Guild Wars 2

Really wondering how this is going to work out with certain builds. With the new setup we can only pick up 3 trait lines (specializations) and from the looks of it we get to choose 1 major adept, master, and grand-master trait per line from the 3 options.

What worries me is how certain traits are going to be grouped. Such as, in a Static Discharge Build, will I still be able to pick up both Static Discharge and Speedy Kits.

With a 6/2/0/4/2 P/P Condi build, will I be able to get Hair Trigger still?

Not really worried, more so just curious has this is all going to work out.

Until there is more information, I doubt there is much discussion to be had, in all honesty.

No point in speculation now about how it affect current builds. All today builds will be outdated because thay said there will be changes in traits, merging, new traits and ofc new specialization, base stat changing and more. We will simply move on into new builds and new meta. They can be simillar or completly diferrent

Shaogin.2679:

With a 6/2/0/4/2 P/P Condi build, will I be able to get Hair Trigger still?

Doubt it unless hair trigger is merged into the ability. OTOH we will be able to go 6/0/0/6/6.

Welp, all that is certain is that rifle is still your go-to weapon-set if you want ranged dps and control, p/s offering the best survivability and p/p the best condi-pressure.

Our kits will mostly keep their identity as well, so FT stays the blast and burn machine, bombs will still provide aerial denial, EG & TK both come with great support/survivability, and nades will still be the backbone of any serious condi-build.

That said, the meta defines itself by looking into what people on the top came up with.
Those who win PvP tournaments define the PvP meta.
Dungeon-speedrunners & World-event commanders define the PvE meta
And the WvW meta is defined by top GvG guilds.

So the question is: will those people suddenly switch their profession(s) and go whole new ways? Or will they tend to hold to their currently comfortable playstyle as long as possible?
I tend to bet on the later, so it’s actually up to all of us (who are willing to do so) to run the numbers and experiment with what we deem as the new, most optimized trait-setup. The meta as we know it came along a really long road of people copying and refining other peoples ideas, so this process will just continue.
Most likely the meta will shift, but ever so slowly, and on the side of the road everybody will find their personal preferences on what to run. The builds of tomorrow will be different. But the playstyle they mirror will remain almost exactly the same.
I guess there is no reason to worry, since even tho the changes look big, they are actually impacting the way how most want to play rather insignificant.

Just f.e. necro-wells will now be ground-targeted per default, so most of our redundant traits will also streamlined with our utilities as well.
I expect bombs to have the range-increase from forceful explosives as default f.e. while dmg-increase and cd-reduction are things we still need to trait for.
Backpack-regenerator definitively will be something we need to trait for, but Cleansing Formula 409 could become a basic buff to elixirs in turn.
Maybe even static discharge will become a basic mechanic to our toolbelt-abilities.
I highly suspect speedy kits to become a basic buff to all kit-swaps as well.

especially for us engineers there are so many traits that rather give boon/condi-procs instead of utility/weapon-effects, so many of the current utility/weapon-effects could become a baseline.
Maybe we will see piercing projectiles as pistol default and rifle receiving 1.2k range as default.
Who knows, all I can say is that I’m really exited and can’t wait for tomorrows Q/A stream.

So, nobody has a summary from the twitch?

I don’t see any way to make a viable grenade or flamethrower build. Period.
Grenades lose 40% (!!!) of their range, and 100% of their fields. You can only take grenades cause vulnerability or grenades do full damage, not both, so they also lose substantial damage. The only buff they get is that one of the traits causes them to throw faster, so maybe they hit more often against player characters. But still, the most popular WvW engineer build just fell completely off the map.

I also don’t see how to make the most common flamethrower build any more. Yes, the stability in Juggernaut is nice but not at the cost of the extra toughness needed for a medium armor class to front-line; it’s not like we didn’t already have pretty fast recharging stability elsewhere. Also the traits that used to buff flamethrower damage and recharge as well as elixir gun are now elixir gun only, so unless that’s in one of the TBD slots or it got a substantial baseline buff, there goes about 10% or more of its damage.

Unless the Power Shoes trait gets rolled into the Gadget TBD trait or into Robo-Legs, that’s going to be yet another, third, nerf to several popular WvW builds; I know at least two engineers who count on that plus Rocket Boots as their travel skill.
In exchange, at a glance it looks to me like engineers get two new builds: a mortar kit build that does most of what grenade used to do, and a substantial buff to AoE healing builds of all kinds. Oh, and turrets seem more or less intact, other than the slight nerf to turret survivability that was announced earlier (turrets will be damaged and debuffed by conditions).

Did I see correctly that Med Kit’s #1 skill also does damage to opponents? The tooltip went by so fast I couldn’t make it out. That plus the buff turret, if the buff turret has good stats, could end up finally making med kit builds competitive with healing turret builds.

It was pretty clear that engineer is the most in-progress, incomplete of the core classes, but I have to say that what I’m seeing so far really worries me.

InfamousBrad.5879:

I don’t see any way to make a viable grenade or flamethrower build. Period.
Grenades lose 40% (!!!) of their range, and 100% of their fields. You can only take grenades cause vulnerability or grenades do full damage, not both, so they also lose substantial damage. The only buff they get is that one of the traits causes them to throw faster, so maybe they hit more often against player characters. But still, the most popular WvW engineer build just fell completely off the map.

Says here http://i.imgur.com/TAvQ5TU.jpg (taken from https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33qrg0/specialization_ama_livestream_notes/) that you get both vulnerability on explosions and increased explosion damage as minor traits, which is a dps boost since Reserve Mines is completely useless anyway. Sounds like Short Fuse will no longer affect grenades though, which kinda sucks, but hopefully that “damage vs targets w/vuln” trait makes up for it. And Shrapnel applying cripple is a nice change, though the mortar trait sounds pretty good too.

Looks like a lot of my current builds will be doa of hot :/
-massive nerf to grenades range, unless mortar is dramatically improved this is going to be a big deal in a lot of situations
-healing bombs apparently removed? (I’m assuming medkits dropped by bunker down are single target only?), replaced by heal finishers… not much help if you pre might stack fights – energized armor and performance enhancement gone, power shoes also gone. All hits to the build I run with my celestial setup.
-modified ammo and juggernaut now both grandmaster, juggernaut no longer stacks might
-incendiary ammo now moved to grandmaster in firearms, mainly an SPVP flexibility thing so not so bad for me at least
-stabilized armor gone, if stabilized does come back I imagine it will be in a higher tier mastery slot but again more a flexibility thing
-Also not gonna enjoy taking the entire tools line now as mandatory for speedy kits in basically every single build, might be forced to sacrifice current upgrades for centaur, speed or traveler runes for some builds otherwise I guess

They seem to be improving med kit for team support which is cool, but is it gonna be worth losing our only water field, additional blast finisher and perm regen? Have to wait and see.

Looks like a lot of stuff is still being sorted out so no idea how new builds are gonna work but it certainly looks like a bunch of my old ones are out the window.

Where are these engineer ch anges posted at?

Couple places, reddit and dulfy have notes.

I don’t see it as a massive nerf to nades. 1500 range was a convenience to me, not the main reason to use them. Nades are most effective at ~600 and closer anyways. The other traits seem like they will improve them even more at these ranges, the speed could even make them better up near 900.

I get that it is fun to hit things at 1500 range, and there are certain aspects of it that I will miss. I’m betting Mortar fills that role now, which I think is appropriate. I just think the 1500 range on nades is a lot more “look what I can do!” than actually meaningful. Any player actively looking at their monitor will rarely get hit by nades at that range.

As for the fields? Nades had one field that was useful in PvP modes but generally isn’t even considered that great of a field.

Just my opinions, but I’m far more pleased with the announced changes than I am disappointed in losing superfluous range on the nade kit.

Adamantium.3682:

I don’t see it as a massive nerf to nades. 1500 range was a convenience to me, not the main reason to use them. Nades are most effective at ~600 and closer anyways. The other traits seem like they will improve them even more at these ranges, the speed could even make them better up near 900.

I get that it is fun to hit things at 1500 range, and there are certain aspects of it that I will miss. I’m betting Mortar fills that role now, which I think is appropriate. I just think the 1500 range on nades is a lot more “look what I can do!” than actually meaningful. Any player actively looking at their monitor will rarely get hit by nades at that range.

As for the fields? Nades had one field that was useful in PvP modes but generally isn’t even considered that great of a field.

Just my opinions, but I’m far more pleased with the announced changes than I am disappointed in losing superfluous range on the nade kit.

The 1500 range on Grenades is the only weapon engineers have when attacking/defendig towers/keeps in WvW.
Unless Mortar attack speed and damage is buffed by at least 100% and the cooldown on #1 removed it will be useless as a replacement.

Also the merge of Speedy Kits & Kit Refinement is very annoying.
First of all Kit Refinement will be on cooldown 99% of the time when entering a fight anyway (not that it is very useful to begin with). And second, the glue trail, mine and magnet bomb have a high potential of putting you in combat, completely negating the benefits of speed.
Unless they give separate cooldowns for Kit Refinement to each kit and make it trigger only in combat this trait is pretty much useless now, and definitely not worthy of Master level.

I’m trying not to theorycraft this early but it’s practically impossible :-?

My 3 kit celestial is 6/0/0/4/4 – cele/pack – battle/accuracy, for reference

6 in explosives is there to stay, bleed+cripple chance, auto 10% dmg + dmg against vulnerable foes, APT as base, new grenadier suits my play style much more.

In short, shorter range for what looks like greater damage and kiting potential.

Now with IP in firearms it gets tricky…

I’m thinking firearms and alchemy for invigorating speed etc but I’d lose out on getting my toolbar recharge (which is where I keep my stunbreak).

The combined infused precision and vulnerability on crit has potential for stacking quicker and if these new robo boots do, indeed suplement swiftness in addition to runes of the Pack, speedy kits might not necessarily be the go to… Though I can’t see it giving swiftness out of combat :-?

If they turn out to be powershoes + Legmods +swiftness duration then they would be goldeN!

Alchemy… Little difference. Invigorating speed for vigor uptime, backpack regenerator plus automated medical respons!

TL:DR

I’d change this;

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpdrlcxELseNCbBNyx0GRuxq85DEgkC-TJBBwAAeAAeuAAF3fAcZAA

Into;

!same amulet, runes, sigils!

Explosives – grenadier, dmg vs foe with vul, shrapnel
Firearms – precise sights+infused precision, robo legs, incendiary powder+napalm specialist
Alchemy – invigorating speed, backpack regenerator, automated medical response.

I would however be very tempted to take mortar elite… But supply crate has a flame turret! And speculation of an F5 ability to detonate them on demand sounds great as a CC field.

So much to think about :-D

Does anyone know if the new “robo boots” trait will perserve the 25% movement speed increase from power shoes? that was kinda a big deal having a permanent speed buff. it seems like they are negating alot of things that made engineer good right now so I want to be sure.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

The 1500 range on Grenades is the only weapon engineers have when attacking/defendig towers/keeps in WvW.
Unless Mortar attack speed and damage is buffed by at least 100% and the cooldown on #1 removed it will be useless as a replacement.

But mortar is being buffed, they haven’t given the details but it seems clear that it will be far more viable in HOT.

I’m pretty sure most engis will be taking 6 in inventions after the revamp, and probably explosives as well to compliment it. If robot legs do in fact increase movement speed by 25%, I really think the new celestial build will be 6/6/6/0/0 rifle grenade or bomb, ft and egun. So many blasts for heals on low CD and increase burn that’s what I’m going with. It seems inventions has surpassed alchemy and tools well I don’t know what to think ATM.a

I’ve reposted this from Chaith’s specialisation thread to try to make a relatively close analogue to how the build plays.

I used a combination of Dulfy’s tool and Chaiths Google spreadsheet of proposals for TBD traits. .

A rough analogue of the current Rabid/Celestial Engi falls out like this

Traits
Firearms
Minors

• Sharpshooter: 33% crits cause bleeding for 2 seconds
• Target the Weak: 10% crit chance against foes <50% HP
• Target the Maimed: 5% damage bonus against bleeding foes
  Majors
• Pistol Condition Trait (Potent Coagulants): Foes affected by Glue attacks gain 4 seconds of Slow, 20% Pistol CDR. If Rifle Celestial, <600 range 10% crit bonus_ would be good for Jump Shot/Blunderbuss executes.
• ROBO LEGS: 33% snare reduction. 7% Bonus to Swiftness IMS.
• Incendiary Powder: Critical hits inflict 4 seconds of burning, ICD 10 seconds. 33% increased burn duration. (5.32 seconds Burning after self-synergy)

Alchemy
Minors

• Hidden Flask: Elixir B at 75% HP
• Transmute: Convert 1 condition to Boon on hit, ICD 10 seconds
• Fortified Catalyst: 1% damage reduction per Boon. 20% increased Boon duration
  Majors
• Invigorating Speed: 5 seconds Vigour when gaining Swiftness
• Backpack Regenerator: 120 HPS when holding a Kit
• HGH/FAE: 20% Elixir CDR. 2 Might for 20 seconds when using Elixirs.

Tools
Minors

• Adrenaline Pump: 10 Endurance when Toolbelt skill is used
• Inertial Converter: Recharge Toolbelt skills <25% HP
• Toolbelt 20% CDR trait: Exactly as it says on the tin
  Majors
• Power Wrench: 20% Toolkit CDR, 10% bonus damage, Cripple on Auto and Toolbelt
• Speedy Kits/Kit Refinement: 10 seconds Swiftness on swapping to Kit, 10 sec ICD. Cast spell dependant on kit swap once per 20 seconds.
• Field Antidote: Cleanse condition when landing toolbelt skill that affects enemies.

Weapon would be Pistol/Pistol Rabid, or Rifle Celestial.
Utilities would be:

• Grenade Kit: Velocity and Radius of Grenadier is hardly a big loss especially at effective pressure ranges of ~700 (Still need other skills to be in range after all). People learning GK may still want Explosives, but losing Incendiary Powder cripples the build. A hyper offensive Explosives/Firearms/Tools variant might work, but would require Traveller’s Runes (sacrifices offensive stats) or Infused Precision and lose out of combat IMS for rotations.
• Toolkit: Obvious pick due to Power Wrench now in Adept.
• Elixir S (North America) or Elixir Gun (Europe). Elixir Gun variation would drop Invig Speed to put in Elixir Gun trait and use Energy Sigil; also dropping HGH/FAE for…something.
• Supply Crate (Teamfight) or Mortar (roamer). With the nerfs to Turrets, Mortar is looking really good; but lacks the CC potential/Med Kit heals to turn fights around. Not sure on this one.

It’s still too early to say how the devs will go ahead with filling out the rest of the TBD traits. There are a couple things I do think should be addressed before things are “baked in” so to speak:

• Making Kit Refinement controllable by adding an On Next attack or On swapping away from X kit trigger to the spell. Individual KR spell cooldowns instead of GCD is useful but not essential; the key is control.

• Addressing the loss of Rifle Mod, Enduring damage and Sitting Duck for Berzerker Rifle builds. It’s anywhere from 10-20+% damage loss for a build that is already off-meta. Without a rework to the Firearms Minor traits as I proposed in this post Engineer will be constrained to a largely Hybrid or Condition centric build pool.

• Without changes to Firearms then all falls to the Elite Specialisation tree to bring Zerker Rifle back from the dead; and that tree still has to incorporate the Drone traits and Hammer traits from the Trailer .

• Static Discharge now competes with Power Wrench as well; which is quite crippling.

• The TBD Gadget Trait needs to be absolutely ridiculous; or baseline effects of Gadgets need to be reworked. As it is, Kits were buffed; as were Turrets through trait compression and baseline effects. Gadgets will languish without something that adds cleanse, or sustain, or added functionality beyond a CC focus.

We also need to wait to see what sort of skills hammer will have perhaps it will replace meta completely we still don’t know.