left intact and we’d have a utility line that wasn’t completely awful. Which would be nice. But no, the AI is one of the main problems. Having them in a kit form, wouldn’t make the gyro’s any less unreliable.

Funny how engi is now the only class that has two kind of the same utility after HoT. Every other class got something they didn’t have before but engi gets another Ai set. Can you imagine how annoyed the other classes would be if they got another set of utils they already had and were already underperforming? If reaper got a second set of corruptions? If druid got a second set of shouts or spirits? If Dragon Hunter got a second set of spirit weapons?

It’s ok for Scrapper though.

If I understand you right, to sum it up, you are saying, you are against the idea because you want the gyros gone completely and replaced with something?
The reasons therefore are they are just a second Ai set and they are not reliable enough.

?

ummmm.. yes.

That and the toolbelts. Some are fine other can be improved a little, they should be attached to a new utility set. One that isn’t an Ai.

wolfyrik.2017:

ummmm.. yes.

That and the toolbelts. Some are fine other can be improved a little, they should be attached to a new utility set. One that isn’t an Ai.

Fair enough.

The Gyros could possibly be changed in being more cosmetic than Ai. Floating above our heads and thus moving in sync with us, just as fast as we are. If that is possible.
With the exception of function Gyro.

Or just removed completely as you say and replaced with something else.

Gyros are pretty useful. Bulwark is great for the reflects on the toolbelt, and Blast’s is decent for messing around with. Med gyro is actually a great healing skill, it just is outclassed by the healing turret (like every other healing skill…). Sneak is phenomenal, even if it has trouble keeping up with you sometimes, and the function gyro is awesome. On top of that, too, the daze on their secondary use is really strong in PvP if you deploy it right. We aren’t going to get a fundamental change to how gyros work, but we can adjust numbers or small things about them. And hopefully make them follow more closely, but that’s a bigger change than I think we can expect right now.

The biggest issues I see are that (1) purge is borderline useless with how slowly it cleanses, and (2) shredder making whirl finishers is terrible, because whirl finishers are really weak. They also both have pretty terrible toolbelt skills (Blast does too, to be fair, since it’s just a copy-paste of Slick Shoes’), that could definitely be cranked up.

If purge pulsed like a slower Well of Power that would actually be pretty solid; even better would be if it pulsed like a Well of Corruption, because our boon stripping is so lackluster. If it were a slower pulsing, moving Well of Corruption on top of a moving poison cloud, that’d be halfway decent. Shredder should just follow you instead of have ground targeting, and the lightning field should do damage and maybe even apply vulnerability (with a smaller field) instead of just… Exist.

I’d also like to see Blast get an entirely new toolbelt, SINCE WE ALREADY HAVE THAT TOOLBELT ON ANOTHER SKILL, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. A fire field would be great, but we already have two and ANet doesn’t like handing those out. I can only dream of an Earthquake effect for another blast finisher…

PWNtrooper.8617:

Gyro’s toolbelts are pretty useful.

fix’d

should have made em work like mantras.

Charge it= deploy a gyro that visually follows you arround just for eyecandy and visual cue that the engi got a gyro out and ready to work.

Cast it= Gyro does gyro stuff

Could even mix that mantra idea up and make a hybrid between sigils and mantras by having a charged\deployed gyro do a helpfull passive effect. Such as…

-Medic: Heals the scrapper slowly overtime and gives protection at a critical hit on the scrapper with an ICD, if used it does a moderate aoe heal without any field then explodes like it does now.

-Purge: removes 1 condition all few seconds and converts it to 1 stack of its contrary boon (like cripple becomes swiftness and weakness might), if used it removes all conditions of the scrapper and maybe up to 3 of allies arround the scrapper and then explodes

-Shredder: does 1 whirl finisher every second with no direct damage, if used it acts like the thief dagger storm with drastically reduced damage that and stays directly over the scrapper like a sort of aura of thorns..if that makes sence…and then explodes once its done.

-Blast: buffs the scrapper´s attack a little with a passive effect, if used it does its charge attack and becomes a minion to counter it.

-Bulwark: reduces the scrapper´s incoming damage by 10%, if used it reduces it by 50% for a short period of time and then explodes.

-Sneak: adds a passive movement speed bonus on the scrapper, if used it does its stealth thing and becomes a minion to be attackable and destroyable for counterplay

Toolbelts remain the same…cept maybe purge´s… that could pulse resistance like the medic´s does protection if you stand on its field.

As for the mechanic.. simple. Make it a hybrid between initiative and energy.
Charges over time… can be used at will as long as there is enough “fuel” available with an F6. Cyrcles arround you like rev hammers and pulses protection or stability while dealing some minor damage if it passes an enemie in “normal mode”, revives an ally if targeted and at full fuel and stomps an enemie if targeted at full fuel. If the gyro is out the “fuel regeneration” stops to avoid its permanently out. Also to regenerate the full fuel deal takes the same time it does now to use the mechanic in the first place

There. Melee friendly gyros that are technically “sigil-mantras” and mechanic that still got its utility intact, only relies on a.i where it really is needed for counterplay and brings two things to the engi that the class does not got atm. Thats how id do it.. but then again what do i know…im just some guy..

Pride.1734:

PWNtrooper.8617:

Gyro’s toolbelts are pretty useful.

fix’d

For the most part I agree with you, yeah, but part of the usefulness of any skill is that half of it is a toolbelt skill. Some skills aren’t useful at all (couple elixirs I could name, turrets…), but Bulwark, Medic, Stealth are solid all around. Bulwark and Medic in particular because they can be activated even when you’re getting beat on or using another skill.

ANet seems like they phoned it in on the effects of a couple gyros, but I have to honestly say that at this point nothing drastic is going to change about them; they won’t get a new mechanic, they won’t become a kit, they won’t suddenly start attacking things…. They’re set how they are. I’m not too optimistic about anything but some numbers changing.

Bulwark needs to work like its cousins Phantasmal Defender and “rise”. That is i would be very happy if the damage was divided between me and the gyro. In a build with toughness it takes around 3X as much damage as it should. This is the primary reason it absolutely explodes even from low pressure. PD and rise both divides the damage as it should (even split) while bulwark divides it before it calculates it fully, meaning armor, toughness and protection is ignored and instead the armor level of the gyro is used to calculate how much damage it takes (so instead of 50/50 its 50/150 etc) which is hilarious since the “tanky” “bulwark” gyro got about the same armor as i did when i took of my armor and used zero toughness on a level 80 character. The low armor on the gyro was done so as to not make it “not too oppressive in 1vs1”and make it squishy if focused which backfires greatly as it also affects its role as a damage sponge. As of now its more of a super speed battery if traited by a grandmaster that essentially only gives super speed and lightning fields and a nice reflect.

PWNtrooper.8617:

Gyros are pretty useful…….

Nice post. I too agree with your assessment of the 4 Gyro’s that you like, and I run with all 4 in a P/P + Rock Boots + Medic, Blast, Bulwark and Sneak Gryro build.

I do like Blast Gyro’s Tool Belt skill, however. It’s a good stun break and, coupled with Rapid Regeneration, I can proc about 1,000 to 1,200 heal as well.

Soon.5240:

PWNtrooper.8617:

Gyros are pretty useful…….

I do like Blast Gyro’s Tool Belt skill, however. It’s a good stun break and, coupled with Rapid Regeneration, I can proc about 1,000 to 1,200 heal as well.

It’s not a bad toolbelt, it’s just unimaginative. It’s the Slick Shoes TB with a shorter Superspeed time, and a cast time for some reason, but grants it to allies (who couldn’t care less most of the time), though the shorter uptime means about 830-some less healing if you’re traited for it. Which is actually quite a bit. If I were going to essentially copy any toolbelt, and if I really wanted a stun breaker for the gyro, I’d take the one from Thumper Turret. Makes so much more sense thematically (y’know, because explosions) and would actually be useful, considering no gyros give a blast finisher and Engineer has to be pretty deliberate to get them (EG 4, Bomb Kit TB, Rocket Boots, shield 4 [lol] and… turrets…). What I’d really like to see is something more interesting altogether, like Unsteady Ground or a “magnetic” gap-closer to complement the knockback, but if we’re in copy-paste mode just give me the Thumper toolbelt[who even uses the Thumper? Would anyone miss it if it were gone? Furreal though. And shield 4 should have a trait that lets it pull all of your turrets within 1200 to you, like ye olde Ritualist skill from EotN. Just saying]

Also, I know I said this in another thread, but I think if Shredder Gyro were redesigned to work like the Jalis hammers it’d be wicked sweet. Pairs up really nicely with what scrapper is trying to do, and if it had a sufficiently short uptime (like 3-5 seconds) and less damage reduction than the actual Jalis skill it’d be a great cooldown to pop right before a Rocket Charge. The toolbelt on it can stick, I guess, but it really needs to do something more than just be a lightning field. Vulnerability, Blind, Swiftness… Whirl finishers are lame, and although I like the idea behind the Shredder Gyro as it stands, it’s too weak. Even if numbers were adjusted it’s really easy to avoid, and whirl finishers are dumb. Besides, imagine charging in with your hammer and a swarm of little gyros swirling around you, knocking noggins, reducing condition damage… Sign me up.

If we’re super sold on Purge being a defensive/support gyro, (1) it should be a mobile, slower pulsing Well of Power, because just cleansing a condition every two seconds is WEAK, OR (2) it should pulse Resistance. Honestly, ANet did a poor job of spreading out Slow, Resistance, and Taunt to existing classes, and I’d love to see Engineer get Resistance from the Purge Gyro. Better yet, I dunno, replace its lame poison field toolbelt with something that gives a few seconds of Resistance. I’d really like to see Purge just be a slow boon strip/converter, like a mobile Well of Corruption, since even though Engineers aren’t great at removing conditions from themselves, we have no ability to remove boons. And right now, boons are the name of the game in PvP, and some PvE creatures almost require some boon stripping. It’d be a really sweet utility if the gyro itself were a slow-pulsing Well of Corruption and its toolbelt gave 3 seconds of Resistance on a 15-second cooldown.

Really now. Come on ANet. I know if we give Engineer too much it’ll be too strong, but part of the appeal of the class should be that it can do just about anything you want it to, albeit in a weaker or more roundabout way than a class dedicated to it. We can’t boon strip, we can’t apply resistance, we can’t Taunt (could be cool on Net Turret, jus’sayin’), we can’t slow (pistol 5 would love this, because glue is sticky yo), but we have a handful of utilities/toolbelt skills that are never used that would love some of this stuff, and our gyros especially lack a lot of the new stuff that HoT came out with. Or some updates at least. But really: why doesn’t Purge Gyro give resistance somehow?! Who thought a stationary whirl finisher that deals no damage on its own with a toolbelt that’s JUST A LIGHTNING FIELD was a radical concept, in the same expansion that gave out frikkin’ time-warp junk to Mesmers?! What am I expected to do with a shield when hammer can REFLECT AND BLOCK with SHORTER COOLDOWNS, WHILE DOING DAMAGE!? And why do half of the Scrapper traits do jack-nothing?! Superspeed isn’t that cool. It really isn’t, and it isn’t something to base most of a traitline off of. A fair chunk of Scrapper is giving you bonuses for reviving an ally or stomping an enemy—something you ideally never do, and something that never happens in PvE, respectively—and it just makes me sad.

Nnnnngggggggg……

Maybe me suggesting a gyro kit like this was not the way to go.

It is not likely to happen I think, because it would be complicated to implement with the different shared cooldowns (new mechanics) and with which toolbelt will be displayed and such.
Also complicated for new players to understand.

Some changes like number tweaking would be more likely to be heard and implemented.

It was interesting to read some of your stuff,
but I am gonna try make a thread from a different angle (with mostly number changes).

Freel free to continue in here though.

I love Gyros, especially with steak.