Guild Wars 2

I hear so many complaints that Mesmers are OP and they need to be nerfed. Then I came across this.

While I personally have no problems against most players. I met this guy. He destroyed me in 4 seconds.

I dont pvp, but I can only assume this guy has the best of the best gear vs people who just have average gear.

In other games we have a thing called “Pub Stomping”.
Its, usually, a group of good players that know each other join a game where the other team are just random players thats never met each other before.
I’m sure you can guess who wins.

I assume its something like that, only instead of a group of good players, you have one guy that was probably boosted by friends or a guild to be far better geared than the average player would be. Allowing him to take alot more damage and dealing alot more damage.

Uh, it’s WvW the only advantage he should have is some stats, even then it’s not a huge advantage.

It’s WVW. Builds and such mean nothing in it.

Yeah its a very typical version of the ‘burst discharge toolbelt’ build.

What you need: Rifle, Med kit, Rifle Turret, Tool Kit, Utility Goggles (optional), Supply Crate

For stats and gear: Sigil of air, berserkers gear, rune of divinity.

Idea is basically: get lots of huge crits from the toolbelt skills of skills, while spawning high critting ‘lightning discharges’, and since the toolbelt skill of utility goggles and rifle turret is instant, it does a lot of lightning discharges at once. But this build, he toggled utility goggles for grenade kit, I respect that really, grenade barrage is huge burst.

Its a very squishy build, and it only really excels at one role, so while it may make for some nice videos, I wouldn’t recommend it for anything other than trolling stragglers and niche sPvP scenarios.

Plus, don’t forget WVW doesn’t fully scale. You still have your kittened year vs his exotic gear. He will win no matter what build he would run.
Don’t let it bother you, Engineers aren’t anywhere near this good on a balanced playing field.

you are going to tell me an level lets say 10 – 20 – 30 – 40 supposed to kill a fully geared exotic Proffesion fully traited

hell i can say a thief 2hit me with heartseeker attack or what its called

Bloodtau.4672:

Plus, don’t forget WVW doesn’t fully scale. You still have your kittened year vs his exotic gear. He will win no matter what build he would run.
Don’t let it bother you, Engineers aren’t anywhere near this good on a balanced playing field.

I disagree, its not that the engineer he faced was particularly good, he wasn’t really. He was just going through the motions of the build he was using.

In sPvP for example, I could run the same build and get similar results.

The reason that build shines is because it does huge burst damage, which really hurts low health and low survivability builds. Its like a hard counter to glass cannon builds. It wrecks them in a few seconds.

The thing you should note is: the build has the advantage you see. It does a lot of burst, it does it fast, and its pretty fun.

But you need to note that that was a snappily edited video. He has very little condition removal, damage mitigation and very low health and toughness.

He will die, and he only really excels at single target burst.

Its about pros, and cons, and that video shows the pros very well. But I doubt you will have as much fun as he did, when a slight breeze ruins your day.

Lyuben.2613:

Bloodtau.4672:

Plus, don’t forget WVW doesn’t fully scale. You still have your kittened year vs his exotic gear. He will win no matter what build he would run.
Don’t let it bother you, Engineers aren’t anywhere near this good on a balanced playing field.

I disagree, its not that the engineer he faced was particularly good, he wasn’t really. He was just going through the motions of the build he was using.

In sPvP for example, I could run the same build and get similar results.

The reason that build shines is because it does huge burst damage, which really hurts low health and low survivability builds. Its like a hard counter to glass cannon builds. It wrecks them in a few seconds.

The thing you should note is: the build has the advantage you see. It does a lot of burst, it does it fast, and its pretty fun.

But you need to note that that was a snappily edited video. He has very little condition removal, damage mitigation and very low health and toughness.

He will die, and he only really excels at single target burst.

Its about pros, and cons, and that video shows the pros very well. But I doubt you will have as much fun as he did, when a slight breeze ruins your day.

The build listed is not that great in spvp any more. It was like 2 betas ago but not any more.

Bloodtau.4672:

Lyuben.2613:

Bloodtau.4672:

Plus, don’t forget WVW doesn’t fully scale. You still have your kittened year vs his exotic gear. He will win no matter what build he would run.
Don’t let it bother you, Engineers aren’t anywhere near this good on a balanced playing field.

I disagree, its not that the engineer he faced was particularly good, he wasn’t really. He was just going through the motions of the build he was using.

In sPvP for example, I could run the same build and get similar results.

The reason that build shines is because it does huge burst damage, which really hurts low health and low survivability builds. Its like a hard counter to glass cannon builds. It wrecks them in a few seconds.

The thing you should note is: the build has the advantage you see. It does a lot of burst, it does it fast, and its pretty fun.

But you need to note that that was a snappily edited video. He has very little condition removal, damage mitigation and very low health and toughness.

He will die, and he only really excels at single target burst.

Its about pros, and cons, and that video shows the pros very well. But I doubt you will have as much fun as he did, when a slight breeze ruins your day.

The build listed is not that great in spvp any more. It was like 2 betas ago but not any more.

Agreed, but I am saying that I will get similar results as he did in WvW with it.

I.e, high burst damage that takes people down.

Its good for 1v1s and stragglers, but aside from that, its not that great in WvW.

It’s a gimmick build that most people play for a day or two and then abandon when they realize it’s not really viable outside of murdering undergeared nubs in WvW.

I play this build sometimes in spvp.

As other says, its a glass cannon counter.

If you find a straggler or a roamer, on their own. You can easilly burst them down.

The problems with this build is, if you run into 2 players, your dead. No escapes, no mobility. If someone survives your burst, you pretty useless until your cooldowns come off. If someone dodges your burst, your pretty useless until your cooldowns come off.

Its a niche build as others say, but can be alot of fun

a guy with best gear meets some undergeared guys and stomps them with all abilities he has available. what is so special about that? place this guy in a real fight and his build will be useless. 2 dodges, some thoughness and his damage does not even scratch 50% of the hp. you can see this in this video well, as soon as some real fight shows up he has to run…

Look like he’s traited for rifle rather than grenades, My Grenade barrages hit for that high (higher when every hit is a crit) often.

a pvp build without elixir c? must be wvwvw noob bashing

Visionary.5681:

I play this build sometimes in spvp.

As other says, its a glass cannon counter.

If you find a straggler or a roamer, on their own. You can easilly burst them down.

The problems with this build is, if you run into 2 players, your dead. No escapes, no mobility. If someone survives your burst, you pretty useless until your cooldowns come off. If someone dodges your burst, your pretty useless until your cooldowns come off.

Its a niche build as others say, but can be alot of fun

Mostly agreed – but no mobility? That’s wrong.
He almost surely has perma-swiftness from speedy kits, and possibly perma-vigor from invigorating speed. That’s why engies make such great roamers.

Any class can do damage like that in full divinity gear and exotic power/precision/+cirt damage gear from top to bottom.

Warriors can do that with a basic broad sword weapons skill like hundred blades.

Pure glass cannon as others have stated.

He is 30 explosive, 20 firearms 20 tools.
No invigorating speed.

No might stacks. and that crazy power.

CoF gear. which is Power/prec/crit damage.
so he’ll have like 80% crit rate, and deal over 200% damage on crits.

As stated, thats what it looks like for anyone using power/prec/crit.
Its scaling is broken.
The only counter is avoidance. toughness doesn’t scale enough vs it either.

Yeah, avoidance. It is kind of funny to see that not one person in that video uses a dodge at all, then read how everyone is shocked that they died so easily.

coglin.1496:

Yeah, avoidance. It is kind of funny to see that not one person in that video uses a dodge at all, then read how everyone is shocked that they died so easily.

how can they dodge when most of the times he use net shot to immobilize them?

There are plenty of immobilizes in the game, and if you do not have a counter for them, it doesn’t matter what class it is, you will take whatever damage they are given.

Shields skill #4 would bounce those grenades right back to him.

Shadow return would clear a thief out of he area and the net.

Every class has 4 stun breakers available to them except ranger, which has 2.

If players do not have counter for simple things of that nature, now your simply justifying bad game play or a lacking build, and accrediting the guy in the video for it. I saw him kill another engineer in that video that had a rifle. Overcharge shot (unless it is bugged) moves you to a different location, and counters immobilization.

SharKol.3178:

coglin.1496:

Yeah, avoidance. It is kind of funny to see that not one person in that video uses a dodge at all, then read how everyone is shocked that they died so easily.

how can they dodge when most of the times he use net shot to immobilize them?

dodge the net too? and/or cleanse it.
net/immobalize is not a stun btw. stun breakers do not work on it. a condition removal does that.
Stun break works on"fear, stun, knockdown, knockback"
Not sure on daze.

Rocket boots are a stun breaker, and they work on it just fine. I have 4 other classes to 30+ but the majority of my experience is with the engineer, and I know rocket boots work on it. As well as overcharge shot.

I understand your point. I am simply pointing out that there are several counters. The lack of using one doesn’t make the player in the video better, it just makes the others accountable for their own demise.

Particularly if you look at the hit points and defense he has, any counter alleviates a lot of his build potential. Counter his net shot, and with that low Hp pool and lack of defense and you should shred him like paper, that is the only point I am getting at.

I don’t think anyone really was defending the guy in the video :S

Its fairly obvious that he just cuts and edits it so that he is shown destroying glass cannon stragglers, which that build excels at.

I don’t feel that it is a fair point though, to just say “stun break” and “dodge”, to every situation that burst happens. Burst does exist, and you don’t have infinite dodges, nor infinite stun breakers.

The real way to counter such a build, isn’t by denying his strengths exist, they do. He does a lot of damage at once and hits very hard, even a single hip shot does a lot of damage. Instead, focus on his weaknesses, which is lack of condition removal, lack of HP, lack of defenses, lacking a stun breaker of his own.

coglin.1496:

Rocket boots are a stun breaker, and they work on it just fine. I have 4 other classes to 30+ but the majority of my experience is with the engineer, and I know rocket boots work on it. As well as overcharge shot.

I understand your point. I am simply pointing out that there are several counters. The lack of using one doesn’t make the player in the video better, it just makes the others accountable for their own demise.

Particularly if you look at the hit points and defense he has, any counter alleviates a lot of his build potential. Counter his net shot, and with that low Hp pool and lack of defense and you should shred him like paper, that is the only point I am getting at.

hmm. both of those have self knock backs. I wonder if that is what is breaking it. I am pretty sure ElixirR won’t, unless you have 409. Same with my elementalist, armor of earth wouldn’t break immobilize last I checked. Again, possible something has changed since I last put it to the test.

I appreciate what your saying. It doesn’t change the point though. The point is, there are still a great many counters for any and all professions, that would easily negate his style of attack.

Every profession has a glass cannon build of this nature, warrior class cannon eviscerate/hundred blades focus build comes to mind. In both the warrior build I mentioned, and the play shown in the video, they can easily be countered.

Rocket boots work on immobilize because they also remove the CC conditions. Try doing that with something that only breaks stuns, like Elixir R. It won’t work.

But yeah, there’s tons of things that will get you out of a net, and a burst build becomes useless if you dodge or reflect during the burst itself, so much of it will miss in that short time. I’d like to see him try that with a couple stacks of confusion, he’d turn himself into a fabulous purple mist in seconds.

About the net, it is a terrible immobilise. Heck, if a player is simply moving normally it misses the large majority of the time.

As people said this is a gimmick build which relies on lots of lucky set ups to be effective. Don’t let it make you think the class has redeemed it’s self…

Let me explain OPs video and build with a build I run in sPvP since beta from time to time if all I want is some silly insta-killing in hottjoin-sPvP-matches, which is kind of similar to OPs:

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.20.0.0.0.80.98.82.100.102.2.2.44.230.0.0.244.249.246.0.0.0.0.0.0.291.287.0.10.30.0.5.25

Pros: The frontloaded burst is insane! And the CD of it is incredible low + you don’t even need to aim like OP needs to! If you get the drop on someone he is gone, no questions asked. I’ve bursted heartseeker and pistol-whip thieves before they could click their skills a second time, and 100-0 eles and other squishies (like warriors with their frenzy on and dps-rangers) in 2 seconds. But this relies on enemies not dodging, blocking, or heaven prevent reflecting, and low toughnees+vit-pools (it is a counter to enemies thinking they can burst YOU down with their dps builds).

Cons: You are squishy as kitten. You have (even more) burst than a thief, but without the stealth to get out of unfavourable positions. You have to utilize your 1200-1000 range in groupfights, or you are gone instantly. 1v2 gets incredible hard, as you can maybe down one with your burst, but get toasted by the other one afterwards without any chance to secure the stomp. This build especially works well in zergy hot-join matches, or on unsuspecting foes in WvWvW, but in tournys all you can really do is roam the map and help points out with your firepower – clean up quickly and move on. Don’t try to hold anything on your own. In anything but a 1v1 you have to play like a chicken and stand back, until you know it is cleanup-time, and even then some immobilizes can ruin your day.

This build, and OP ones, are not builds that will win you tournaments single-handedly. They are builds that grant you these 250-350 points per round in hotjoin matches in sPvP easily. They CAN work in tPvP, if you fill the niche role of the fifth roaming player, that gets its combo set-up by the ally defending the node (coordination over teamspeak) – burst+chain CC quickly, and moves on to the next node that gets contested. But again: If you try to assault a node with a defensive-guardian on it, or try to hold a node on your own, you will just die instantly and be of no use at all to anyone. And in WvWvW you will simply be of no use in any large-scale fights because of your single-target-only burst, squishyness, no utility and no stealth to get out of bad positions.

The guy did some crazy damage but he is a glass cannon. No toughness no vitality, so I wonder why didn’t anyone drop him. “pub bashing” maybe?

All his opponents were upscaled to 80 as in this thread is stupid.
Also his build is purely offensive. A thief will kill him with 3 crits (Steal, C&D, Backstab).

This is a full bore hold nothing back glass cannon build. Hes also in full exotics from the look of it.

For comparison, He is hitting for 3k when a warrior or other more bursty class could be doing 3x that in melee.

Its brutal once you consider he is doing this with a lot of AOE attacks however. Its really a hard counter to mesmers though…

Until you realise that every single attack he is unloading is a projectile and you can reflect them all on him with good timing.

I dont think you can reflect grenade, and yes I do agree, that guys is full exotic and glass as he focus all on power & crit

That’s a pure burst build. He is using grenade kit, rifle turret, and tool kit.

With good crits grenade barrage will do 6-7k + a 1.5 lightning bolt (can hit you twice if it bounces) rifle turret will do 1k + another 1.5 lightning bolt, and throw wrench will do 2x 2.5-3k hits with the 1.5 lightning bolt.

All in all from those 3 you can do 15.5k – 20k with your tool belts. If everything hits and crits. Also since you get a lot of multi hits from grenade it trigger sigil of rage for quickness.

If you add in jumpshot and blunderbuss they can add another 4+6k for an extra 10k.

The strength of this build is it’s weakness though. It’s all burst and heavily CD dependent. If they don’t kill you with that burst or if they are fighting multiple people they get into a tricky situation.

Once those abilities are on CD hipshot doesn’t do much. So using a projectile reflect, immunity move, or dodging like a pro / CC’ing will shut down the build.

The other issue this build has is you have no CC break or condition removal.

If you see him coming you can toss up 4-5 stacks of confusion. Static discharge counts as an ability so burst engi’s explode to confusion.

Basically, CC – Stack Confusion – dead engi.

I run the same build with PBR in for grenade and while I can smoke someone in a 1v1 if I surprise them it is an easily counter-able build.

I run a similar WvW build. It’s glass-cannon, meaning the engineer can die very easily. I’m guessing he cherry picked his fights for this video, you wouldn’t win that often.

Yes, the damage is as good as it looks — although take note he has Orb buffs and probably other WvW buffs. When our server had 3 orbs I was routinely hitting for 13k Jump Shots and 13k Grenade Barrages.

In any case, WvW is pointless to complain about. Most of the time you’ll die due to being outnumbered in a fight.

In tournament sPvP this spec would melt.

Well in sPvP against a good team you might get 1-2 kills before they focus you to death, without any CC breaks or condition removal to save yourself.

That and spvp is more about objective control than killing power. You’ll have trouble killing any tank spec’d point guard with the burst setup. So your limited to running with the pack and any kind of a focus will kill you.

The thing with the video is he picked all his fights, and was always the initiator. It’s completely different when he gets someone joining in after he burns his cool down abilities or if he gets caught off guard. But that’s typically how all 1v1’s end up.

Higgns.6537:

All his opponents were upscaled to 80 as in this thread is stupid.
Also his build is purely offensive. A *thief*will kill him with 3 crits (Steal, C&D, Backstab).

Heart Seeker Heart Seeker Heart Seeker Heart Seeker Heart Seeker Heart Seeker.

Dunno why people think thieves are so faceroll when all you need is to do is hit them once with an immobilize and unload everything on them in 2 seconds.

Fire a net shot, Doesn’t hit? Drop a Supply crate, if the crates hits them they’re stunned, and then they have to worry about the net turret.

lol this is silly this guy bombs on a bunch of scaled up players and you think its really good?

Mesmer is way more op like this guy

XelNigma.6315:

I dont pvp, but I can only assume this guy has the best of the best gear vs people who just have average gear.

In other games we have a thing called “Pub Stomping”.
Its, usually, a group of good players that know each other join a game where the other team are just random players thats never met each other before.
I’m sure you can guess who wins.

I assume its something like that, only instead of a group of good players, you have one guy that was probably boosted by friends or a guild to be far better geared than the average player would be. Allowing him to take alot more damage and dealing alot more damage.

PvP in this game = EVERYONE auto lvl 80 and you only use PvP gear, which means no gear advantage. There are no buffs on his bar that explain him being boosted beyond a normal player. This is raw DPS build and nothing else. There is no “they’re weaker” or “better gear.” Everyone is on an equal playing field in terms of gear and levels. The only difference is class and build.

Edit: WvW however, which this was, does have gear advantage. Sorry about that, was just being sleepy and not paying attention. He has gear advantage here, but only shows fights where that holds true, never shows a real fight in the vid.

SixSins.7610:

XelNigma.6315:

I dont pvp, but I can only assume this guy has the best of the best gear vs people who just have average gear.

In other games we have a thing called “Pub Stomping”.
Its, usually, a group of good players that know each other join a game where the other team are just random players thats never met each other before.
I’m sure you can guess who wins.

I assume its something like that, only instead of a group of good players, you have one guy that was probably boosted by friends or a guild to be far better geared than the average player would be. Allowing him to take alot more damage and dealing alot more damage.

PvP in this game = EVERYONE auto lvl 80 and you only use PvP gear, which means no gear advantage. There are no buffs on his bar that explain him being boosted beyond a normal player. This is raw DPS build and nothing else. There is no “they’re weaker” or “better gear.” Everyone is on an equal playing field in terms of gear and levels. The only difference is class and build.

clueless guy detected.

you dont get equal gear in wvw like you do in spvp. a guy with best gear in a damage build will almost 1 shot any lvl 1 character joining wvw.

80% of the people he kills in that video are upscaled in levels, dont have level 80 gear, trait options or skill point unlocks.

I think you’ll find most classes can stomp noobs.

This particular video is first of all from the 21st. This build has been nerfed heavily. Secondly, this is WvW. That guy could be low level or something else. The thing about mesmers is that they are able to survive like crazy.

This build has been nerfed heavily

Huh?

Oh sorry, im from the future, you’ll see.

Still, I can see why this is odd to the OP – speaking as someone who started out maining engy and now main mesmer.

The mesmer forums are full of people whining how mesmer is OP and demanding they be nerfed and then you see gimmick builds like engineer burst builds rolling face and nobody bats an eyelid – it’s very puzzling.

When it comes down to it, every class has some gimmick faceroll builds, they all have drawbacks the only people who use them are cookie-cutter-kids looking for some easy gankings to stroke their ego, or to cut and post on youtube as proof of their leet skillz (I killed 20 guys today!). They don’t pull much weight in the real battle when squads start locking horns, keeps start getting assaulted and the siege weapons fire up.

i can do the same with my rifle and a exotic set with a glass canon build, WvW a good gear can destroy almost everything. A thief or even a mesmer fully speced damage can do this too

This video shows a geared out level 80 engineer destroying sub level 80 players while having 3 orbs.
It’s not uncommon for most classes to be able to take on 2-4 players at once under these circumstances.

Engineers have been nerfed in every patch in some way or another, so it is not like we are getting nerfed. This current burst damage build is not that good. Very easy to counter. Once you see the engineer pop any potions, start dodging/ casting any escapes you have. Once the short timer on the burst is gone, we are sitting ducks. If anything engineers need a buff on other skills. This is currently one of the only viable builds i could find that is good all around. Other builds are either very support or rely a ton on your teammates.

And as the guys says, this is WvW. Orbs, level, all that stuff is a factor. Show some full games of him in sPvP then well talk, but who knows how many games it took to get the footage he would show us. Determing if a build is OP based on montages is pure stupidity. If you really want to complain, go back in time during beta. This build has been nerfed many times, and will most likely be nerfed again. Use to be amazing OP, now not so much.