Guild Wars 2

Well, I have run a spec similar to this since the HGH days (I always refused to do HGH):

30/0/20/20/0 (main variation from what I used to run is Power Shoes instead of Speedy Kits).

Anyway…I have become, in my mind, pretty good at solo roaming. I never fear a 1v1, have fun during 1v2s, and only get nervous at 1v3. Tonight that changed. I fought a Thief who didn’t 222222222222 against me. A condition burst Thief (somehow I haven’t ran into these before in a 1v1 situation). This guy would load me up with conditions, stealth, come back out at high health with all my conditions cleared.

Running away is not a solution. Is there any possible way to fight these guys?

What is the rest of your build? p/p for condis or rifle for power? Grenades or Tool kit?

• Fight in an open area away from any targets he can easily CnD off of so his only option is you.

• Lay down as much PBAoE (nades/bombs) in conjunction with dodges and channeled blocks to deny his CnD attempts.

• Outplay them.

I am P/P with Grenades/Tool Kit/Elixir S. I run mostly Rabid with some Dire.

I probably could have done better at avoiding his CnD attempts, but I was so worried about long row of conditions on me. I felt like a Necro had just used their Signet of Spite on me and then some.

Tsyras.5274:

I am P/P with Grenades/Tool Kit/Elixir S. I run mostly Rabid with some Dire.

I probably could have done better at avoiding his CnD attempts, but I was so worried about long row of conditions on me. I felt like a Necro had just used their Signet of Spite on me and then some.

you play HGH with 1 Elixir? Or do you use Elixir H? Conditions are our weakness. Go full HGH or remove Elixir and HGH by EG and move useful traits

Lupanic.6502:

Tsyras.5274:

I am P/P with Grenades/Tool Kit/Elixir S. I run mostly Rabid with some Dire.

I probably could have done better at avoiding his CnD attempts, but I was so worried about long row of conditions on me. I felt like a Necro had just used their Signet of Spite on me and then some.

you play HGH with 1 Elixir? Or do you use Elixir H? Conditions are our weakness. Go full HGH or remove Elixir and HGH by EG and move useful traits

In my OP I specifically stated I refused to do HGH even during its prime. I always try to make my own builds. The way the game has shifted though, my build is probably considered fairly mainstream.

Edit: I did used to run the Elixir Gun instead of Elixir S (actually did a 4-kit build), but I have swapped it to Elixir S for the ability to land stomps and the 5 second stealth.

ok. I bet you already knows it: To win this matchup you have to clear condis and to pressure the thief. The thief wins over time vs you because you can’t remove all the condis.

If you have EG + Backback Regenerator you have a lot of more time to deal with the thief and you have better condi removal. If you play your own build that’s ok. But maybe this thiefs are the counter for your build. Maybe the sigil of generosity is the answer. In this case you can put the stack of bleeding back to them

thats a hard matchup… the 4/15 patch made that thief build and its pretty unbearable. you have to outplay it. but its a dueling build, doesnt really have a chance against 2 people with good cc timing.

also, @lupanic
generosity isnt quite enough… every time you want to get a high stack of condis off you you have several cover condis and a 5 confusion stack punishing you for trying. and when you dont, you have nothing to give away.

I searched for the build and watched some youtube videos. It looks to be a really strong 1on1 build. Not much you can do. You have to chase the thief.

I’ve been having a fair bit of trouble with p/d thieves lately as well. The main thing is to treat it like a d/d thief and try not to let them land their CnDs. If they aren’t able to go into stealth frequently, they won’t be able to put a large amount of condis on you very easily.

Something like rocket boots can help you out if you get stuck with a long immob, cripple, or chill, which is how some p/d thieves will operate.

I don’t see you mentioned what you use as nourishment, so: don’t underestimate the power of minus condition duration food against this type of opponent too.
Also consider shield and reflect his stuff when he bursts out of stealth.
Consider rifle as well, because he is vulnerable to cc.
I strongly second the hint to not fight this opponent in range of targets which give him the possibility to CnD off.
Use LoS.

Tsyras.5274:

I am P/P with Grenades/Tool Kit/Elixir S. I run mostly Rabid with some Dire.

I probably could have done better at avoiding his CnD attempts, but I was so worried about long row of conditions on me. I felt like a Necro had just used their Signet of Spite on me and then some.

there’s your problem. you have no cleanses. i personally look for engies like that, no offense. because i as a necro main(main’d engineer first) know i can send back 12+ stacks of confusion and since the target doesn’t carry cleanses there’s nothing they can do(if they notice it, more often than not they press 1 too much and fall over)

P/D thief … it’s about as completely broken for solo roaming in WvW as it comes.

If the thief senses that you can dodge the CnD from dagger offhand, the thief will typically stealth from other means (critters, other nearby players, guards) or just leave via stealth heal or other weapon swap set. The bad thieves will only leave Shadow Refuge for an escape option which you can pull them out of.

Remember that the thief can stealth/CnD you from afar with Steal, Shadow Step and/or Infiltrator’s Signet activated just before the cast timer ends so you need to watch the animation very carefully. All the damage comes from Bleed + Poison/Torment/Elite use from Runes (and occasionally a 5x Confusion stack after Steal).

G’luck, 50% of the time, I just run from the cheese and don’t bother since you need to find a predictable/unexperienced P/D thief to win.

I find them to be just about the easiest kills in wvw. especially the ones using dire. I do however use elixirs, something the op doesnt seem to like.

one of this days I dueled Laela Blackbird, a great thief and all around cool guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdml5a8i5Fc). he was saying how unbeatable he was in 1v1 with his p/d dire build. he changed his mind after seeing how hopeless it was vs my build :p he even stopped using p/d + dire completely for a while after that.

I have a few clips recorded of me fighting p/d condi thieves , they usually last longer than normal, dunno if anyone is interested in seeing those fights.

edit: Im not trying to brag or anything, 1v1s in most cases are just down to what builds are being used.

I might be off topic, but what is this op build you are talking about? I just made a couple of days ago a thief and was curious about this build.

nihasa.5067:

I might be off topic, but what is this op build you are talking about? I just made a couple of days ago a thief and was curious about this build.

Maybe something like mine:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqYVlsMpopNNx7J8PNRMRx1O4dXUGho2NwCEAA-TpRAwAKOBAAeAAGOCAkLD45QA0b/BA

And to beat it as an engi just block once you see him put the venoms on, generally thiefs will just start. Also reflects from shield or the new turret bubble trait work well if you are running them.

or you could full cheese and do a venom sahre build nihasa!

Tsyras.5274:

Well, I have run a spec similar to this since the HGH days (I always refused to do HGH):

30/0/20/20/0 (main variation from what I used to run is Power Shoes instead of Speedy Kits).

Anyway…I have become, in my mind, pretty good at solo roaming. I never fear a 1v1, have fun during 1v2s, and only get nervous at 1v3. Tonight that changed. I fought a Thief who didn’t 222222222222 against me. A condition burst Thief (somehow I haven’t ran into these before in a 1v1 situation). This guy would load me up with conditions, stealth, come back out at high health with all my conditions cleared.

Running away is not a solution. Is there any possible way to fight these guys?

Dude I have had the exact same problem recently. There’s NOTHING I can do, I’ve fought this build with Thieves so many times yesterday and it sucks that I can’t find a way to beat them.

I play a condition build that uses Bomb Kit/Rocket Boots/Tool Kit, so I’d like to think I have a big enough balance of defensive and offensive capabilities to beat almost everyone in 1v1 as like yourself I find myself rarely losing, but I can’t do it. The build’s unbeatable.

It’s not fair how the Thief can just disappear while you’re ticking heavy damage with a heal on cd, and then they appear about 15 seconds later with three quarters of their health (when they were basically dead beforehand) and REAPPLY the initial burst. It’s too much, you’d probably have to play a variation of some Elixir Gun/heavily-traited Inventions build to stack enough toughness and vitality in order to survive that kind of burst imo.

righteousness.6028:

nihasa.5067:

I might be off topic, but what is this op build you are talking about? I just made a couple of days ago a thief and was curious about this build.

Maybe something like mine:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqYVlsMpopNNx7J8PNRMRx1O4dXUGho2NwCEAA-TpRAwAKOBAAeAAGOCAkLD45QA0b/BA

And to beat it as an engi just block once you see him put the venoms on, generally thiefs will just start. Also reflects from shield or the new turret bubble trait work well if you are running them.

Surely it’s futile though to do all of these defensive CDs before he has popped his almost permastealth? Usually against this build it’s after they regain the venom conditions that I get scared

Maskaganda.2043:

I find them to be just about the easiest kills in wvw. especially the ones using dire. I do however use elixirs, something the op doesnt seem to like.

one of this days I dueled Laela Blackbird, a great thief and all around cool guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdml5a8i5Fc). he was saying how unbeatable he was in 1v1 with his p/d dire build. he changed his mind after seeing how hopeless it was vs my build :p he even stopped using p/d + dire completely for a while after that.

I have a few clips recorded of me fighting p/d condi thieves , they usually last longer than normal, dunno if anyone is interested in seeing those fights.

edit: Im not trying to brag or anything, 1v1s in most cases are just down to what builds are being used.

That would be awesome of you to post them, I am sure folks here would love some insight.

Optics.3289:

righteousness.6028:

nihasa.5067:

I might be off topic, but what is this op build you are talking about? I just made a couple of days ago a thief and was curious about this build.

Maybe something like mine:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqYVlsMpopNNx7J8PNRMRx1O4dXUGho2NwCEAA-TpRAwAKOBAAeAAGOCAkLD45QA0b/BA

And to beat it as an engi just block once you see him put the venoms on, generally thiefs will just start. Also reflects from shield or the new turret bubble trait work well if you are running them.

Surely it’s futile though to do all of these defensive CDs before he has popped his almost permastealth? Usually against this build it’s after they regain the venom conditions that I get scared

Don’t let the fear control you, fear is the mind-killer.

Tsyras.5274:

I am P/P with Grenades/Tool Kit/Elixir S. I run mostly Rabid with some Dire.

I probably could have done better at avoiding his CnD attempts, but I was so worried about long row of conditions on me. I felt like a Necro had just used their Signet of Spite on me and then some.

I have been running a similar build. 30/0/20/20/0 or 30/0/10/20/10. P/P with Healing Turret/Grenades/Toolkit/Elixir S. As others have said, try replacing Toolkit with EG for those fights so you have that condi-cleanse from Super Elixir + light field. If you need the block, switch to P/S. I’ll also use Backpack Regen + Prot Injection instead of Invigorating Speed.

Pistol Shield with Toolkit and elixir C would be my instinct to run on this occasion.
Use your blocks to bounce/block the conditions before they reach you. Keep spamming the tool belt from elixir c to gain boons from conditions, then keep the utility of elixir C for an ‘oh crap button’.

Shield knockback is perfect for revealing stealthed thieves from their shadow refuge, with pull and pry bay being useful for if you can activate the pull just before they manage to stealth.
Traiting for power wrench is also great as it allows you to spam cripple on the thief and blind swing them when they are invisible.

Consider taking one of these:
- Rifle turret : Nice damage rapid fire with bleeds to cover condition removal
- Rocket turret : Nice damage with knockdown for CC
- Net turret : Nice CC…

The turret also works well with the (traited) tool kit as you can throw in back up repairs when the thief I completely untargettable, with the kit already out ready for a block.
The #5 on the pistol/shield also provides a nice ambush protection if you allow it to proc rather than throwing it for a daze. If the thief gets low, use the throw shield as an opener to spam a burst into them before they vanish.

Overall, conditions are hard to manage on a engineer, but something like the above would be good for countering thief conditions.
As always, running zerker will leave you very open to conditions.

Side note: Elixir gun can also replace the turret nicely as it provide access to condition removal (through blasting the light field from super elixir). The purge also works good for an extra spray and pray when the thief is stealthed. Super jump is a nice extra panic button and the acid is nice for placing if you cant knock them out refuge.

With backpack regenerator, regen from med turret and possibly heal from super elixir, it is a nice amount of regen to counter the degen.

Fragment.2793:

Pistol Shield with Toolkit and elixir C would be my instinct to run on this occasion.

if your instinct tells you you need elixir c, ignore it

I rarely use it since I normally don’t need to but elixir C isnt that bad, especially for a duel. its a one click full cleanse, if you are fighting a p/d thief chances are you are going to get confusion stacks on you, either from the steal trait or from projectile finishers through throw gunk.
having a one click full cleanse is a pretty big deal. other cleanses I’m aware of on engineer will always require more than one move and proc confusion more than once, exception being 409 elixirs and elixir C. thieves are not terrormancers, they won’t fear you while you have 8 condies on you, a stunbreak is -generally- irrelevant while fighting p/d thieves.
also, converting confusion into retal (or just having it from other sources) makes sneak attack very punishing on the thief.

Maskaganda.2043:

I find them to be just about the easiest kills in wvw. especially the ones using dire. I do however use elixirs, something the op doesnt seem to like.

one of this days I dueled Laela Blackbird, a great thief and all around cool guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdml5a8i5Fc). he was saying how unbeatable he was in 1v1 with his p/d dire build. he changed his mind after seeing how hopeless it was vs my build :p he even stopped using p/d + dire completely for a while after that.

I have a few clips recorded of me fighting p/d condi thieves , they usually last longer than normal, dunno if anyone is interested in seeing those fights.

edit: Im not trying to brag or anything, 1v1s in most cases are just down to what builds are being used.

haha I was in that situation to a friend on another server was saying how stupid op it was lets just say one 16k nades barrage from hgh zerker brought him back down to earth

I play vs condi thief with stealth at the start through my bombs. i can overload him with conditions and than he try to steal you to get 5 confusion stacks on you. Try to dodge this Randomly and than you can reflect his pistol shots after this he want go in his shadow refuge so use our tool kit to pull him to you and interrupt this. u must be very lucky when you wanna pwn them hard but its no soo hard to do this!