Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
If balance be truly your goal....
They do not actually play their professions adequatly to properly gauge balance. Nor do they apparently know what their design goals truely are or they wouldnt write what they wrote.
Anyone can put Engineer and Elementalist right next to eachother and read them out loud and notice some glaring contradicitions. Or just look at the Thief, ha! “Should be countered with conditions and aoe” hilarious.
Engineer gets hybrid tax for being versatile (we can debate wether it truely is or not), yet the more versatile class (Elementalist) does not get a hybrid tax. You cannot justify that.
And either they go silent over this, realizing their stupidity of putting stuff in words like this or they will man up and admit they made a mistake with this. I’m thinking the former is the safest bet.
And if these little write ups truely represent their design intentions for the various professions, they would have to scratch their heads and wonder how disconnected they have truely become from their own game. And note that these different design philosophies are strongly contradicting eachother, and reality.
The most troubling part is, its been just 4 months and they’ve already lost track.
(edited by Terrahero.9358)
Traiting is the versatility here for Engi or Ele. Ele may be a little more orthodox in this respect . . . ANET defines the ele, “the KING of versatility”. If by “king”, we mean a ruler by orthodoxy, then we can’t help but agree. I’d call the Engineer unorthodox, but an innovative leader nonetheless. PVE or PVP, I really enjoy playing engineer. A section about limitations would be interesting, but I’d rather peer into the benefits than the hangups. There are a lot of benefits: better condi application and damage—more crit opportunity—better mobility. If you know your character, you can reap those benefits.
Just call me Lunar
(edited by Lunar Corporation.5720)
Do we have better condition damage than the Elementalist? Seems to me we had a nerf a while back, specifically to our bleed damage.
Not sure how their bleed stacking compares to ours, but they can definitely stack bleeds with their Earth attunment (the staff can keep 12 stacks up just with ability #2, and d/d looks to be able to stack about that many as well.)
A trait which provides a 60% chance to cause vulnerability on crits (10% better than our own trait.)
They can trait for a 30% chance to inflict burning on crits (we have a 33% chance, but we also have an internal cooldown on our activation which guarantees less than 100% uptime.)
Not sure what else they have, but I don’t think they are lacking in the condition stacking department.
-Travail.
Do we have better condition damage than the Elementalist? Seems to me we had a nerf a while back, specifically to our bleed damage.
Not sure how their bleed stacking compares to ours, but they can definitely stack bleeds with their Earth attunment (the staff can keep 12 stacks up just with ability #2, and d/d looks to be able to stack about that many as well.)
A trait which provides a 60% chance to cause vulnerability on crits (10% better than our own trait.)
They can trait for a 30% chance to inflict burning on crits (we have a 33% chance, but we also have an internal cooldown on our activation which guarantees less than 100% uptime.)
Not sure what else they have, but I don’t think they are lacking in the condition stacking department.
-Travail.
The bleed damage for engi is not on par with any other class, the burn damage is not on par with guardian, the poison damage is not on par with necros, the list goes on. (actually the bleed might match the thief’s i’ve gotta check.) but still this is getting ridiculous.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
Do we have better condition damage than the Elementalist? Seems to me we had a nerf a while back, specifically to our bleed damage.
Not sure how their bleed stacking compares to ours, but they can definitely stack bleeds with their Earth attunment (the staff can keep 12 stacks up just with ability #2, and d/d looks to be able to stack about that many as well.)
A trait which provides a 60% chance to cause vulnerability on crits (10% better than our own trait.)
They can trait for a 30% chance to inflict burning on crits (we have a 33% chance, but we also have an internal cooldown on our activation which guarantees less than 100% uptime.)
Not sure what else they have, but I don’t think they are lacking in the condition stacking department.
-Travail.
The time it takes to get eruption off (staff earth attun. skill #2) is pretty long, so an Ele can stack the burns and might inside of fire attun. pretty well, and massive aoe damage there, arguably more effective than going for earth on the aoe. but it is an awesome skill.
Engineer can stack bleeds much easier than the Ele in comparison. the 15% boost on shrapnel only adds to this if you are a grenadeir GM with crits going and so forth. in terms of the engineer and Ele skill that allows burning on crits . . . You need to be pretty nit-picky to kitten about the differences there IMHO. Just don’t see it being that different.
The bleed damage for engi is not on par with any other class, the burn damage is not on par with guardian, the poison damage is not on par with necros, the list goes on. (actually the bleed might match the thief’s i’ve gotta check.) but still this is getting ridiculous.
Can you give me evidence of this? The way it stands now, bleeds are fixed for engis. My burn and poison conditions do pretty well for me. But until you have some evidence from patches, bugs, or wiki, I am just looking at this as another QQ.
Just call me Lunar
Do people here ever go and look at other class forums? Elementalists have been complaining about their damage and crap skills since day one. Yes, eles are versatile, but they certainly aren’t particularly stronger than Engineers in terms of dps and are much squishier.
Do people here ever go and look at other class forums? Elementalists have been complaining about their damage and crap skills since day one. Yes, eles are versatile, but they certainly aren’t particularly stronger than Engineers in terms of dps and are much squishier.
I do! I also own an 80 ele along with my engi. They don’t do much dps, but a lot better playing as support as oppose to engi.
Do people here ever go and look at other class forums? Elementalists have been complaining about their damage and crap skills since day one. Yes, eles are versatile, but they certainly aren’t particularly stronger than Engineers in terms of dps and are much squishier.
Oh that’s funny. Yeah, they might wear toilet paper armor, but that doesn’t mean they can’t actually do serious damage with their fire spells without being a glass cannon, all we’re asking for is they use some common sense. Flamethrowers should never miss while covering the enemies in flames, bombs/grenades should have as much an explosive radius as my thief’s 1 hander gimme a break, the initial damage for poisons and bleeds should be en par with necros when one is traited for all condie damage. It’s not that difficult to compare numbers and adjust to match is it?
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
damage for poisons and bleeds should be en par with necros when one is traited for all condie damage. It’s not that difficult to compare numbers and adjust to match is it?
you mean the ability of a necromancer to proc 15 bleeds with epidemic? cuz the damage for bleeds isnt changing here, the amount of bleeds that you apply, tho, does matter…IJS if u have numbers to prove the difference i guess thats a different story, but it isnt helpful here to get sources confused and repost it
Just call me Lunar
(edited by Lunar Corporation.5720)
Do people here ever go and look at other class forums? Elementalists have been complaining about their damage and crap skills since day one. Yes, eles are versatile, but they certainly aren’t particularly stronger than Engineers in terms of dps and are much squishier.
Many of us here also play Elementalists. They aren’t in the same boat as Engineers.
Elementalists can at least find builds which, while they aren’t top tier in terms of pure dps output, are still plenty desirable in group PvE. They are also very strong in PvP. Are they perfect? No. Do they have multiple viable specs across all different types of content? Yes.
There are plenty of ways for Elementalists to be effective while they wait for some of the issues with the class to be addressed. Furthermore, while they might not be fixing the sub-par aspects of the Elementalist, they aren’t nerfing the bright spots of the class, either.
-Travail.
Traiting is the versatility here for Engi or Ele. Ele may be a little more orthodox in this respect . . . ANET defines the ele, “the KING of versatility”. If by “king”, we mean a ruler by orthodoxy, then we can’t help but agree. I’d call the Engineer unorthodox, but an innovative leader nonetheless. PVE or PVP, I really enjoy playing engineer. A section about limitations would be interesting, but I’d rather peer into the benefits than the hangups. There are a lot of benefits: better condi application and damage—more crit opportunity—better mobility. If you know your character, you can reap those benefits.
does Engineer have better mobility than eles?
Everyone should just re-roll to warrior. They have an innate immunity to nerfs, so you’ll never have to worry about having your effectiveness reduced. No, if anything, you’ll just have it continually increased!
No, apparently warrior is underpowered! They wont be balanced until they can deal 50k damage on an auto-attack!
Everyone should just re-roll to warrior. They have an innate immunity to nerfs, so you’ll never have to worry about having your effectiveness reduced. No, if anything, you’ll just have it continually increased!
No, apparently warrior is underpowered! They wont be balanced until they can deal 50k damage on an auto-attack!
what kills warrior isnt that they are lacking in the damage department but that other classes wipe their rears with conditions inflicted on them while warrior cant remove nearly as many conditions as others. and the terrible reliability on pure melee when everyone can spam leaps and whatever. last but not least vit vs armor output what is the point in having 30k hp if you ll lose it just as fast.
Do people here ever go and look at other class forums? Elementalists have been complaining about their damage and crap skills since day one. Yes, eles are versatile, but they certainly aren’t particularly stronger than Engineers in terms of dps and are much squishier.
elementalist does..
INSANE damage INSANE if they spec for it but they are Squishy as kitten also
but Elementalist is overall better and more options ( they can ddeal more dmg if they want to they can be a better supporter and things )
Do people here ever go and look at other class forums? Elementalists have been complaining about their damage and crap skills since day one. Yes, eles are versatile, but they certainly aren’t particularly stronger than Engineers in terms of dps and are much squishier.
elementalist does..
INSANE damage INSANE if they spec for it but they are Squishy as kitten also
but Elementalist is overall better and more options ( they can ddeal more dmg if they want to they can be a better supporter and things )
elementalist have massive damage and mobility if anyone complains its because the user is too lazy to figure he has to switch attunements during combat for maximum performance.
Do people here ever go and look at other class forums? Elementalists have been complaining about their damage and crap skills since day one. Yes, eles are versatile, but they certainly aren’t particularly stronger than Engineers in terms of dps and are much squishier.
elementalist does..
INSANE damage INSANE if they spec for it but they are Squishy as kitten also
but Elementalist is overall better and more options ( they can ddeal more dmg if they want to they can be a better supporter and things )
elementalist have massive damage and mobility if anyone complains its because the user is too lazy to figure he has to switch attunements during combat for maximum performance.
Exactllyyy
i aint saying ele is not easy to play but hell its amazing if you know how
Ele don’t do ‘massive’ damage in any way. Even if you know how to play them well, by comparison their damage is eclipsed by their utility. An elementalist going full glass cannon can’t touch a thief building the same way. Mathamatically. This is common knowledge.
They do not actually play their professions adequatly to properly gauge balance.
[citation needed]
Every game company I’ve worked for had between 5 to 10 hours of mandatory play time every single week, while at the office. Not including the 10-20 you were expected to put in at home after a game went live.
so I call BS unless you know something for a fact.
They do not actually play their professions adequatly to properly gauge balance.
[citation needed]
Every game company I’ve worked for had between 5 to 10 hours of mandatory play time every single week, while at the office. Not including the 10-20 you were expected to put in at home after a game went live.
so I call BS unless you know something for a fact.
Here’s one for you:
Toss elixir R was nerfed, going from a CD of 90 seconds to a cd of 120 seconds. This was done for pvp purposes and was a result of a complaint thread on the spvp forums.
Thing is, almost every single build out in pvp has inertial converter which resets the cooldown of all toolbelt skills which means you can use toss elixir R far more than evey 90 seconds, let alone 120 seconds. It was a blind and completely impotent nerf showing a complete ignorance of engineer mechanics.
That is one of the most obvious examples of a balance change that showed a complete lack of class know-how. I can provide more If you’d like, I just don’t want to spam the thread.
They do not actually play their professions adequatly to properly gauge balance.
[citation needed]
Every game company I’ve worked for had between 5 to 10 hours of mandatory play time every single week, while at the office. Not including the 10-20 you were expected to put in at home after a game went live.
so I call BS unless you know something for a fact.
Here’s one for you:
Toss elixir R was nerfed, going from a CD of 90 seconds to a cd of 120 seconds. This was done for pvp purposes and was a result of a complaint thread on the spvp forums.
Thing is, almost every single build out in pvp has inertial converter which resets the cooldown of all toolbelt skills which means you can use toss elixir R far more than evey 90 seconds, let alone 120 seconds. It was a blind and completely impotent nerf showing a complete ignorance of engineer mechanics.That is one of the most obvious examples of a balance change that showed a complete lack of class know-how. I can provide more If you’d like, I just don’t want to spam the thread.
Maybe we should all go to the sPVP forums and complain about the pve aspects of this class being ignored for far too long, we might actually get a response then huh. Someone should try it because if they answer us there, that will show us what they care about.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
They do not actually play their professions adequatly to properly gauge balance.
[citation needed]
Every game company I’ve worked for had between 5 to 10 hours of mandatory play time every single week, while at the office. Not including the 10-20 you were expected to put in at home after a game went live.
so I call BS unless you know something for a fact.
well for one thing we do know the history of the entire industry and history has shown us that every mmo has had to have a PTR, however Anet seems to think they are too good to have to deal with the reality of untested patches, so there you go.
It’s obvious to some that they aren’t playing this class on a regular basis, it appears to most that they just throw some new patch in and try it out on unmoving dummy targets on the simulator system they have setup to test these things because if they TRULY honestly tested these changes they would know how they don’t work.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
They do not actually play their professions adequatly to properly gauge balance.
[citation needed]
Every game company I’ve worked for had between 5 to 10 hours of mandatory play time every single week, while at the office. Not including the 10-20 you were expected to put in at home after a game went live.
so I call BS unless you know something for a fact.
That pic of Peters running a 5 signet War is all the citation I’ll ever need.
His comments on DS, the mentioned change to Elixer R and probably a dozen more examples are easy to find.
Being willfully ignorant and demanding facts based on an anecdote makes your argument look pretty weak.
Do they play the game? yes
Have they made a game with a large amount of potential? yes
Are they good at their own game? probably not. We’ve seen some good examples of this from them and from other companies.
The drawing board and practice are completely different.
speculation and wild accusations != proof.
I can speculate that you don’t play engie either, I would be just as wrong, but I can do it.
Game devs, especially system devs, are very often required as part of their contract to play the game for a minimum number of hours (my previous employer would check the login times on our accounts, if we were short, we got cited). I would bet my last dollar that there are at least 100h of engie time alone across the ANet offices in a given week.
So unless you’ve got nothing more than “this change didn’t make sense to me, an armchair dev with no actual professional experience and no inside knowledge about what can and can not be done technically on ANet’s systems”… please, by all means stick to wild speculation and blind guesses.
speculation and wild accusations != proof.
I can speculate that you don’t play engie either, I would be just as wrong, but I can do it.
Game devs, especially system devs, are very often required as part of their contract to play the game for a minimum number of hours (my previous employer would check the login times on our accounts, if we were short, we got cited). I would bet my last dollar that there are at least 100h of engie time alone across the ANet offices in a given week.
So unless you’ve got nothing more than “this change didn’t make sense to me, an armchair dev with no actual professional experience and no inside knowledge about what can and can not be done technically on ANet’s systems”… please, by all means stick to wild speculation and blind guesses.
Usually I hear the opposite when it comes to MMOs because companies have problems with the perception that dev’s playing causes. For instance, a little-known internet spaceship game has an ‘internal affairs’ department that monitors devs to make sure they aren’t cheating, and any sort of PVP has to be investigated after the fact. So, most of them don’t actually play their own game except on test servers.
Zoel – GM of [coVn]
My speculative guess is that they got all the employees working on the damned holiday updates instead of fixing the things they already have. Halloween, the karka event, and wintersday happened pretty much right next to eachother and none of them were kitten. (Southsun cove was the big part of the karka event, not the screwed up world-event.)
They probably threw in that sigil change without having the time to work in anything that took time to develop and test. Maybe after wintersday they will have time to get some of this kitten straight.
However they seemed to have plenty of time to buff everything besides engineer, so I dunno.
“please, by all means stick to wild speculation and blind guesses.”
A lot of people would rather not have to speculate.
However without the magic sense-making data, we have to because a lot of things make no sense with the data we have.
Hence the asking for better communication which has been a rather large issue for every MMO that doesn’t communicate with any depth.
I read this topic title in an irish accent.
Jumzi (Ranger), Tarnished Coast