I want to use Turrets, am I stupid?

I want to use Turrets, am I stupid?

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Posted by: Coleslaw.3521

Coleslaw.3521

A lot of people are saying that Turrets are really bad to the point of being useless (At least, currently) and I’m beginning to worry if it really is like that despite the recent buff to them. I can’t really compare to other classes as I have been playing Engineer exclusively since I bought the game. So, am I being dumb for continuing to go with Turrets in my build?

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Posted by: Boss.3876

Boss.3876

Use whatever you think is fun.

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Posted by: SilverWF.4789

SilverWF.4789

Turrets are really bad to the point of being useless

Indeed. Engineer nearly useless without turrets but with turrets – he is useless two times more…

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Posted by: Coleslaw.3521

Coleslaw.3521

Use whatever you think is fun.

I do have a lot of fun with the Engineer class, no doubt, especially with Turrets. I am merely asking the technical side of it. Turrets’ viability in end-game aspects (WvW, High-Level Fractals, etc.) because it’ll be no fun if I’m stuck here in the middle doing the same thing over and over again, while everyone else is off to end-game adventures.

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Posted by: Brinson.7289

Brinson.7289

Choosing turrets is kind of like not choosing a utility at all.
In PvE most mobs will go straight for the turret and break it.
In WvW the small battles are very mobile so your turret will get left behind. In big battles it will die after 1 shot due to many AoEs.
In PvP you can strategically place the turret in an out of the way ledge and get good damage off the rocket turret. All other turrets fail in comparison to RocketTurret.

Yesterday I was playing PvP and came across a “Turret Engineer”. It dropped all its normal turrets on one of the points and I just sat there and laughed the saddest laugh you would have ever heard. I honestly felt bad for the person.
So I walked into the middle of the 3 turrets and the Engi dropped supply crate on me. Now I’m sitting there in the middle of 6+ turrets along with the Engi hitting me…..I just stood there in one place dropping bombs. 5 bombs later [less than 3 seconds] all the turrets were gone. A few more seconds and the Engi was dead.

There is a trait that makes the toolkit’s auto attack chain heal turrets but I’m not sure how significant that heal is. There is also a trait that makes turrets take 30% less damage and another that makes them heal over time. If you take all these traits; using turrets might be a viable niche BUT you still have the problem of them not being able to move. They are more useful when you are farming a dense area of enemies.

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Posted by: Light.6095

Light.6095

Depends, if you’re just questing and mucking about then using turrets is a-ok, provided you enjoy it. Personally, I didn’t like the fact that I had to move them all the time. In WvW and dungeons they die nearly instantly to random aoe damage, so it’s not even a distraction for your enemies. I can’t comment on PvP as I’m not any good at it.
With that said, you can give it a spin. If you can make it work – great, and post your results if you do. If you can’t, well that really answers your own question :P

(edited by Light.6095)

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Posted by: Kardiamond.6952

Kardiamond.6952

Coleslaw → Depend what you are doing.

In PvE leveling turret are useful. They tag mobs, some turret can tank a bit, and add a passive damage.

In Dungeon, they are a bit lacking because they get destroyed really fast.

In WvW/sPvP, they are static and have a too long cooldown. They also doesn’t hit hard, even with the buff. They can’t handle AoE ether.

So yeah, I sometime use turret for fun. Missil turret is the most efficient since it has a stun.

So if you want to have fun, use them. But beware that you are gimping yourself.

Rotthen (Necro) / Zhyx (Engineer) /Inglorious Beasterd (Ranger)
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]

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Posted by: masterdesh.8943

masterdesh.8943

Wanting to use turrets is not stupid. Back in the day when they showed us the video of an engi playing with some turrets it looked bad kitten and super fun. Unfortunately thats not quite what anet sold us in reality engis have to sit in the back and spam grenades and pray nothing hits us. Sorry. Hopefully Anet will realize one day that we are stuck in not very supportive limbo and will beef things up but until then play with kits.

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Posted by: Varqov.6984

Varqov.6984

I agree with playing whatever you want.

But, personally I will never use them because I jump around all the time and never stay stationary. In most instances, staying in one place too long is not a good idea to me. Shield skills make it possible, but fights don’t last long, then I am off to the next objective.

Unless you want to hold a point indefinitely, I don’t see the use.

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Posted by: Mad Rasputin.7809

Mad Rasputin.7809

I used them a lot soloing PVE while leveling up. But at higher levels, they just get destroyed way too quickly. Like, 1 shotted all the time. So they became totally worthless.

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

This may sound ignorant but you’re probably not using your turrets right.

You can use turrets in many different ways. They are not meant to be just dropped in a single place.

- Damage/Healing
- Blast Finishers
- Distraction/Support

I use occasionally add Healing, Net, or Rifle Turret on my utility skills. I use 2 turrets occasionally on tPvP games and not be a liability to my team.

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Posted by: Nautix.6385

Nautix.6385

Turrets are awesome for a couple of things:

- #1 use is for farming bags or mats at lower level areas
(just deploy turrets and run around killing other stuff while your turrets clear an area, then come back, loot & repeat)

- sPvP holding a point
(if you spread them out, some players go out of their way to kill them first or just give up trying to take the point entirely, it’s more of a psychological thing and won’t fool anyone who is experienced really)

Otherwise, turrets are fairly useless even while leveling. At lower levels they help but 60+ you don’t want to ever look at them again unless you are using them to do the #1 reason I said above.

This is only for damage turrets.

Healing & net turrets are awesome! Net especially if coupled with the rifle.

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Posted by: NeuroMuse.1763

NeuroMuse.1763

They can do “OK” in PvE but you’re often moving fast in pve especially in dungeons things die quick and you’re already to far from the turrets for them to be useful. In spvp/wvw they’re “almost” useless as they will die in half a second even if you’re built for extra defenses on them. Best benefit you’ll get in those situations is using healing turret and exploding it or doing a blast finisher when it pulses for a small AoE heal for people nearby.

With that said supply crate can still be useful in key situations when the enemy is focused on your or another person and it’s been dropped after the engagement begins.

(edited by NeuroMuse.1763)

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Posted by: BrimstoneAshe.5043

BrimstoneAshe.5043

Use the net turret and thumper turret occasionally in WvW. But they are very specific circumstances. Net turret for when we are taking a tower. I watch the corners of the tower for defenders setting up to make their hopeful dash inside. It’s not going to stop them outright. It’s just another layer of immobilize I use because you will need a couple to snag and kill the defender before they get inside.

I use the thumper when I’m defending siege. Again, it’s another layer that I use in conjunction with my bomb kit. Works quite well. Our side had 3 cats setup while we were hitting Durios and the defenders of the keep decided to make a rush for them, I stood inside the cats and just started dropping bombs. In the end, the cats had plenty of health left and the ground was covered in loot bags for me to pick up haha.

Asuran Engineer – Norn Ranger
[KAOS] of Anvil Rock

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Posted by: Kardiamond.6952

Kardiamond.6952

This may sound ignorant but you’re probably not using your turrets right.

You can use turrets in many different ways. They are not meant to be just dropped in a single place.

- Damage/Healing
- Blast Finishers
- Distraction/Support

I use occasionally add Healing, Net, or Rifle Turret on my utility skills. I use 2 turrets occasionally on tPvP games and not be a liability to my team.

By 2 turret do you mean healing turrets and an utility?

Because I wouldn’t want to use 2 turret in utility slot. If I do that, I’m ether stuck with no CC breaker/Defensive utility, or I’m stuck with only 1 weapon and no kits.

I need a least one kit, and one CC breaker in tpvp. Doesn’t leave much place for a turret.

Like Necro summon, one of our turret should have a CC breaker.

And I still think Turret should have been a kit.

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Posted by: jsein.8641

jsein.8641

Personally, I prefer not using turrets. I think it’s very beneficial to get used to fighting without them. Get good at dodging CC and moving around a lot. Practice quickly swaping between kits, memorizing which key each ability is bound to and knowing when to use them.

Mobility>Turrents.

I use 3 kits, Toolkit, Bombs and Flamethrower. Tool kit for close up, Bombs for Bombs! You can decimate with AOE and even kite with them…and the flamethrower for Air Blast, Smoke vent and Flameblast, provides good CC and Flameblast will get you an advantage with initial dmg. I play very aggressively so I close in on most targets.

P/P and focus on Power and Precision. Don’t worry about Condition dmg. P/P abilities are still strong.

For healing I use Med Kit, F1…You won’t need big heals due to low HPs so don’t be afraid to heal at 60-70%, it recharges fast and if you’re being mobile you won’t need to use it much. Med kit is also good for mobility on the battlefield with swiftness and curing conditions…or just traveling and exploring.

You won’t be able to take a ton of damage so, again, it’s really important to get good at moving, strafing and dodging.

Most importantly, have fun…I find the above playstyle fun but play whatever you enjoy. Play around with different builds and see what works for you.

yeah…so that’s why I don’t bother with turrets.

(edited by jsein.8641)

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Posted by: Amos.8760

Amos.8760

Choosing turrets is kind of like not choosing a utility at all.
In PvE most mobs will go straight for the turret and break it.
In WvW the small battles are very mobile so your turret will get left behind. In big battles it will die after 1 shot due to many AoEs.
In PvP you can strategically place the turret in an out of the way ledge and get good damage off the rocket turret. All other turrets fail in comparison to RocketTurret.

Yesterday I was playing PvP and came across a “Turret Engineer”. It dropped all its normal turrets on one of the points and I just sat there and laughed the saddest laugh you would have ever heard. I honestly felt bad for the person.
So I walked into the middle of the 3 turrets and the Engi dropped supply crate on me. Now I’m sitting there in the middle of 6+ turrets along with the Engi hitting me…..I just stood there in one place dropping bombs. 5 bombs later [less than 3 seconds] all the turrets were gone. A few more seconds and the Engi was dead.

There is a trait that makes the toolkit’s auto attack chain heal turrets but I’m not sure how significant that heal is. There is also a trait that makes turrets take 30% less damage and another that makes them heal over time. If you take all these traits; using turrets might be a viable niche BUT you still have the problem of them not being able to move. They are more useful when you are farming a dense area of enemies.

Ah hahaha – I think I ran in to this guy too! I don’t normally PvP, but I dropped in to sPvP the other day, and this Asura was on a control point. I run over (just me vs. him), and see he’s an engineer, so I get ready for an interesting fight. He proceeds to drop three turrets, plus his Supply Crate. I didn’t even notice the Supply Crate stun because I was laughing. I didn’t even target the turrets. Between my Jump Shot, Wrench Throw, Incendiary Ammo (Static Discharge), I had accidentally killed all his turrets. There may have been one Thumper Turret clinging to life. Poor guy. After he was down, I gave a helpful and constructive critique of his build by saying “lol turrets”.

My turret is so much better at this game than I am.

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Posted by: Grackleflint.4956

Grackleflint.4956

I’ve enjoyed using them in PvE, WvW, and sPvP. However, a build that employs 2 or more turrets is VERY restrictive. You have to consider positioning and really know your strengths and weaknesses. Some points in WvW and sPvP have layouts that favor turret placement, and those are the ones I stick to when I’m playing a turret build.

They are flat out useless in Dungeons and Fractals because of A) the speed at which you will move through trash mobs (non boss enemies), and B ) the prevalence of area damage.

If you like to plunk down turrets during events, defending a point, or while grinding levels or dailies, then you will find them very useful. My current favorites are Flame and Rocket, with Thumper a close third. They all take practice to use, and the mastery of them has a rewarding feeling. Just understand that you are generally weakening your build with every turret you slot.

(edited by Grackleflint.4956)

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Posted by: Varqov.6984

Varqov.6984

I agree with a lot of you here that turrets are a weak way to use a utility slot, especially when you have multiple turrets drop all at once. My question is: if turrets are a weak way to use a utility slot, what is a strong way to use a utility slot?

Right now I am leveling PvE with elixirs and elixir gun as a kit for the extra heal and the acid bomb when mobs get too close.

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

It’s useless in pvp most pets are right now. PVE however they work well enough (not enough damage imo and not quite what I had in mind when I first learned about them) In that I thought they’d be bots like in TLII and I thought they’d be machine gun not a rifle, and I thought that the FT version would go off more often, and I thought they’d have a 90% immunity to AOE damage so that they’d actually survive a swing by a Ettin or a Ele’s fire AOE but I guess they like pets and those who spec into them to be as dumb as the AI of level 1 mobs and just as weak.

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

This may sound ignorant but you’re probably not using your turrets right.

You can use turrets in many different ways. They are not meant to be just dropped in a single place.

- Damage/Healing
- Blast Finishers
- Distraction/Support

I use occasionally add Healing, Net, or Rifle Turret on my utility skills. I use 2 turrets occasionally on tPvP games and not be a liability to my team.

Sure, you can utilize turrets in interesting, unexpected ways with their blast finishers and perhaps for certain overcharges. But you can’t use them the way turrets are SUPPOSED to work, as area denial. They simply don’t function for that, no matter how you place them. Area denial is the reason many people want to use turrets, in any game, but the turrets of Guild Wars 2 are the greatest disappointment the game has to offer in that regard.

The class is always greener on the other side.

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Posted by: Amos.8760

Amos.8760

I agree with a lot of you here that turrets are a weak way to use a utility slot, especially when you have multiple turrets drop all at once. My question is: if turrets are a weak way to use a utility slot, what is a strong way to use a utility slot?

Right now I am leveling PvE with elixirs and elixir gun as a kit for the extra heal and the acid bomb when mobs get too close.

I run 1-5 Rifle, 6 Healing Turret, 7 Flamethrower, 8 Toolkit, 9 Elixir R, 10 Supply Crate.

My turret is so much better at this game than I am.

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Posted by: Brinson.7289

Brinson.7289

I agree with a lot of you here that turrets are a weak way to use a utility slot, especially when you have multiple turrets drop all at once. My question is: if turrets are a weak way to use a utility slot, what is a strong way to use a utility slot?

Right now I am leveling PvE with elixirs and elixir gun as a kit for the extra heal and the acid bomb when mobs get too close.

For PvE; just use whatever helps you kill faster or survive longer.
Turrets sometimes make fights longer by shooting mobs standing nearby. Sometimes I’ll fight two mobs and once one dies; the turret will shoot a non aggro’d mob….[thanks for helping Mr Turret -_-]

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Posted by: Afoxi.6854

Afoxi.6854

IMHO, turret CD needs to be changed to 20-30s depending on the turrets, and stats adjusted to compensate for improved CD.

Turrets also need to draw far less aggro and take FAR reduced damage when not the main target of an attack.

And then the Rifle Turret needs to be less lame looking. This is just asking for too much, but getting the Rifle Turret to use a skill similar to a thief’s “unload” but with far weaker damage and half the shots per burst would be awesome.

Aeiterealle – Asura Mesmer.
Antherealle – Asura Engineer.
Trucy Millers – Human Warrior.

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Posted by: Criselli.7462

Criselli.7462

Remember you can pick up turrets to reduce their CD by 25%. They’re still a lengthy CD though aside from healing turret.

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Posted by: bromi.7809

bromi.7809

All except healing one are useless.

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Posted by: Grackleflint.4956

Grackleflint.4956

Remember you can pick up turrets to reduce their CD by 25%. They’re still a lengthy CD though aside from healing turret.

I appreciate this feature, but CDs on turrets need to be reduced across the board.

When I play a turret build in sPvP I don’t have time to run around collecting them. Sometimes I’ve placed my rocket turret in a very hard to reach spot. So when I move on, I just detonate them all and I’m forced to trigger the entire cooldown on each one.

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Posted by: AuRiley.5287

AuRiley.5287

The damage provided by turrets is very minimal, but like someone mentioned here they’re great for comboing off of fields. There’s another thread that asked about the so-called “4-button combo” with the healing kit, and while I wouldn’t recommend stacking four turrets in your utility slots, It might be beneficial to use the utility from the Net Turret, and then drop a healing turret on top of it and detonate both for a double Area-Healing. Elixir U is especially good for combing Area-Stealth, Area-Chaos Armor, and Area Retaliation. You then have two slots for kits or elixirs. The flame, thumper, rifle, and rocket turrets are much too fragile and deal little damage that they’re really not worth putting down beyond drawing aggro away from the engineer.

I’ve mentioned previously how nice turrets would be if they put out boons for allies (Retaliation, Stability, Might, etc.) or conditions on enemies (Confusion, Chilled, Blindness, etc.) instead of mediocre damage that amounts to nothing when all is said and done. Then the turrets would actually be threatening and targets of interest. ’Course they would need more health so they can maybe out put more than one round of boons/conditions.

Aldonargo – Lvl.80 Asura Engineer [Anvil Rock]

(edited by AuRiley.5287)

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Posted by: rizzo.1079

rizzo.1079

I run with healing turret as my main heal. Otherwise, sometimes I’ll drop a rocket turret for Teq since I have to be a little close for comfort to hit him with my FT.

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Posted by: Grackleflint.4956

Grackleflint.4956

I run with healing turret as my main heal. Otherwise, sometimes I’ll drop a rocket turret for Teq since I have to be a little close for comfort to hit him with my FT.

The great thing about Healing Turret is that it’s an instant self heal. There is no way to interrupt it. Just make sure you’re not poisoned when you drop it. You can use it with a melee attacker glued to you, then immediately detonate it for extra healing and about 1K damage on your attacker.

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

This may sound ignorant but you’re probably not using your turrets right.

You can use turrets in many different ways. They are not meant to be just dropped in a single place.

- Damage/Healing
- Blast Finishers
- Distraction/Support

I use occasionally add Healing, Net, or Rifle Turret on my utility skills. I use 2 turrets occasionally on tPvP games and not be a liability to my team.

Sure, you can utilize turrets in interesting, unexpected ways with their blast finishers and perhaps for certain overcharges. But you can’t use them the way turrets are SUPPOSED to work, as area denial. They simply don’t function for that, no matter how you place them. Area denial is the reason many people want to use turrets, in any game, but the turrets of Guild Wars 2 are the greatest disappointment the game has to offer in that regard.

I usually run with Healing Turret + Net/Rifle Turret. Sometimes I go with all 3 when I play with combo fields and blast finishers.

All except healing one are useless.

Could use a little more elaboration.

I run with healing turret as my main heal. Otherwise, sometimes I’ll drop a rocket turret for Teq since I have to be a little close for comfort to hit him with my FT.

I always thought Turrets don’t attack dragons? I never saw mine at least.

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Posted by: Grenix.1576

Grenix.1576

I dont use turrets much (only the ones from supply crate elite skill)
They can be pretty cool in some situations, like standing on 1 spot and grinding.
You can pimp them with auto repair, dmg, range etc. Altough i have never tried that.

I did some Lyssa grinding, after the event end the undead just keep comming. Placing some flame, rocket and rifle turret is fun.

Flame turrets can make smokescreens and even give area invisibilty if im not mistaken.
Cant say its completly useless because i havnt expiermented much with it YET
But for sure its easier grabbing one or two diffrent kits to blow up and annoy your enemies with easy swapable CC skills.

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Posted by: bromi.7809

bromi.7809

Could use a little more elaboration.

Healing turret is fastest and decent heal and nice combo/mist effect. That’s fine.

Others:
U want net turret for control? Take wrench, u get shield + confusion + 2 control skills. Can be traited for 3 control skills.
U want flame turret for flame? Take bomb kit, u get many controls adding to same flame on button 2.
U want rocket/rifle for damage? Take whatever, it will outstand them. The only use for rifle is of course static discharge spam, which is obviously contradicts its use like turret.
U want thumper? Bomb kit, again. Better traited, same effect.

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

Could use a little more elaboration.

Healing turret is fastest and decent heal and nice combo/mist effect. That’s fine.

Others:
U want net turret for control? Take wrench, u get shield + confusion + 2 control skills. Can be traited for 3 control skills.
U want flame turret for flame? Take bomb kit, u get many controls adding to same flame on button 2.
U want rocket/rifle for damage? Take whatever, it will outstand them. The only use for rifle is of course static discharge spam, which is obviously contradicts its use like turret.
U want thumper? Bomb kit, again. Better traited, same effect.

As I’ve said earlier, you’ll definitely find turrets useless if you only use them for the sole purpose of dropping them in the ground. Try using them with other skills and utilities so make synergies.

(edited by Kyon.9735)

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Posted by: Xplosiv.1503

Xplosiv.1503

To the main question: Depends where you’d like to use them.

In pve – Sure, they are alot of fun, place them behind you, aggro mobs, and you get an extra burst, very easy to farm, and sometimes serve as a little tank.

In pvp – Don’t even try it. Engineer with turret build is useless, because you pop your turrets, and they get blown away by Aoe in about 2 seconds, and you are left with 3 20-60 sec cooldown slots. Not mentioning they got no Ai and often block themselves if you position them badly.

I saw a turret engineer once, easiest 1vs1 in the game, he popped turrets, i used 3 bombs, and autoattacked him till he died.

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

I run a condi turret build a lot (healing, rifle, rocket, flame) whenever my turrets go KABOOM it launches everyone near them, so I tend to stand close to my rifle turret while its down because its my scape goat, I get charged by a 100blade warrior (or thief) I will blow that thing to the high heavens an throw them on their kitten

I normally play as a “back point assaulter” aka I go and be really mean to the enemy natural. I haven’t had even the slightest issue when I can deploy my turret in a fight, even for a small amount of time.

However, if I 1) can’t deploy my turrets (moving between encounter), 2) go against a super large group of people (2+ mesmers, MM necros, SW guardians etc) I have issues because the turrets aren’t shooting at who they need to be, or 3) move away from my turrets (without pickin them up) I’m fairly gimp, but if I can plant my feet somewhere my god can I cause some devastation especially with buffed supply drop.

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Posted by: Aristio.2784

Aristio.2784

Change Turrets into mini-tanks for mobility
Scale for more damage
Increase health

Then I’ll use them sometime. Other than that, I believe they are completely useless as a Utility skill.

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Posted by: cottage.3274

cottage.3274

your not stupid at all if its wishful thinking for turrets to be not badly designed.
don`t cling on the so called “buff” it wasn’t a buff just a needed bug fix that did very little to push turrets to a good usable place.(aside for healing turret that is now formally the best healing skill in the game).
you ask for end game viability well the short answer is they aren’t you have better options.
all in all if you sit down and consider the pros and cons of turrets you quickly realize the cons list is much bigger.

to start making them slightly usable anet needs to do 4 things:
1)scale from us (not only boons and conditions )or buff the current self scale.
2)fix ai (hmm or give them any ai for that matter).
3)reduce cd on all turrets in all aspects (pick up,detonate,toolbelt,overcharge,killed)
4)toolkit heal needs to go and have it as a passive on any damage abilities when toolkit is in the slot skill, not only when equip but all the time(even with autotool installation).

*optional: mix the traits in all the lines and not be heavy in Inventions leave rifled turret barrels as a 20 points trait in Inventions and have no 30 point super must have trait anywhere.

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Posted by: aydenunited.5729

aydenunited.5729

My first serious Engineer build was a turret bunker, and while I realize the shortcomings of that build now, I did quite well with it in tPvP free tournies. With accelerated turrets, it really can frustrate opponents and buy a lot of time with smart use.

Not a great build, weak to conditions, but not nearly as bad as the board makes it seem, but this board tends to be a bit dramatic in general. Turret CDs are the major kicker right now for PvP, and the inability to focus your target. Fix those two things and their usefulness greatly increases, I would even venture to say make us the best offensive bunker in the game, since turrets don’t downscale damage with defensive gear stats.

Jumzi (Ranger), Tarnished Coast

(edited by aydenunited.5729)

I want to use Turrets, am I stupid?

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Posted by: Chickenshoes.6250

Chickenshoes.6250

Turrets are generally worse than other skills. Anyone advocating otherwise is simply ignoring this.

Using turrets is not dumb for PvE farming or events where you can make the mobs come to you and you can keep the turrets alive and not always triggering the cooldown. They’re actually pretty good for that especially if you give them some invention traits to help them.

Healing turret is good for stacking regen on the group you’re in. Net turret is great for cheesing suckers in WvW, and what I would assume to also be the case for PvP.

Besides those uses, turrets are generally dumb to use.

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Posted by: bromi.7809

bromi.7809

Try using them other skills and utilities so make synergies.

Sorry, i fixed you, cause you obviously didn’t understand what i was saying. Adding all blast finishers goodies don’t compensate for versatility of OTHER skills comparing to turrets.

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

Sure, you can utilize turrets in interesting, unexpected ways with their blast finishers and perhaps for certain overcharges. But you can’t use them the way turrets are SUPPOSED to work, as area denial. They simply don’t function for that, no matter how you place them. Area denial is the reason many people want to use turrets, in any game, but the turrets of Guild Wars 2 are the greatest disappointment the game has to offer in that regard.

I usually run with Healing Turret + Net/Rifle Turret. Sometimes I go with all 3 when I play with combo fields and blast finishers.

Right, I’m not arguing that they can’t be effective when used to their fullest potential. Healing Turret’s water field and pretty-much-infinite regeneration is very handy for healing, and probably the best turret as far as doing what turrets are supposed to do in terms of general (not exclusively Guild Wars 2) game design. Net Turret is also very potent in its niche, and I’d say is the second most turret-esque turret available.

The Rifle Turret is handy, as well… For a Blast Finisher and knockback. But do you ever place it in order to make an area permanently more hazardous for the enemy to be in? It’s not an area denial tool, as I (and I’m sure most others) would expect a turret ability to be. Yes, it’s fine for utility. Blast Finisher and knockback on a twenty second cooldown, maybe enemy-tagging in certain scenarios, a (very) temporary distraction tool… Again, not arguing that it isn’t useful. It most certainly can be when used properly. But as far as turrets go, it’s a disgrace. A turret in any other game would be something that you set up, intelligently or not, to make an area dangerous as long as it’s alive. In Guild Wars 2, as far as area denial goes, it’s a joke.

Look at the turrets of other games. Team Fortress 2, Engineer’s Sentry Gun is quite potent. If you rush into the area it’s covering, you’re in for some hurt. It’s really easy to deal with, if you know where it is and it doesn’t have much assistance from allied players, but it still tells you “you cannot move freely in this area”.

Portal, despite how fragile the little turrets are, they still make sure that you cannot cross a certain area until dealing with them, or you at least can’t stay there for very long.

Even the infrequently-encountered turrets of Half Life 2 do exactly what turrets should do. They prevent an area from being a playground for the enemy.

Starcraft has a variety of turret-like units and buildings. Sunken Colonies, Photon Cannons, Bunkers… All of these make sure that the enemy needs to come in a large group in order to pass it.

I could list other examples, but the games I have in mind are lesser-known and I doubt anyone would really know exactly what I’m talking about with them. They essentially bolster what I’ve already said, anyway.

Now, I’ll reiterate: The turrets in Guild Wars 2 are not useless, or at least some of them aren’t. But they most certainly are not what turrets should be. They’re more just remote-controlled utilities that trade reliability for versatility. They can do more than the average utility, albeit not without some serious forethought and fortuitous circumstances required. But that’s not what people expect or want when they make a character because “yay, turrets!” Turret-lovers want to take an area and make it their own.

The class is always greener on the other side.

I want to use Turrets, am I stupid?

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Posted by: Anymras.5729

Anymras.5729

As somebody who’s used Turrets of all types from the time he could first equip them to now (with a couple brief forays into Kits, or Elixirs, and one, even, into Gadgets), I have to disagree with the idea that it’s stupid to use Turrets.

It might be difficult, but it’s not stupid. It requires a somewhat counterintuitively aggressive action plan (I often use my turrets fully intending to Detonate them a moment later, for whatever reason – to get Healing Turret’s AoE heal combo, deal more quick damage to an evasive enemy I’ve finally gotten an opportunity to Turret, or to knock an enemy around, for example; my Healing Turret is less a healing mechanism than it is a big hand grenade full of healing elixir, sometimes), disregard for cooldown lengths, and the willingness to grab aggro like a fat kid with a $100 bill in a nickel-and-dime candy shop.

Used properly, a full Turret setup can be used to fight, and defeat, several enemies at a time, that Champion Golem in Malchor’s Leap, Veteran Karkas…you get the idea.

Now, no, they’re not up to par with many of the other skills of the Engineer class. They don’t scale well (they only scaled off of traits, until recently; they now benefit from some of our stats), they don’t stand up well to being targeted (even with Metal-Plated Turrets, most AoE attacks from high-end enemies will obliterate them), they don’t benefit from most of our traits (only ones that specifically mention Turrets will function with them, and one of those still isn’t fixed in PvE, though the recent patch also reduced how nonfunctional it was), and probably not Runes, Sigils, or a variety of other things, but…you can still make them work, if you’ve the wit and will to attain the skill.

Don’t expect it to be easy – I went to using Kits for a time, as I mention above, and they felt easy in comparison – but if you want to use them, use them. Don’t rely on them for area denial, use them with the knowledge that you’ll often end up relying on your toolbelt skills to defend yourself, and be stubborn.

(edited by Anymras.5729)

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Posted by: Chickenshoes.6250

Chickenshoes.6250

“Stupid” is subjective.

Using something more difficult for no reward can be stupid.

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Posted by: Anymras.5729

Anymras.5729

It’s a video game. Using something more difficult because you find it more interesting is no more or less stupid than using something easier because you prefer it.

In the end, it all comes down to taste, in this particular case.

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

This is exactly the problem most engineers have – they stick to the bandwagon and stop thinking outside the box. While most people don’t, you understand that turrets can be used in other ways. Then that’s how you use them.

Everybody knows that turrets are clanky and goes down in 1 AoE. Then why do these guys keep on dropping turrets on areas that can easily be targeted by the enemy? If turrets were designed that way, doesn’t it mean that they were not actually meant to tank(at least for now)? So stop forcing them to tank the enemy AoE’s then.

A good placed Net/Rocket Turret will not be noticed by people most of the time. I’ve underwent a lot of games where I bunkered 1 node and only used 1 net/rocket turret on the course of the game because people were to busy to even look for it. A rocket turret’s overcharge will cool down in 20 seconds and knock back enemies. It also has a good up time for burning. A net turret can be overcharged to make it fire 2 consecutive net shots, even better when you trait for sitting duck.

A Rifle turret’s DPS sucks when just dropped on the ground but synergies pretty well with Static Discharge. When traited 30 tools, Surprise Shot can be used every 8 seconds and cools down for 20 seconds when blasted. This can be useful w/ bomb kit as well. Fire bomb cools down in 10 seconds, detonated Rifle Turret cools down in 20 seconds, 3x stacks of might gained from Blast finishers last for 20 seconds. If you can use this to your advantage, you have pretty much a permanent 3 stacks of might uptime.

As for Thumper and Flame Turret, it’s pretty hard to use them since they’re pretty much melee. These 2 turrets are the only ones I barely use.

TL;DR – if turrets suck at tanking/dishing out DPS when dropped, then don’t make them tank and don’t drop them for the sole purpose of DPS. If you find turrets ineffective when used like this, then simply don’t.