Guild Wars 2

I still don’t know if I’m going to keep this build because I already bought exotic rampager set and dual rampager pistols. I use superior rune of the afflicted. I was trying to go for somewhat condition/high dps build. But thinking this might be wrong….can someone give me some advice on what sets/items to use if i want to be say..condition/damager build.

thanks in advance…

i find with conditions its alot better with grenades, you can stack alot of bleeds.
but your gonna have trouble surviving without some toughness.

i run grenades too, but sacrifices alot of precision and cond for some tough/vit just so i can last longer

Pistols will still do conditions better, if only because you can get even more precision/condition damage, not to mention their better accuracy, and that they’re more than just bleeds.

so basically pistol skills are better for condition dmg than grenades or bombs?

Condition build didn’t work well from my test until I ran with 30 alchemy, buff duration stacking, the quickness elixer, and almost capped out crit with fury. Otherwise the damage simply wasn’t there. It also feels glass cannonish without a shield but the leeway is there for either or.

Anyway its a fun build imo due to it having a theme you can roll with from a rp perspective.

Grenades and bombs condi build work better for the tankish route I believe.

ok but a rampager set and rampager weapon would be ok if im doing dual pistol condition/damage build? what else can you suggest im still really confused with what weapon and set to go with…

I am balancing power, precision, toughness and vitality using rifle.

Switching between turret build and elixir build for both PvP and PvE, not a bad combi.

Tried pistol condition build, the initial damage is too low for my liking, and there are no rifle skills such as netting and knock-back to escape from enemies.

Pistols are better than rifle imo. but remember that you don’t get your weapon stats whilst using a kit(at this time hopefully they change this). And runes of the afflicted may not be great as you can’t really(in my experience) many bleeds out as an engi. Condition damage is good tho just more spreed between a few conditions.

If you want to do damage use pistol 2(poison shot or what ever). I use shield for more surviability but you can use dual and get a burn(4) in if you are close. Then I would switch to grenade kit(bleed(2) + poison(5) with some great cc in chill(4) and blind(3)) and using (1) and the F-key skill are awesome for some more power damage. The bomb kit F-key skill is great but you have to time it and get in close( combo it with the poison grenade for more poison).

Spec into explosives for some nice traits(cant think of them all off the top) like the one where explosions cause vulnerability.

As far as gear I would avoid precision/power/condition because it is weak defence wise and I wouldn’t suggest being like the other 80% of players trying to be the best dps without considering toughness and vitality. I would recommend getting some lol. I am not totally familiar with all the insignias for gear. I would get power/perc/toughness(misht not be an option or only god armor) with some jewelry with CD(what i plan on doing). Power is the way I think to go as far as damage, But you seem set on going condition damage I would still say to get some tough or vit. Now that i think of it it wouldn’t be a bad idea to use mixed armor.

oh and As far as I know the only difference between vit and tough is that vit is better defense against CD and toughness will help against power damage. so i would say using toughness is better in pve + u can use the utility skill removes conditions.

Ive also heard some people having good luck with flamethrower and the trait that helps it.

Have fun.

Oh and grenade kit is a major win under water. super easy, might even have to be nerfed

grenade would be nice too the only thing is most people say to max out dmg you have to build on pow, pres, and crit. I don’t know if this is 100% true….so that makes me kind of disappointed too for getting rampager set instead of berserker…but since you guys suggest adding more vit or toughness…what sets, weapons, trinkets should i get if i want to be more on a high to mid DPS/tanky build?

i like an pisto/pistol build without a single kit… any idiot can avoid bombs/grenades and flametrowers anyway

Warmage Timeraider.5861:

i like an pisto/pistol build without a single kit… any idiot can avoid bombs/grenades and flametrowers anyway

lol yeah i really like the dual pistol the thing is it has low dps, and people are saying condition dmg is not good for engineers….so this really confuses me.

Zivac.9605:

Warmage Timeraider.5861:

i like an pisto/pistol build without a single kit… any idiot can avoid bombs/grenades and flametrowers anyway

lol yeah i really like the dual pistol the thing is it has low dps, and people are saying condition dmg is not good for engineers….so this really confuses me.

Go with your own thoughts, each build has pros and cons. I am sticking to just rifle for the damage, I can sacrifice AOE effects of grenades though, as I hate the target system.

Condition/precision/power are the bread and butter of Engineer damage. It’s hard not to mix the three because there are so many crit-procs that you can build on. Pistols, Flamethrower, and grenades benefit from this combo easily, since all three rely on condition damage in some way.

The adept tier of both Firearms and Explosives have crit-procs that spawn condition damage, and both increase condition damage in their own way (either intensity or duration).

going for hybrid damage works quite good even if you use pistols only. just make sure you get enough defensive stats from traits.

I agree with Capt Cosmic. I run with offensive stats on my armor/weapons and survival/defensive stats on my trinkets.

If you balance it that way, you can get a good mix of damage and survival to help you play intelligently (albeit not calmly) through most instances and PvP.

Condition builds are inherently damage over time. So I never recommend glass cannon with them.
Prec/tough/cond for p/p. or prec/vit/cond.

p/p damage is not remotely pure cond damage. And you do gain from power, prec largely.

There are additional secondary effects as well. Retaliation. Static discharge. For example. These scale with power.

Casia, you have to remember, that scaling is not linear. Some skills scale better than others with power.

IIRC, 50 points in power for the rifle might equal 50 more damage, but 50 points in power for the pistols will probably equal only 25 more damage.

There are set ways that skills scale to power, and pistols scale quite poorly.

Stick with conditions for pistols honestly.

I was making two statements.
Crit, tough, and cond for basic p/p as pure damage is not a good idea with condition builds. This is the basic cookie-cutter stat priority.

Secondly, if you do want pure damage. You do get a good amount of scaling with power, due to high crit, every p/p skill having a damage component, and other non-pistol skills scaling with power. explosive shot’s aoe is largely power/direct damage.

Explosive shot is mainly power and direct damage, but that doesn’t mean it scales well.

Power is not like malice, power damage scales at seemingly arbitrary ways. A bleed is always the same, but explosive shot+50 power won’t give you the same % increase in damage as +50 power on a rifles hip shot.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

if you want to go glass cannon and max dps.
you have 3 stats on gear.
there are 4 damage stats possible. cond, power, crit and crit damage.
I dont think cond, crit and crit damage exists on one item.
So cond, crit, power is you ONLY choice. And that power is NOT WASTED.

I’m saying it is wasted.

Its simply not efficient.

You’re better off spending on vit, toughness, healing or anything else.

Casia.4281:

Condition builds are inherently damage over time. So I never recommend glass cannon with them.
Prec/tough/cond for p/p. or prec/vit/cond.
.

….
The entire context was, if you disregard, and go glass cannon anyway. Power is a valuable stat. As its scales with secondary effects outside of p/p. Such as retaliation, which has a high up time with elixir B. Static discharge on toolbelt use. which is REALLY strong. Grenade toolbelt skill, which is very high dps even without swapping to grenades. Hidden pistol, and the like.
The power portion will scale with your target 80% crit (+20% fury), it will scale with your 5% + damage on bleed target.
And its largely the portion that will scale when explosive shot multi-hits. Explosive shot with piercing pistols works very much like Lit field in Rift does. for anyone that has played that. A 300 damage hit normally, hitting two targets near each other now hits for each target for 300 twice. 3 targets? 300×3 to each target. (more then that, that close very rarely occurs) This is significantly more direct damage, then bleed is applied. which is only the 30% chance on crit to apply.

You DO also get free power from might, so yes, power is the least high priority dps stat for a p/p build. however, it YOU gain from it.

Lyuben.2613:

I’m saying it is wasted.

Its simply not efficient.

You’re better off spending on vit, toughness, healing or anything else.

1. healing is the most useless stat ingame
2. Damage scales linearly with Power
3. Each point of Power increases attack by one
4. most of the engi abilities are hybrid in damage.
5. you already get precision, which would make every point of power more efficient in the end. you can cover most of your durability by CC and traits.

has anyone actually tested the scaling? you throw in some assumptions but just because the base damage from explosive shot is lower does not mean that it has different power scaling. I was always under the impression that pistol direct damage was lower because of the low base damage of the abilities and pistols compared to rifle.

scaling alone does not make power crit builds better. high base damage obviously means more direct damage and more benefit from direct damage boosts.

well, I have over 2k power and a pistol that has over 1k damage, and my explosive shot doesn’t do 3-4k damage….

Too busy atm, the actually log in and get these values. someone should have recorded them by now.

Condition builds are great. As an engineer in a group setting, you will probably benefit your teammates more by running a condition build, since engis have such a diverse array of conditions and ability to spread them easily.

PvE:

I use pistol/shield. Pistol/pistol is nice for the burning, but I never have a problem applying burning through the use of that trait. Rocket turret is great for burning too (it’s really the only viable damage turret.) I also like using the “50% chance on crit to inflict vulnerability” trait. Elixir Gun is my kit of choice, and aforementioned trait combined with EG’s #3 allows me to reliably stack 6-7 vulnerabilities. Stacking vuln is really important when not soloing, as it effectively increases all teammate dps. An important final tier trait I take is the one in Firepower that causes pistol shots to pierce (just like the Rifle.) Simply line the mobs up – if you’ve ever used the rifle, this is second nature. With pistol it’s even more amazing. Everything in a line is hit and bleeds with a chance to burn and become vulnerable. Your skill #2 essentially becomes “rapidly shoot and apply poison to all target in a cone.”

Now, if you’re doing it right, you will be forcing yourself into potentially dangerous positions for the sake of optimizing your damage-everything-in-a-line playstyle. That’s why I run the shield: #4 lets me shake ‘em off if I get swarmed and #5 lets me stop/block dangerous channels. Plus I’m tankier. I’ve already said I use Elixir Gun for stacking vuln, but it’s other uses are invaluable to me. It basically turns me into a kiting machine. I shoot #5 in the direction that I plan to kite, shoot #2, and shoot #4, launching myself into #5’s regen pool. Skill #4 is the deal breaker for this kit. The launch-back is enormous, and the acid pool you leave behind will tick for 700-900. That’s a huge tick, on top of the other conditions that should be ticking on your target.

I totally forgot to mention the confuse and blind on pistol #3. The amount of conditions at an engineer’s disposal at any one time defines the class for me. It’s all about knowing what to apply, when, and how often depending on the encounter. It’s fun and very rewarding.

TL;DR – My way of playing condition damage Engi is the best way.

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

I’m saying it is wasted.

Its simply not efficient.

You’re better off spending on vit, toughness, healing or anything else.

1. healing is the most useless stat ingame
2. Damage scales linearly with Power
3. Each point of Power increases attack by one
4. most of the engi abilities are hybrid in damage.
5. you already get precision, which would make every point of power more efficient in the end. you can cover most of your durability by CC and traits.

has anyone actually tested the scaling? you throw in some assumptions but just because the base damage from explosive shot is lower does not mean that it has different power scaling. I was always under the impression that pistol direct damage was lower because of the low base damage of the abilities and pistols compared to rifle.

scaling alone does not make power crit builds better. high base damage obviously means more direct damage and more benefit from direct damage boosts.

Its not assumptions, I’ve read old patch notes where they change the scaling.
One skill would have a scaling modifier of 0.5, one of 0.3, one of 1.1

Power is not a linear modifier, and pistols are on the low side, and is thus an inefficient stat.

Numbers. someone else do the math for me. Busy with work, can’t spend more time atm.
This is on my level 80 engi in Orr, so no downleveling. While the HotM is HotM.
p/p level 80 mastercraft pistol mh, level 76 offhand.
Attack:1970
p 1164, wd 806 /765 offhand.
1. 141
2. 141
3. 141
4. 104

Attack: 2040 (2 stacks might) 70 power
p 1234, wd 806/765
1. 149
2. 149
3. 149
4. 111

Attack: 2180 (6 stacks might) 210 power
p 1374, wd 806/765
1. 166
2. 166
3. 166
4. 124

p/p level 45 white pistols
Attack: 1679
p 1135, wd 544
1. 52
2. 52
3. 52
4. 43

Attack: 1749 (2 stacks might)
p 1135, wd 544
1. 56
2. 55
3. 55
4. 46

Attack: 1889 (6 stacks might)
p 1345, wd 544
1. 62
2. 62
3. 62
4. 51

pvp heart of the mist.
Attack: 2270
p 1241, wd 1029
1. 159
2. 182
3. 182
4. 150

pvp heart of the mist.
Attack: 3193
p 2164, wd 1029
1. 278
2. 317
3. 317
4. 262

Very odd. out of spvp, 1-3 scale the same it seems. IN hotm, suddenly 1 is not the same as 2/3.
I am not seeing the cause for this.

ok, quickly. level 80 weapons.
2 stacks might 70 power increased 1-3 by 8 damage.
But with level 45 weapons mightx2 only increased 1-3 by 4-3 damage.

so power is multiplied into your weapon damage somehow. Overall attack # seems irrelevant. It is not additive with weapon damage.
Need more tests then.
We need a weapons without any power on them for better testing.
Need to get 2 level 80 exotics without power on them.. outside of HotM.

I “think” explosive shot might be bugged in Spvp. I see no reason why it would give those values.
and look.
my outside of spvp p1. with 6 stacks might, 1374 power, 806 weapon damage.mastercraft
166 damage.
While in heart of the mist, 1241 power, and 1029 weapon damage, exotic
159 damage.

And look at the hotm values.
923 power change. 119 damage, 135/135, and 112 changes.
.13, .146, .12 coeffs on power.
Now take those coeffs and apply them to the 1241 power, and 2164 power I listed as my stats.
159, 181, 181, 149
278, 316,316,260
As if weapon damage have 0 impact. this can only mean one thing. Damage is power x weapon. not +

It also means those coeff’s change with weapon damage.

its going to be.
weapon coeff x power x skill coeff.

We can find weapon coeff at level 80 by:
White weapon with no power on it, and compare it to a green, blue, rare, and exotic weapon. Skill and power won’t change. so we can get that weapon value.

From there we can lock down skill values, by changing power, while keeping weapon the same.

Casia.4281:

Condition builds are inherently damage over time. So I never recommend glass cannon with them.
Prec/tough/cond for p/p. or prec/vit/cond.

p/p damage is not remotely pure cond damage. And you do gain from power, prec largely.

There are additional secondary effects as well. Retaliation. Static discharge. For example. These scale with power.

Any idea where to find such armors without spending endless amount of time on dungeon grinding?

TA and HotW have a prec/tough/cond set irrc.
Orr venders sell green prec/tough/cond.

thought, craft had vit/cond/prec, but dont see it. must have been mistaken.
May have to reroll stats in the mystic forge to get it.

Crit grenades. That is all.

My current hybrid setup I run with a mix of precision / power / crit damage (armor + weapon) and precision / power / condition (jewelry) with runes for precision / condition.

I run rifle – healing turret – flamethrower – rocket boots / elixir S – elixir C / Tool kit / elixir B – Hounds of Balthazaar

With a 10 30 0 10 20 trait setup. The key traits are juggernaut + static discharge + protection injection.

You get good burst / power damage from rifle 5-6k crits on soft targets with jumpshot. While still doing 550-600 a tick with burning, and decent bleed damage as well.

percision power condition gear is rampagers. It can be crafted using the venom sacs dropped by mobs such as spiders, devourers, wasps, hylek, and some types of skale. After carrion they are the easiest exotic set to craft thanks to large numbers of risen hylek, and risien spiders in cursed shore.

ok. Have a breather.

First. toolitp for HOTM explosive shot is wrong. while testing, I noted, the value it stated, is not the value I was hitting targets for. The actual damage dealt follows the proper scaling.

I myself, could not make any sense of the formula. however, I found another’s testing that shows promise. I have no idea where the 916 comes from. I was using average damage, but max damage works. It should be noted. spvp attack does list your max damage, while outside of it, its average damage that is shown as attack.

tooltip- (max weapon damage * skill coeff * power/916)
pistol 1,2,3: .131 coeff
pistol 4: .1075 coeff

rifle coeff:
1: .208
3: .513 close, .321 far
4: .321
5: .2885 leap, .577 land