I love Engineer because it's not faceroll.
The main argument ppl will reply with is that if it takes considerably more effort to achieve the same results as another class that it is not balanced. Now I think Anet agrees with this as believe it or not they’re taking steps to place engineer on the same “skill” level as other classes.
In order to do this though you have to tone down the potential of the class and bring up the base damage/effectiveness. The difference between a great thief and an average thief isn’t much potential wise as any average build will function fairly well. The difference between a great engi and an average one is quite significant, hence the disparity of posts saying its fine or broken. You can have two people playing nades or FT, build slightly differently, play slightly differently and come to the forums with polar opposite opinions (not just its “ok” or “not my style”) on the effectiveness.
Now Anet could bring up our base first and then tone down our potential, but then you’d have the entire rest of the game crying OP instead of only a part of the engi community crying broken. Easy to see which way any logical person would approach it.
The only thing that worries me is huge changes that completely change the class as I’ve been victim to it twice now in as many games and it completely ruins the class for that minority that find the class “fine” as is. So far Anet as shown no such course, but then again so did the other games…
I have a fully geared out level 80 thief. A fully geared out level 80 mesmer. Both are faceroll easy in wvw. I love my engineer, because it requires more thought. I actually have to think intstead of just stack up 25 bleeds on a person, or 15 confusion stacks and watch them die.
This is exactly my point. You like engineer because it is inferior to other classes, which is a completely valid reason to like the profession.
If you want a challenge by playing an inferior class, look no further than engineer.
If you want a class that is on par with the other elite classes, do not roll an engineer.
But I’m trying, Ringo. I’m trying real hard to be the shepherd.
On my engineer, it’s like playing speed chess. Attacking/defending, where there is actually an ebb and flow in each 1v1 or 1v2.
You got the point, the others don’t play Chess and eat your knight like draughts.
I have a fully geared out level 80 thief. A fully geared out level 80 mesmer. Both are faceroll easy in wvw. I love my engineer, because it requires more thought. I actually have to think intstead of just stack up 25 bleeds on a person, or 15 confusion stacks and watch them die.
This is exactly my point. You like engineer because it is inferior to other classes, which is a completely valid reason to like the profession.
If you want a challenge by playing an inferior class, look no further than engineer.
If you want a class that is on par with the other elite classes, do not roll an engineer.
You’re misinterrpretting my post. I’m not saying Engineer is inferior. I still get the same results, I just have more options to get those results. On my thief I basically just spam a few moves. My engineer gives me way more options to do the same thing.
It takes way more swapping, but I am still wrecking people. The effort is greater, but engineer is in no way an inferior class.
In my opinion the only real difference between thief and engineer as far as results go, is my thief is superior at running away. (Honestly my thief rarely ever dies once I decide to run)
Engineer will always have the potential to be the most OP class because it brings SO much. The developers have to be careful with the class because of this. They will never be able to account for all the combos players will come up with.
I am glad they are taking their time. Do you really want Engineer to be flooded with bad players because it’s OP?
Personally I don’t. I’m 100% awesome with how engineers are playing right now, and the developers should take their time with tweaking engineers. (honestly fix the bugs, then work on the tweaks).
Well I for one hate artificially inflated or artificially deflated fighting. It happened to LOTRO. I played that game for years and suddenly with the release of mirkwood the regular mobs gained resistances to abilities so every single battle seemed like it took 5-10 minutes to kill anything until they added armor and weapons that lowered the enemies resistances. It was amazingly annoying. Needless to say I left the game until they fixed it. A similar thing is happening here with this one class all in the name of versatility. The problem is there’s another class that’s just as versatile that doesn’t have a single problem getting their bugs fixed immediately sometimes within the same patch day when requested by the players.
I tend to see a few people who seem to be in denial about how wrong this deflation is on this class and prefer to have it harder, I just can’t understand why anyone would think that it’s okay to treat one set of players differently then another.
Between the glaring issues with this class and the loot problems if your main is an engineer you pretty much have twice the disappointment in how this game is being handled. I know I do right now. smh.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
ANet has said balance is not easy. And really, it’s not.
Engineers take more effort to reach the top-level of their game, and can be absolutely incredible when played right. Problem is, they’re hard. They have a learning curve that’s higher than most other professions, and possibly even the highest. Unlike a D/D Elementalist, who is tough to learn, the Engineer doesn’t have a real burst rotation or particular battle plan. It’s all improv based on reacting and disrupting the enemy. Usually the D/D elementalist comes in with a plan of attack, with enough burst to gain mass advantage before the battle plan goes to eff and everyone’s improving.
When you get good at that improvisation… Then you’re REALLY good, and things click for our Engineer. Which is awesome.
However, it’s not awesome for a select group of players: The new players. The learning curve can be seen as insurmountable when easier things to learn crop up, like Signet Warriors and D/D “Spin to Win” Thieves. Are they better than Engineer? Not really. In fact, I never see Signet Warriors doing well in sPvP.
ANet does want to balance the learning curve so that new players aren’t discouraged. But they don’t want to take away that deep level of skill that the Engineer can achieve. That’s why balancing us is harder than just giving a damage boost. They don’t want to tell players to just L2P. It’s… Awkward at best for them to try to change things without having a drastic effect on the game state. That’s why they erred on the side of caution with the Grenade nerf last big patch.
TL:DR? Balancing is friggin’ hard. And Engineer is hard to learn. So we need to do our part for the Engineer community, and for Guild Wars 2 as a whole, to be a good, supportive community. ANet deserves our support, and so does anyone who wants to jump in and pick up the Engineer’s wrench. Besides, an Engineer shouldn’t be negative, but they should be constructive.
I’ve learned the enigeer class inside and out. I also play with a razer nostromo game pad, razer naga mouse, and razer deathstalker keyboard. I have every single key mapped out which allows me to never have to lift my hand from wasd (which is at my thumb) to hit any keybinding and have every single keybinding memorized from muscle memory. I control F1-F4 with my right hand on the mouse, and 1-0 with my left fingers (wasd jump and tab are all with my thunb).
With that said, if I take a day off playing the engineer I can visibly see my performance decrease.
I can take 2 months off playing a thief/warrior and it is as if I never left the class.
So yes, the engineer is exponentially more complicated, and it requires perfect execution to be 80% of what can be done on the top tier classes.
I still play the engineer (almost 700 hours played), but please don’t come to these boards and tell people that balance is hard so it is ok that the engineer player has too do WAY more to get significantly less.
But I’m trying, Ringo. I’m trying real hard to be the shepherd.
I’ve learned the enigeer class inside and out. I also play with a razer nostromo game pad, razer naga mouse, and razer deathstalker keyboard. I have every single key mapped out which allows me to never have to lift my hand from wasd (which is at my thumb) to hit any keybinding and have every single keybinding memorized from muscle memory. I control F1-F4 with my right hand on the mouse, and 1-0 with my left fingers (wasd jump and tab are all with my thunb).
With that said, if I take a day off playing the engineer I can visibly see my performance decrease.
I can take 2 months off playing a thief/warrior and it is as if I never left the class.
So yes, the engineer is exponentially more complicated, and it requires perfect execution to be 80% of what can be done on the top tier classes.
I still play the engineer (almost 700 hours played), but please don’t come to these boards and tell people that balance is hard so it is ok that the engineer player has too do WAY more to get significantly less.
Just because you do something a lot, doesn’t mean you do it well. (the following is an example, not an insult) Just because you flip burgers all day, doesn’t make you a Chef.
I play engineer well. I have just as much success with engineer as I do with my mesmer and thief. Sure if I take a break there’s a learning curve, but it’s quickly back up to 100%.
Because you can only play at 80% doesn’t mean the engineer class is bad, you’re just not as good with engineer as you are with the other classes.
It’s not the professions fault. Honestly it’s not. The engineer is just as capable as playing at top level, it just requires more skill. When you get that skill you’ll rock face.
WvW with engineer is so much fun for me. Everyone I see tries to chase me down for easy kill, especially thieves. They will soon realize that engineers can also be dangerous in 1v1.
I usually have no problems dealing with warriors, thieves or any other profession. Is it because enginners are so rare that ppl don’t know how to counter one or is it like that only in WvW? And I play full glass static discharge build with no stunbreaks.
Server: Aurora Glade
Profession: Engineer
IGN: Lord Fortack
Profession: Engineer
IGN: Lord Fortack
WvW with engineer is so much fun for me. Everyone I see tries to chase me down for easy kill, especially thieves. They will soon realize that engineers can also be dangerous in 1v1.
I usually have no problems dealing with warriors, thieves or any other profession. Is it because enginners are so rare that ppl don’t know how to counter one or is it like that only in WvW? And I play full glass static discharge build with no stunbreaks.
WvW is what’s making you surprisingly destructive. In sPvP, you fight the same 5 people multiple times. They’ll learn what you can and can’t do, then exploit it. You’ll get conditioned to death. I have a similar build and that’s precisely what happens. It’s enough to get an initial advantage though.
In WvW, you don’t have time to learn your enemy, so unusual builds, like Burst Engineer, have less issues. By the time the realize what your weakness is, you’ve probably moved on to a new mission, a new zerg, or straight up logged off. When you’re fighting some 100 people on each side, you don’t care about the individual soldier as much.
Not to say you’re bad. Just that your build is much better for WvW than sPvP. Two different flavors, but both are delicious.
I’ve learned the enigeer class inside and out. I also play with a razer nostromo game pad, razer naga mouse, and razer deathstalker keyboard. I have every single key mapped out which allows me to never have to lift my hand from wasd (which is at my thumb) to hit any keybinding and have every single keybinding memorized from muscle memory. I control F1-F4 with my right hand on the mouse, and 1-0 with my left fingers (wasd jump and tab are all with my thunb).
With that said, if I take a day off playing the engineer I can visibly see my performance decrease.
I can take 2 months off playing a thief/warrior and it is as if I never left the class.
So yes, the engineer is exponentially more complicated, and it requires perfect execution to be 80% of what can be done on the top tier classes.
I still play the engineer (almost 700 hours played), but please don’t come to these boards and tell people that balance is hard so it is ok that the engineer player has too do WAY more to get significantly less.
I never said Engineer was a top-tier class. But I also know that Tiers aren’t everything. You don’t have to pick Ryu or Sagat to win at Street Fighter. The Chicago Cubs can win baseball games. Is it harder? Yes. Does that mean that they do less because of it? No.
There are people who research tier lists for fighting games, and come in fighting with only the strongest characters. But some people see a goofy guy in a pink gi, and think, “Challenge Accepted.” Then they learn the guy inside and out. They learn their opposition. Then, suddenly, something clicks, and Dan becomes a beast, tearing Sagat a new eye-hole in a flurry of frustratingly offbeat attacks and dedicated skill.
Also, I’d like to see any class, at all… Bring nearly as much control to a battle. An Engineer dominates the literal space in which s/he plays with knockbacks, snares, and secondary movement. Maybe somebody can dodge more. Maybe someone can perma-cripple. But nobody puts it all together like an Engineer. It’s beautiful to watch in motion.
(edited by Wasdclick.1764)
everyone here can write and obv writes alot of crap
i dont care who the hell you are if you spent 954599849898489k hours in your engineer
A good Engineer VS Good mesmer the engineer will die
A good engineer vs a bad mesmer the engineer will win
what is everyones point i killed a mesmer i killed a thief? i killed a mesmer + Thief directly after in WvW but i even saw both had lost half of their brain
i can go on any proffesion level 50 and write oh i am awesome at zergs… i Kill PEOPLE!
Its these delicious yet pointless threads again.
“I like playing Engineer, now fighting scrubs is challenging because of the handicap i have to fight with.”
Congratulations, so you like to turn the game up to Hard-difficulty.
Its these delicious yet pointless threads again.
“I like playing Engineer, now fighting scrubs is challenging because of the handicap i have to fight with.”
Congratulations, so you like to turn the game up to Hard-difficulty.
true
Anet NERF me 90% more and make me more handicap so i can enjoy the game 90% more!
In regards to the original post,
The engineer is awesome, but you have to admit that 30% is a huge nerf to an auto attack for grenades.
The BIGGEST problem we have with engineers right now, is that a lot of traits and skills are broken and aren’t functioning together as they’re supposed to, so we are performing at a much lower capacity. Instead of modifying what Engineers are capable of, how about we get what they were originally intended to do, to work.
But really, being proud of your class is one thing. Blindly denying that it has problems – is another. Try to see the difference.
EU Aurora Glade
In regards to the original post,
The engineer is awesome, but you have to admit that 30% is a huge nerf to an auto attack for grenades.
The BIGGEST problem we have with engineers right now, is that a lot of traits and skills are broken and aren’t functioning together as they’re supposed to, so we are performing at a much lower capacity. Instead of modifying what Engineers are capable of, how about we get what they were originally intended to do, to work.
Grenades haven’t been my main attack, in forever. So the nerf is meaningless to me. I use EG/TK/FT ankittenraited for it ( build ) The fact that we aren’t even at full capacity, well we’ll be OP when they “fix” us.
Right now, engineers are like the Death Star, even at partial power pretty freaking amazing.
Just because you’re not good at the class, doesn’t mean the class is bad.
Grenades haven’t been my main attack, in forever. So the nerf is meaningless to me. I use EG/TK/FT ankittenraited for it ( build ) The fact that we aren’t even at full capacity, well we’ll be OP when they “fix” us.
Right now, engineers are like the Death Star, even at partial power pretty freaking amazing.
Just because you’re not good at the class, doesn’t mean the class is bad.
Would you mind explaining how you play your build? Your trait selection is rather… interesting. For example you went fully down the Tools line for Scope, a trait that rewards you for standing still instead of moving around. Do you actually make an effort to stand in one place during a fight?
Borlis Pass solo roamer
Right now, engineers are like the Death Star, even at partial power pretty freaking amazing.
Best quote on the whole kitten forum.
And where are these “good” mesmers? I don’t think they exist. The whole class exists to confuse noobs. They can be great in a dungeon, keeping agro off everyone, if they are good. But they are so squishy, they’re like pinatas, hit them and sparkly stuff comes out.
And I can stop playing my main engi for a week or more, play any of the five alts (no mes or thief, they were boring), come back and be like “Oh, yeah, this is what it’s like to rule the world!”
I totally want to rename my Yoda as The Death Star now.
Engineers rely a lot more on outplaying opponents than other professions overall, because they are so control orientated. That’s not to say you don’t benefit from smart plays on other professions, cause you do, but you can brute force kills with most of the other ones. Engineers really don’t. They need to leverage their ability to control the pace and spacing of the fight for their advantage to maintain the upper-hand to be successful. Knowing how to do that is not an easily learned skill.
I find playing engineer to be like blue control in Magic the Gathering, you’ll win, at your own pace, while shutting down chances of victory for your foe.
People need to learn that there is more to the game than just making numbers pop up on the screen.
As much as I like the idea that playing an Engineer requires more skill than playing other classes, I dislike the reason that it does. The Engineer is ‘slapped with the hybrid tax,’ as many have said, often pointing out a moment later (just like I’m doing here) that the Elementalist is not. In fact, the Elementalist seems to only suffer in that it’s a mage, and thus squishy, as opposed to having its ability to do damage sacrificed.
Not saying the class can’t be good if played right, despite the difficulty involved. My Engineer is my only level 80, and there’s a reason for that. I’d like to think I’m pretty good at it, too, despite running, primarily, with a Turret build.
That being said, say all you like about the Engineer being excellent at control (it’s true), being penalized for, according to Anet’s own ‘class balance philosophy’, being second-fiddle in versatility is unfair. And if they decide to change their reason to ‘Well, the Engineer has a lot of control?’ That’ll still be unfair, because not everybody in the class is going to use the control. I barely make use of it, myself, aside from trying to keep enemies away in solo PvE by detonating healing turrets like landmines and launching nets like a mad fisherman.
My point is: Anet really needs to rethink what they’re doing with the Engineer, pick somewhere for it to shine, and then run with that. Every other class has somewhere to be the best. We should, too.
WvW with engineer is so much fun for me. Everyone I see tries to chase me down for easy kill, especially thieves. They will soon realize that engineers can also be dangerous in 1v1.
I usually have no problems dealing with warriors, thieves or any other profession. Is it because enginners are so rare that ppl don’t know how to counter one or is it like that only in WvW? And I play full glass static discharge build with no stunbreaks.WvW is what’s making you surprisingly destructive. In sPvP, you fight the same 5 people multiple times. They’ll learn what you can and can’t do, then exploit it. You’ll get conditioned to death. I have a similar build and that’s precisely what happens. It’s enough to get an initial advantage though.
In WvW, you don’t have time to learn your enemy, so unusual builds, like Burst Engineer, have less issues. By the time the realize what your weakness is, you’ve probably moved on to a new mission, a new zerg, or straight up logged off. When you’re fighting some 100 people on each side, you don’t care about the individual soldier as much.
Not to say you’re bad. Just that your build is much better for WvW than sPvP. Two different flavors, but both are delicious.
I’m rank 21 in sPvP, I have played there with my build long before I even started playing WvW. And I just did some sPvP again and it’s pretty much the same as I thought. My burst is not as high as in WvW but the skill difference is not that huge in my opinion, I’m still way faster than some players in sPvP. If players are adapting to my playstyle, what’s stopping me doing the same, I have many tricks in my sleeve. But in tournaments it may be like you said.
Engineer requires much more skill than the basic professions and you can be really good if you practise enough. And situations like when skilled engineer encounters skilled thief / mesmer and the engineer only loses because he’s engineer are really rare. Its more likely that someone makes a mistake and therefore loses.
Server: Aurora Glade
Profession: Engineer
IGN: Lord Fortack
Profession: Engineer
IGN: Lord Fortack
engi can be played facerolling in mind. Some engineers out their don’t touch kits and spec everything for rifle damage and doing a lot of discharges from their toobelt (LOL). very easy to play if you want it to b
Just call me Lunar
(edited by Lunar Corporation.5720)
I think people are missing something here. Although the professions in GW2 are not 100% melee or ranged, there is an assumption based on the name and weapons how a class will play out. Rangers look to be the typical mmo pet class with bows and pets…looks like ranged play to me. Engineers can only equip ranged weapons and kits…but the ranged weapon is more easily understood when reading about the class, hence engineers look like a ranged class.
I would be willing to bet 90% of the “engineers suck” arguments come from people who rolled the class to be played range not melee. I have yet to see a single engineer “ranged” build that excels. All the ones people play or link are melee specs. Any ranged spec engineers had has been nerfed.
I think this is where a lot of people say the class sucks…because as a ranged 1v1 class, they do and always have. Yet, the new to the game assumption is that the class is ranged. So people get them to 80, think all the sucking has to do with gear, grind or buy a set of exotics and still suck as a ranged class.
IMO that is the very definition of broken. The class can not be played as advertised.
static discharge glass cannon build is the best burst build ive played out of the 5 geared 80’s i have…imo better then thief/war/mes
using goggles/battering ram/wrench with it
tip: use goggles right after overcharged shot and it breaks the self kb instantly
variations of Poiz – Talons [BT] – Fort Aspenwood
If a class is hard to play then mastering it should let you do things others can’t or give a slight edge so all the effort pays off. The issue is that the easy to play face roll classes still outperform you as an engi whereas an engineer that is played perfectly and the person knows what they are doing still only manages to do alright and not even close to as good as a warrior spamming hundred blades/kill shots.
static discharge glass cannon build is the best burst build ive played out of the 5 geared 80’s i have…imo better then thief/war/mes
using goggles/battering ram/wrench with it
tip: use goggles right after overcharged shot and it breaks the self kb instantly
not even. My engineer is my full exotic power, crit and crit damage character…warrior is not even full glass cannon and he crits with a rifle a LOT harder than engineer with a explosive, firearms, tool build. I am using goggles, battering ram and wrench and I dont hit anywhere NEAR what a rifle, axe, GS warrior does….and my mesmer who is a toughness vit gear and build can do more damage and last a lot longer and brings a lot more utility to the group.
If a class is hard to play then mastering it should let you do things others can’t or give a slight edge so all the effort pays off. The issue is that the easy to play face roll classes still outperform you as an engi whereas an engineer that is played perfectly and the person knows what they are doing still only manages to do alright and not even close to as good as a warrior spamming hundred blades/kill shots.
The thing is, the class can do all those things. Well played Engineers are nigh unbeatable. Have you seen the Tankcat videos or are people all pretending they don’t exist?
Got anything like that for PvE? PvP doesn’t interest me at all to be honest.
static discharge glass cannon build is the best burst build ive played out of the 5 geared 80’s i have…imo better then thief/war/mes
using goggles/battering ram/wrench with it
tip: use goggles right after overcharged shot and it breaks the self kb instantly
not even. My engineer is my full exotic power, crit and crit damage character…warrior is not even full glass cannon and he crits with a rifle a LOT harder than engineer with a explosive, firearms, tool build. I am using goggles, battering ram and wrench and I dont hit anywhere NEAR what a rifle, axe, GS warrior does….and my mesmer who is a toughness vit gear and build can do more damage and last a lot longer and brings a lot more utility to the group.
Your warrior might crit harder, but then has almost nothing in the way of defence like an engineer.
Your rifle warrior lines up kill shot, last minute I have the choice of reflecting it back in his/her face, simply blocking it with shield #5, or Tool Kit #4. Warriors catch me off guard, sure they tear me up, but mostly they don’t.
I get a “bad link” error.
Can you show or throw a different link to your build.
I’ve just about given up on my 80 Engineer. This may bring me back.
I checked your twitch and youtube and they don’t show your build.
Also, a basic strategy to your fights.
Really appreciate your help.
I dont agree.
Its not inferior, nor “chess” like.
I found it kittennig boring. So did 3 out of my 9 friends that started the game….it even made 1 leave the game.
Kits? Even more boring…almost all are the same, or oyu have to constantly switch. If i pick a weapon, i would like to wield it,,not switch constantly -_-
Your all araund is basically, cant do anything decently.
Fun to paly because of inferior? Beeing kitten is fun ? Interesting way to put it.
The ONLY reson i like it is because it can tank decently, and not many players play it.
static discharge glass cannon build is the best burst build ive played out of the 5 geared 80’s i have…imo better then thief/war/mes
using goggles/battering ram/wrench with it
tip: use goggles right after overcharged shot and it breaks the self kb instantly
not even. My engineer is my full exotic power, crit and crit damage character…warrior is not even full glass cannon and he crits with a rifle a LOT harder than engineer with a explosive, firearms, tool build. I am using goggles, battering ram and wrench and I dont hit anywhere NEAR what a rifle, axe, GS warrior does….and my mesmer who is a toughness vit gear and build can do more damage and last a lot longer and brings a lot more utility to the group.
Your warrior might crit harder, but then has almost nothing in the way of defence like an engineer.
Your rifle warrior lines up kill shot, last minute I have the choice of reflecting it back in his/her face, simply blocking it with shield #5, or Tool Kit #4. Warriors catch me off guard, sure they tear me up, but mostly they don’t.
You have 20k+ hp, higher armor and you can swap weapon to greatsword for example and use those amazing mobility skills to run away from pretty much any bad situation. You also have easy access to swiftness.
Engineer has no mobility skills besides boons. Rifle 5th skills could be considered mobility skill if it didn’t locked player in place for 1s.
static discharge glass cannon build is the best burst build ive played out of the 5 geared 80’s i have…imo better then thief/war/mes
using goggles/battering ram/wrench with it
tip: use goggles right after overcharged shot and it breaks the self kb instantly
not even. My engineer is my full exotic power, crit and crit damage character…warrior is not even full glass cannon and he crits with a rifle a LOT harder than engineer with a explosive, firearms, tool build. I am using goggles, battering ram and wrench and I dont hit anywhere NEAR what a rifle, axe, GS warrior does….and my mesmer who is a toughness vit gear and build can do more damage and last a lot longer and brings a lot more utility to the group.
Your warrior might crit harder, but then has almost nothing in the way of defence like an engineer.
Your rifle warrior lines up kill shot, last minute I have the choice of reflecting it back in his/her face, simply blocking it with shield #5, or Tool Kit #4. Warriors catch me off guard, sure they tear me up, but mostly they don’t.
You have 20k+ hp, higher armor and you can swap weapon to greatsword for example and use those amazing mobility skills to run away from pretty much any bad situation. You also have easy access to swiftness.
Engineer has no mobility skills besides boons. Rifle 5th skills could be considered mobility skill if it didn’t locked player in place for 1s.
Engineer does actually have pretty easy access to swiftness and perma-swiftness. All it takes is a Medkit, Elixir B, and/or Speedy Kits, or any of the above in combination, depending on Boon Duration increases. Probably more required than the Warrior’s stuff, but still.
Just because you’re not good at the class, doesn’t mean the class is bad.
I want to play you in PVP. My main’s name is Khrimace. I play weekends. I’m gonna show you just how bad I can be…