Guild Wars 2

So, I have been playing this game since head-start maining an engi. Currently I do pretty well in WvW except against perma-stealthing thieves who just run away forever and kittening necros. I honestly just am at a loss when fighting a decent one. In WvW it seems they keep 100% deathshroud so at the start of the fight you go in knowing you need to burn not 1 but 2 health bars, consume conditions completely ignores poison and actually rewards them for having it on them… and the fact that they can xfer back my conditions to me? So I ask you engineer community HOW DO YOU BEAT A GOOD necro..?

Im just back so take advice with grain of salt. But, when I used to play necros where somewhat vunerable to power dps. So maybe power , rather than condition spam is the way to go.

Power works better against necro, specially if you have many knockbacks (rifle + bomb). But at the moment a necro is a hard matchup for every class.

a good necro should always be able to beat a good engie in wvw, imo. there are, however, a few tricks to balance it out a bit, based on my experiences against condition necros (which may be wrong!)

-first, get used to see what signets -if any- the necro is using.
-signet of spite has a fairly easy animation to spot and gives you a chance to dodge if you are fast enough. If you do get hit with it don’t panic with the overload of conditions. Alone, they won’t do much damage to you, it’s that cripple and that weakness you need to worry about. Elixir C is a great counter to this (and to corrupt boon as well).
-plague signet ill transfer necro’s conditions to you, but not many run this. Its devastating if you are using conditions tho.
-signet of locust/undeath are nothing to worry about.

-Most necros only run one stunbreaker and that is usually spectral walk. Spectral walk is very obvious, necro turns green. you should play a bit more defensive and avoid multi hitting skills like p#2 when they use it, because hitting a necro while he uses SW will give him life force for his death shroud. the skill also allows the necro to return to the original location.

As most only run one stunbreak and their only source of stability is 3 seconds on DS (if traited), CC is usually their weak spot. The most common heal a necro uses is Consume conditions. It is on a 25 seconds timer and has a fairly large cast time which makes it easily interruptable. Also, it will heal the necro more for each condition he has. So my advice here is: cc early and cc often (immobilizes as well) and try to interrupt the heal (learn the animation),

Almost every single necro runs with a staff, at the very least as a secondary weapon. The way the staff works makes it very very hard to avoid the marks. My advice is: if you see the marks are small, just try to block it out. If they are large, means he is running greater marks.. which ignores blocks so dont even. Just fight at range, the marks have large cooldowns and once used necros will , normally, fall back to their other weapon set. If he has a large number of conditions and starts running to you while wielding a staff he is most likely trying to transfer conditions back to you with staff #4. Stay away. You can even get hit with it, just not while the necro is in range of the mark himself.

- ds skills are the tricky part. There’s an instant cast fear they can even use while stunned so not much you can do against it but eat it. torment can be very strong so I usually remove it right away. the #4 channaleing skill will work very well for necros against your elite turrets. If he tries to use it against the turrets, interrupt him as soon as possible, especially if he is at low hp/low ds. Most likely he’s just buying time for a heal.

-elites: plague form is useless in a 1v1, cripple and kite, you’ll be fine. Lich form hits like a truck but most condi necros dont use it, seems to work better for power builds. Notice that the transformations give necros stability.
The golem is great for 1v1s, 2 things you gotta pay attention: it will snare you when it hits you with normal hits so always kite it. It can charge you on command and knock you down while also hitting pretty hard. You should use your stunbreaker asap because good necros will take this opportunity to use their most powerful stuff like spite or just chain cc you with a double fear while conditions tick away. killing the golem early is a good option too, if you have enough dps.

theres alot more stuff to it and it also depends greatly on what build you using so I didnt go into that. 409 and elixir C help me alot against necros and even condition mesmers.
also , avoid at all costs healing while under poison.

edit: wall of text, sorry, I should have just gone for ice cream :p

Yeah, I know how most of the abilities work, but to be honest it seems just like fighting a huge uphill battle. I took a break before the last patch and when I came back it was like their dps potential had dramatically increased…. Generally I run p/p toolkit, nades, and rocketboots, although I generally will switch it out for elixir c when I see a solo necro, however generally if he knows half of what he’s doing I just end up dieing or running away lol..

If you play equally well, you cannot beat a necro as a rabid condi-engi in WvW/PvP. There’s no answer to that question other than outplaying the necro. How severe you have to outplay a necro loaded with 100% deathshroud depends on your build.

My first order of advice would to play a build that necros don’t counter as hard. Things that counter carrion-necros that Engineers can do:

• Bring Slick Shoes. Bring a toolkit for magnet. When properly used, this is going to be the easiest way to prevent a necro from using his multiple iWin buttons available while you are running conditions on him. (Putrid mark, you’re dead, consume conditions, you’re probably never going to down him.)

How you do it:

• Poke some of your damage at max range into him while playing very defensively, trying to burn as much deathshroud as possible. When he pops death shroud, it’s not a bad idea to GTFO and outrange his abilities, so he’s forced to take his shroud down. (90% of necros will do this) Immediately return and burning the necro’s health down. He can’t interrupt you with doom, or mitigate any damage.

• When the necro reaches X% hp (depending on your spike, and your abilities available,) Magnet pull, activate slick shoes asap, get 3-4 knockdowns while unloading damage, then double tap him with supply crate/Rifle4 as soon as the knockdowns from Slick Shoes ends. This is to prevent the Putrid mark or consume conditions.

• Stunbreak doom with lightning ninja speed, or weave a dodge in if you have anticipatory reflexes like that. Your combo can not be interrupted.

This is a deadly combination that is much more effective as a power Engineer, because your control is better with another big guaranteed interrupt after, using Rifle4 and that’s the name of the game. Plus, you can spike more HP faster as soon as his shroud is off.

If you have a pure condition-mancer necro that you will do or be anything to beat, in WvW, using the above strategy with this build will give you your best shot:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqiY38SyF17IyoHdmoNaiKkffewWtFEC-jECBYfBhgAhsAI5pIaslRFRjVXDT7iIq2auIa1SBwkwI-w

My all purpose build for WvW:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piY38SyF17IyIFdmoJSR+pffewWPIEC-jECBYfBhEBI5pIasFhBpyJslORTXDT5iIqWKAmEGB-w

Honestly, if you’re a good Engineer and you are getting destroyed by Necromancer’s constantly, there’s not a super secret to go from zero to hero, lol. Sorry if you’re not satisfied with my suggestions to change your setup. :P

Chaith.8256:

My all purpose build for WvW:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piY38SyF17IyIFdmoJSR+pffewWPIEC-jECBYfBhEBI5pIasFhBpyJslORTXDT5iIqWKAmEGB-w

Honestly, if you’re a good Engineer and you are getting destroyed by Necromancer’s constantly, there’s not a super secret to go from zero to hero, lol. Sorry if you’re not satisfied with my suggestions to change your setup. :P

Nice post. The only thing I would suggest in your build is taking 10 from tools and putting it in firearms. Either sitting duck or precise sights. I think you’ll get more bang for the buck that way. At the very least move 5 points if you really want the toolbelt recharge.

Thinking about it, I guess if you really want the quicker recharge it’s worth it. That would be for attrition battles. I have found the vulnerability is really helpful in ending battles quicker though.

He already has inertial converter, which I assume is why he went 5 more into tools as toolkit shield is better than 5 points in firearms..

However, thanks a lot Chaith and Maskganda I’ll give your strategies a try. I was pretty sure condition vs condition was a lose lose against any decent necro, just wanted to get confirmation from some people who are more knowledgeable than myself on the subject.

zaragoz.6351:

He already has inertial converter, which I assume is why he went 5 more into tools as toolkit shield is better than 5 points in firearms..

That’s kind of what I figured after thinking about it for a minute and it makes sense.

My last comment would be the gear. At least in T1 WvW you’ll get crucified running Berserker gear. This may change after the patch on the 17th when good servers will be rewarded for running more small mans (30 mans should be that max I would think). Even then though I probably wouldn’t run Berserker.

I have both classes at level 80. I know how necros work, so when I’m on my engy (condi p/s kits), I don’t even try to fight them. I have to play my kitten off to keep on par with even a mediocre condi necro. If the guy is good, I don’t stand a chance. They’re typically pretty slow, so normally I just leave them be and out run them. If I do have to engage, I try to stay as far away as possible and use the 1500 range of my nades to my advantage. Usually it’s still to just get chill grenades down so I can run, lol.

Necros have a lack of stunbreaks and stability. So cc + direct damage is your best change. Most necro’s wont trait 30 in to SR for stab on DS so they can be kicked around and focus fired to hell. Honestly dont understand why people have difficulty killing necros, we have really poor defensive capabilities and need to be babysat by teammates to stop us from getting focus fired.

Tyaen.5148:

zaragoz.6351:

He already has inertial converter, which I assume is why he went 5 more into tools as toolkit shield is better than 5 points in firearms..

That’s kind of what I figured after thinking about it for a minute and it makes sense.

My last comment would be the gear. At least in T1 WvW you’ll get crucified running Berserker gear. This may change after the patch on the 17th when good servers will be rewarded for running more small mans (30 mans should be that max I would think). Even then though I probably wouldn’t run Berserker.

It’s definitely life on the edge. Positioning is absolutely key. In larger fights, I depend on my group forming a rank. It’s for extreme outside fighting, with a huge snipe combo. (Magnet into group, slick shoes, unload.) I have to lose all would-be attackers, but it’s not proven to be very difficult. I find it very exciting.

I’ve never played t1 WvW, I’ve basically been in PvP from August 2012 to August 2013 – so, experiences may vary.

I play Necro as my 2nd toon. I have to say that condition Engineers are one of the easiest classes to beat. Basically anything that throws conditions at my Necro will lose.

Still there are some things you can do that will make life hard for the crappy Necros that roam WvW.

~Run with Automated Response
~Run Elixir C or Elixir Gun
~Knock Down/Knock Back as much as possible
~Play super aggressive Ill have to explain this one, If your facing a good Necro (and your a condition build) you already lost. But if your facing a nub then playing aggressive will freak them out and throw them off there game.

Rock beats Scissors, Scissors cuts Paper, Paper covers Rock… simple as that (now if you add Lizard & Spock you have a battle!)

In WvW, you can go melandru + lemongrass. Slightly cheesy but it’s basically a response to the the only real condition bomber in WvW, the staff necro.

Even then, it’s difficult. But it certainly levels the playing field a bit.

Oh, and supply crate is tailor-made to win unfavorable 1v1s. Use it when the necro pops death shroud, especially if he comes to close range for his 4 and 5 skills. Land an immobilize and feel no shame in dropping a giant box on his head.

NevirSayDie.6235:

feel no shame in dropping a giant box on his head.

Necromancer typically depends of the weapon you’re carrying. Spec for max damage and carry a rifle and you’ll make really short work of a Necromancer. Pistols though… I hope you’ve got some good legs.

Well…i am going to come out and say it….if he hits you with signet of spite at the right time…its very difficult to win, unless your running a very heavy condition clearing build.

Engineers simply do not win a 1v1 fight against a good player, unless specifically built for 1v1. Our class is much harder to play than every other class, and can be countered with much less effort than we put in.

Well I won’t deny that a good necro I just cannot beat, as I tried and tried and tried yesterday after receiving some of the advice here…. I will disagree with your sentiment that we cannot win against good players in general. Running p/s, grenades, toolkit, and slick shoes (Thanks Chaith these are so much stronger than I ever realized.. despite the horribly long cooldown.) I pretty much win at least 85% of my 1 v 1’s against any other classes. Granted this is in WvW as I have been out of the sPvP phase for a while.. only rank 33 or so. Overall I feel we’re pretty strong, despite some of our classes flaws.

As a condi engineer necro’s counter you extremely well. You really have to just out play them. Even the mediocre ones will give you fits as they can stack you with conditions and unless your running elixir c, its gonna take several tosses and consumes to get rid of them. Then when those are on cooldown it’s good night.

It’s a completely different story with power builds though, especially static discharge. You can make a semi-tanky static discharge build with the right gear and still have the dps to just destroy any necro out there. This is especially true with runes of melandru and lemongrass poultry.

The problem then lies in the fact that you are now building to just kill necros. Honestly, they are slow. If you are losing to lots of necros while roaming, just roam with a group and stack your condition damage as high as you can. With a combo of rabid trinkets/weapons and dire armor and a 10/30/0/30 (you will have to take 5 percent vitality to condition dmg here)/0 spec you will have almost 2k condition damage WITHOUT might or corruption stacks. It’s a lot of fun. Sure you will suck hard roaming 1v1 but you will be a great asset to a small man team. It only gets better when you have 25 corruption stacks and 2 guardians to get your might up to 25. I literally kill thieves with one blowtorch and one auto attack when that happens (barring no condition removal).

VIVorcha.7853:

Engineers simply do not win a 1v1 fight against a good player, unless specifically built for 1v1. Our class is much harder to play than every other class, and can be countered with much less effort than we put in.

Couldn’t disagree more. I win the vast majority of my 1v1’s. Any class that is specced specifically for group support will probably have a harder time, but Engineers not winning 1v1’s because we’re inherently harder to play? Flat out false.

Tyaen.5148:

VIVorcha.7853:

Engineers simply do not win a 1v1 fight against a good player, unless specifically built for 1v1. Our class is much harder to play than every other class, and can be countered with much less effort than we put in.

Couldn’t disagree more. I win the vast majority of my 1v1’s. Any class that is specced specifically for group support will probably have a harder time, but Engineers not winning 1v1’s because we’re inherently harder to play? Flat out false.

I agree, engineers win a lot (most) 1v1’s, but yes, Necros are extremely difficult to beat as a condi engineer. Maskganda sums it up perfectly though.