Guild Wars 2

So I’ve been seeing a lot of threads and posts in threads about Engineers should be able to use the Hammer, I personally do not see it. What skills would they use? I personally don’t really see an Engineer as a melee class, but that’s my opinion obviously.

I do feel that Engineers should have more choice in their weapons, some might argue the kits are weapons, but they are a choice and I for instance do not use them, I don’t find them fun myself. Opinions, opinions.

So. Hammers: what’s the fuss about?

Well, hammers are awesome, and I dont understand why you think they dont suit Engis. Couse theyre medium armor? Becouse of their skills? I mean Rangers and Thiefs use melee and our utilities are OK, and the only melee thing we have is the Tool Kit wich is kinda awkward.
I mean come on, steampunk melee hammer Engineer, it already sounds good.

Its an Aesthetic thing, people feel that Engineers should be be able to run around with a big hammer because it fits the style of what is typically an engineer. Personally I think the tool kit fits that aesthetic, and it just needs some work to be viable. Also, just because the weapon is “melee” doesn’t mean it has to have a melee skill set, look at the Mesmer great-sword for example.

Aestethics sure! But it will provide some new touch to the engineer. Almost every class has an melee option, even the class which has the word ‘range’ in it has melee options. Why don’t we?

Engineers do though; the toolkit. It’s a wrench too, so it actually fits the tinkering tools thing. Hammers do not fit the aesthetics imo. Can you see one of those massive warhammers being used to repair a turret, or fine tune some gears?

even the class which has the word ‘range’ in it has melee options.

This is a Very Stupid thing to say that is sadly far too common. Rangers do not get their name because they use ranged weapons to attack someone from range, in much the same way warriors aren’t called ‘melee-ers’ because they attack from melee. Most rangers, especially the original ones, made extensive use of melee weapons. Aragon from Lord of the Rings, the prototype fantasy ranger, spent more time running around with a sword than a bow.

Rangers get their name from the verb “to range” which if you crack out a thesaurus gives equivalent verbs such as “to wander”. Rangers range over a large range of lands, hence they’re called rangers. It’s like how a cook cooks, or a singer sings.

They could always make a steam hammer cannon for the engineer. Shoots out a hammer like it were a golem arm.

….

I wasn’t serious about the range thing, and Legolas was the ranger proto-type, actually.

kits are soemthing diffirent.You sacrifice a utility skill slot and therefore it is not a fair option compared to rangers or thieves. And the tool kits melee skills are 1 and 3, not a complete set of 5 skills, another reason why this is not a real melee option.

I would love to see the Tool Kit get some tweaks. Right now its strongest ability is its Toolbelt Skill (Throw Wrench). The #1 needs to attack faster and do a LOT more healing on turrets. #2 needs a faster casting time. #3 should have a shorter cooldown, #4 is fine—maybe increase the duration to 3 seconds or give it a counterattack on block, and #5 needs its range and casting time increased and decreased respectively. Also, as an Asuran Engineer player, I would love to see the wrench itself scaled up. This kit is very close to being a viable melee option.

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

….

I wasn’t serious about the range thing, and Legolas was the ranger proto-type, actually.

kits are soemthing diffirent.You sacrifice a utility skill slot and therefore it is not a fair option compared to rangers or thieves. And the tool kits melee skills are 1 and 3, not a complete set of 5 skills, another reason why this is not a real melee option.

Aragon was in an organisation that was referred to as rangers. Legolas was, afaik, ‘just’ a soldier.
The toolkit comes with a block and pull, can cause confusion (which is always handy) and has the toolbelt skill, which throws a wrench out, protentially triggering a field twice, and hitting the target twice. It’s not perfect but it’s not bad.

Maces would be ok.
But two-handed hammers? Please no.

Well I personally don’t find it appealing aestetic wise, but thats my opinion obviously. My point was how exactly would it be used? I see a lot of people “HAMMERPLX” but no one really gives an idea as to how it would work. A Bow for instance I can picture, but a Hammer, not really.

Bow are for treehuggers. We are the heralds of progress and use more sofisticated weapons of war. And that’s why we can’t have hammers.

I think its because engineers currently don’t feel as punchy as other professions that are DPS focused and getting the hammer could be a way to rectify this. My thoughts to how the hammer would work would be something like this:

Skill 1: 3 chained attack applying weakness, vulnerability and ending in a cripple
Skill 2: Leap attack ending with an AoE burn and a 3 second fire field
Skill 3: Small AoE attack. Blast Finisher.
Skill 4: Projectile attack that leaves a trail of smoke/fire
Skill 5: Large AoE attack resulting in burning, bleed and knock back.

Very little utility here to get yourself out of a tricky situation but plenty of damage and conditions to give you a fighting chance to brute force your way through.

In any case the hammer would open up a new branch of play styles which would help the engineer feel less pigeon holed into using certain builds/kits if they want a more DPS focused build.

You just basically described the tool kit or bomb kit. I do not see how that opens up a new branch of play style.

I do not feel the profession is pigeon holed at all. Just because the forums is full of posters discussing using their pigeon holed builds, does not mean you have to use one of them. Nor does it even mean they are the best. Think for yourself, think outside the box, and play your way.

Hammers would be fine with me.
By ADDING a new weapon you would be taking absolutly NOTHING away from my gameplay.
If I don’t like the hammer I do not have to use the hammer, simple as that.

As far as it fitting the profession I think a hammer fits the Engineer just as much as a shield does. Its not so much the weapon as much as it is the skill sets with the weapon, if Engineers had a hammer I am sure it would be more utility oriented with maybe even an option to repair turrets, tht way if you play with turrets you aren’t forced to use toolkit as your only option to repair them.

Or along with grenades getting a nerf (Or at least, I think it’s inevitable) the other kits could be buffed up including the wrench, giving you your ‘viable’ melee, despite the fact it’s workable at the moment?
I’ve done dungeons with it for goddness’s sake, the toolkit is okay at the moment. Instead of getting new stuff, how about the stuff that’s already there working first?

Hammers sound like a really good and fun alternative for the Engineer.
They should definitely incorporate forms of technology to make the abilities really unique to the Engineer.
Swinging the hammer around your head on the end of a chain for an AOE
Throwing a mine on the ground and then smacking it with the hammer for blast finisher.
Buffing the end of your hammer with shrapnel for bleeds, or oil for burning.

We have two melee range weapons.

Bomb kit and toolkit.

Fixing those first would be nice.

MentalPause.9183:

Its an Aesthetic thing, people feel that Engineers should be be able to run around with a big hammer because it fits the style of what is typically an engineer.

I haven’t played a *huge* variety of games, but I can’t think of any in which an engineer-ish character uses a 2h hammer.

I would say the typical engineer has a one-handed wrench ala TF2 or Bioshock, and we already have that via toolkit; that in-and-of-itself is reason to buff the toolkit imo; something that iconic should NOT be underpowered (or make an entirely new kit focused on the wrench with all/most of its abilities).

Anywho, I’m kinda with the OP on the matter. 2h hammers don’t fit the engineer at all imo. 2h hammers are pretty much the ’hulk smash!’ weapon; which is something you’d expect warriors or guardians to excel at... but engineers? Engineers are more about finesse, albeit in kind of a quirky way.

The closest engineers have to the whole ’hulk smash’ thing would be explosions... which are pretty much the child of brute force and chemistry, so no complaints there.

That’s not to say engineers (in general; not just GW2) can’t mindlessly beat the snot out of something using sheer muscle; but it wouldn’t really look the part unless they were holding that is iconic of finesse - like a wrench.

That said, there really aren’t many tools that have that kind of versatility. Wrenches make a great bludgeoning utensil, but are *intended* to be used in a much, much more precise manner. ...Hammers are designed to just pound the crap out of things - and keep in mind we’re not talking about like a ball-pein-hammer or some kind of construction tool; but a war hammer... it’s just not very engineer-ish.

The only way I could see a 2h hammer working with the engineer is if, as others have mentioned, it was implemented as a kit, as some kind of tech’d out steam-punk hammer... but... if we’re gonna do a melee kit, I’d rather see more focus on the wrench; or like a chainsaw kit or somethin’.

As far as actual current in-game weapons go, I think the torch would be the best option aesthetically and conceptually for the engineer... unfortunately we’ve got the whole lighting $#!% on fire thing pretty well covered at this point, so I have no idea what could be implemented in terms of abilities that wouldn’t be redundant to what we already have. /shrug. Actually I think I’ll make a torch-brainstorming thread after this. (Edit: Link here)

I can definitely see Engineers doing some melee, they even have tool kits for it. Why not give them a weapon that can do it?

Haltus Kain.4578:

MentalPause.9183:

Its an Aesthetic thing, people feel that Engineers should be be able to run around with a big hammer because it fits the style of what is typically an engineer.

I haven’t played a huge variety of games, but I can’t think of any in which an engineer-ish character uses a 2h hammer.

I would say the typical engineer has a one-handed wrench ala TF2 or Bioshock, and we already have that via toolkit; that in-and-of-itself is reason to buff the toolkit imo; something that iconic should NOT be underpowered (or make an entirely new kit focused on the wrench with all/most of its abilities).

Anywho, I’m kinda with the OP on the matter. 2h hammers don’t fit the engineer at all imo. 2h hammers are pretty much the ‘hulk smash!’ weapon; which is something you’d expect warriors or guardians to excel at… but engineers? Engineers are more about finesse, albeit in kind of a quirky way.

The closest engineers have to the whole ‘hulk smash’ thing would be explosions… which are pretty much the child of brute force and chemistry, so no complaints there.

That’s not to say engineers (in general; not just GW2) can’t mindlessly beat the snot out of something using sheer muscle; but it wouldn’t really look the part unless they were holding that is iconic of finesse – like a wrench.

That said, there really aren’t many tools that have that kind of versatility. Wrenches make a great bludgeoning utensil, but are intended to be used in a much, much more precise manner. …Hammers are designed to just pound the crap out of things – and keep in mind we’re not talking about like a ball-pein-hammer or some kind of construction tool; but a war hammer… it’s just not very engineer-ish.

The only way I could see a 2h hammer working with the engineer is if, as others have mentioned, it was implemented as a kit, as some kind of tech’d out steam-punk hammer… but… if we’re gonna do a melee kit, I’d rather see more focus on the wrench; or like a chainsaw kit or somethin’.

As far as actual current in-game weapons go, I think the torch would be the best option aesthetically and conceptually for the engineer… unfortunately we’ve got the whole lighting $#!% on fire thing pretty well covered at this point, so I have no idea what could be implemented in terms of abilities that wouldn’t be redundant to what we already have. /shrug. Actually I think I’ll make a torch-brainstorming thread after this. (Edit: Link here)

Agreed 100%, would like to see a toolkit buff though.

Hammerguard.9834:

I can definitely see Engineers doing some melee, they even have tool kits for it. Why not give them a weapon that can do it?

Because they have a toolkit for it.

A (real) engineer credo I hear frequently: “If at first you don’t succeed, use a bigger hammer!” Of the weapons available in the game, if I had to pick a melee weapon for engineers, it would be either a dagger (everybody needs something to cut fuses, no?) or a hammer. The preferable melee weapon for an RPG engineer, though, is a wrench. We have the toolkit wrench, but the toolkit is a utility kit, not a damage kit. Perhaps the solution for engineers wanting a viable melee option is an entirely new kit that features an enormous 2-handed wrench, wielded solely for the purpose of laying waste to the opposition (not for fixing turrets or providing various forms of defense/control). That way, you get your hammer without doing anything preposterous to the class or having to introduce a new weapon into the game that only engineers can use.

If the engineer had a hammer, perhaps the most viable melee build would be hammer+toolkit for more melee options

Loki.4871:

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

….

I wasn’t serious about the range thing, and Legolas was the ranger proto-type, actually.

kits are soemthing diffirent.You sacrifice a utility skill slot and therefore it is not a fair option compared to rangers or thieves. And the tool kits melee skills are 1 and 3, not a complete set of 5 skills, another reason why this is not a real melee option.

Aragon was in an organisation that was referred to as rangers. Legolas was, afaik, ‘just’ a soldier.
The toolkit comes with a block and pull, can cause confusion (which is always handy) and has the toolbelt skill, which throws a wrench out, protentially triggering a field twice, and hitting the target twice. It’s not perfect but it’s not bad.

That might just be a diffirent use of the word ranger then, anyway not my point.

Yea the toolkit is not bad, I use it alot. But I do think engineers deserve a fair melee option, such as a hammer!

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

Loki.4871:

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

….

I wasn’t serious about the range thing, and Legolas was the ranger proto-type, actually.

kits are soemthing diffirent.You sacrifice a utility skill slot and therefore it is not a fair option compared to rangers or thieves. And the tool kits melee skills are 1 and 3, not a complete set of 5 skills, another reason why this is not a real melee option.

Aragon was in an organisation that was referred to as rangers. Legolas was, afaik, ‘just’ a soldier.
The toolkit comes with a block and pull, can cause confusion (which is always handy) and has the toolbelt skill, which throws a wrench out, protentially triggering a field twice, and hitting the target twice. It’s not perfect but it’s not bad.

That might just be a diffirent use of the word ranger then, anyway not my point.

Yea the toolkit is not bad, I use it alot. But I do think engineers deserve a fair melee option, such as a hammer!

The word ranger is used widely to describe a nature guide-themed archetype in RPGs which originates from D&D which got most of its stuff from LotR. If you want to get technical Aragorn is a ranger and Legolas is a fighter who happens to be an elf, so he uses bows (or if you prefer 1st edition D&D his class would be elf)

The archetype has been expanded to encompass the hunter/huntress theme which is were the association of the bow comes from.

Regardless of other uses of the word in RPG context it comes from moving around a lot……not that this is the point of the thread. So

Hammers would be great! and well within the theme of the class. Many have said that maces would work but I feel that there are too many mace skins that aren’t thematically appropriate.

That is not entirely accurate. From the official “A Tolkien Dictionary”

The term ranger in LoTR (LoTR does predate D&D by a good bit)

One of a body of organized armed men who range over a region to protect and preserve the people and the land and especially to enforce the law and protect it from evil forces.

coglin.1496:

That is not entirely accurate. From the official “A Tolkien Dictionary”

The term ranger in LoTR (LoTR does predate D&D by a good bit)

One of a body of organized armed men who range over a region to protect and preserve the people and the land and especially to enforce the law and protect it from evil forces.

Hence the which D&D took from LotR bit. I sometimes wonder if people even entirely read posts before posting….

My post is referring only to its use in RPGs and how the association came to be

While I haven’t been playing the engineer for very long relative to my thief or warrior, I don’t think a hammer would fit the aesthetic very well. Engineers come off to me as “i may not be strong or have magical abilities, but I have the brains to match everyone else,” which is why they seem to have such a vast array of abilities which can be equated to other classes. A hammer would be unwieldy in their hands. A sword or dagger on the other hand (not to be confused with offhand) with some built in tazer effects would much more fitting. # 1 slot being a chain of slash-slash-shock with a confusion or weakness effect on the end, #2 being a short ranged arc lightning with a cripple effect and say a 10 second cooldown, and #3 being a lightning bolt air on top of the character that either stuns or knocks back. It would pair well with the shield that already works off electrical properties, at least from a fluff standpoint.

Honestly, our rifle is basically a ranged hammer.

Needs hammer:
1 – Smash, Confusing Smash, Concussion Smash [auto chain]: Damage, Damage + confusion, Damage + 2 stacks of confusion.
2 – Mine Bash [8s]: AoE ground attack that plants a mine that acitavtes after 2 seconds.
3 – Hammer Shield [16s] – Block all incoming melee attacks for the next 2 seconds. When hit by a projectile the effect ends and you get: ‘Batter back’ that allows you to shoot the projectile at a target within the next 3 seconds.
4 – Heavy Leap [12s]: Leap towards your target dazing it on impact.
5 – Contructing Strike [18s]: Creates an overcharged Rifle Turret in front of you for 8 seconds.

No thanks.
We have 5/6 weapins,all with basically melee functions…and you ask for an hammer?another melee???

If u like hammer,just play the useless toolkit guys,it’s only a different aestetics,but still the *nth melee weapon we have.

Instead of this,wouldn’t you like a SERIUS long range kit?I don’t mean an elixir gun that does 250 dmg + useless bleed (if you are setted power and crit elixir gun at long range really suck) , but i mean a FULL long range kit, base 1200 range without any passive,that can deal at least 500 BASE dmg , with 5 LONG RANGE weapons skill….not just a long range auto attack like our rifle…

Might as well as CriSPeh said. it takes nothing from us. i wouldn’t use a hammer myself but it may come with a weopon toggle so that’s a plus.

Nirvana.8659:

No thanks.
We have 5/6 weapins,all with basically melee functions…and you ask for an hammer?another melee???

If u like hammer,just play the useless toolkit guys,it’s only a different aestetics,but still the *nth melee weapon we have.

Instead of this,wouldn’t you like a SERIUS long range kit?I don’t mean an elixir gun that does 250 dmg + useless bleed (if you are setted power and crit elixir gun at long range really suck) , but i mean a FULL long range kit, base 1200 range without any passive,that can deal at least 500 BASE dmg , with 5 LONG RANGE weapons skill….not just a long range auto attack like our rifle…

Ye and with trait 1500 that would be nice but if not Throw your idea back in the trash

and give us hammer

I would love a hammer.
I already play melee with the bomb kit so…

I wouldn’t mind a hammer.

But keep in mind it might not be melee if we get it.

They might make it like a ranged lightning rod, shooting lightning bolts or something,

if they did it like the other hammers or 2h’s it would have a lot of overlap with our melee kits + rifle.

Although there would be a certain awesomeness if they made it a 1200 range ligtning weapon!

Our rifle is melee but our hammer is ranged!