Guild Wars 2

I pray that somebody at ArenaNet will read this, but I doubt that. They haven’t addressed any of our longstanding concerns in the last two years, why start now?

Holosmith is going to land just like Scrapper did. ArenaNet doesn’t seem to acknowledge this, but I’ll address the elephant in the room. Here’s the crux of the problem with Holosmith: Our core trait lines, weapons, utilities are still bungled. Holosmith does nothing to resolve these longstanding issues.

For those cheering on the new elite spec, remember: Holosmith is only one specialization out of three trait lines you must choose. The other two traits lines you pick will be predetermined based on whether you’re power or condi, PvP, PvE, or WvW.

Allow me to explain:

In General:

• All new utilities must compete with the power of kits. As it stands, kits still reign supreme in most game modes when compared to other utilities. How do the new utilities stack up?
• Only hard light arena seems unique enough to be worth consideration in PvE.
• Spectrum shield seems to be the only one worth consideration in PvP, and will be used to replace the bulwark gyro.
• Laser Disk is virtually identical to Procession of Blades, but it doesn’t compare to bomb kit, and will not see much use.
• Photon Wall is approximately Shield of Courage without the stunbreak, and a shorter cooldown. This only seems to be valuable for WvW.

In PvP:

• All engineer builds for PvP require Alchemy currently. That is because it is our only traitline that features any defensive capabilities. Only one trait in the holosmith line addresses this issue. If you are running a power build, this will be your primary minor trait.
• If you are running conditions, I guarantee you will be running Firearms and Alchemy as your two side traits, and there will be almost no exceptions.
• If you are running power, you will probably still have grenades on your utility slot and you will be running Explosives and Alchemy. Nothing in the new profession matches the damage grenades still present.
• Enemies will still be able to run circles around us unless you are in the Photon Forge mode.

In PvE:

• Current PvE builds will likely remain as the top competitors.
• For power builds, sword will not present enough of a damage boost when compared to the bomb kit. That’s right, you’ll still be playing Bomberman if you’re a power engi in PvE. Photon Forge will grant access to some variety, at the very least.
• For condi builds, sword does little and we’ll still be using P/P. We’ll see our rotations become more complicated thanks to the burning of photon forge, and it’s pretty likely that we’ll be playing an even longer opera (assuming the burning is worth the time).

And I don’t know enough about WvW to say, but it looks like holosmith doesn’t resolve the issue of ranged AoE damage that engineers are still lacking. At least it fixes the mobility issue to a limited extent.

Meanwhile:

• Turrets and gadgets (and associated traits) will continue their long descent into the irrelevant abyss.
• Potions (and associated traits) will still remain situational and prone to random chance.
• Rifle (and associated traits) will remain underpowered.
• Glitches with the class will still be unaddressed. (Don’t see your legendaries now? You won’t in Photon Forge either!)
• Other QoL issues will not be addressed.

Sad times. I’m still trying to remain optimistic as we haven’t tried the classes hands, but i’d rather go into the expansion with extremely low hopes than high hopes.

I want back my turrets. I don’t care about anything else.

Just give us a new AI window so we can activate it manually. More buttons to press, I dont care. I just want to have more control on my turrets.

Also it needs a bit more HP, for a static turret with higher cooldowns, it sure dies faster than minions. What a joke anet.

I have a feeling anet will do a more meaty balance pass alongside the expansion’s release

Wait till we can test the spec. You may end up loving it.

Frightlight.3796:

Wait till we can test the spec. You may end up loving it.

I’d love to believe that, but unless they make a major balance pass soon that fixes many of our outstanding problems (which I doubt they’ll fix), I don’t see how holosmith will really improve the situation.

I think lots are overly pessimistic. The same always expecting some kind of surprise overhaul to the profession, yet disappointed when it doesn’t happen.

It’s been 5 years, I can’t begin to force myself to continue caring that half of the utilities are trash.

As for the other specializations, they’re not as messed up in PvP as most will lead you to believe.

All I can elaborate further on that is that in PvP, don’t underestimate Explosives, Firearms, and Tools just because Scrapper had no synergy with them, it doesn’t mean Holosmith won’t as well.

Explosives and Firearms with Holosmith (not together) will be a thing. The existence of Holosmith will elevate those specs

In WvW, grenades are too much of a retaliation liability, always have, but a Crystal Configuration: Storm power Holosmith will have plenty of AoE with a mid range, and the elite skill will be a killer too.

Sounds like every issue you have is with the core class and should be solved with a balance patch, not a new elite spec. We’ll get a balance patch on the 8th, hopefully it will solve some of this problems.

Are.1326:

Sounds like every issue you have is with the core class and should be solved with a balance patch, not a new elite spec. We’ll get a balance patch on the 8th, hopefully it will solve some of this problems.

In my opinion, it is the Core Profession in general that is the issue and not the Elite Specs. The design of Core Profession is “Jack of All Trades but Master of None” but that does not work so well when put with Elite Specs that Focus on a Specific role such as Scrapper being a Crowd Control/Tank Elite Spec and Holosmith being a Pure DPS Elite Spec.

With other Professions their Core specialize in a specific area and adding Elite Specs adds a additional Specialization to go with what their Core already Specialize in or improve on what they already Specialize in. However, Engineers “Jack of All Trades but Master of None” nature at the Core Profession means they do not truely Specialize in any area but cover all areas at a subpar level for being able to cover all areas. Due to this Engineer is always a bit “shorter” when Elite Spec is added on to it compared to other Core Profession when a Elite is added on to them.

Think of it like this, Core Engineer being a Jack of all trades is a build that is equally designed in appearance always having room that covers all the needs of a Business and all average and skilled workers can interact with each other. They are all in equal access to each other and working together but no section of the business can be properly specialized due to no actual focus in their skilled workers use of abilites only for focusing only on advance part of the business.

The other Core Profession are Buildings that have a part of itself taller than one side or longer than one side. The Taller side or Longer side is used for where the more skilled workers go while the smaller/shorter side is where the average workers are. They’re not equal but one side of their business can focus on specializing in a area while the average workers focus on dealing with smaller tasks to make up for where the Business lacks.

Now you add Elite Specs as expansion to these buildings so more Specialized skilled workers can join the team for this Business but these new additions can only focus in one area. The Other Pofessions can now focus on specializing into two areas or improve on a area they already have with this expansion but for Core Engineer this will be the first time they can Specialize in a specific area but the rest of the areas will always not specialize in something.

Are.1326:

Sounds like every issue you have is with the core class and should be solved with a balance patch, not a new elite spec.

That’s kind of my point, actually. Since elite specs still make use of core specs, they’re still slapping a bandaid on top of an existing issue. Without fixing existing issues, our shiny new toy will simply feel hollow.

Vagrant.7206:

Are.1326:

Sounds like every issue you have is with the core class and should be solved with a balance patch, not a new elite spec.

That’s kind of my point, actually. Since elite specs still make use of core specs, they’re still slapping a bandaid on top of an existing issue. Without fixing existing issues, our shiny new toy will simply feel hollow.

I see what you did there at the end… still. Base Engineer used to be really good at dueling as opposed to stalling. Can we get back to that? The good at dueling part not the camping. I keep hearing this jack of all trades talk which there is some truth to that but it was good at something (blowing people up in 1v1) and people seem to forget that.

if they fix the existing issues, especially in a way that isnt your vision, i think youll have a hard time accepting it. and youll just find new issues in another couple months anyways.

insanemaniac.2456:

if they fix the existing issues, especially in a way that isnt your vision, i think youll have a hard time accepting it. and youll just find new issues in another couple months anyways.

That’s certainly possible. I’m just not going to hold my breath for this next balance patch until I see it.

LilBiM.3581:

Vagrant.7206:

Are.1326:

Sounds like every issue you have is with the core class and should be solved with a balance patch, not a new elite spec.

That’s kind of my point, actually. Since elite specs still make use of core specs, they’re still slapping a bandaid on top of an existing issue. Without fixing existing issues, our shiny new toy will simply feel hollow.

I see what you did there at the end… still. Base Engineer used to be really good at dueling as opposed to stalling. Can we get back to that? The good at dueling part not the camping. I keep hearing this jack of all trades talk which there is some truth to that but it was good at something (blowing people up in 1v1) and people seem to forget that.

In theory Holosmith will do that, but thief seems to be more oriented towards that playstyle.

What activity in the game Engie CAN do decently at the moment?
What thing Engie is REALLY BAD at right now?

Answer these questions and you’ll see engie is not really a Jack of all Trades at this time.

Ardid.7203:

What activity in the game Engie CAN do decently at the moment?
What thing Engie is REALLY BAD at right now?

Answer these questions and you’ll see engie is not really a Jack of all Trades at this time.

It is considered a “Jack of All Trades but Master of None” because it literally covers everything but Master none of it because the effictiveness is just reduced to a point that the other Professions can do better at that certain areas due to being more focused in Mastering those areas.

Engi can be a buffer, clenser, tank, or etc but it can never master any of those roles due to how subpar the skills have been reduced. As I said before I believe Anet is just afriad of making Core Engineer into a “Jack of All Trades and Master of All” thus they keep up this “Jack of All Trades and Master of None” design to prevent their fear from happening when it has proven to be the down fall of Engineer’s design due to the introduction of Elite Specs focusing on specific roles.

Honestly, while I like the Elite specs and what they attempt to do for Engineer, it feels more like they are trying to cover a Scar with a Bandage by focusing on letting the Elite Specs cover Engineer’s ability to Master a certain role while leaving Core Engineer in a “Master of None” state instead of adjust Core Engineer into something that can be a Master of -Something-

A lot of backlash to Holosmith’s reveal and design is more often the result of it not being a Elite Spec that can make Engineer Specialize in Utility/Support buffing because the Core Engineer does not Master that in any way. If Core Engineer had a decent mastery of utility/support buff for groups this backlash would not be a issue to certain people but it is and the source is the Core Engineer’s design to be a Master of None.

I disagree.

The probervial “Jack of all trades” NEEDS to be second or at least third choice for any activity. Engie is the LAST choice for many duties. That makes him a “Jack of some trades, crap for others”.

I call core engineer a condition & power damage specialist whether it’s PvP or PvE- hard to understand why it’s referred to as a Jack of all trades with no se support build

Doomsayers please try not to make too much of a ruckus before you get your hands on the spec or even before the coming balance changes. Things may turn out very very different and you might regret hating on something you havent tried yet.

Chaith.8256:

I call core engineer a condition & power damage specialist whether it’s PvP or PvE- hard to understand why it’s referred to as a Jack of all trades with no se support build

Agree. But it also isn’t that good as a “specialist”, because absurd rotations. And other “specialists” do the same work while being more party friendly.

Frightlight.3796:

Doomsayers please try not to make too much of a ruckus before you get your hands on the spec or even before the coming balance changes. Things may turn out very very different and you might regret hating on something you havent tried yet.

I think I would regret more NOT doing a ruckus now, and accepting all that seems wrong and leting hope grow, only to confront the sad reality later.

Better to be corrected by a positive development than surprised by an obvious disaster.

Ardid.7203:

Agree. But it also isn’t that good as a “specialist”, because absurd rotations. And other “specialists” do the same work while being more party friendly.

I think while it could be perceived as getting the short end of the stick, Engineers playing the piano on their keyboards vs 1111111 is an acceptable class difference, let’s be honest, it’s much more fun than 1111111

Agree. But my fingers have limits! Between 111 and condi rotation must be some gradient! XD

I’m honestly bummed out that alchemy is so head and shoulders above everything else, because thematically they’re my least favorite thing an engi can do.

Would totes be happy if they reworked a lot of the gadgets and gadget toolbelt skills. Surely there’s a way to make something like a mine have utility on par with Elixir U or R (which I swear by in terms of utility). I’d be a gadget + rifle engineer if it was more a viable option.

As far as PvP goes im seeing some interesting builds specially for 1v1 point fights with firearms sword is going to have a huge amount of crit potential without any precision, personally im looking forward to running an SD build, allways been a fan of sd builds but its allways been a more damage or more survive ability problem cant get quite enough of either to make it viable but with the extra damage sources from photon forge and holosmith might have some really good potential to tank pritty well and deal a kitten ton of damage but time will tell.

I’m just waiting for the follow-up to this thread.

Engineer: The Final Solution

Iozeph.5617:

I’m just waiting for the follow-up to this thread.

Engineer: The Final Solution

Allow us to be healer engineers?

Ivantreil.3092:

Iozeph.5617:

I’m just waiting for the follow-up to this thread.

Engineer: The Final Solution

Allow us to be healer engineers?

We were- back when everybody kicked you out of instanced game play for doing it. Then our turrets were nerfed, we lost healing bombs, were sold a bill of goods about exploding fields- and the abortion known as the med kit… Then what do you know- now everybody wants healers for instanced content.

No, Engineer: The Final Solution is going to be subject of a leaked, internal Anet memo wherein they discuss plans to place an Engineer-only event portal somewhere within the deserts come PoF; A red-tinged version of the Super Adventure Box portal. Stepping inside the portal leads to an instant character deletion with the ability to roll engineers permanently blocked from that account. Once the last engineer has taken the bait the engineer, and all expansion professions based upon it, will be expunged from all lore and any future product feature listings.

Ivantreil.3092:

Iozeph.5617:

I’m just waiting for the follow-up to this thread.

Engineer: The Final Solution

Allow us to be healer engineers?

I think you missed his reference.

No. I just didn’t want to go there. It’s one thing to joke about our profession being lost/persecuted, it’s quite another to make Engineers into the ones carrying out such a ‘solution.’

Iozeph.5617:

No. I just didn’t want to go there. It’s one thing to joke about our profession being lost/persecuted, it’s quite another to make Engineers into the ones carrying out such a ‘solution.’

Elixir Gun 3.

Just saying.

Engineer will be able to set themselves on fire and self-destruct soon. Final Solution is slowly going to fruition.

joke’s on you, I’ve always wanted to explode into a fireball

Chaith.8256:

I think lots are overly pessimistic. The same always expecting some kind of surprise overhaul to the profession, yet disappointed when it doesn’t happen.

It’s been 5 years, I can’t begin to force myself to continue caring that half of the utilities are trash.

As for the other specializations, they’re not as messed up in PvP as most will lead you to believe.

All I can elaborate further on that is that in PvP, don’t underestimate Explosives, Firearms, and Tools just because Scrapper had no synergy with them, it doesn’t mean Holosmith won’t as well.

Explosives and Firearms with Holosmith (not together) will be a thing. The existence of Holosmith will elevate those specs

In WvW, grenades are too much of a retaliation liability, always have, but a Crystal Configuration: Storm power Holosmith will have plenty of AoE with a mid range, and the elite skill will be a killer too.

Why would you not got go Explosives + Firearms + Holosmith? This will have great synergi,, with high crit explosive dammage for quick bleed,weakness, and burn dammage. A bit of a glass cannon but still.

It would also be nice if we actually had a viable heal other than Healing Turret. It’s both too good and the other options too bad. I don’t like the homogeny between engineers all using this same heal. It doesn’t feel fun.

Genesis.8572:

It would also be nice if we actually had a viable heal other than Healing Turret. It’s both too good and the other options too bad. I don’t like the homogeny between engineers all using this same heal. It doesn’t feel fun.

IMO the new heal seems to be actually competitive with Healing Turret.

leviathan.2148:

IMO the new heal seems to be actually competitive with Healing Turret.

Is it? Every single engineer build on Metabattle, save one PvP build rated at a 60 rating that uses Elixir H, has the Healing Turret equipped. It’s simply too good to not have. It has far more functionality and healing than the other healing skills.

coolant blast will prolly need another ~1k base healing to compete with healing turret, at least

Genesis.8572:

leviathan.2148:

IMO the new heal seems to be actually competitive with Healing Turret.

Is it? Every single engineer build on Metabattle, save one PvP build rated at a 60 rating that uses Elixir H, has the Healing Turret equipped. It’s simply too good to not have. It has far more functionality and healing than the other healing skills.

Maybe it’s not in any build on metabattle because it will be released on September 22.

leviathan.2148:

Maybe it’s not in any build on metabattle because it will be released on September 22.

I’m referring to the non-turret heal skills and not the holomancer’s heal, as per the OP’s correct assertion that the holomancer does not address the core engineer problems.

Genesis.8572:

leviathan.2148:

IMO the new heal seems to be actually competitive with Healing Turret.

Is it? Every single engineer build on Metabattle, save one PvP build rated at a 60 rating that uses Elixir H, has the Healing Turret equipped. It’s simply too good to not have. It has far more functionality and healing than the other healing skills.

Eh, it’s not really so much that. Elixir H is pretty competitive with the Healing Turret. The problem is just that Elixir H has a full 1-second cast time and gets interrupted very easily.

The Healing Turret used to be incredibly valuable for its water field, but that’s much less important now and is generally picked up over being blown up anyway.

I’m actually most interested in seeing whether or not AED makes an entrance with the elite specialization. The big problem before with it is that good players would see you activate it and then not kill you. But with the new overheating mechanic with Holosmith, it’d be very easy to self-inflict enough damage to kill yourself, causing AED to activate.

The only problem is that it’s a gadget, and it would require Gadgeteer to be a bit less cumbersome to use (ups to 8-second duration with ~22 second cooldown when Gadgeteer is active).

Phineas Poe.3018:

Genesis.8572:

leviathan.2148:

IMO the new heal seems to be actually competitive with Healing Turret.

Is it? Every single engineer build on Metabattle, save one PvP build rated at a 60 rating that uses Elixir H, has the Healing Turret equipped. It’s simply too good to not have. It has far more functionality and healing than the other healing skills.

Eh, it’s not really so much that. Elixir H is pretty competitive with the Healing Turret. The problem is just that Elixir H has a full 1-second cast time and gets interrupted very easily.

Elixir H also doesn’t remove conditions either. I used to play Elixir H a lot back in the beginning, but I came to realize the condi removal from healing turret was too valuable to pass up.

I’m actually most interested in seeing whether or not AED makes an entrance with the elite specialization. The big problem before with it is that good players would see you activate it and then not kill you. But with the new overheating mechanic with Holosmith, it’d be very easy to self-inflict enough damage to kill yourself, causing AED to activate.

The only problem is that it’s a gadget, and it would require Gadgeteer to be a bit less cumbersome to use (ups to 8-second duration with ~22 second cooldown when Gadgeteer is active).

I was going to say — AED is only more useful if its cooldown time matches the healing turret. Otherwise, it’s still way too finicky to be as useful.

I’m very much in agreement with the OP, as for the Holosmith… I am not interested in self-destructing and I’m seriously not interested in having to “balance” that out along with all the other rotations. I was hoping that the balance changes before this weekend would try to address some of these issues but upon reading the notes while they took a single step forward, it still didn’t address the very problem with the base kit in general. I love playing Engi and I was really looking forward to the new expansion until I got to the Holosmith and realized that they were putting a shiny arcade band-aid over the main issue. Also, I am NOT a fan of the “look” of the Holosmith either. I liked the steampunk look of the Engi, and if they were going to go with something more “tech” based I was hoping they’d go with something more traditional Asura-tech not the Moto-arcade game look/feel.