Guild Wars 2

So, because I (not so) subconsciously hate myself and like risky challenges, I decided to pick my engineer off the rightmost side of login screen after many hours with necro and thief over winter vacation. I tried a few popular builds (sparks, that goofy pistol+elixirs build that hasn’t been viable since BWE3, etc) but found them hugely lacking compared to what I was already doing with other classes. Not just a bit sub-par, but way lacking.

So I decided to re-approach the problem. What does the engineer do better than anyone else? Let’s try taking that to 11 and seeing what happens? The only answer I could come up with is "knockback, free-cast damage skills+sparks, and asynchronous damage sources (because like it or not, only ranger pets are better than turrets for defensive spvp, necro minions are WAY worse and everyone else’s async skills have a lot more baggage involved).

The build I tried: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqyUnrynF1LJxoHMm0bOUB8Lqg+/oQu0F;TkAg1CnoKyUkoIbRuikFN4A

(please note that this build calculator doesn’t show the correct skills for healing turret, the toolbelt skill is actually “drop the healing turret” which means that like with medkit you get another heal at 25% health).

The reason for those 20 in explosives is to get bigger knockback detonations on those turrets. So you can use 3 skill slots to position turrets, trigger them, and then detonate them for another knockdown. Between this and the rifle, you can juggle people for a very long time. Someone would have to fill their entire bar with stunbreakers just to keep up, and even then you’d have your rifle and toolbelt skills. Forceful Explosives and Accelerant Packed Turrets is a combo I think most of us know exists but I see very few people using. The knockback radius an damage are both impressive. And because I tended to drop, trigger and pop turrets, their durability was almost never an issue.

The goal of the build was to create solid damage and rely on CC for survivability in 1v1 and 1v2 situations, with the bomb kit coming into play for NvM (where M > 1) situations.

What actually happened was that I was consistently capable of annoying the hell out of people (to the point where in many cases people would just run away rather than deal with me 1v1), but I had no real way to kill them. Any sort of durable build had a nearly 100% chance of beating me.

So, my question to you–fellow disappointed and maligned engineer players–is: could we make this build better, perhaps even fun?

So given that I suffered a lack of finishing power and had reasonable durability at or over 2k armor, I ask:

1. What amulet? I tried several amulets (but not Knights, that’s my next thing to try) including celestial, rampagers, and berzerkers. Berzerker was great, but you die too fast below 2k armor. Rampager’s is the bare minimum, and it’s nice to have the condition damage for the rifle turret overcharge and bomb kit, but I suspect more power would be better.
2. Is the last 10 points in tools worthwhile? Would it make more sense to dump those into something else like marksmanship for Hair Trigger, or 10 more into alchemy for Self-Regulating Defenses? Or perhaps close out Explosives to get Explosive Powder?
3. What runes and sigil could be better? The intelligence sigil was there only for when I was using the celestial amulet. Should I try an Air Sigil for extra punch on rifle? Likewise the Lyssa runes are there to add critical chance, increase CC duration slightly, and add another source of boons besides the Alchemy minor.

It looks alright, but I’ll just give you some quick pointers:

1) Invisible while immobilized is worthless once you start playing anyone with half a brain. Engineers only have one non-combo source of stealth from their abilities, and one trait method.
2) No stunbreaker. Your own personal defense is kind of limited due to this fact. Sure you’ve got a lot of point control, with the current turret spam. However, consider what’ll happen when you end up going against a ranger who just doesn’t care? He stays off the point, his pet encourages you to waste your bombs on it instead (and the moment it gets low, he’ll just swap it out and get 2s of quickness to hammer you with – even worse if he’s using dual hound pets to fear you off the point). Same thing can happen with a mesmer, albeit much worse.

I’d personally discard the static discharge idea, dump rifle turret, pick up Elixir S and Toolkit. Magnet + Prybar will usually get most classes in a pinch, the toolbelt skill (Throw Wrench) is fantastic (especially if you trait it, which you’d be doing if you took out static discharge), and Gear Shield is god tier (OH NOES I’M IMMOBILIZED AND – oh wait I’m immortal suckers), as it’s the fastest cooldown block in the game (3s block every 16s is pretty nice).

Kamahl.3621:

(3s block every 16s is OMGWTFBARBEQUEINCREDIBLE).

FTFY.

Seriously, this skill is amazing.

Kamahl.3621:

It looks alright, but I’ll just give you some quick pointers:

1) Invisible while immobilized is worthless once you start playing anyone with half a brain. Engineers only have one non-combo source of stealth from their abilities, and one trait method.
2) No stunbreaker. Your own personal defense is kind of limited due to this fact. Sure you’ve got a lot of point control, with the current turret spam. However, consider what’ll happen when you end up going against a ranger who just doesn’t care? He stays off the point, his pet encourages you to waste your bombs on it instead (and the moment it gets low, he’ll just swap it out and get 2s of quickness to hammer you with – even worse if he’s using dual hound pets to fear you off the point). Same thing can happen with a mesmer, albeit much worse.

I’d personally discard the static discharge idea, dump rifle turret, pick up Elixir S and Toolkit. Magnet + Prybar will usually get most classes in a pinch, the toolbelt skill (Throw Wrench) is fantastic (especially if you trait it, which you’d be doing if you took out static discharge), and Gear Shield is god tier (OH NOES I’M IMMOBILIZED AND – oh wait I’m immortal suckers), as it’s the fastest cooldown block in the game (3s block every 16s is pretty nice).

Thanks for the feedback. I think dropping static might be a sound idea, but the big problem with this build is the lack of damage. You’re shooting a pellet gun at someone in full armor…

Right now this build has 5 kbs (FIVE! FIVE knockdowns! Four of which are easy to pull off with deployable turrets, and the cooldown of the rifle and healing turret is very low), & 3 imms (glue bomb, rifle net, net turret toolkit skill), so in small scale engagements the defense is proactive juggling and for the first 10 seconds of the engagement the fight is incredibly one-sided if you play it right. It just lacks the damage to follow through. Do you think it’d be worth dropping the rifle turret for the toolkit when that costs damage potential (overcharged rifle turret + explosion is >2k damage easily) for additional defense?

On itemization, I’m actually sort of wondering if crit% + critdam is the way to get better damage, though. Rangers use this to great effect with the shortbow, and engineers can deliver a lot of hits.

But maybe dropping rifle turret and adding toolkit would let me use Zerker gear.

EDIT: I actually sort of wonder if the turret knockdowns are justification enough for the traits I have put there, and bomb kit is a red herring for this build. Because having toolkit would synergize well with the existing turrets and add magnet, for SIX on-command knockdowns, and it’s arguable that the toolkit offers more damage than the bomb kit for this build.

Something like: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqyVnpSyF1LJxoHMW0bOUhCLqg+/oQu0F;TkAg0CtoKyUkoIbRuikFNKB

Hey so I really like your build idea, it’s pretty cool. So I did some experimenting in the build editor and here’s what I got.

*Note that I am not the master of engineers, so I could be wrong with my ideas

Here’s the link to a build reflecting the changes that I would suggest. You’ll probably have to copy and paste it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyUnrynF1LJxIFMm0hKgfRFq8nHylutF;TsAg1CtosxYjwGrNObk2Mi4QwcBA

“1.What Amulet?”

I kept the Rampagers Amulet, but I put a Soldiers jewel for a bit more survivability ( I like being durable more vs damaging).

“2. Is the last 10 points in tools worthwhile?”

In my opinion, not really. It’s good for keeping your explosions and CC up more, but if you’re not able to kill people, then you should invest a little more in power.

So what I would suggest is to put those 10 points into explosives and get Explosive powder like you said. The extra 10% damage is just awesome, and the minor trait gives vulnerability, which is great as well.

“3. What runes and sigil could be better?”
I put in Dolyak Runes because I like the regen and tankyness it gives you. On the weapons I put minor sigils of accuracy and corruption so as you kill people your precision and cond. damage get better.

Now, some other changes I put in:
Changed the Alchemy trait to IV Self-Regulating Defenses. This trait has saved me countless times, and with about 20k hp, it’ll be going off when you’re at about 5k hp.
The protection is nice, but I’d rather have 3 sec of almost invulnerability

The other change I’d like to mention is the weapons. You mentioned the purpose of the build was to use a lot of CC, and the shield on the engineer is awesome at it. The 4 skill reflects projectiles, blocks attacks, and has an AoE knockback. This skill can be used in a variety of ways to mess with your opponent and can be used really easily. The 5 skill is one of my favorite skills on the engineer ’cause I feel like Captain America when I use it, plus the boomerang daze effect is pretty sweet.

Hope this generates some ideas for your build. I actually want to try it sometime on my engi.

EDIT: If you decide to take out Bomb kit (I would) and get Tool kit, I’d put on a soldier’s amulet with a soldiers jewel instead.

I’m not sure what to tell you, or how to build yourself. Giving up one skill forfeits some potential in exchange for others. I’ll be honest, here is my experience at the moment with my current build (and the details on current build), with weaknesses that my old build didn’t have an issue with:

I currently run rifle, medkit, elixir S, grenade kit, and toolkit. I have issues with good mesmers (of course they’re abusing the F3 → F1 shatter bug), and decent rangers, due to how obnoxious their pets are. Rangers are a complete pain because half the time I try to line up my kill combo (you’ve used rifle, you know how it operates – but to sum it up for those who don’t, overcharged shot into freeze grenade into shrapnel grenade, net shot, grenade barrage, and then either magnet → prybar or if I was close enough, prybar → blunderbuss), I end up hitting their pet instead, or the pet knocks me down mid-combo.

I didn’t have these issues when I ran bomb kit. At least not with rangers. Their pets were often blind, confused, burning, crippled, etc. Big Ol’ Bomb is /amazing/ for crowd control, as it usually covers the entire point on a relatively short cooldown. However, if I got rooted, my defense options were limited without toolkit – I could blow Elixir S (I usually use this to ensure either a fast stomp or to avoid a mesmer burst). The nerf to grenade kit didn’t help either, as it now takes 2-3 attacks to kill a clone, and 3-5 to kill a phantasm. Usually by that point they’re already shattering me, so I now literally ‘waste’ grenade barrage on one phantasm. Thanks again for the nerf Anet, delayed ground-targeted AoE with spread couldn’t possibly be allowed to have competitive qualities.

JuniorSB.7089:

Hey so I really like your build idea, it’s pretty cool. So I did some experimenting in the build editor and here’s what I got.

Thanks!

JuniorSB.7089:

“2. Is the last 10 points in tools worthwhile?”

In my opinion, not really. It’s good for keeping your explosions and CC up more, but if you’re not able to kill people, then you should invest a little more in power.

So what I would suggest is to put those 10 points into explosives and get Explosive powder like you said. The extra 10% damage is just awesome, and the minor trait gives vulnerability, which is great as well.

This is really tempting. The +10% cooldown reduction and +10% crit damage is also pretty awesome, but 10% flat damage increase is very tempting as well as the vuln and Moar Power™.

JuniorSB.7089:

“3. What runes and sigil could be better?”
I put in Dolyak Runes because I like the regen and tankyness it gives you. On the weapons I put minor sigils of accuracy and corruption so as you kill people your precision and cond. damage get better.

I think the Lyssa runes actually help this build more with staying alive. The big problem is the lack of condition mitigation (which is a problem engineers have in general). Having your elite become an epic awesome fight resetter is fantastic.

A really fun question, “Do turrets count as companions?” If so, the Ranger runeset might be cool!

JuniorSB.7089:

Now, some other changes I put in:
Changed the Alchemy trait to IV Self-Regulating Defenses. This trait has saved me countless times, and with about 20k hp, it’ll be going off when you’re at about 5k hp.
The protection is nice, but I’d rather have 3 sec of almost invulnerability

Yeah this is a tough choice for me, too.

JuniorSB.7089:

The other change I’d like to mention is the weapons. You mentioned the purpose of the build was to use a lot of CC, and the shield on the engineer is awesome at it. The 4 skill reflects projectiles, blocks attacks, and has an AoE knockback. This skill can be used in a variety of ways to mess with your opponent and can be used really easily. The 5 skill is one of my favorite skills on the engineer ’cause I feel like Captain America when I use it, plus the boomerang daze effect is pretty sweet.

I think the biggest problem I have with this combo is how lousy the pistol is. It’s easily one of the worst weapons in the game and without stacking more condition damage just doesn’t do much at all. But yes, the shield is one of the best offhand weapon sets out there.

JuniorSB.7089:

Hope this generates some ideas for your build. I actually want to try it sometime on my engi.

The juggling is crazy funny. I think there is probably a full bunker build based around this, too. Because I had people deciding to run away rather than fight me for a point because I was so irritating. People were whispering to me that my build was annoying, “You are the most annoying build in human history,” one gc thief whispered to me.

“You are the most annoying build in human history,” one gc thief whispered to me.

I loled pretty hard at this.

JuniorSB.7089:

“You are the most annoying build in human history,” one gc thief whispered to me.

I loled pretty hard at this.

But my damage was so bad I had a hard time killing him.

Btw, fun point: stunbreaker is not super necessary for this build because you can detonate large-radius knockdown turrets while stunned. Keeping a turret nearby means you can throw people down.

I’ve made a similar build before. It’s definitely more for fun rather than actual viability, since anyone worth anything will either just pop stability and run through a burst combo on you or he will just pewpew you from range, since the knockback range on turrets is atrocious.

Speaking of which, have you actually tested that forceful explosives increases the explosion radius of the turret explosion? Last I checked, it didn’t. If it does now, great.

My build used throw mine instead of the net turret, and the toolbelt skill was insanely good with static discharge. It’s just the worst idea to give up static discharge in this build since you have so many ways to proc it.

As to the lack of a stunbreaker – turret exploding and mine exploding is instant cast. Instead of stunbreaking, this type of build’s main defense is to stick near your turrets/mines and simply explode them anytime someone tries to stunburst you. That’s also the main reason this build lacks defense against a stability burst combo, though.

I actually went soldier’s amulet with this build so I didn’t have to worry about crits and I would have immense survivability without a stunbreaker. I also went into vit to grab self-regulating defenses for a last-ditch survival attempt.

In the end, chain-cc builds are lots of fun against people who don’t know what they’re doing, but they’ll fall off in usefulness as you fight better players.

Aegael.6938:

Speaking of which, have you actually tested that forceful explosives increases the explosion radius of the turret explosion? Last I checked, it didn’t. If it does now, great.

I am pretty sure that the bugs with forceful are currently fixed. The radius is much bigger than I remembered it (which was crazy small). The bugs with evasive powderkeg’s range seem to be fixed too.

Just tested. Neither of those things appear to have been fixed. Evasive powder keg and kit refinement bombs both have effectively zero range when traited with forceful explosives, and forceful explosives doesn’t affect turret explosions.

Tested with turrets by standing just outside untraited explosion radius and then equipping the forceful explosives trait.

Huh, I guess it was just bigger than I remembered.

Upshot, that’s a free trait that doesn’t have to be devoted to turrets.

After a bunch more work, I’ve decided this build is rubbish, like the class. There’s really no point to pursuing it except in very specific teamfight scenarios that don’t make any sense.