Guild Wars 2

I’m not going to suggest better health or armor or crits or any of that passive buff kitten you hear. That would just make another situation like last time.

I find the biggest issue is the fundamental functionality of tutrets and their interaction with our class mechanic (the toolbelt). The skills are designed as something you’re supposed to keep out like a summon, but as long as it is out it blocks use of the toolbelt skill. In every single case, the skill you would want to use more often (toolbelt skill) is blocked by the skill you want to use less often (utility skill, which converts toolbelt to detonate). So the change I propose is to make the overcharge effects (or slightly nerfed versions thereof in some cases) as the regular turret effect, make the chain skill on the utility into the detonate skill, and keep the toolbelt skill available at all times.

Not sure that would make turrets all that good even then, but it couldn’t hurt. Losing access to toolbelts is certainly a bummer.

That said, I wouldn’t want to lose the overcharge effects. Most of them are way too good to add them as the turret auto-attacks, so they’d likely just end up gone entirely. Perhaps what they could do instead is make the Detonate a chain skill off Overcharge. Any time your turret’s overcharge is on cooldown you have access to Detonate, and once the overcharge comes off cooldown the skill flips back to Overcharge again.

Sure, it would require double-tapping a turret in order to Detonate it, which may take some getting used to. But I don’t think it would be a complete gamebreaker or anything, especially since all Overcharges and Detonates are 0 cast time so you could still do a Detonate really fast. There’d probably be some complaints from people accidentally blowing up their turrets (like how some Necro players complain about exiting death shroud accidentally when trying to enter it because they double-tap) but that’s just a learning thing.

The other alternative would probably be just to make the overcharges automatic, so after X amount of attacks the turret automatically enters an overcharge state, and then use the summon flip as Detonate. But that would be a rather huge change and make turrets even more passive (and would ruin Healing Turret, though some might argue that’d be for the best).

problem is that it is indeed Survivability what turrets lack most currently they are one shot both by condi or power

then theres the fact their sustain was nerfed but their utility was left unchanged
as a matter of fact turrets havent been changed since before HoT so their skills are flat out outdated for example look at flame turret 1 stack of 2 seconds burning even after burning had its base damage nerfed in order to be stackable

the only turret that got an upgrade was Heal turret wich got its regen radius upped from 360 to 480

then theres the fact deployable turrets got removed so you can never place turrets in a safe spot during combat as you have to dump them on your feet

so as it is turret are flat out useless if you buff sustain and even revert them to the old uncrittable and uncondi able states they are still obsolee

Turrets were killed over an L2P issue wich should indicate engineers Anet doesnt care about the profession as a whole the Only nerf turrets needed was simple :

The removal of AutoTool Instalation’s 5% Hp regen every 3 seconds

just in case no one realize how much of a joke turrets are :

Thumper Turret: 11950 50s cd
Flame Turret: 8960 25s cd
Rifle Turret: 7470 20s cd
Net Turret: 7470 30s cd
Rocket Turret: 7470 50s cd
Healing Turret: 5980 20s cd
Elite 120s cd , turrets have access to a 30% damage reduction and 4s one time reflect on spawn , sounds nice until you realize that 2000 armor almost doubles this damage reduction

Bone Fiend 2600 armor 7000hp 24s cd
Bone Minion 2125 armor 5000hp 20s cd
Blood Fiend 2000 armor 13000hp 16s cd
Shadow Fiend 2125 armor 10700hp 24s cd
Flesh Wurm 2470 armor 9000hp 32s cd
Flesh Golem 2600 armor 13000hp 48s cd
Jagged Horror 2125 armor 8700hp passive spawn on kills, all are mobile, can gain 50% hp from trait as well as 25% damage and each can take conditions away and give to enemy instead and can even siphon hp

tank treads baby!

Electro.4173:

Not sure that would make turrets all that good even then, but it couldn’t hurt. Losing access to toolbelts is certainly a bummer.

That said, I wouldn’t want to lose the overcharge effects. Most of them are way too good to add them as the turret auto-attacks, so they’d likely just end up gone entirely. Perhaps what they could do instead is make the Detonate a chain skill off Overcharge. Any time your turret’s overcharge is on cooldown you have access to Detonate, and once the overcharge comes off cooldown the skill flips back to Overcharge again.

Sure, it would require double-tapping a turret in order to Detonate it, which may take some getting used to. But I don’t think it would be a complete gamebreaker or anything, especially since all Overcharges and Detonates are 0 cast time so you could still do a Detonate really fast. There’d probably be some complaints from people accidentally blowing up their turrets (like how some Necro players complain about exiting death shroud accidentally when trying to enter it because they double-tap) but that’s just a learning thing.

The other alternative would probably be just to make the overcharges automatic, so after X amount of attacks the turret automatically enters an overcharge state, and then use the summon flip as Detonate. But that would be a rather huge change and make turrets even more passive (and would ruin Healing Turret, though some might argue that’d be for the best).

I like the idea of overcharge being a chain skill, but instead after you overcharge you have access to the tool belt instead of detonate.

Righ now the only way to reliably get cleansing burst right after healing turret placement is to spam the crap out of the heal button so that cleansing burst starts at the very first HT tick. If detonate were to appear immediately, the turret is sure to be detonated every time (which gives less healing/s than picking it up) and the uproar in the engi community is going to be huge, especially since HT is the only turret most people play with.

I would assume most egnis would argue that the HT is one of the best options for healing currently and not really in need of being brought up anymore relative to the other means of healing. We do all acknowledge this right?

shion.2084:

I would assume most egnis would argue that the HT is one of the best options for healing currently and not really in need of being brought up anymore relative to the other means of healing. We do all acknowledge this right?

Absolutely. It’s the rest of them that seem to have been forgotten with the advent of gyros.
I think there are some good points in this thread so far. A few options, but the general consensus is that a) the base effects are not cutting it, and b) they need to encourage a more active play style by allowing use of the toolbelt while the turret is out (but not at the expense of decreased accessibility to the detonate mechanic).

Actually I’m going to add to this a few more things that occurred to me.
Further supporting the idea of somehow putting the overcharge effect into the basic attack (freeing up the chain skill for detonate so that the toolbelt is no longer blocked), I don’t think I have heard of anyone using turrets and not immediately overcharging. There’s further problems here, since some (ex. flame turret) have longer CD on the overcharge than on the placement skill. This pretty much ruins what is currently the only effective use of turrets (i.e. drop, overcharge, pick up for short CD or blast for… a blast).
Another, kind of independent issue is the inventions trait line. First, I have an issue with explosive turrets being in explosives when zero other turret traits are. Explosives isn’t exactly a general purpose trait line either, so putting this trait (which is nearly essential for turrets to be of use) in this trait line which otherwise doesn’t fit turrets at all is bad. Second, the master tier traits of inventions force a decision for turret builds that really isn’t fair to this already UP utility skill type: you can take the trait obviously meant for turrets (get some weak kitten boon application on turret placement) or the trait that is useful exclusively in turret builds (soothing detonation; I don’t know any other build with enough blast finished to make this worth it). I think the boons on turret placement really needs to be adept tier, since it’s so weak anyway, and make one of the current adept tier traits (any of them) master tier (maybe with a slight buff; maybe, although the importance of traits at higher tiers being stronger is pretty much gone now that partial trait lines aren’t a thing, so not really any reason to buff just because it’s now master tier).

Rezzet.3614:

just in case no one realize how much of a joke turrets are :

Thumper Turret: 11950 50s cd
Flame Turret: 8960 25s cd
Rifle Turret: 7470 20s cd
Net Turret: 7470 30s cd
Rocket Turret: 7470 50s cd
Healing Turret: 5980 20s cd
Elite 120s cd , turrets have access to a 30% damage reduction and 4s one time reflect on spawn , sounds nice until you realize that 2000 armor almost doubles this damage reduction

Bone Fiend 2600 armor 7000hp 24s cd
Bone Minion 2125 armor 5000hp 20s cd
Blood Fiend 2000 armor 13000hp 16s cd
Shadow Fiend 2125 armor 10700hp 24s cd
Flesh Wurm 2470 armor 9000hp 32s cd
Flesh Golem 2600 armor 13000hp 48s cd
Jagged Horror 2125 armor 8700hp passive spawn on kills, all are mobile, can gain 50% hp from trait as well as 25% damage and each can take conditions away and give to enemy instead and can even siphon hp

Perspective, yo. Ty for bringing the math.