Guild Wars 2

I am trying to decide between these two builds on which to run while in sPVP/WvW.

Builds are as follows.

Thanks to Ostrich Eggs, this is the

HGH Power Build,

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlspSXHxSfF17IyoCdmoHPGlNZfewWtFEC;TkAg0CnoCykjIHrOugk6MEB

It uses the rifle, and grenades, from the limited run time I have with it, I feel it has more consistent damage overall than the SD build, but lacks the true massive burst and is much more of a read and react type build. No consistent combo’s you can use, you just sort of run in and start shooting, and go from there. Has more defense than the SD build with the inclusion of elixir S, grenade #4 when being chased, the RNG stealth off elixir S, which if obtained, is wonderful, and condition clears are not a problem with this build either.

This is my own personal SD burst build

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VV70;2sPFn0l6gSFx0;9;49T;0T4;0589;4157I;5sV2DsV2D5Bx

With the upgrades to the surprise shot with the rifle turret I included it for it’s burst potential. The build overall is very burst oriented, and requires timing and opportunity like any burst build. It can be quite devastating if landed and usually will kill most classes, especially glass cannons, their rarely if ever make it to the end sequence of the burst. Generally I burst in the following order,

Analyze/Throw Wrench/Surprise Shot/Drop Rifle Turret/Overcharge Rifle Turret/Magnet/Prybar/Rifle3/Rifle4/Netshot/Jumpshot/Rifle3(If up)

The builds defense leaves much to be desired. I included the blind shot trait with my rifle to mitigate as much damage as possible, as I did not feel in the setting I run this in, mainly sPVP, that 100 range on my rifle would be greater than my opponent blinded half the time. The build’s condition clear is limited to the #4 on the medkit, and the only true damage mitigation it has is the shield in the tool kit. It does have 1 stun break though with the goggles. Essentially it is a kill or be killed type of build.

That being said, I have run both builds, and both have their positives and negatives, and I can’t make up my mind as to which I should run. That is why I am asking the Engi community for it’s opinion.

O.o

I am currently running Static Discharge. I have played both (and variations thereof) and found conditions and might-stacking builds to be too precarious in PvP, when a single Null Field is truly devastating and can basically render you useless. I’m sure it’d still be great for PvE, and I am sure a lot of people will be successful with it in PvP to one degree or another, but right now SD feels like the only really nice, solid, all-around build that we have left…

I disagree with Sunnypsyop.

sPvP :

As soon as the ennemy will identify you as a Glass cannon, you ’ll be death before even unleashing your burst. They will focus fire you.

You don’t have anything to release pressure from the ennemy, except gear shield which will save you for 3 second. Your CC breaker is really poor, as Elixir S break stun and render you invulnerable for 3 second. Immune to blind won’t save you.

You also only have 1 condition removal. Which is deadly if the enemy have a HGH engineer or a Necromancer.

WvW →

About the same thing, you won’t escape the zerg. You can’t reset a fight. You lack conditions removal.

HGH Condition →

Good Vitality/Thoughtness, Top conditions removal, a lot of defence mecanism, good burst and really good sustained damage.

Overall, SD can be efficient, but if your burst doesn’t neutralize him, you are in trouble.
I would take HGH over this SD build anytime.

I think you could tinker a bit with your SD build to make it less bursty, but more survival.

You are basically a shatter mesmer without the escape mecanism.

I disagree that Null Field makes a Condi Build useless. I actually only strips one per per second, and around 5 or 6 conditions total. Since we typically have more then 5 or 6 conditions on the target and are constantly applying many of them anyway it makes a dent certainly but it most certainly does not stop the flow of damage. Engineer condition builds overload most condition removal compared to other condi builds. Condi removal is not the answer to an Engi condi assault.

As for what is better, an SD build vs. a Condi-Burst… I honestly haven’t played SD in a long time so I don’t think I’m qualified to answer that.

First off, he’s talking HGH power vs SD not HgH conditions, and now to the meat of it. HGH power is the way to go, run it with zerkers amulet and you still end up with 18.9k health in spvp and its really powerful. I run it all the time, although I don’t use speedy kits I use 20% Rifle cooldown reductions. From all your elixirs you will have enough speed, and the ability to use your rifle abilities faster is just stronger in my opinion. As far as burst is concerned HGH power hits like a kitten truck once you get 25 stacks of might up, each grenade will be hitting hard and grenade barrage will rip off 1/2 of most people lifes at that point, and thats not even to mention how much condition removal you get. The biggest issue with it is the need to hit the grenades to really get your dps up, if you can do that then this build is 100% better than SD that I promise you.

Goodluck,
Zaragoz

PS. In wvw just run conditions utilizing p/p and prybar for a nasty 9 stacks of confusion. Thats all you’ll ever need, power just falls short in wvw atm but its definatley competitive in spvp.

Well let’s just pretend all of our posts back there don’t count then, and I’ll see myself out. Whoops. I’m clearly not qualified for that kinda discussion, heh.

Now I never said that :P but he is talking about two power builds, although the power variant is basically the same minus the zerkers amulet and rifle lol :P

Yeah I misread it, but most of my post is still valid.

Haha, I was serious though, I made an awesome mistake. Hopefully someone who has tried both builds can help rectify this craziness. I’ve played the Power variation and it is quite different to have the Rifle and extremely powerful Grenade Barrages in comparison to relying more on Bleeds and Burns. Again though, without really doing an SD build in a long time I don’t think I’m qualified to compare them or I would be offering advice.

Refer to my original post, I actually played an SD build yesterday in about 6 soloque tourneys it just isn’t on par with the HGH rifle/grenade build, one condition user will just completley kitten on you and theres nothing you can do about it… I just feel its less survivable overall, although and I reiterate if your not good at landing grenades you will feel that the HGH power build lacks in dps considering thats where a very large portion of your damage will come from, but once you get good at landing them you will be sold on it. As I said with 25 stacks of might up a grenade barrage will just absolutley wreck people.

Goodluck,

Zaragoz

Sorry to derail a bit but how do you get 25 stacks of might? We are talking spvp here right? I was messing with the HGH condition build yesterday and never really got more than 11 stacks and averaged around 7-8 I think. Admittedly, I’m new at the playstyle so this could just be a l2 kitten ue – but just having a hard time seeing how you get that many stacks?

@ Leadfoot: Lots of boon/might duration. HGH already gives you 30% boon duration from investing 30pts in Alchemy. 2x Rune of Hoelbrak (20% Might Duration), Rune of Fire (20% Might Duration), Rune of Strength (20% Might Duration) will keep your Might stacks up for quite a while.

Using a Sigil of Battle and liberally swapping between Grenades and your weapon (IMO Hair Trigger and Short Fuse are a must have for either HGH build) will aid considerably in generating those might stacks along with using your Elixirs naturally through combat.

RE: OP – I defer to Zaragoz. He’s said everything I would’ve said.

@ Null Field countering condis – not really a huge issue. Ele’s with their current mandatory 30 pts in water and evasive arcana are a harder counter due to the more consistent nature of their condi cleansing being part of their inherent combat mechanics.

hackks.3687:

@ Leadfoot: Lots of boon/might duration. HGH already gives you 30% boon duration from investing 30pts in Alchemy. 2x Rune of Hoelbrak (20% Might Duration), Rune of Fire (20% Might Duration), Rune of Strength (20% Might Duration) will keep your Might stacks up for quite a while.

Using a Sigil of Battle and liberally swapping between Grenades and your weapon (IMO Hair Trigger and Short Fuse are a must have for either HGH build) will aid considerably in generating those might stacks along with using your Elixirs naturally through combat.

I was running 4 hoelbrak and 2 strength and perhaps not swapping between grenades and p/p that frequently. I guess that would be why? Seems like a huge difference though… is the extra 20% might duration actually better than occassionally getting might when hit (the 4th hoelbrak rune)?

Make sure you are trying to use Shrapnel Grenades on cooldown, that’ll force you to swap enough.

Leadfoot.9071:

hackks.3687:

@ Leadfoot: Lots of boon/might duration. HGH already gives you 30% boon duration from investing 30pts in Alchemy. 2x Rune of Hoelbrak (20% Might Duration), Rune of Fire (20% Might Duration), Rune of Strength (20% Might Duration) will keep your Might stacks up for quite a while.

Using a Sigil of Battle and liberally swapping between Grenades and your weapon (IMO Hair Trigger and Short Fuse are a must have for either HGH build) will aid considerably in generating those might stacks along with using your Elixirs naturally through combat.

I was running 4 hoelbrak and 2 strength and perhaps not swapping between grenades and p/p that frequently. I guess that would be why? Seems like a huge difference though… is the extra 20% might duration actually better than occassionally getting might when hit (the 4th hoelbrak rune)?

I just don’t think you actually need another source of Might. There’s plenty there already and longevity is key to amassing the Might, making you stronger as the fight wears on, rather than merely refreshing a smaller amount of Might stacks.

Ayestes.1273:

Make sure you are trying to use Shrapnel Grenades on cooldown, that’ll force you to swap enough.

This!

Pretty much what they said, shrapnel is actually the hardest hitting grenade other than grenade barrage, since the nerf to grenade 1 you obviously don’t even want to use it other than hitting points with multiples when other grenades are on cd but even then it feels lackluster, but since I run power and i like a little boost, i go with +10% damage on explosions trait. with fire, hoelbrak, and strength you run around with 90% might duration after adding that to your inherent 30% from trait line. Boon stripping can be a pain, but you should be putting on might like crazy, and even without it a well landed shrapnel or freeze grenade still hits so kitten hard. Hip shot is kinda my go to vs range classes since hitting a moving target from a distance with grenades can be hard, and if you can land stability on toss elixir s the grenade barrage/jump shot combo will rip off 3/4 of almost anyones life anywho…

Goodluck,

Zaragoz

SD and a more survivable elixir build do not necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, at least not in WvW, where not going all the min/max way can be acceptable if it provides some other benefit.

I’ve been running a 30/0/0/20/20 framework for quite a while now using Med kit and Enhanced Performance for might stacking and changing traits as I need them. With two elixirs in the utility slots and 409 I get most of the advantages of an elixir build, while swapping in Rifle Turret, Tool Kit ( and Backpack Generator for some passive defense ) will let me take full advantage of SD.

The gear required is the same anyway, basically Sigil of Battle, Power, Precision, Crit dmg and toughness/vit where you can fit some in.

I’m really struggling to get my might stacks upto 20+, thanks for the tips

galandor.1059:

HGH Power Build,

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlspSXHxSfF17IyoCdmoHPGlNZfewWtFEC;TkAg0CnoCykjIHrOugk6MEB

This is nearly identical to the build I commonly use in sPvP. I think it works quite well in that format, able to deal out good single target and AoE damage with decent control, condition removal, and a stun break. It has some weaknesses, such as not having great damage mitigation and vulnerability to boon stripping/conversion, but it’s a fairly solid build that wins by directly applying offence rather than attempting to manipulate the enemy or win through attrition.

With this build, I would suggest considering both Enhance Performance and Empowering Adrenaline in the Explosives trait line instead of Incendiary Powder and Explosive Powder.

This build has no base condition damage, and even though it can acquire a decent amount through a high number of might stacks, the burning will still only tick for 2 seconds since you only have +30% condition duration (assuming there are no external buffs like food). In comparison, Empowering Adrenaline provides a flat 5% damage boost to all attacks when endurance is not full, and it is likely not full in the middle of a fight. This boost is also not dependent on critical hits to trigger. Since your direct damage would be very high with all those might stacks, my guess is that the extra damage from Empowering Adrenaline would outweigh the overall benefits from Incendiary Powder. I would have to crunch the numbers to be absolutely sure though.

Enhance Performance allows you to build 5 might stacks with Elixir H instead of 2 (does not count for toss elixir H). While it is possible that Explosive Powder has a higher potential in terms of DPS, this is dependent on you using your grenade kits. One of the things I’ve discovered with this build is that there is a lot of mileage you can get out of using the rifle, and being overly dependent on the grenade kit for your damage will cause you to lose fights. Explosive Powder provides zero benefit to your rifle attacks, whereas Enhance Performance provides a benefit to all your damage (it might also boost the damage from the supply crate turrets, but I’m not sure).

The Short Fuse and Shrapnel traits might also be worth looking at, but I found I preferred the above two I mentioned.

I have not yet played around with SD builds, mostly because I don’t see them being as effective in sPvP, and I don’t have the proper gear to try it out in PvE/WvW yet.

What should the second sigil for my pistol be?

Thank you.

Corruption in most cases, since mixing any cooldown sigils with other cooldown sigils tends to cause problems. Anything without a cooldown is possible, but Corruption is the most commonly chosen.

Edit: I’m on the Condi train again it seems. +5% damage is perfectly reasonable for any direct dmg build, or the Power stacking one.

SD builds are more fun oriented like most glass cannon builds.
When it comes to group fights you lack some major defenses like condition removal or an “oh kitten button”.
Don’t get me wrong, you got a long range and easy to land burst and if you get used to the build you can still kick kitten even vs good people, but it’s way harder and you gotta be very “aware” of what happens in the battlefield.
HGH pays a lot more in hard situations, and it’s vastly more solid, even if your long range burst doesn’t even come close
However i would choose the one you like the most to play, they’re both decently effective overall and luckily in this game you can perform with almost anything if you play well.
For my personal taste, i prefer sd glassy builds because they feel a lot more “on the edge”, and when i want to go for a more solid and tactic playstyle i switch to my condition gear, and go hgh with that.
just my 2 cents.

Iddiozzia.3489:

SD builds are more fun oriented like most glass cannon builds.
When it comes to group fights you lack some major defenses like condition removal or an “oh kitten button”.
Don’t get me wrong, you got a long range and easy to land burst and if you get used to the build you can still kick kitten even vs good people, but it’s way harder and you gotta be very “aware” of what happens in the battlefield.
HGH pays a lot more in hard situations, and it’s vastly more solid, even if your long range burst doesn’t even come close
However i would choose the one you like the most to play, they’re both decently effective overall and luckily in this game you can perform with almost anything if you play well.
For my personal taste, i prefer sd glassy builds because they feel a lot more “on the edge”, and when i want to go for a more solid and tactic playstyle i switch to my condition gear, and go hgh with that.
just my 2 cents.

I used to see quite a few SD builds in WvW, which has the benefit of you being able to spike someone down ikittenerg situation where you’re less likely to be singled out and focused compared to smaller skirmishes. Haven’t seen them in awhile though, maybe people got bored of them or just decided to switch to grenades or dual pistols.

EDIT: Really? It censored “zerg” because it has the letters “n” and “a” preceding in, as in “in”, then “a”, and “zerg”. Nice job profanity filter, nice job.