Guild Wars 2

Seriously, there is a real reason that turrets arent used in PvP, making mobile turrets wont make them any better, they will still die before being usefull.

Please rethink this -.-"

Having your entire elite specs utility being killable before it does anything of use is not fun, its really bad design.

Gyros are total crap. Completly useless crap. Shredder gyro is only decent imo.

The function gyro has 30 second cooldown, doesn’t affect gathering etc The first two minors are basically worthless in PvE afterall.

At the moment I think the usability has once again been sacrificed for the ‘coolness’ factor.

EDIT: Isn’t bulwark gyro a direct upgrade to the Phantasmal Defender? Instant cast, can operate at range has on-demand missile reflection. Of course will depend on the gyro hp, but still could be handy. 50% max uptime, but any time Defender is used it’ll likely not survive long anyway, so max uptime might be completely meaningless.

I did not care for the gyros, but the ‘F’ skills I did like a lot… fields go a looong way with this elite spec. But yeah, overall I expected more out of the gyros.

How are Gyros not supposed to be like Spirit Weapons again?

Chaba.5410:

How are Gyros not supposed to be like Spirit Weapons again?

They are improved spirit weapons/mesmer illusion utilities.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Chaba.5410:

How are Gyros not supposed to be like Spirit Weapons again?

They are improved spirit weapons/mesmer illusion utilities.

None of which have any business in a melee role/playstyle.

To be honest due to their duration, the gryos feel more like a cross between the old mobile ranger spirits and a necromancer minion, since they provide various utility but can only be up for about 50% of the time or less (ranger spirits were limited by their duration AND health), which was a huge downside. They’d only be viable if just their duration, and not their health mattered, but they want to give a sense of counterplay (for obvious reasons considering the elite).

I think the stealth gyro could be good since the duration rule doesn’t really apply to it and it seems to give perma-stealth (missed livestream so I read tooltips on dulfy) and revealed is strong. But moa could be stronger, and elixir S already gives all of the stealth that you’ll probably need. Being visible and destructable is a downside for sneaking around, but counterplay like that is needed to make it fair. The purge gyro doesn’t seem that bad to me either, but the heal, and bulwark are probably not going to be considered at all.

I think scrapper in general will be used because its traits are awesome, while most of base engi traits that aren’t in alchemy are pretty bad compared to other professions. In particular the function gyro and stability access and things like adaptive armor and super speed will be good to have for pvp, its just a matter of finding the right combination of abilities since many are quite synergistic., although the super speed line will be comparatively weak compared to stability until the super speed cap is removed. The function gryo trait is also amazing pvp utility as well.

The hammer looks strong (and fast for a hammer), but like most elite spec weapons during the first beta it will probably feel really weak and undertuned and will have to have its damage brought up to be competitive. I like what I see so far, but its competing with rifle that gives ranged CC and can facilitate burst combos, even on tanky builds. Hammer will beat it in the AoE department obviously, but will that be enough to justify its existence? Especially when things like grenade kit give you all the cleave pressure you need? Thats what I’m on the fence about.

you guys need to take a look at the thief board, what you think is crap for pvp is giving us a headache at the moment. the reveal stealth alone counters two classes and your gyro doesn’t have to be out -_-

Vermagus.7804:

you guys need to take a look at the thief board, what you think is crap for pvp is giving us a headache at the moment. the reveal stealth alone counters two classes and your gyro doesn’t have to be out -_-

it’s not like engineer had problems vs thieves anyhow.

HP on gyros… can’t wait to see them die after flying thru ring of fire.

Did some looking at the POI, bulwark gyro has about 13k hp. im assuming the rest have about 8-9k. A little weak yeah, but the only 2 i see myself using are stealth and bulwark anyways. Maybe blast gyro for daze/knockback.

Having Hp doesnt make it useless, wth.

Turrets are dps adders and dont move, theres a reason they arent used much.

Gyros move and offer utility as well as Super speed on death + a suicide bomber mode. Please just stop.

TsukuZankaze.6951:

Did some looking at the POI, bulwark gyro has about 13k hp. im assuming the rest have about 8-9k. A little weak yeah, but the only 2 i see myself using are stealth and bulwark anyways. Maybe blast gyro for daze/knockback.

had same numbers by my watching. It’s kind of really makes them useless. Unless gyro has 50k hp with their mechanics in team fights of any kind it becomes uber bad.

liking the mechanics arround gyro, but health….not even 30k makes it just useless minion. taking in account that this mechanism is not even constantly attacking like other minions has it cds and follows it’s own ideas what to do mostly.

it may be balanced with it’s strong utility use and pretty short cd etc…but we should try it to say smth at least close to truth

choovanski.5462:

it’s not like engineer had problems vs thieves anyhow.

HP on gyros… can’t wait to see them die after flying thru ring of fire.

Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch©
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18XFYTY8MKQZRVDKhNvCKXDWKmVggj0JbQH25WBIIboM/pub#h.3qbvrg7fq7kg

TBH most of gyros are crap, you are going to tale this spec cause the traits

Krysard.1364:

TBH most of gyros are crap, you are going to tale this spec cause the traits

you couldn’t expect much of gyros. Most of new elite spec suck on skills on right side of health bar and mostly seen viable at this point because of the traits and some cool F or weapon skills.

Though. minor trait gyro – BEAST, stab stomp 8s stab to both or revive your allie. Stealth gyro is decent, healinggyro – doesn’t seem to be any good in my eyes. others..need to test in field more and see how it goes with other lines/skills.

Hvaran.6327:

Krysard.1364:

TBH most of gyros are crap, you are going to tale this spec cause the traits

you couldn’t expect much of gyros. Most of new elite spec suck on skills on right side of health bar and mostly seen viable at this point because of the traits and some cool F or weapon skills.

Though. minor trait gyro – BEAST, stab stomp 8s stab to both or revive your allie. Stealth gyro is decent, healinggyro – doesn’t seem to be any good in my eyes. others..need to test in field more and see how it goes with other lines/skills.

Yeh, I think the only viable gyro is the elite, the other are worst than what we have right now

iKeostuKen.2738:

Having Hp doesnt make it useless, wth.

Turrets are dps adders and dont move, theres a reason they arent used much.

Gyros move and offer utility as well as Super speed on death + a suicide bomber mode. Please just stop.

It literally makes it useless. Utility? Mediocre at best and again stops once it dies.

Super speed? For what? It can’t even counter Chilled. Seriously why are some people buying into this ‘Super Speed’ propaganda? Anet makes it sound so hype like it’s the next big thing but it’s not. It’s just a better form of swiftness and that’s it. If it had +100% movement so it can counter cripple and chilled then maybe.

Turrets already had a suicide mode with knockback with Explosives trait line. Nothing new here. Only difference is that it moves. That is a double edged sword at best, at least we could use strategic placement of turrets.

As a Mesmer, it’s amusing and vindicating to add yet another class to the “Why haven’t you guys realised that our minions die in like two seconds in PvE yet?” choir. Unlike Mesmers, though, at least your DPS isn’t totally reliant on Gyros.

Gyros are situational, depending on your needs. Yeah it kinda sucks they have hp. Our job as engi’s at this point is to work around this. Gyros are not meant to be out constantly. They do their job, then you detonate them for daze. Remember if someone decides to melee a gyro and destroy it it dazes them as a result. no one in their right mind is going to focus a gyro in melee without wasting precious stab to ignore the effects. ranged fighters might choose to burst a gyro down, but at what cost? ignoring the scrapper and effectively let it do its job, which is AoE Shutdown and harassment. A Smart engi knows how to use this to our advantage, Got a full glass thief on you? use bulwark gyro to suck up damage and then pops with that daze on the thief, if traited with that nice lightning field for a Rocket Charge combo. bye bye thief. Also if you have a Gyro out, how bout you DONT walk into that nice big red circle, your Gyro will thank you. Use the Gyro’s smart and you wont have problems. We are not MM necros, so we dont get semi-permanent pets, sorry.

Hvaran.6327:

choovanski.5462:

it’s not like engineer had problems vs thieves anyhow.

HP on gyros… can’t wait to see them die after flying thru ring of fire.

Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch©
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18XFYTY8MKQZRVDKhNvCKXDWKmVggj0JbQH25WBIIboM/pub#h.3qbvrg7fq7kg

hey! it’s not like I can stop the gyros flying back and forth thru ring of fire, I don’t have any control over them.

kevvy.5081:

It literally makes it useless. Utility? Mediocre at best and again stops once it dies.

Super speed? For what? It can’t even counter Chilled. Seriously why are some people buying into this ‘Super Speed’ propaganda? Anet makes it sound so hype like it’s the next big thing but it’s not. It’s just a better form of swiftness and that’s it. If it had +100% movement so it can counter cripple and chilled then maybe.

Turrets already had a suicide mode with knockback with Explosives trait line. Nothing new here. Only difference is that it moves. That is a double edged sword at best, at least we could use strategic placement of turrets.

It honestly doesnt but i want you to tell me what a gyro should do if you think these are mediocre.

Superspeed makes sense that it doesnt work well while being chilled or crippled. Take a lesson from flash, if you cant move your legs, you cant achieve maximum speed. But its also 100% that you can give to your allies while in combat or not. And its the fact that they actually found some interesting ways to implement the superspeed mechanic into the class.

Strategic placements? What does that even mean on something that cant move? It can be destroyed from range, atleast gyros can affect in either range. Also, Gyros dont have to be terminated before you could use the tool belt skills.

choovanski.5462:

hey! it’s not like I can stop the gyros flying back and forth thru ring of fire, I don’t have any control over them.

mate, imagine it getting lost in all cc and condis on it while your dodging them. so…..i feel your pain already of trying new gyros in team fight.

Hvaran.6327:

choovanski.5462:

hey! it’s not like I can stop the gyros flying back and forth thru ring of fire, I don’t have any control over them.

mate, imagine it getting lost in all cc and condis on it while your dodging them. so…..i feel your pain already of trying new gyros in team fight.

don’t worry about me. I’ll only use the elite in wvw, so it’s only hypothetical pain.

The only Gyro’s you should be using in WvW zerging are the Elite and Bulwark. all the others are more for PvP.

spvp balanced game guys. Because 13-20k hp pets with no AoE immunity/avoidance worked so well for necro/ranger/guardian/mesmer, they had to repeat the same mistake again.

Rozbuska.5263:

Gyros are total crap. Completly useless crap. Shredder gyro is only decent imo.

Shredder gyro would be the most useless one in pvp.

Zenith.7301:

spvp balanced game guys. Because 13-20k hp pets with no AoE immunity/avoidance worked so well for necro/ranger/guardian/mesmer, they had to repeat the same mistake again.

love how they took notice of all the ‘please no ai’ threads too. they literally gave us what we asked not to have.

Dojo.1867:

Rozbuska.5263:

Gyros are total crap. Completly useless crap. Shredder gyro is only decent imo.

Shredder gyro would be the most useless one in pvp.

Depends on team comp. Dark field + Shredder might be great for lifesteal. Poison bolts from poison field might be ok. Condi builds will love Napalm into Shredder Gyro, literally setting a point on fire in pvp. ethereal with a mesmer might be funny consitering all that confuse stacking. Its a very combo field oriented gyro and as such is situational.

TsukuZankaze.6951:

The only Gyro’s you should be using in WvW zerging are the Elite and Bulwark. all the others are more for PvP.

elite in zerging??? gvg format ok. but random blobbing – mortar stil lrocks.

People the Elite Specialization are built mainly around Raid content. Gyros are awesome for that.

tobascodagama.2961:

As a Mesmer, it’s amusing and vindicating to add yet another class to the “Why haven’t you guys realised that our minions die in like two seconds in PvE yet?” choir. Unlike Mesmers, though, at least your DPS isn’t totally reliant on Gyros.

Huh? Engineer always was in that choir.

Vermagus.7804:

you guys need to take a look at the thief board, what you think is crap for pvp is giving us a headache at the moment. the reveal stealth alone counters two classes and your gyro doesn’t have to be out -_-

If you’re playing PvP, you probably won’t see it much because I can’t see people replacing Supply Crate or Elixir X for it, but who knows. WvW though… enjoy using Revealed Training?

TsukuZankaze.6951:

Dojo.1867:

Rozbuska.5263:

Gyros are total crap. Completly useless crap. Shredder gyro is only decent imo.

Shredder gyro would be the most useless one in pvp.

Depends on team comp. Dark field + Shredder might be great for lifesteal. Poison bolts from poison field might be ok. Condi builds will love Napalm into Shredder Gyro, literally setting a point on fire in pvp. ethereal with a mesmer might be funny consitering all that confuse stacking. Its a very combo field oriented gyro and as such is situational.

I can guaruantee you that this thing will hit close to nothing unless the target stands right on top of it which will rarely happen even on point unless the target is some pve mob.

Not that their AI or targetable system bugs me, no. But they are simply NOT WORTH IT. They are weak and feel like split up kits. Cleanse and heal gyro = healing turret, cleanse and dmg gyro = elixier gun. They are weak and their toolbelts are even worse. Like a poison field alone? Some lousy superspeed alone? NO ANET, that’s by FAR not enough to be considered a solid pick. Only the bulwark has a nice kit, the others are terrible…

Knighthonor.4061:

People the Elite Specialization are built mainly around Raid content. Gyros are awesome for that.

that’s a pretty confident comment considering we know nothing about raids and that minions have been universally crap in pve.

choovanski.5462:

Knighthonor.4061:

People the Elite Specialization are built mainly around Raid content. Gyros are awesome for that.

that’s a pretty confident comment considering we know nothing about raids and that minions have been universally crap in pve.

Doubt anyone knows anything about gyro hp either.

iKeostuKen.2738:

Doubt anyone knows anything about gyro hp either.

We did see in the livestream that the Bulwark gyro recived 4222 dmg then 6885 dmg and dies. So the most durrable of them all only have about 11100 health, and that was made to absorb half of the dmg dealt to your entire group over 15 sec.

I lol-ed the moment they showcase the blast gyro. Like seriously? One time usage that just knockbacks with a long cd, why not just equip a rifle then. Sneak gyro doesn’t hide itself and is actually telling others there is someone there, how is that even stealth any more.. potato logic.

I agree. This gyro is very nice, but the nunbers are terrible, not only on PvP.

My best solution:

Give Gyros an effect called Gyro Armor. Gyro Armor is identical to Endure Pain. Still can be CC’d, damaged/debuffed through conditions, and killed just not super quickly. Anet seems to want them to be able to be killed, so I don’t think we’ll ever get them to be invulnerable but this might work.

I think that you should look at the utilities as a whole with the tool belt skills. Also the hammer looks insane and the traits are good.

But quite honestly, I think the healing turret will be used always as it is simply the best.

Hvaran.6327:

TsukuZankaze.6951:

Did some looking at the POI, bulwark gyro has about 13k hp. im assuming the rest have about 8-9k. A little weak yeah, but the only 2 i see myself using are stealth and bulwark anyways. Maybe blast gyro for daze/knockback.

had same numbers by my watching. It’s kind of really makes them useless. Unless gyro has 50k hp with their mechanics in team fights of any kind it becomes uber bad.

liking the mechanics arround gyro, but health….not even 30k makes it just useless minion. taking in account that this mechanism is not even constantly attacking like other minions has it cds and follows it’s own ideas what to do mostly.

it may be balanced with it’s strong utility use and pretty short cd etc…but we should try it to say smth at least close to truth

choovanski.5462:

it’s not like engineer had problems vs thieves anyhow.

HP on gyros… can’t wait to see them die after flying thru ring of fire.

Walking in and out of Ring of Fire stacks too much (and too long) burn stacks.
Stop walking in and out of it. -Grouch©
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18XFYTY8MKQZRVDKhNvCKXDWKmVggj0JbQH25WBIIboM/pub#h.3qbvrg7fq7kg

30k!? You can’t be serious…

Gyros are very disappointing.

They have very low HP, which makes them unrealiable in both SPVP and WvW zerg situations. The Bulwark Gyro seemed to have around 15k HP which is saddening low for it being a “frontline tank”, which will take both 50% of your (and your party!) damage AND random damage from AoEs around. Medic Gyro also is demoralizyng. In theory it should be a low-paced heal dispenser, in practice it will die before delivering the second HP wave, which is miserably low by the way.
In WvW zerg their low health pools make Gyros useless. Yes, their toolbelt skills are amazing (way better than the Gyros itself, I must say) but let’s face it: Gyros are not viable in WvW-SPVP zerging because they die, thus rendering useless their “active effect”. An engineer, in order to gain access to that amazing Protection/waterfield the medic Gyro’s toolbelt skill provides, has to basically give up its personal heal, cause the medic Gyro would just die before it could actually be of any use.

Stealth Gyro is another troublesome one. While the concept itself is nice (you gain 4s of stealth for each pulse, it pulses 1 time each 3s, so that you can stack stealth and then leave with more than 5s of it) the practical application is stupid. The gyro itself doesn’t even follow properly the scrapper! Check the Twitch recording, when the scrapper runs in a straight forward line the Gyro stays behind and doesn’t provide stealth cause the scrapper’s out of range! Moreover, what’s the point of having it in WvW? It shows where you are, it’s stupid. What’s the point of having it in PvE? The Gyro would take mobs aggro, it’s stupid. It only has some very niche role in SPVP.

I don’t really want to write a WoT before even trying them, but so far they truly are a disappointment.

Frenk.5917:

Gyros are very disappointing.
The Bulwark Gyro seemed to have around 15k HP which is saddening low for it being a “frontline tank”, which will take both 50% of your (and your party!)

As I said earlier in this thread, the streams shows a healthpool of 11100 on the Bulwark.

Are.1326:

Frenk.5917:

Gyros are very disappointing.
The Bulwark Gyro seemed to have around 15k HP which is saddening low for it being a “frontline tank”, which will take both 50% of your (and your party!)

As I said earlier in this thread, the streams shows a healthpool of 11100 on the Bulwark.

Two decent hits on any surrounding ally and it’s down? That’s if it’s not being directly attacked, too.

Well whoopee frickin doo I’ll sure be using it
[/sarcasm]

Exactly the same problem the Mesmer iDefender has. You know, the Phantasm nobody ever uses, not even the free one from an on-block trait. So, good luck with that.

tobascodagama.2961:

Exactly the same problem the Mesmer iDefender has. You know, the Phantasm nobody ever uses, not even the free one from an on-block trait. So, good luck with that.

I defender doesn’t come with a reflection shield…sooo yeah.

Man, don’t even get me started on you guys getting a mobile Feedback.

You know there are quick activation Gyros that get used up as soon as they show up. In that case gyros are far more useful than some of you are willing to admit.