Guild Wars 2

I’m curious if it’s just me, but when the Scrapper was first revealed given the language used, was anyone else expecting the Gyros to run off a new resource bar in a similar style to Revenants & the toggleable Herald auras (and to a lesser extent Thieves & Initiative) rather the standard CD and flat duration we have for them now?

So a slowly regenning bar that drained per Gyro, allowing you to choose between 1 constantly or for a long duration, and multiples out for a shorter time.

I just feel it’s a missed opportunity to do something a bit more interesting and allow for more varied balance tweaks in the long run, given different Gyros could have had different drain rates dependent on what they do/how hard they hit etc etc. Could have also opened the door to have had traits that helped the Fuel bar regen in certain circumstances too (dodges, use of detonations etc)

well.. after reading “fuel system” i thought we get upkeep skills like the rev spec… but nope, kitten y minions who dont work proper it is

Yeah I was thinking about something similar.

Have a fuel bar above your dodge one. Have it fill while you have no gyro’s out but have it decrease when you have 1 or more gyros. Making it empty faster with multiple gyros out. (like +20% fuel consumption / gyro or something.)

I was also thinking abou giving the trait Full Salvo (or replacing Decisive Renown and make it a major adept trait, swapping it with Shocking Speed) an extra thing.
Posted it somewhere in the feedback topic as well.

Make it reduce the cooldown of the Gyros depending on how much fuel is left when you destroy your Gyro.
+75% Fuel left: 30% cooldown reduction.
+50% Fuel left: 20% cooldown reduction
+25% Fuel left: 10% cooldown reduction.

So many opportunities to do something with the "Fuel’ but nope. We can only hope.

we are 3 weeks away from HoT… you can drop the hope and brace for impact by this point… no nice things this time, we can only hope they atleast get the hammer and traits polished…if even that. We all know how engi issues are dealt with…

I figured I’d rather try and get discussion on it, to show there’s some interest in an overhaul NOW than sit here going “I don’t like it and there’ll be no change so whatever” and then them still be not great after launch and even less likely to get the overhaul that’d make them so much more interesting. I did post something similar in the feedback thread, but I don’t think many people will trawl through every post in it

Given Scrapper is one of the last to be released it may mean they’re more open to a possible big tweak now and take the risk, given as it stands there is very little reason to take Gyros over either a FT kit and elixirs, or other kit/turret combos.

See I quite like the implementation Glenndevis suggested, which is more specific alongside an interesting trait idea to complement it.

Well of course it would be nice to get this mess fixed… but we got a 3 year record that shows that drastic fixes like this are something engineers never got. Im fully aware that this is pessimistic but just look at the class. We just now got the magnet fixed and it still doesnt work proper. Look at the turrets… how long where the hitboxes broken? Kit visuals? How long? 2,5 years to get the backpieces away and still are not up to par with other classes in visual eyecandy…not even if they add an entire kit, look at the mortar and tell me this looks good. Bomb kit restoration? How long did that need and it “only” was in numbers not mechanics? And so…soooo much more. To re-work an entire mechanic before HoT hits? This is certainly out of question…not with the “dedication” a-net got if it comes to engineer issues…if it would be roy with the revenant my look at things would be completely different cause he and his team actually work extremely fast on the class and it went from a zero to hero in a rather short period of time…just compare beta weekend 1 and weekend 2 and 3, that was a 180 if i ever saw it.

Of course it would be amazing to get something like glenndevis suggested… id embrace this without any complains like most of the already suggested mechanic re-works cause this is actually awesome and cool…but like i said.. im very pessimistic at this point. Ireno and his team also got the druid…and even if it got its kinks its certainly the spec that got more attention in development then we here…so yea.

I dont want to be the pessimist here.. specially not with engineer beeing my favourite class… but the odds are against us here… Made myself sad now

Basaltface.2786:

Well of course it would be nice to get this mess fixed… but we got a 3 year record that shows that drastic fixes like this are something engineers never got. Im fully aware that this is pessimistic but just look at the class. We just now got the magnet fixed and it still doesnt work proper. Look at the turrets… how long where the hitboxes broken? Kit visuals? How long? 2,5 years to get the backpieces away and still are not up to par with other classes in visual eyecandy…not even if they add an entire kit, look at the mortar and tell me this looks good. Bomb kit restoration? How long did that need and it “only” was in numbers not mechanics? And so…soooo much more. To re-work an entire mechanic before HoT hits? This is certainly out of question…not with the “dedication” a-net got if it comes to engineer issues…if it would be roy with the revenant my look at things would be completely different cause he and his team actually work extremely fast on the class and it went from a zero to hero in a rather short period of time…just compare beta weekend 1 and weekend 2 and 3, that was a 180 if i ever saw it.

Of course it would be amazing to get something like glenndevis suggested… id embrace this without any complains like most of the already suggested mechanic re-works cause this is actually awesome and cool…but like i said.. im very pessimistic at this point. Ireno and his team also got the druid…and even if it got its kinks its certainly the spec that got more attention in development then we here…so yea.

I dont want to be the pessimist here.. specially not with engineer beeing my favourite class… but the odds are against us here… Made myself sad now

I think it is more productive to improve the current vision that A-Net has for the class rather than redesign it from scratch.

It is MUCH too late for such complex mechanic changes. Even with all the feedback that suggests that this is exactly what they should consider.

Expecting drastic changes is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Even though I really doubt Anet will do something about the fuel thing. I sure as hell hope they at least have the staff polished and fix Gyros to a state where they’re actually useful.

Then I’ll be happy.

Yea it’s sad and wasted potential to not have a fuel bar. So much potential … all wasted …

Seems a lot of stuff was cut at the last minute. Check Rocket Charge from trailer and now.

ATM scrapper feels like ti was done at the last minute.

lorddarkflare.9186:

I think it is more productive to improve the current vision that A-Net has for the class rather than redesign it from scratch.

It is MUCH too late for such complex mechanic changes. Even with all the feedback that suggests that this is exactly what they should consider.

Expecting drastic changes is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Not only is it setting yourself up for disappointment, but it takes attention and time away from actionable feedback. I feel like there’s a lot of feedback coming through that is just soaking up time for Irenio and the team to read that has no chance of being implemented.

Definitely express your displeasure, and say it should have worked another way if that’s what you think. I certainly do, I think Gyros in their current state are lame but there’s no point in me coming up with a redesign for them. I just think writing out these long essays on completely reworking mechanics and adding UI elements is not helping anyone. It’s not constructive feedback, they’re not going to do it even if they wanted to.

At this point I think the best thing we can do is try to tweak numbers on existing Gyros and possibly some sort of buff for inactive Function Gyros like Chaith’s post. I very much doubt suggesting a full rework or adding in a fuel mechanic is helpful to anyone.

They should care for feedback to begin with. That’s the major issue.
And we already know that they don’t – else we wouldn’t have gyros as flying-turret alikes to begin with.
It isn’t like people hadn’t already predicted what it would have happened if they gave us yet again AI minions. The failure of turrets is evident to everyone – the only way to get something out of them is by using them as everything but turrets.
And yet they did again the same errors – and even new ones, of course.
They could have been signet-like skills, they could have been upkeep skills, they could have even been shout-like skills, they could have been anything that could have been reliable and, essentially, actually working.
Instead, we have yet others unreliable, fragile AI minions.

Yeah, I definitely agree that this is the right time to tell them what we’d like to see. It can’t be that complicated, because they already have the system in place for both Druid and Herald. Here’s what I wrote in the BWE feedback thread on my idea for Fuel:

Idea for making Gyros as a utility more engaging! (Unique resource mechanic similar to Herald)

Alrighty, I’ve spent a good bit of time on the beta, and I have to agree with the many engineers that claim Gyros, in their current form, are clunky and don’t provide much to the engineer in comparison with kits. Especially when you factor in the AI wandering off, their low HP and getting clobbered easily by a light breeze, and the fact that absolutely NONE of the gyros insult you like Wheatley from Portal 2. (Egregious!)

I have a thought to overhaul them, to make them a unique system that can actually use a fuel bar. This would function similarly to the Revenant’s elite spec, Herald, and the aspect upkeep costs. Please let me know what you think, because I would love to have some new gameplay come out of the Scrapper elite specialization’s new utilities.

SECONDARY RESOURCE: Fuel (30) Located in a bar above the endurance bar, similar to the Druid Celestial Avatar bar. Fuel regenerates at a rate of 1 per second when drones are active, and 3 per second when no drones are active.

Gyro utility line: No longer targetable, each drone has a fuel cost that is drained per second in order to keep the drone afloat at your side. Each drone is merely a cosmetic effect that floats around your character and grants bonus effects to you directly, which fits in perfectly with the melee style of Scrapper combat. All drones have a 30 second cooldown that begins when the drone is launched. You may detonate drones early using the skill button again, and when you run out of fuel any active Gyros detonate. The current toolbelt skills are already pretty awesome, and I think they would fit well with this design.

Medic Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a medic gyro that circles you and heals nearby allies. (Same stats as current)

Blast Gyro – 2 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Blast Gyro that circles you, occasionally launching darts at your target.
A smaller (targetable) kamikaze gyro is then launched that flies toward your target, functioning like a weaker version of the current Blast Gyro. It also plays “charge” on a poorly tuned trumpet.

Bulwark Gyro – 1 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Bulwark Gyro that circles you, granting Watchful Eye to nearby allies. This absorbs 50% of the incoming damage allies receive, but at a cost of 1 additional fuel for every 1000 damage absorbed. (No idea if this is enough, or too much absorption, because I am busy thinking about soup)

Purge Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Purge Gyro that encircles you and cleanses 2 conditions from all nearby allies every 3 seconds. (600 Radius around you)

Shredder Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Shredder Gyro that damages enemies in a radius around you, and constantly activates whirl combo finishers.

Sneak Gyro – 5 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a sneak gyro to provide stealth to nearby allies. Just like the current implementation, the shredder will still be visible to PVP players, revealing the general location of the stealthed characters.

Alrighty, let me know what you think! I’d love to hear feedback; if you believe this system would help the utilities get some love, or if you just really like white chocolate chip macadamia nut cookies.

P.S.Another suggestion by Chaith would be a fantastic to add Function Gyro… functionality. You can find that here (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Chaith-s-Idea-for-Robust-Scrapper-Identity/first#content), which is an amazing idea to make the Function Gyro more engaging in all game modes.

How about that we would get a “gyroswap” as an elite mechanics? It would be accessible only with enough fuel that we would acquire by attacking. It would replace utilities with gyros for some time. Fuel would deplete in time and by using the gyros.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Basaltface.2786:

Well of course it would be nice to get this mess fixed… but we got a 3 year record that shows that drastic fixes like this are something engineers never got. Im fully aware that this is pessimistic but just look at the class. We just now got the magnet fixed and it still doesnt work proper. Look at the turrets… how long where the hitboxes broken? Kit visuals? How long? 2,5 years to get the backpieces away and still are not up to par with other classes in visual eyecandy…not even if they add an entire kit, look at the mortar and tell me this looks good. Bomb kit restoration? How long did that need and it “only” was in numbers not mechanics? And so…soooo much more. To re-work an entire mechanic before HoT hits? This is certainly out of question…not with the “dedication” a-net got if it comes to engineer issues…if it would be roy with the revenant my look at things would be completely different cause he and his team actually work extremely fast on the class and it went from a zero to hero in a rather short period of time…just compare beta weekend 1 and weekend 2 and 3, that was a 180 if i ever saw it.

Of course it would be amazing to get something like glenndevis suggested… id embrace this without any complains like most of the already suggested mechanic re-works cause this is actually awesome and cool…but like i said.. im very pessimistic at this point. Ireno and his team also got the druid…and even if it got its kinks its certainly the spec that got more attention in development then we here…so yea.

I dont want to be the pessimist here.. specially not with engineer beeing my favourite class… but the odds are against us here… Made myself sad now

I think it is more productive to improve the current vision that A-Net has for the class rather than redesign it from scratch.

It is MUCH too late for such complex mechanic changes. Even with all the feedback that suggests that this is exactly what they should consider.

Expecting drastic changes is setting yourself up for disappointment.

With you on this one. Though they should start working on a mechanic change now for a later overhaul.

In the short term:
- Lock gyros to player character
- Copy boons from player to gyros
- Give them a base toughness, vitality and maybe make them uncritable.

In the long term:
- Overhaul class mechanic to utilize a fuel system with gyros
- In light of class mechanic overhaul, remove function gyro

An actual fuel system would have been amazing. It’s actually what I initially hoped for. Something like warrior banners or pre-nerf ranger spirits, centered around you, but with energy costs.

Too bad that never became a thing.

leviathan.2148:

How about that we would get a “gyroswap” as an elite mechanics? It would be accessible only with enough fuel that we would acquire by attacking. It would replace utilities with gyros for some time. Fuel would deplete in time and by using the gyros.

This is a great idea, gyros are situational and best and this would allow you to use them when the situation demands it. This means you can still use kits/elixirs/gadgets etc., and equip gyros on the swap. I wouldn’t even mind if they replaced the toolbelt for this! So much potential with the fuel system however none of it was implemented….

Gyro fuel can’t melt druid beams