Guild Wars 2

Okay so we have a few different issues going on with this skill (some of them reach out of the skill as well). I think I have come up with a very viable solution.

Turrets now generate a regenerative field (weaker and smaller AoE than the current healing turret). This encourages the Engi to stick near their turrets and to place them spaced out for more utility and effect.

Tool Kit is now a healing skill (no longer utility slot)
-Toolbelt Skill: Coolant Engineer instantly heals. The more turrets out, the higher the healing coefficient.

-Skill 1: Smack, Whack and Thwack all heal turrets (not just smack). Hits 3 targets now instead of 1.
-Skill 2: is now Focus Fire Turrets will focus on whatever target you’re attacking. No cooldown.
-Skill 3: is now Pry Bar. Now hits 3 targets instead of 1. Reduces cooldown of overcharge abilities by 3 seconds per target hit.
-Skill 4: is still Gear Shield. Lasts 3 seconds instead of 2. Also repels enemies that strike you.
-Skill 5: is still Magnet. Cooldown reduced to 20 seconds. Can pull a turret towards your current location.

Trait: Autotool Installation: Turrets are self-repairing (now with slightly faster repair). Additionally, turrets at full health when picked up have their cooldown refreshed.

Trait: Deployable Turrets: Turrets are now ground targeted, cooldowns on Overcharge abilities are reduced by 20%.

For those of you going “WAT?” here’s an explanation of benefits!
1. Turrets are more reasonable in PvP and WvW environments as they can be picked up and moved a lot quicker.
2. Tool Kit now no longer uses up a utility slot (which it shouldn’t because it’s meant to support turrets). It’s also a valid healing skill that fills the slot that most professions have as a “signet heal”.
3. kitteny Tool Kit skills are gone/fixed.
4. You can now heal your turret with Smack without having to wait for it to reset to Smack.

Leave your feedback!

EDIT 1: I’ve implemented the changes suggested by Coglin and Achmed.
EDIT 2: I’ve implemented the changes suggested by Sporadicus.
EDIT 3: More changes after collaborating with Sporadicus.

uhm, is there a another reason with switching slots fpr skill 3-5 beside “i cant get used to the current bindings”?
for prybar, its the most damaging ability in this set. also the confusion is usualy long enough to trigger so i see no real reason to change the cooldown or confusion length at all.

I would prefer to leave throw wrench alone. Traited, it is a spectacular skill.

Although I can see where you are trying to go with it, I would suggest that the only change they make is the #1 skill you suggested.

Cooldown increases. Skills usually ascend in cooldown from 1 to 5. Since Prybar (in my version) now has the longest cooldown of all the toolbelt skills, I put it to 5.

Confusion when used against a player whose not paying attention = powerful.
Confusion when used against a player who knows they are confused = annoying to wait it out.

Increased duration means increased inconvenience. However, if everyone agrees with you (I don’t mind either way) that the skill was fine where it was damage wise I guess I could revert the changes. It just didn’t feel like it was a ‘3’ skill, since it has a lot more uses than something like Magnet.

EDIT: I’ve updated the original post with your suggestions.

makes sense. but honestly if you want to use a wrench and turrets aggainst players, you better hope they playing PvP for the first time

would be cool if elixi infused bombs would heal turrets as well. this way youll become a real point holding machine.

Why? In my experience the turrets work very well for point holding and even caping. The tool belt abilities of turrets are fairly handy as well.

everytime i tried it, people just DPSed my turrets down or which isnt to hard when if its placed near the spot.
so either you got lucky or i jsut plain suck at using turrets

I do not like how Tool Kit is now a healing ability. Med Kit serves it’s purpose and no healing skill (When you press your number 6 skill) in the game does any damage whatsoever, so it wouldn’t fit. If you agree and would just like to see the changes put in to the already present Utility Tool Kit, read below.

Are you sure you want to put in Coolant? We already have a Regeneration Tool Belt skill via Elixir Gun. I also very much enjoy Throw Wrench for some select Burst builds, that doesn’t require swapping kits. Coolant doesn’t fit with the theme of the way Tool Belt skills are setup either. All Tool Belt skills, no matter what Utility slot we throw in, can be used on it’s own. With Coolant, it has zero effect with a non-turret build.

I do agree that Box of Nails needs to be replaced with something, but nothing that -requires- you to take certain Utility skills. As you’re making it, you have made Tool Kit an almost exclusive Turret-only kit.

The 30% reduction to Turret recast would be far too much, as every Utility reducing skill in the game has been streamlined to 20%. How about a 20% recast reduction with a 10% overcharge reduction?

Tool Kit does need a little bit of a change, like it’s overall utility increased. I would like to see auto-attack hit three enemies, Box of Nails taken out, and Gear Shield knock down melee attackers.

achmed.6542:

everytime i tried it, people just DPSed my turrets down or which isnt to hard when if its placed near the spot.
so either you got lucky or i jsut plain suck at using turrets

If they are DPSing your turrets they are not DPSing you. In that time, you should be DPSing them, as will your turrets.

They either attack the turrets or allow the turrets to freely attack and net them, keeping them off of you. Or, they focus on you, allowing your turrets free reign on them.

Aristio.2784:

I do not like how Tool Kit is now a healing ability. Med Kit serves it’s purpose and no healing skill (When you press your number 6 skill) in the game does any damage whatsoever, so it wouldn’t fit. If you agree and would just like to see the changes put in to the already present Utility Tool Kit, read below.

I wasn’t suggesting getting rid of med kit, they have completely different purposes. However, med kits 1-5 are dedicated to assisting other people, and the tool belt skill is dedicated to healing the engineer. In my incarnation of tool kit, the tool kit skill is what’s dedicated to healing others (replacement for healing turret) and the 1-2 skills are dedicated to healing the turret and the engineer. It’s just two sides of a similar coin.

Aristio.2784:

Are you sure you want to put in Coolant? We already have a Regeneration Tool Belt skill via Elixir Gun. I also very much enjoy Throw Wrench for some select Burst builds, that doesn’t require swapping kits. Coolant doesn’t fit with the theme of the way Tool Belt skills are setup either. All Tool Belt skills, no matter what Utility slot we throw in, can be used on it’s own. With Coolant, it has zero effect with a non-turret build.

Turret users don’t usually use Elixir Gun, so we wouldn’t both have access to the tool belt regen anyways. But since we’re on the topic, Throw Wrench as a tool belt skill already accomplishes things handled better by other tool belt skills such as rocket, rifle bullet, etc.

Aristio.2784:

I do agree that Box of Nails needs to be replaced with something, but nothing that -requires- you to take certain Utility skills. As you’re making it, you have made Tool Kit an almost exclusive Turret-only kit.

I’m not 100% sure on this, because ANet has never officially stated it – but Tool Kit was intentionally designed to be specifically for use on turrets, hence the current Smack mechanic. They just formed a defunct skill set around the idea that Engi needed a way to manually heal their turrets TF2 style.

Aristio.2784:

The 30% reduction to Turret recast would be far too much, as every Utility reducing skill in the game has been streamlined to 20%. How about a 20% recast reduction with a 10% overcharge reduction?

If 30% is too drastic, then I could see your idea working as well. My take on the subject was that just because everyone else uses 20% doesn’t mean you have to keep it at 20%, some traits only have a 15% reduction as an example.

Aristio.2784:

Tool Kit does need a little bit of a change, like it’s overall utility increased. I would like to see auto-attack hit three enemies, Box of Nails taken out, and Gear Shield knock down melee attackers.

I’m glad we can agree here!

EDIT: I’ve updated the original post with your suggestions.

Why would you claim Box of Nails needs replaced. That is a AoE control and bleed stack for those who ise condition builds or want control.

Box of nails is the last thing that needs to be removed from the tool kit.

coglin.1496:

Why would you claim Box of Nails needs replaced. That is a AoE control and bleed stack for those who ise condition builds or want control.

Box of nails is the last thing that needs to be removed from the tool kit.

If you are using Tool Kit to support turrets, which is primarily what it’s for – you probably aren’t stacking condition damage, as it doesn’t effect the turrets or any wrench skills OTHER than Box of Nails. Additionally, with all of the Tool Kit skills being melee, there’s no point in applying a cripple. It doesn’t fit with the set, builds or related utility skills – hence it’s removal.

EDIT: Also, no one should be hammering in nails with a wrench. Wrong tool for the job.

In response to LoreChief’s edit, maybe it should be replaced by a Screwdriver Stab to keep the melee theme and keep the bleed effect. :P

ummm was this broken? I wish the magnet would have a bigger range but never had much of an issue with this kit.

Nepocrates.3642:

ummm was this broken? I wish the magnet would have a bigger range but never had much of an issue with this kit.

People (myself included) don’t like that it supports turrets, but the only way to do so is to sacrifice one of your slots for turrets. I just wanted to make it a viable alternative to someone who usually does turrets + rifle which is pretty effective.

LoreChief.8391:

If you are using Tool Kit to support turrets, which is primarily what it’s for – you probably aren’t stacking condition damage, as it doesn’t effect the turrets or any wrench skills OTHER than Box of Nails. Additionally, with all of the Tool Kit skills being melee, there’s no point in applying a cripple. It doesn’t fit with the set, builds or related utility skills – hence it’s removal.

EDIT: Also, no one should be hammering in nails with a wrench. Wrong tool for the job.

First off, your edit is kind of funny. Your trying to use your personal real world ideas to decide what is applicable to a kit in a fantasy game. Secondly, your assumption that tool kit is used primarily for turrets is just that, your assumption.

Also you suggest because the #1 skill is melee that no one needs box of nails. Another incorrect assumption. Sometimes condition focused engineers need a solid physical attack for gates in WvW, gates in PvP such as foefire, and other inanimate objects in PvE that must be destroyed, that condition damage does not effect.

Your incorrectly assuming my post was related to turret builds, and that is not true. Very many P/P or P/S users with condition based builds use tool kits. We use it for control with cripple, because the subsequently also add bleeds, and for pry bar to stack confusion with concussion bomb.

How to fix tool kit:
Make it summon a weak turret or maybe a little robots as one of it’s skills -cough-#2-cough-. That way you don’t “need” to put a turret in the slots to make the tool kit serve it’s purpose.

I’d use it….

i rather have throw wench as skill one >.< almost like ranger throwing axe

In order to make toolkit a healing skill, it would have to have absolutely NO damage or damage boosting skills. Toolkit breaks that requirement outright. If someone gets under the desk of a dev, we MIGHT be able to have them choose this set as a “2nd weapon” swap. Maybe? Please?

I recommend the following changes of the OP’s ideas:

Keep the toolbelt skill as “Throw Wrench”

Slot 1- Smack/Whack/Thwack:
No engineer self healing skill, and only Thwack hitting up to 3 opponents. This brings in line with most other auto-attack third strikes that other classes have.

Slot 2 – Call Turrets’ Target:
This gives the engineer the ability to have all turrets aim and keep their aim at an enemy has has his focus on. This will let you control the attention of the turrets. However, you’ll have to do this for each target. The negative is you might have to refocus several times if you want your net turret to do different things.

Slot 3 – Prybar:
Keep current damage level and confusion ability vs players. I like the reduce overcharge C/D idea.

Slot 4 – Gear Shield:
Good as is. A push away sounds like a good idea since it does absolutely nothing else.

Slot 5 – Magnet:
Let this also affect a targetted turret, which makes it VERY mean for setups. Pull your FT Turret or Thumper Turret and activate their overcharge.

Dont u dare to remove the box of nails
U can do whatever u want with Prybar :P

How about we lower the damage of Prybar and give it the ability to cripple instead of confusion? Will that work?

I’ve also been trying to use tool kit and I think I found a way though i admit it looks stupid at first.

Here is the build:

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/wrench-guy-engineer-7379.html

Basically it relies on power and retaliation for damage.

Sporadicus.1028:

How about we lower the damage of Prybar and give it the ability to cripple instead of confusion? Will that work?

Traited with power wrench, you’re auto attack (toolkit 1) will cripple. Prybar currently gives confusion which is actually decent against certain classes (e.g. thieves).

Alrighty. I take back my idea to change Prybar. I would rather sacrifice Box of Nails with an ability to control your turrets than change Pry Bar right now.

Sporadicus.1028:

In order to make toolkit a healing skill, it would have to have absolutely NO damage or damage boosting skills. Toolkit breaks that requirement outright. If someone gets under the desk of a dev, we MIGHT be able to have them choose this set as a “2nd weapon” swap. Maybe? Please?

I have to disagree here. If any profession would be able to pull off this form of a healing skill, it would be the Engineer. We already do it with the med kit, which centers around pure healing/buffing – so we should be able to have it as a healing skill as well. Again, if anyone’s that innovative – it’s an Engineer.

I recommend the following changes of the OP’s ideas:

Sporadicus.1028:

Keep the toolbelt skill as “Throw Wrench”

Slot 1- Smack/Whack/Thwack:
No engineer self healing skill, and only Thwack hitting up to 3 opponents. This brings in line with most other auto-attack third strikes that other classes have.

If you get rid of the healing factor on both the toolbelt skill and the ‘1’ skill that I proposed, you’re forced to put Tool Kit as a utility skill and will lose out on the turret. It’s really the only way to ensure we get our 3 turrets out AND be able to use wrench. However, I would be for removing the per-hit heal from S/W/T if the toolbelt skill stayed as Coolant, possibly with higher healing coefficient per summoned turret.

Sporadicus.1028:

Slot 2 – Call Turrets’ Target:
This gives the engineer the ability to have all turrets aim and keep their aim at an enemy has has his focus on. This will let you control the attention of the turrets. However, you’ll have to do this for each target. The negative is you might have to refocus several times if you want your net turret to do different things.

I don’t know where my reply went here EDIT: I like this idea, but it needs something else. I would say we move the overcharge cooldown reduction from Prybar to this, and put the skill on a 15 second cooldown. How’s that sound?

Sporadicus.1028:

Slot 5 – Magnet:
Let this also affect a targetted turret, which makes it VERY mean for setups. Pull your FT Turret or Thumper Turret and activate their overcharge.

Thinking simply of Asuran aesthetics, I wouldn’t mind if the magnet pulled US to the turret instead. However, that wouldn’t work for any of the other races, so I’m inclined to still like your idea.

I’ll update the main post with your suggestions.

“Slot 5 – Magnet:
Let this also affect a targetted turret, which makes it VERY mean for setups. Pull your FT Turret or Thumper Turret and activate their overcharge.”

^this

Tool Kit’s damage would never work as a healing type kit because it has too many damaging skills. That’s why I suggest it be a fixed weapon swap for us, if we are willing to lose “Throw Wrench,” that is.

I am wrong in saying that there is no healing skill ability that gives offensive advantage. The stim pack from our Med Kit provides Fury to whoever picks it up.

For Call Turret’s Target, I like the idea of lowering their cooldown that way. That or perhaps giving them a 10% or maybe 25% damage bonus for 4 – 6 seconds. Just enough for 1 rocket shot! If we do the latter, we can then keep Pry Bar having the dual effect of either lowering CD on a turret or giving an enemy Confusion.

If we put it as a weapon swap, it’ll put into question the validity of the other kits remaining as kits. This one also specializes in turrets, and we definitely don’t want the message to be sent that “turrets are an inherent specialty on all engineers, which is why they can swap to the wrench in the first place”.

I don’t know what the general concensus is on turret damage overall, but it might be a bit OP to put in a damage bonus on the skill as well as an overcharge reduction. I know I personally don’t detest my turret damages – just their overall utility.

Maybe, if you guys are okay with the concept – instead of having Coolant as a tool belt skill to generate the same regen field that healing turret would – we just put that regen aura as inate on each turret (doesn’t stack in intensity, same regen ability as the current healing turret). The difference would be a smaller AoE for the regen effect so that it doesn’t cover an OP amount of space when the turrets are spread out. The toolbelt skill can go back to Throw Wrench, except it would also be the healing skill (think med kit: bandage) but with the 2-way damage from the throw it currently has.

If we don’t add a damage bonus or overcharge CD reduction on “Call Turret’s Target,” then we can make it a no CD skill that works in parallel with any other skill (Like Smoke Vent).

How does that sound?

Also, if we fix Tool Kit as a second weapon swap, it won’t really give us a big advantage. We’ll have a permanent melee weapon, but be able to use turrets (which aren’t really that powerful since they don’t scale with your abilities) in all three slots. The abilities I’ve listed seem equal to most other swappable weapons that other classes have. Mind you, I say “seem,” not “are.”

I like the idea of being able to swap freely between wrench and rifle. If that means it happens either by weapon swap or wrench kit, then so be it. But I don’t think that anyone else here, let alone ANet, would bite off on catering to turret users as a default weapon slot (swappable) on Engineers in general.

The preferable situation would be for them to just make a Wrench weapon for us to use, but then no other profession would be able to use it – and thus far we don’t have any profession-specific weapons like that. It would be the shotgun → rifle situation all over again.

I like the idea of removing the cooldown from Focus Fire at the expense of that being all it does. Maybe put the overcharge redux back on Pry Bar.

Edits to main post forthcoming.

Umm… these are extreme buffs to every ability across the board. This would push a tool kit+turrets build so far beyond broken OP it’s ridiculous to even consider. Both the tool kit and turrets need help, but this is not as much a solution or a fix, this is breaking it in the other direction. I would recommend toning it back… a lot.

Conncept.7638:

Umm… these are extreme buffs to every ability across the board. This would push a tool kit+turrets build so far beyond broken OP it’s ridiculous to even consider. Both the tool kit and turrets need help, but this is not as much a solution or a fix, this is breaking it in the other direction. I would recommend toning it back… a lot.

Not that it’s functioning properly, but I’m going to use flamethrower as an example.

1. damage + burn
2. single target nuke (it’s buggy, but it’s intended to be nukish) w/ low CD
3. pushback/control skill
4. burning + damage + combo field
5. AoE blind on low CD

Our suggested changes thus far

1. Heals turrets
2. Only fixes handicapped AI so we can use turrets properly
3. Confusion, and reduces overcharge cooldown
4. 3 second block with pushback (this is par for the course with this kind of skill)
5. Turret-puller

3 of these skills (5, 3, 1) have only been modified to help us manipulate our turrets better, which is arguably a necessity right now. The only change to 3 otherwise was that it hits 3 targets instead of 1 – perhaps a damage redux is required for that, but so be it. 1 hits 3 targets, as it rightfully should anyways. 4 only got a slight buff.

How are these OP exactly?

Well this would leave us with 4 healing skills, and one less utility skill, than any other professions, so which healing skill would you move to utilty/drop alltogether and how would you then make a new utility?

We can have more than 3 healing skills. Anyone who rolls a human already does, as do the Sylvari.

This still poses the question, what will the rest of us do who use the tool kit for its well rounded utility outside of turrets?

It really appears those who favor turrets here are suggesting an absolute revamp of the kit, and not worrying about how your changes will hose the majority of the tool kit users out there now.

LoreChief.8391:

Conncept.7638:

Umm… these are extreme buffs to every ability across the board. This would push a tool kit+turrets build so far beyond broken OP it’s ridiculous to even consider. Both the tool kit and turrets need help, but this is not as much a solution or a fix, this is breaking it in the other direction. I would recommend toning it back… a lot.

Not that it’s functioning properly, but I’m going to use flamethrower as an example.

1. damage + burn
2. single target nuke (it’s buggy, but it’s intended to be nukish) w/ low CD
3. pushback/control skill
4. burning + damage + combo field
5. AoE blind on low CD

Our suggested changes thus far

1. Heals turrets
2. Only fixes handicapped AI so we can use turrets properly
3. Confusion, and reduces overcharge cooldown
4. 3 second block with pushback (this is par for the course with this kind of skill)
5. Turret-puller

3 of these skills (5, 3, 1) have only been modified to help us manipulate our turrets better, which is arguably a necessity right now. The only change to 3 otherwise was that it hits 3 targets instead of 1 – perhaps a damage redux is required for that, but so be it. 1 hits 3 targets, as it rightfully should anyways. 4 only got a slight buff.

How are these OP exactly?

1. Do you see any healing skill in the game that give you heavy damage and doesn’t actually heal you? The answer is no, and arenanet will never make such a skill, because it will encourage the devolution of the game back to the unholy trinity if every class can’t handle it’s own healing.
Furthermore, healing on all three hits to three turrets at a time will essentially make us immune to melee combat, nobody is going to stand a chance meleeing an engineer standing by his turrets. And it will hardly help us against ranged at all, which is a bigger problem than melee in the first place.

2. This shouldn’t even be an ability, the turret AI should just be fixed.

3. Three of the overcharge skills are hard CCs- Net turret, Thumper Turret, Flame Turret. Such CCs have a carefully calculated output to cooldown ratio to prevent excessive CC stacking, an on-command CD reduction that can be further traited to have a reduced CD itself is beyond broken.

4. Probably okay, but also the mirror copy of another engineer skill, seems like if anything this is due for replacement with a new skill.

5. Possibly okay, depending on errata, but if this just works that simply, I see a whole lot of potential for abuse.

Conncept.7638:

1. Do you see any healing skill in the game that give you heavy damage and doesn’t actually heal you? The answer is no, and arenanet will never make such a skill, because it will encourage the devolution of the game back to the unholy trinity if every class can’t handle it’s own healing.
Furthermore, healing on all three hits to three turrets at a time will essentially make us immune to melee combat, nobody is going to stand a chance meleeing an engineer standing by his turrets. And it will hardly help us against ranged at all, which is a bigger problem than melee in the first place.

Med kit doesn’t actually heal you unless you use the bandage skill. To use your logic, “have you seen any other healing skill in the game that requires you to put the healing on the ground, and then walk into it to collect the healing? And then requires you to use a toolbelt skill to get the actual heal?” Additionally, the only changes in damage to tool kit have been making prybar and S/W/T able to hit 3 enemies at once, which is actually normal.

In regards to healing turrets, here’s the thing. Right now, the only one that heals the turret is Smack. If you hit a turret with Smack, it won’t turn into Whack or Thwack. This means every hit heals the turret as it is, BUT it also means that we lose fluidity of motion. It actually takes longer to do 3 smacks than it does to do a S/W/T. EVEN MORE SO – even with Power Wrench the healing is pretty kitten kitteny. If a player can’t outdamage the healing you’re doing to a turret, than you need to reroll. Just tested it myself to verify, and per smack hit (traited) I literally only recover about 7% of a thumper turrets HP per hit. So unless we’re already immune to melee combat as we are, this will not be what makes us immune.

My last point on this subject, is that it’s a weapon kit. If you have one on your utility bar right now in the first place, you’re kittened. It overlays your weapon, robs you of stats – provides a tool belt skill (which by the way the tool belt skill ALSO emphasizes turret use) and putting it as a healing skill (which you can do because you DO GET HEALED, with tool belt skill just like Med Kit) only makes up for the fact that having wrench and 2 turrets as your utility skills is jacked up in the first place.

Conncept.7638:

2. This shouldn’t even be an ability, the turret AI should just be fixed.

This can also be argued. Turrets aren’t mesmer clones, and shouldn’t be forced to attack the same target we’re attacking. We should be telling the turrets what we want them to attack. If I want to Focus Fire at a different enemy than the one I’m currently fighting, I should be able to do that.

Conncept.7638:

3. Three of the overcharge skills are hard CCs- Net turret, Thumper Turret, Flame Turret. Such CCs have a carefully calculated output to cooldown ratio to prevent excessive CC stacking, an on-command CD reduction that can be further traited to have a reduced CD itself is beyond broken.

You’ve got a point here. All of these hard CC overcharges have a 30 second cooldown currently. If you use my version of Pry Bar every time it’s up, that’s 18 seconds removed from the cooldown and that is pretty OP. I agree then that the cooldown reduction should go away from this skill.

Conncept.7638:

4. Probably okay, but also the mirror copy of another engineer skill, seems like if anything this is due for replacement with a new skill.

I could create new skills all day to be honest, but since we wouldn’t be the only profession to have a duplicate skill on another modular-skill bar I didn’t think to leave it. (As an example, almost all of the skills on the elementalists Conjured Weapons come from other parts of the elementalist, some from other professions in general).

Conncept.7638:

5. Possibly okay, depending on errata, but if this just works that simply, I see a whole lot of potential for abuse.

Can you explain what you mean by potential for abuse of this skill? Turrets aren’t mobile, and when you lay Thumper down, you’re merely hoping the enemy will either catch it’s aggro, or that the enemies will at least fight near it so it can do something. Being able to pull it towards you means you are pretty much guaranteed to see some use out of it.

coglin.1496:

This still poses the question, what will the rest of us do who use the tool kit for its well rounded utility outside of turrets?

It really appears those who favor turrets here are suggesting an absolute revamp of the kit, and not worrying about how your changes will hose the majority of the tool kit users out there now.

Tool Kit (due to ‘1’ and tool belt skill favoring turrets – is now a turret centric weapon). A new weapon kit has been created for the Engineers that still want to melee without using the turret centric weapon: Drill Kit

Without spending too much time coming up with skills at this point, it’ll have AoE spinkicks, concussive ground faults, oil slicks for cripples/knockdowns, shoot the drill out via extension pole to pull enemies back to you with bleed damage, and probably some other nifty stuff. Its physically held like a Chain Saw, except with a long drill bit (possibly vicious looking drill bit with spikes or some kitten to match the nature of the other weapon kits like FT).

In my opinion only two things need fixing for tool kit:

1. Pry Bar. This should also stun the opponent for 1 or 2 seconds. Engineers lack stuns.
2. Magnet. This should have double the range and/or less casting time. As it is it’s nigh useless except if the opponent is right next to you and standing still.

I love Tool Kit, and use it all the time, but #3 and #5 need work. Box of Nails coupled with Kit Refinement is seriously awesome for kiting.

Casting time… that’s the one thing on this tool kit that I really don’t like.

With reduced casting time the melee whack-smaks are actually quite hard.

A pull should be instant, else it only works if the opponent isn’t looking, and than you might as well grenade him…
The range should be practical too, yes.

Same for the nails: for that cast time I expect something stronger, like an immobilize first perhaps, basically a glue shot, which happens to go faster.

But take my opnion with big grain of salt, I’m really not an experienced engineer (yet… I hope to add).

Same for the nails: for that cast time I expect something stronger, like an immobilize first perhaps, basically a glue shot, which happens to go faster.

The cool thing about Kit Refinement is the the Box of Nails it generates for Tool Kit is instantly on the ground, and then you can stagger another Box of Nails.

Yep, that’s a good one indeed.
most of those free casts upon equipping the kit are helpfull in small ways, especially because you can throw the actual skill on top of that indeed.

But you touch upon the very thing: it’s cool from the trait because it’s instant…

Only thing from that trait that disapoints me is the fact that the explosion from equipping med kit doesn’t knock back like theoriginal skill does.
But that’s discussion for another thread of course, so this aside.

LoreChief.8391:

In regards to healing turrets, here’s the thing. Right now, the only one that heals the turret is Smack. If you hit a turret with Smack, it won’t turn into Whack or Thwack. This means every hit heals the turret as it is, BUT it also means that we lose fluidity of motion. It actually takes longer to do 3 smacks than it does to do a S/W/T. EVEN MORE SO – even with Power Wrench the healing is pretty kitten kitteny. If a player can’t outdamage the healing you’re doing to a turret, than you need to reroll. Just tested it myself to verify, and per smack hit (traited) I literally only recover about 7% of a thumper turrets HP per hit. So unless we’re already immune to melee combat as we are, this will not be what makes us immune.

My last point on this subject, is that it’s a weapon kit. If you have one on your utility bar right now in the first place, you’re kittened. It overlays your weapon, robs you of stats – provides a tool belt skill (which by the way the tool belt skill ALSO emphasizes turret use) and putting it as a healing skill (which you can do because you DO GET HEALED, with tool belt skill just like Med Kit) only makes up for the fact that having wrench and 2 turrets as your utility skills is jacked up in the first place.

Can you explain what you mean by potential for abuse of this skill? Turrets aren’t mobile, and when you lay Thumper down, you’re merely hoping the enemy will either catch it’s aggro, or that the enemies will at least fight near it so it can do something. Being able to pull it towards you means you are pretty much guaranteed to see some use out of it.

The med kit heals everyone, last I checked, everyone includes you, and it still doesn’t deal damage either way. And what are you talking about? Read your own post, it states under the #1 skill that each hit now hits three enemies:

LoreChief.8391:

-Skill 1: Smack, Whack and Thwack all heal turrets (not just smack). Hits 3 targets now instead of 1.

Which I admit, now that I think about it, it already did. Sorry, I got pretty far with the engineer in beta, but I haven’t really leveled one up since release. Either way, we really need to avoid becoming the type of anti-fun bunker class that the guardian is starting to become in PvP. I have seriously seen one keep a point neutralized against a five-team for three minutes without support. Bunkering should be a legitimate strategy, but not such a pithy or dominant one, and the reason turrets are in their current state is because, of any group of skills, they have the most potential to become the ultimate bunker tool.

And concerning the potential for abuse, i’m not sure. But depending on the CD of this pull skill, casting time, range, and who know what other factors, you could potentially have all the benefits of turrets, without the primary drawback- the immobility. Honestly I can’t find combos for abuse when we are theorycrafting, I would need more tactile testing than that. But the immoblity is there to be a conscious drawback, weighed and measured as a player makes build decisions in his playstyle.

I like the current way OP’s got it after fixing it with suggestions. I would run a turret build all the kitten time if it were like this.

My ONE gripe is that I really like Box of Nails as it is. Magnet however is terrible no matter what you do with it (aside from making it multi-target). Therefore, I suggest replacing Magnet with Focus Fire.

But this thread has me salivating.

I don’t like OP idea

Mainly because I use ToolKit in a Toolbelts Build.

I need the wrench throw in my tool belts, and I use a lot of toolkit attacks when I get in melee. (happens often with a rifle)

Don’t change my pry bar! Hitting for 3.5k with confusion damage going on after is wonderful. I love using it, and I don’t see many people use it.

I would agree that Nails need some love. Some people said they need it for conditons, so I’m asking for a buff more then a change.

Ether make the castime faster or something.

Same thing with Magnetic pull, I would love to use this skill more. But with the short range and the casttime taking forever, I can’t rarely use it.

Gear Shield is wonderful, I love it. But I do agree it’s weird that it’s only effect is blocking for 2 seconde. Most other skill have an added boon or warrior hold for 3 second. Still a good skill!

Don’t change my toolkit too much! :P I need my burst dps!

I’d be happy if toolkit / all kits got some more base stats or stat contribution.

The 3rd hit on the #1 skill made the same speed and the first 2.

The cast on box of nails reduced by .5 to 1s

and magnet replaced with a copy of scorpion wire. better range 900 vs 600, does 1.5-2k damage and has a faster cast time 1s vs 2s? (might be off it might just feel faster))

Rename it grappling hook or rocket winch.

I think the idea is pretty creative, but I personally don’t want my toolkit to replace my medkit slot! As a healing skill it would nerf the utility of other builds, and encourage using the new toolkit as a bunker build. If it was a healing skill, we’d be pigeon-holed into bunkering with turrets, even if we didn’t want to use them. I don’t want to not be able to use medkit, AND have my self-heal be less effective just because I don’t want to use turrets.

But there’s a solution, and it’s easier than you think. Your argument is that, if it’s a utility skill, then you won’t be able to use more than 2 turrets. The solution to this is to simply combine turret skills!

Turret Kit! The toolbelt skill should be Focus Fire, in some form (Like the mesmer shatter skills). Number 1-3 should be Drop Rifle, Flame, and Thumper turrets. 4 can be a screwdriver or something and be a channeled turret heal. 5 can be something interesting, like a defensive stun or a blind or a turret pull or anything; be creative!

This way, net turret and rocket turret can still be their own skills (and rightfully so), so engineers can still devote all utility skills and specialize fully into turrets if they want to.

This way, toolkit-using engineers can have their options open to them, and turret engineers can still specialize AND keep an effective heal.

“Trait: Autotool Installation: Turrets are self-repairing (now with slightly faster repair). Additionally, turrets at full health when picked up have their cooldown refreshed.”

Man… running healing turret would be awesome! Infinite 5K heals for me!!!

LoreChief.8391:

-Skill 1: Smack, Whack and Thwack all heal turrets (not just smack). Hits 3 targets now instead of 1.

Not too bad of an idea but that would be crossing the realm to OP I think.

LoreChief.8391:

-Skill 2: is now Focus Fire Turrets will focus on whatever target you’re attacking. No cooldown.

A horrible……horrible idea in my opinion. This is one of the best abilities with the kit. Why would you want to take a AoR cripple and bleed away?

LoreChief.8391:

-Skill 3: is now Pry Bar. Now hits 3 targets instead of 1. Reduces cooldown of overcharge abilities by 3 seconds per target hit.

Reasonable. It should have the same AoE as any melee weapon. The confusion is great for condition builds.

LoreChief.8391:

-Skill 4: is still Gear Shield. Lasts 3 seconds instead of 2. Also repels enemies that strike you.

Yeah, it needs something to be at such a short duration. Several other comparable shield skills have 3s duration and a secondary feature.

LoreChief.8391:

-Skill 5: is still Magnet. Cooldown reduced to 20 seconds. Can pull a turret towards your current location.

Reduced cool down perhaps. The whole pull a turret thing seems kind of pointless to me though.

Kryptorchid

Man… running healing turret would be awesome! Infinite 5K heals for me!!!

Ah, good point; the healing turret would need to be exempt from this trait! Or, it could have an internal cooldown of say 20 seconds; so you can’t just place turret, pick up, place turret. This way it couldn’t just be used once every 20 seconds, people would still be compelled to lay down their turrets for at least a decent period of time, and they would have the added benefit of a double-heal for themselves (like how the mesmer gets a triple heal).

mischwoof

Turret Kit! The toolbelt skill should be Focus Fire, in some form

I like this idea. It could be something as simple as a 5 second cooldown skill called focus fire, allowing ‘throw wrench’ to find its way onto the toolkit bar. However, I’m not sure how I feel about a turret summoning kit.. if you switch out of the kit, you would (and should) probably end up de-summoning your turrets. If you didn’t, then everyone would have turret kit out.

coglin

A horrible……horrible idea in my opinion. This is one of the best abilities with the kit. Why would you want to take a AoR cripple and bleed away?

It’s not a kiting kit, AoE cripple doesn’t do a whole lot for it. Bleeding is fine, but thats not something that could be covered in some other form. The functionality of box-of-nails would still be available during the kit refinement usage anyways~