Guild Wars 2

Have any engi “mains” been invited or allowed into a decently high end GvG or WvW raid? If so what build are you running!! I’m no god at engi, but it seems to be more than just my lack of leet skeet skills keeping me out of GvG and top tier zerg busting/havoc runs. The entire class seems to get a bad wrap.

I know this has probably been harped on time and time again but I’ve only been back a few months and this seems to be the consensus in every tier of play, from T8 To T1, it’s all about stacking guards, a couple warriors, a couple pick team classes, and back line. All of which we aren’t the “best” at in comparison to the other classes. Are we forever destined to laid back WvW raids/pugs and 0 GvG play? I certainly hope the Forge makes us needed in some capacity, I’m not a fan of being unnecessary and other classes are boring…

For WvW raids i often logging on my Guardian to even get a group, sometimes it is frustrating as engineer, but in roaming or smaller groups it is good.

For GvG/GvW, engineer don’t lack anything, he can provide all the basis required to have a good use there : water fields (which are better than elem), high aoe (burst/)damages, aoe cc, massive conditions to buffs conversion, some good buffs (but very hard to share in practice).
But all this basis already come from GWEN+M+T, who are better specialist of their role than engineer, and/or who also bring an unique ability.
ATM, we can’t replace any of the GWEN+M+T, and we have nothing to bring over the basis, anything unique and essential.

First, we can’t be a serious frontliners anymore (no more cleric elixir infused bomb) especially in the current meta, so there is no way to take a GW place. Necro will always do better aoe damages, without sacrificing survivability. Mesmer have uniques habilities. We could compete with elem and thief but they are still better in their role than engineer would be.

The really best would be to come with our own role, that’s all, but which one ?

Reflects kill 95% of our usefulness.

Don’t think there is any guild that would rather have an engi.
Well there is a small niche of focus party support.

NineLives.8725:

First, we can’t be a serious frontliners anymore (no more cleric elixir infused bomb)

eib was not what made us able to frontline well.
cloaking device or the combo of prot injection + stabilized armor was (but cloaking device was way better).

Ok So i must admit that i have not had A LOT of experience in gvg. But i was fortunate enough to run with a couple of open minded commanders and have been successfully used in gvg scenario.
The engineer i feel has one of the most unique abilities to play both sides of the line. Not fully back line and never really front line but assisting on both ends. I wish I had the capacity to take video to show you how it work so i can only really explain i guess.

Opening up with mortar rounds I found my main priority in the very beginning of a fight was to get that ice field down in front of my tank train this had them leap/whirl/blast into it to start the fight with frost aura what i feel is one of the most underutilized auras especially with current hammer trains. after that Im spamming 1 into the blob waiting for the initial break up to drop my light field that blinds every 1 sec and poison field and spam mortar/grenades just to keep the back-line moving and not free casting. ::The entire time of this im between the tank train and the back-line:: Im close enough to provide my 1500 range water field to either the back or tank train (usually the tank train) followed or lead by an orbital strike to blast 2x and yes i can still get in close enough to provide additional water field and blast with healing turret. .

Once the blobs are at there closest points i assist with grenades providing potent damage and conditions including blinds and chills poisons and also grenade barrage which is a guaranteed 4-8k aoe hit. If the initial push really hurts the enemy team you can finish off low players with a well placed jump shot (warning you better have something to block your way out of the masses)

At any point if this becomes a jousting match you will be helping your team get back to 100% with your very low cool down water fields and on board blast finishers. You can pull over extenders or priority targets from an ungodly distance with magnet and turn the tide of the fight . Also if any of their gank crew find there way to your side . Rifle combo with grenade barrage will 100-0 any dps class.

I feel what engi trully brings the the gvg scene is a form of sustained damage cc and healing to the party. My water heal field is not as grand is ele staff 5 but its half the cool down and i have 2 of them and they are just as blast able. My mortar and grenades field separately will never be as good as nerco wells per cast but they have a lower cool down and can hit comparably as hard and i can spam them all day long.

People always talk about how the engineer can replace or be replaced by any other class and while this is true I really dont feel that is the point. We (engineers) are made to extend the available tool kit of said party. What ever build you want to run we can make it better.

And fun fact. In pve i believe it was stated ENGI is number 3 in greatest potential dps after ele/thief. I know this isnt pve but what im trying to say all this im doing is ALL doing damage and a dam good amount of it ta boot.

insanemaniac.2456:

NineLives.8725:

First, we can’t be a serious frontliners anymore (no more cleric elixir infused bomb)

eib was not what made us able to frontline well.
cloaking device or the combo of prot injection + stabilized armor was (but cloaking device was way better).

EIB didn’t make us able to frontline, I agree. But it sure helped. It was solid constant AoE healing for friendlies, and it worked wonders for the engineer themselves with back pack regenerator on top.

And oh how I miss protection injection + stabilized armor. I absolutely loved that trait combination.

This isn’t something I’ve personally run, but I have seen plenty of GvG/Raid vids of engineers playing in a pick-team.

Paired up with a thief or 2, the Engi performs a stealth+toolkit pull, then lays down the immob/hard-CC chain while the thief unloads the damage. The Engi throws in a few high burst skills (pry-bar, jump-shot, blunderbuss). With good coordination, a decent pick team can pick off a few high-value backline targets like elementalists/necros per minute.

Of course, with toolkit-magnet being horribly broken right now this is less viable, but with good positioning and timing you might still be able to make a pick team work.

If you’re interested, I’d suggest pairing up with some stealth/burst players and trying it out in a public zerg/blob fight.

Try to answer the questions :
When the places are limited (15), which class of GWEN+MT you remove to add an engineer ? What do you loss, and what does engineer would provide in replacement ?

These are the questions any commander think about when he try to compose his rooster, and I can’t manage to find the right args to defend my own place …
When the places are not limited, there is no reason at all to reject an engineer with an adapted build, which will always bring some good tools, and contribute to the overall. But don’t tell you have a stuffed reroll, like a guard, they will always prefer one more guard instead of one more engi…

I agree that there’s aren’t many issues running Engi in an open WvW zerg, unless your commander is a super tryhard, but it’s still frowned upon if they know you have an 80 of any GWEN class. However, with limited space on a team for GvG, I definitely agree, who wants a mortar Engi when you can take a wells Necro or staff Ele? Who wants a flamethrower frontline Engi when you can just slot another guard to spam staff 1 or another warrior for banner? That’s the dilemma I feel Engi is in. We’re decent at everything with tons of utility, but bring nothing unique, and couldn’t outdo anyone else’s role…it’s depressing having all these tools that no one wants. It’s like lugging around a tool chest with thousands of options and the one time someone is like “I need a screwdriver” a Necro has one in their back pocket and says “Here ya go!” before you even get the opportunity. So your tears continue rusting said tools, as you hope for someone that needs them. QQ thanks Anet, now I’m making up depressing fictional anecdotes. Help Engi!

Mord.9237:

I agree that there’s aren’t many issues running Engi in an open WvW zerg, unless your commander is a super tryhard, but it’s still frowned upon if they know you have an 80 of any GWEN class.

pff, personally i tell anyone who asks that i have an 80 of every class. theyre all geared. or at least theyre in full exotics or better, but a couple are a mess, and if i wanted to play them i would clean them up (if needed) and play them. if someone were to ask me to change, id go take a camp instead cuz kitten that.

Yeah, I totally get it Insane, but the fact that we have to be rebellious in order to play the most fun class to us, optimal or not because “GWEN or nothing” is a load of bull. That’s I guess what I’m trying to get at, why should I have to hide in the shadows to try and sneak my Engi into a dedicated guild raid lol why can’t we be reworked or buffed in one of our many utility areas to excel at ONE thing!!

Instead it’s “What the.. was that a flamethrower? Whoa a grenade just flew past my head into that dude’s mouth, who the hell is playing Engi, get back on your Guardian Mord!!” Rofl a complete exaggeration of what my commander is like but come on arena net, why can’t I feel “optimal” at least for a few patches before we’re nerfed again.

Yeah, if your guild doesn’t let you play a perfectly viable profession “’cuz GWEN”, then you should probably find a new guild.

BTW, I run a front-line condi bomber, and I love it! I can usually outsurvive most comps in wvwvw… cuz Engineer.

Mord.9237:

Yeah, I totally get it Insane, but the fact that we have to be rebellious in order to play the most fun class to us, optimal or not because “GWEN or nothing” is a load of bull. That’s I guess what I’m trying to get at, why should I have to hide in the shadows to try and sneak my Engi into a dedicated guild raid lol why can’t we be reworked or buffed in one of our many utility areas to excel at ONE thing!!

Instead it’s “What the.. was that a flamethrower? Whoa a grenade just flew past my head into that dude’s mouth, who the hell is playing Engi, get back on your Guardian Mord!!” Rofl a complete exaggeration of what my commander is like but come on arena net, why can’t I feel “optimal” at least for a few patches before we’re nerfed again.

im not rebelling… at least… in my mind
ive been asked if i want to join raid/gvg guilds before but ive never really had the guild space or willingness to commit to a schedule, so idk if they would eventually get naggy about what i play. prolly would. dont care!

Why isn’t this lovely sounding build in my compilation thread Matty! Mind linking it, sounds right up my alley, with some sick defensive stats from Dire I’d assume

Most of the time, I have to educate them. I was amazed and baffled for a very long time, about how little most GWEN brainwashed players and commanders, actually knew.

I heard things like:
“Fumigate? What is that? It can clear how many conditions? On how short of a cool down? OMG, I didn’t know that.”

And

What? Engineer has water fields?

And My favorite from last night, I was running traited mortar, RB, Bombs, P/S, EG. I heard:

Wa…..wai……Wait, What? You have 7 blast finishers? In one build? How is that possible?

thats what i run

Based on Matty’s idea I threw this together Condi Explosive Master I haven’t gotten to try it out yet but it looks solid, though the choice between inventions and alchemy was rough but with the possibility of only having elixir S on my bar instead of rocket boots, making for very limited HGH or condi cleanse utility, I went with inventions!

We’re looking for a good Engi to play in the Focus Party.
They got some things that make them interesting (such as the previously mentioned pull).
So yes, there’s certainly use for Engi’s in organised GvG/GvW/GvZ or whatever you want to label things, but it’s pretty much a niche. A very interesting niche that I’d personally enjoy to see being explored more.

in my opinion inventions without alchemy is really weak. I don’t like to be obliged to take alchemy but it is the only way to clean condition . Inventions remove only 1 condition .At least in spvp you don’t go too far without alchemy .

Pride.1734:

Reflects kill 95% of our usefulness.

Don’t think there is any guild that would rather have an engi.
Well there is a small niche of focus party support.

Wrong. I’m part of a huge guild, that does T1 wvw, and they love my engi.
“Reflects kill 95% of our usefulness” —Wrong.
1) Drop elixir 5 or mortar 4 at your feet, and start cleansing conditions with mortar.
2) Drop a water, blast it 2×. Or
3)Have someone drop firefield to stack might for your raid. Or give your raid aoe retal.
4) Pull someone. Kill that someone
5) Stomp someone with elixir S
6) Create your own reflects

I almost strictly run engi in wvw, sometimes necro, and my guild loves what I do. Pulls/lockdowns very useful.

Malpractice.7850:

Pride.1734:

Reflects kill 95% of our usefulness.

Don’t think there is any guild that would rather have an engi.
Well there is a small niche of focus party support.

Wrong. I’m part of a huge guild, that does T1 wvw, and they love my engi.
“Reflects kill 95% of our usefulness” —Wrong.
1) Drop elixir 5 or mortar 4 at your feet, and start cleansing conditions with mortar.
2) Drop a water, blast it 2×. Or
3)Have someone drop firefield to stack might for your raid. Or give your raid aoe retal.
4) Pull someone. Kill that someone
5) Stomp someone with elixir S
6) Create your own reflects

I almost strictly run engi in wvw, sometimes necro, and my guild loves what I do. Pulls/lockdowns very useful.

This.

Creative thinking is what makes good guilds/leaders. Meta is a crutch.

I guess I need to find the needle in a haystack guild that merits creativity over meta then. 98% of guilds use these “crutch” meta builds and classes, 90% of them have it listed in their recruitment posts that “you must run the guild builds” in other words “forget creativity, we have your gear selection and trait set ups that you must run.” These statistics are half made up and half sadly accurate. Maybe I’m playing the wrong game mode, but PvE is dreadfully boring :/ perhaps with the Forge/Scrapper announcement, we’ll bring some new unique utility that is preferred by guilds 98% of guilds!

Malpractice.7850:

Pride.1734:

Reflects kill 95% of our usefulness.

Don’t think there is any guild that would rather have an engi.
Well there is a small niche of focus party support.

Wrong. I’m part of a huge guild, that does T1 wvw, and they love my engi.
“Reflects kill 95% of our usefulness” —Wrong.
1) Drop elixir 5 or mortar 4 at your feet, and start cleansing conditions with mortar.
2) Drop a water, blast it 2×. Or
3)Have someone drop firefield to stack might for your raid. Or give your raid aoe retal.
4) Pull someone. Kill that someone
5) Stomp someone with elixir S
6) Create your own reflects

I almost strictly run engi in wvw, sometimes necro, and my guild loves what I do. Pulls/lockdowns very useful.

Most of what you listed is redundant, you don’t need yet more waterfields that is covered, you don’t need more blasts that is covered, etc, the reality has already been stated, there is a niche role in focus party and that is all, and even that is merely optional, especially since the reliability on magnet pull has become even more of a joke since the last big patch.

Mord.9237:

I guess I need to find the needle in a haystack guild that merits creativity over meta then. 98% of guilds use these “crutch” meta builds and classes, 90% of them have it listed in their recruitment posts that “you must run the guild builds” in other words “forget creativity, we have your gear selection and trait set ups that you must run.” These statistics are half made up and half sadly accurate. Maybe I’m playing the wrong game mode, but PvE is dreadfully boring :/ perhaps with the Forge/Scrapper announcement, we’ll bring some new unique utility that is preferred by guilds 98% of guilds!

well get a 5-target-limited static field, a leap, and some kind of block. usually “magnetizing” is a “reflect” buzzword in gw2 jargon, but mmorpg makes it sound like a block and not a reflect. gotta know what dat autoattack and 2 are to make a final judgment, but as it looks right now im under the impression that if we can be tanky enough to survive in the front line, we could be amazeballs cc bots. with water, fire, lightning, smoke, and blasts. the melee complement to a staff ele with control instead of damage.

Sounds indeed like we’ll be tanky melee train CC bots, I’m definitely looking forward to trying this out!! One gyro is confirmed to roam around curing conditions, that’s already hype!

Some very pointless things said in this topic, the answer is no, its currently not viable in high end gvg and even mid tier. It just doesn’t bring anything superior to the table that other classes accel at already, if played really well it can do something ofc, but it is just not as effective as other classes.

I love the engi and I hope the Forge brings something to the table for GvGs

it’s not forge it’s scrapper

What we need is an all engi Group As long as we don’t run into an all ele group we’ll be fine

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

Some very pointless things said in this topic, the answer is no, its currently not viable in high end gvg and even mid tier. It just doesn’t bring anything superior to the table that other classes accel at already, if played really well it can do something ofc, but it is just not as effective as other classes.

I love the engi and I hope the Forge brings something to the table for GvGs

Pretty much /thread. My expectations and realizations were confirmed. I hope the “Scrapper” brings something to a WvW raid and GvG that is actually needed. I think every die hard engi wants to be needed. We have so many tools at our disposal but no one wants to use them. Anywho, the Scrapper is already shaping up to be fun, as long as the Gyros aren’t terrible or easily killed.

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

I love the engi and I hope the Forge brings something to the table for GvGs

It is going to be called the Scrapper, see http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/10104/Guild-Wars-2-Its-Hammer-Time-The-Scrapper-Engineers-Elite-Specialization.html for a reveal of a few of the skills.

Yeah if the gyro’s are killable then, that’s dead already. So i’m pretty sure since they said it was guardian spirit weapons they took inspiration from. That they are not gonna be killable. Fingers crossed.