Guild Wars 2

Unpopular opinion here but it is utterly broken OP. There is a reason other healing skills cannot compete. I understand that it is needed to make engi competitive right now but it needs to be nerfed to make room for buffs for all the actually underpowered things we have. In a way it is preventing engi from becoming better.

Healing turret:

• best heal sustain due to superior heal per cooldown
• 2 water fields
• permanent regeneration
• blast finisher
• condi removal
• knockback with explosives

You will now get another 3900 healing from it by tripple leaping with hammer 3.

STOP THIS MADNESS! All of engis effectiveness gets pidgeonholed into that single skill.

So you mean to say that medkit is good as it is compared to heals from other classes or medic gyro with its 30-44s CD and low throughput ? Or even Elixir H (somewhat good actually)

No I say that that Healing Turret is too good. All the other heals need help (except maybe Elixier H in niche builds) but even when they are at a decent point compared to other classes they will not be able to compete with Healing Turret.

People don’t want to admit it because engineer’s state is less than desirable but yes, Healing Turret is absolutely overpowered.

No this is sparta op. And yes.. the HT is overpowered.. but we can have atleast some nice things right?

in WvW Solo Roaming I will definitely try the Protection on Heal Skill, will make Healing Turret even better
and imo, there is no other good adept for Solo Roaming, in groups the other adept traits could be really nice though

No one said anything since they revealed the triple leap on hammer. Guess it must be healing turret that’s op tho.

Neither of the water fields last long enough to utilize all three leaps from Rocket Charge.

You’d want to use Elixir Shell with it.

Basaltface.2786:

No this is sparta op. And yes.. the HT is overpowered.. but we can have atleast some nice things right?

It’s our best standard heal, with Elixir H good in HGH builds, but what’s actually overpowered about it?

Rocket Charge has nothing to do with Healing Turret being OP…

It’s a half second cast time AoE heal and condi cleanse with regen that can be boosted even further with blast/leap finishers on a 20 second cooldown. It even has the versatility to drop down to a 15 sec cooldown at the cost of a bit less potency.

Trying to stop an engineer from healing let alone healing a massive amount is extremely difficult.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Neither of the water fields last long enough to utilize all three leaps from Rocket Charge.

You’d want to use Elixir Shell with it.

Basaltface.2786:

No this is sparta op. And yes.. the HT is overpowered.. but we can have atleast some nice things right?

It’s our best standard heal, with Elixir H good in HGH builds, but what’s actually overpowered about it?

I can only advise you to read my opening post a second time because all the arguments are in there.

And btw it is likely that the leaps will fit, atleast 2 of them. With 10s cd on Rocket Charge you can actually use that very well with the 2 water fields of HT, it matches very well with Rocket Charge cooldown unlikes the other water fields.

Dojo.1867:

I can only advise you to read my opening post a second time because all the arguments are in there.

And btw it is likely that the leaps will fit, atleast 2 of them. With 10s cd on Rocket Charge you can actually use that very well with the 2 water fields of HT, it matches very well with Rocket Charge cooldown unlikes the other water fields.

I read it.

The Healing Turret is a very good general healing skill, but Elixir H in a lot of ways outperforms it when built for HGH. I don’t see this changing when the hammer is released.

And as I already said, Rocket Charge is best used with Elixir Shell. You argue that the CDs match better with the Healing Turret, but you really shouldn’t have to heal yourself up with leaps every 10 seconds. You’ll want to be using it actively, and if engineers are already sustaining pretty well with the Mortar Kit and Elixir Gun as it is, Rocket Charge may be better used as an offensive option and/or gap closer.

A skill where both the base and the toolbelt – cause we should also remember that those effects are balanced over being two separate skills, one of them being part of the class mechanic – are actually useful and that can synergize well with other skills.
For a class that depends so much on its utilities it should be the norm (for non-kit skills), not some outliner like it is now.
If the other non-kit skills were as useful as HT, we wouldn’t have to depend on kits so much.

Btw, a bit of a side note, but didn’t they mention that finishers from leaps on Rocket Charge will stack? Are we looking at 15 seconds worth of Chaos Armor with full RC in ethereal field?:P

Killyox.3950:

Btw, a bit of a side note, but didn’t they mention that finishers from leaps on Rocket Charge will stack? Are we looking at 15 seconds worth of Chaos Armor with full RC in ethereal field?:P

Or Fireaura for even more Might Stacking hrhr

Haralin.1473:

Killyox.3950:

Btw, a bit of a side note, but didn’t they mention that finishers from leaps on Rocket Charge will stack? Are we looking at 15 seconds worth of Chaos Armor with full RC in ethereal field?:P

Or Fireaura for even more Might Stacking hrhr

I doubt it. I think he was talking about the possibility to stack multiple different auras with this one skill. If we can manage to jump through 3 different combo fields with this skill, it should be possible to get 3 auras.

I know, that would be really sad, because it is close to impossible to get this to work. But like always, I think that was just a note about what is possible, not what will be realistic.

Only frost aura stacks, so jump in a frost field.

Permanent regeneration? How do you manage that with only healing turret while keeping the 15~20 second CD? At most you could keep a 50% regeneration uptime I believe.

Also, as Phineas already said, chances are you won’t be able to get all three Leaps out of Cleansing Burst; it takes 1.5 seconds to complete, and I think Cleansing Burst’s water field lasts for less than 1 second – I don’t think I’ve ever been able to get two Area Heals out of Orbital Strike on Cleansing Burst. We’ll see in the BWE3 I guess.

3 seconds regeneration from placing the turret. If you have inventions (and most people will use it with scrapper I guess), you get 6 seconds for the minor trait. Overcharge gives 5 seconds.

In total you get 14 seconds of regeneration. So if you just have 15 seconds cd for picking the turret up, you have a regeneration uptime of 93%. That’s really close to 100% and you will get more than this if you use alchemy too, to get more boon duration.

So is this thread about nerfing HT to make the healing gyro less awful in comparison?

Xyonon.3987:

So is this thread about nerfing HT to make the healing gyro less awful in comparison?

If you read my posts you would see that it is about nerfing HT and buffing the other heals/underperforming engi skills in general.

People here stating HT is balanced are kittening hypocrits. Yes, engi is balanced with HT because most of his other stuff is bad. HT does way too much though.

Dojo.1867:

Xyonon.3987:

So is this thread about nerfing HT to make the healing gyro less awful in comparison?

If you read my posts you would see that it is about nerfing HT and buffing the other heals/underperforming engi skills in general.

People here stating HT is balanced are kittening hypocrits. Yes, engi is balanced with HT because most of his other stuff is bad. HT does way too much though.

We are not in good enough spot to warrant nerfs to the only good thing lest it breaks us.
First let them buff other options. Then if these options are good they can tune HT more in line.

Healing skill is very important and if it’s bad it can drastically weaken a class. Besides HT has been like this since pretty much forever and you don’t see engies dominating.

If HT would be nerfed it would become more prevalent how underpowered a lot of engi stuff is. Right now engi seems “fine” due to HT carrying the class so they don’t see a reason to change much.

Fortunately you wrote this bunch of B….. here ,where Dev’s never read it.
You’re into the Engi class forum Darling…
If you wanna be heard go in any other forum’s section Bro…
C ya.

Grenade Kit has the same issue as well.

Both of them are so exceptional at their jobs that they crowd out pretty much any skill in their class.

The only other viable hear we have is Elixir H, and you HAVE to trait HGH. Even then, there is an argument to be made for taking it over HT.

It is the same issue I have with thieves and stealth. Until now, stealth has been such an able crutch that the core issues of the class have gone unfixed.

Dojo.1867:

Xyonon.3987:

So is this thread about nerfing HT to make the healing gyro less awful in comparison?

If you read my posts you would see that it is about nerfing HT and buffing the other heals/underperforming engi skills in general.

People here stating HT is balanced are kittening hypocrits. Yes, engi is balanced with HT because most of his other stuff is bad. HT does way too much though.

Oh nono, i meant it more like “did this come up BECAUSE of the thread of how afwul the healing gyro is”.

I know every profession hates it to get nerfed, the main profession is always the one you “accept” when something is a bit op.

But to be fair, I have to agree that a 6600 heal (4000 of them are for allies too) + water field + 2 condi cleanse and the whole package in aoe for only 20 sec CD is indeed a bit too much.

I’d rather like to see the healing turret as a permanent water field (or a longer lasting water field with less CD on its active), but without heal on it’s active. With that change, you could heal yourself more with leaps and blasts in the water field and it may be the end of “turret set + pick up / blast”.

On the other hand, the other heal skills could also need some love:

• AED only needs a bit more love to make it viable imo
• Gyro needs much much love to make it viable. Over the double heal over time, fixing the CD flaw all gyros have (CD starts after built makes you want to destroy your heal gyro as fast as possible due to the initial heal), maybe aoe, more / longer water field, condi cleanse (and change the condi cleanse gyro … atm those combinded result into a healing turret …)
• Med Kit … oh well this one … need soooooo much love like the love you would need to make a honey badger and a cobra have children. Srsly this is by far the worst skill in the whole engi kitten nal (eggcept for the norn cultural toolbelts (pun intended))

opinions?

This is a good suggestion but if I was in charge (inb4 glad you aren’t posts) I would make healing turret and turrets in general actually feel like turrets. Right now this is just a button you press twice and then F1 or just F. Why does it even have a model if it stays in play for like 0.1 seconds? The design of this skill is actually terrible but everybody has just accepted it by now.

I would add a 3 second activation time to all turrets before you can overload them and buff their effects. This would add a serious downside to healing turret of actually staying near it for atleast 3 seconds but it IS a turret after all. Engineer needs all the love he can get but I like my classes and skills to atleast make sense thematically.

I don’t see the healing turret as overpowered

Placing the Turret, overcharging it and then pick it up will give you 6080 of heals (heal + regen) on a 15sec cooldown. This is about 405 hp/sec of heals.

Lets compare them to other profession
- warrior healing signet give 362 hp/sec.
- Elementalist traited Ether Renewal give 347 hp/sec
- Mesmer traited mantra of recovery give 393 hp/sec
- Necro traited Consume Condition need 6 conditions to reach 400 hp/sec

So overall, yes the Healing Turret is probably the best heal in the game, but not by much. It’s usually about 10-20% better than most heal. Yes, it would be ok to nerf it by maybe a 5-10%, but there is no reason to nerf it more. Remember that to reach that amount of hp/sec you need to place, overcharge and pick it up again. For me Healing Turret is ok, because even if it’s a powerful healing skill, it need you to be a minimum good with it. It’s a hard heal to master.

As for the other healing skill of the Engineer. Here what I think.

- Elixir H is a powerful heal in the right build. The problem is the randomness of it. They removed the randomness of the throw elixir s skill and they should do the same with Elixir H. The best option would be to give each time 2sec of Protection, 3s of regen and 3s of switfness. But they could do all regen or a mix of protection and regen.

- AED is actually pretty good. It give 415hp per second when you received a killing blow , not counting the damage you didn’t received. But why take it when Healing turret is just a bit less healing, but so much adaptable to different situation compare to AED. It doesn’t need much to be good.

- Med Kit is just terrible. 289 hp/sec for the F1 is the worst heal. You can reach that to 516 hp/second. But that’s when you stay on the med kit, healing yourself 505hp at the time. Here what I would do.

1) The med Blaster is horrible. It’s 112 hp/sec of healing if your allies have ALL the boons and you need to stay behind them pressing 1. The guardian and elementalist can do about the same, while they are actually playing. We don’t need an auto-attack on the med kit. Or at least, make it heal yourself too, so you can use it while running away like a D/D Cele Ele with LW and their Signet of Resto.
2) I would remove the heal from all skills 3 to 5 and make them proper specialised support skill. Focusing to condition removal, one weakness of the engineer. Why remove the heal? Because, it’s not a heal worth it in combat. It’s too small for too much cast time.
3) Now that skill 2-5 don’t heal and the skill 1 can heal yourself. You can make the F1 a proper healing skill. Make it heal you by 5 500. On a 17sec cooldown that’s 323 hp/sec. Lower than most other traited healing skill, but with the auto-attack healing you when you need it, it’s more around 400 hp/sec.

The goal here is to have a decent healing skill with the F1. The auto-attack when you need some more heal or when running away while not attacking the ennemy. And a couple of support that remove condition with skill 2-5.

The point is that on top of being propably the best heal in the game (even if just by 10%) it provides so much more utility. Like stated in the opening post you heal allies aswell, can amplify the healing with combos of which engi has plenty, gain regen, gain condition cleanse (!), gain a blast finisher for other utility combos, gain a knockback.

This is way too much if we stop being biased for a second.

Dojo.1867:

The point is that on top of being propably the best heal in the game (even if just by 10%) it provides so much more utility. Like stated in the opening post you heal allies aswell, can amplify the healing with combos of which engi has plenty, gain regen, gain condition cleanse (!), gain a blast finisher for other utility combos, gain a knockback.

This is way too much if we stop being biased for a second.

Ranger and Elementalist also have plenty of combos and a least one water field. I don’t see that as important. It’ s a plus for the Healing turret for sure, but that’s not what it make it good.

Like I said. It’s a powerful heal, but it need you to do at least 3 actions. If you compare that to the Warrior healing signet which give you 362 hp/sec while doing zero action. You want Healing Turret to be higher than 362 hp/sec.

The healing turret give you 405hp/sec and the toolbelt give you an additional 37hp/sec for a total of 442 hp/sec. I would be ok to drop that to 400 hp/sec. The regen would stay the same on F1, healing turret and overcharging. This mean that that both placing and overcharging the turret would need to heal by 2140 instead of 2520 like right now.

I could agree with that, but not more than that. That’s a nerf of around 9%.

Imo that is exactly what makes it good.

I totally agree with the OP.

In order to have more then one “fun to use” healing skill the Healing Turret has to be brought down a bit.

For me fun is about having choice and to weight the advantages with the disadvantages of a skill, to give something up to get another thing which might helps you more.

With the current HT, which is really really good, too good, the other healing skills can only hope to be usable in a very niche situation. Basically there is no choice to make because even the niche skills (AED) are not so good so that the HT couldn’t compete.

I would rather suggest to make the other heals actually viable instead of trying to destroy the only useful healing skill Engineers currently have.

Elixir H is only used in Elixir-builds. Maybe a reduced cd (20s baseline, maybe even 15s and no cd reduction from Alchemy anymore for it) could make it a more considerable heal outside of Elixir-builds.

AED had its short time to shine when AMR could be abused. I don’t see how it could be made useful in anyway, the concept of it is already bad and to niche.

Medkit.. well, it’s even worse than it was before the “overhaul”. Absolutely unuseable in its current state. Without the groundtarget on #2-5 it would already be better and less clunky. Then make #1 also heal yourself and it could be viable.

Heal Gyro from what I’ve seen in the PoI:
- cd way too long
- the radius too small (easy to step out in the battle, since Gyro doesn’t stay on the Engineer)
- overall heal too weak for it’s downtime
- destroyable: high risk and way too low reward for using it

Engineers need more healing skill options, not less. We already are the class with the least number of viable healing skills.

“destroy” he says.

My personal proposed changes:

• healing turret: decrease initial healing, increase overcharge healing (promoting turret upkeep). Increase cooldown to 24s while picking up makes it 18s (still 25% decrease).
• elixir H: thrown elixir H, add 1s of resistance (100%).
• AED: increase healing power scaling alot (1.5, for real tanking purposes). Static shock stun increased to 2s, its really hard to land anyway.
• Med Kit: healing skill on toolbelt seems fair as long med kit gets a rework, giving it AoE abilities for example.
• Medic gyro: dont know yet, but seems like it at least needs better options to keep it up.

As you can see these propesed changes are to make every heal skill fit a different kind of build (bunkering, dps etc).

Edit: almost forgot but gadgeteer needs rework too to make AED effective

Imho, the issue with other heals are:
Elixir H: randomness and balanced over all those elixir traits (thus making it worthless without them).
AED: opportunity costs – you can use other heals multiple times before having the right chance to properly use it. The concept is nice, but in practice it doesn’t work well.
Med Kit: med kit.

The V.8759:

My personal proposed changes:

• healing turret: decrease initial healing, increase overcharge healing (promoting turret upkeep). Increase cooldown to 24s while picking up makes it 18s (still 25% decrease).
• elixir H: thrown elixir H, add 1s of resistance (100%).
• AED: increase healing power scaling alot (1.5, for real tanking purposes). Static shock stun increased to 2s, its really hard to land anyway.
• Med Kit: healing skill on toolbelt seems fair as long med kit gets a rework, giving it AoE abilities for example.
• Medic gyro: dont know yet, but seems like it at least needs better options to keep it up.

As you can see these propesed changes are to make every heal skill fit a different kind of build (bunkering, dps etc).

Edit: almost forgot but gadgeteer needs rework too to make AED effective

This is very bad. :P This is just straight out huge nerf to HT for no reason. HT is like it is for a long time and you don;t see engies dominating anything at all.

You don’t take good skill to garbage levels just to have more garbage to choose from.

You take garbage up to good level to create a choice.

Killyox.3950:

The V.8759:

My personal proposed changes:

• healing turret: decrease initial healing, increase overcharge healing (promoting turret upkeep). Increase cooldown to 24s while picking up makes it 18s (still 25% decrease).
• elixir H: thrown elixir H, add 1s of resistance (100%).
• AED: increase healing power scaling alot (1.5, for real tanking purposes). Static shock stun increased to 2s, its really hard to land anyway.
• Med Kit: healing skill on toolbelt seems fair as long med kit gets a rework, giving it AoE abilities for example.
• Medic gyro: dont know yet, but seems like it at least needs better options to keep it up.

As you can see these propesed changes are to make every heal skill fit a different kind of build (bunkering, dps etc).

Edit: almost forgot but gadgeteer needs rework too to make AED effective

This is very bad. :P This is just straight out huge nerf to HT for no reason. HT is like it is for a long time and you don;t see engies dominating anything at all.

You don’t take good skill to garbage levels just to have more garbage to choose from.

You take garbage up to good level to create a choice.

It actually isnt that huge. For picking up again its 3s… the heal total on HT wont change with these changes since the overcharge will buff and initial will nerf

The V.8759:

My personal proposed changes:

• healing turret: decrease initial healing, increase overcharge healing (promoting turret upkeep). Increase cooldown to 24s while picking up makes it 18s (still 25% decrease).
• elixir H: thrown elixir H, add 1s of resistance (100%).
• AED: increase healing power scaling alot (1.5, for real tanking purposes). Static shock stun increased to 2s, its really hard to land anyway.
• Med Kit: healing skill on toolbelt seems fair as long med kit gets a rework, giving it AoE abilities for example.
• Medic gyro: dont know yet, but seems like it at least needs better options to keep it up.

As you can see these propesed changes are to make every heal skill fit a different kind of build (bunkering, dps etc).

Edit: almost forgot but gadgeteer needs rework too to make AED effective

Turret upkeep is NOT something we should be aiming for.

The problem here is to make the other heals more attractive and MAYBE give HT a very mild nerf. This takes a baseball bat to it.

If you guys want AED and the Med Kit to be useful, they should be buffed.

Leave the Healing Turret out of it.

AED was useful until they nerfed the Inventions trait. I was able to pull it off about 4-5 times during a fight.

Ging.6485:

AED was useful until they nerfed the Inventions trait. I was able to pull it off about 4-5 times during a fight.

I never quite understood this. Please correct me if i have misunderstood, i primarily used HT and now only ever use Elix H since the changes.

If you slot for AED now wont it still work twice in a fight? I know Elix H and AMR works pretty nice and i use runes that synergise with this. So does AED suck unless you can use it more than twice?
Was it the potential immortality that made it good with the low internal cd? Is that what people want back?

I think engineer is fine, they are not terrible or bad. I used to think engineers were under powered in spvp, but it’s not till i learned the strengths of my profession that i started doing decent in spvp.

healing turret is not that strong in pve or pvp. It usually gets destroyed after 1 cast of water. I usually just spend the 25 second coldown to over charge water field blast finisher my turret for the best healing possible.

I think the elixier healing becomes better with alchemy traits, and a.e.d is useful in some situations namely fractals. Med kit is absolutely niche because your team has to know how to walk over med packs and usually most teams rather have a damage dealer than a medic engineer.

Overall i think engineers should get a couple of unique skills that would make them very useful like a portal or friendly pull or a new type of condition or boon.

They are tanky short ranged mages…they either need massive damage or massive utility to be useful in spvp and other pvp modes. But they are fine 1v1 and small pvp skirmishes. Most classes bring massive damage. Engineers bring cc and utility but it’s not enough.