Guild Wars 2

It took Anet 3.5 years to release new skills, and they did it under the Elite Specialization system. Judging from where they’re going with these, it seems like we might only ever get new skill types rather than expansions on old ones. This is fine for most classes, but for Engineer it means they might never get another kit. Which are the reasons why some people even play Engineer in the first place.

Would you guys be okay with a turrets attempt #3 for the next expansion? Because I don’t think I’d like that very much.

AI = do not want.
Minions,Pets,Gyros,Turrets,Clones,Summons = do not want.

Skill-based gameplay = do want.

Kits are one of the engineers class mechanics, along with the toolbelt. They are the reason engies don’t get to weapon swap.
Just as eles can attune swap, engies can equip kits.

I was very disappointed that Scrapper didn’t give engies a new kit.
They could change function gyro into a kit! Then it might be useful on pve…

i sincerely hope we do not get more ai and i sincerely doubt they will give us more/another kit(s).

in my faulty memory, i recall seeing 0 posts prior to HoT saying “we want ai”. gyros looked cool, but i dont recall people actually wanting ai and the reception to having ai forced on engi again was chilly.

New kits are the best way to expand engi. If the next elite spec is minions again im out for good.

Pride.1734:

New kits are the best way to expand engi. If the next elite spec is minions again im out for good.

Or goood gadgets/elixirs too, it doesnt necessarily have to be kits, sure they are great, but i feel we need something else that can take the spot as viable besides of kits or gtfo.

Do the devs understand the importance of kits to our class? I doubt it.

what is an engineer that cannot create though ?

turrets and gyros are as staple as gadgets and kits

santenal.1054:

Do the devs understand the importance of kits to our class? I doubt it.

“OOH, Welcome to the balance team, we balance the game i think”
“Hey Ray!”
“What the kitten is an engineer?”

A new kit wouldn’t really fit the Elite Spec “mold” unless it was given as the new profession mechanic mod. Elite specs so far give a full set of utilities of a matching type, which a kit wouldn’t really fit. Even if they did 5 kits (which would be insane in terms of stuff added and amount of work needed) kits are treated as their own separate thing, even if they’re all called kits. Grenade Kit and Flamethrower Kit don’t overlap in traits or abilities whatsoever, not like, say, Glyphs or Traps or whatever.

I suppose maybe they could go the Elixir Gun route and add one kit along with 3 other utilities, a heal, and an elite all with overlapping concepts. That might work.

A built-in kit as an F6 (or attached to the weapon swap key) would be pretty amazing, though. It’d allow that elite spec to use a full set of heals and utilities outside of kits while not being restrained to only a single weapon.

Even if you could make a kit work into the elite spec mold, however, there’s also the issue of adding “too much” to the Elite Spec. By design, Engie already gets double the new skills via toolbelt skills on all their new heal / utilities / elite. Throw a kit into the mix and you’re looking at tripling the amount of new stuff compared to what other professions get. Not only does that run the risk of ticking off other players, but its a lot more work in terms of design and balance for the developers as well.

The ‘more work’ and ‘may tick off other players’ argument has been used to justify giving elementalists a steady diet of offhands too. Yes, it is more skills, but it’s the way the profession is designed – elementalists and engineers pay for the extra skills by having other downsides. Steadily eroding that advantage by limiting what they can get through elite specialisations will put them in an increasingly worsening situation.

Plus, the impact of a set of new skills is often not proportional to the impact of those skills. Chronomancer only got two new skills with their shield (three if you count Deja Vu as a seperate skill) but I’d argue that those two skills make more difference to mesmers than all eight warhorn skills do for elementalists.

To play Devil’s Advocate, a better argument against new kits might be that being stuck with the original set of kits is equivalent to most professions still only getting one new weapon, meaning that outside of niche builds which have the same weapon in both sets, they’re only getting the new weapon on one set. Engineer elite specs offering a new weapon but being stuck with the same kits could be seen as equivalent to that.

If we are to have new kits… well, having a new elite spec with a full set of four new kits would be excessive. What they could do, though, is have an elite spec focused on branching into a new area of technology – asura magitech, say. You could have one or two kits using that technology, while the rest of the new skills are something different, and all the skills could be gathered under the name of the technology in question (so a hypothetical magitech-focused elite specialisation could have ‘magitech skills’ as their new utilities).

(I would point out, though, that there are traits that boost kits in general: Backpack Regenerator and Streamlined Kits both apply to all kits. It’s just that engineer also has traits boosting specific kits in lieu of the traits other professions have to boost specific weapons.)

draxynnic.3719:

The ‘more work’ and ‘may tick off other players’ argument has been used to justify giving elementalists a steady diet of offhands too. Yes, it is more skills, but it’s the way the profession is designed – elementalists and engineers pay for the extra skills by having other downsides.

I agree wholeheartedly. Those are not reasons, they are excuses. ANet is probably not afraid of work. Furthermore, HoT was not an example we want to look back on since they scrapped that all together in an amazingly short time. There’s a lot more time for the next expansion, so I think it’ll show in the product we eventually get.

Personally I wish they’d remove the kits Before HoT these kits were viable and essential part of game play but since then the combat was ruined. Our kits are soo under powered and more of a liability in most situations than an advantage. I would like to see kits removed and new skills replacing them if you look at the PvE rotation for condi its one skill out of 5 kits. If they don’t remove kits they need a total overhaul to come even close to the combat HoT unfortunately introduced

First of all, if we look at the new skill development and think a little, we’ll get to the conclusion that it’s highly unlikely (or probably even unrealistic) that we’ll get a new kit. With elite specs, no skill group for any profession was expanded. And if any of our skill groups were to be expanded, it wouldn’t be kits because they’re complete and groups like for example Gadgets do not even have elite.

Second of all, I certainly hope that we’ll rather get a kit skill redesign. Many people have mentioned that kits belong to the identity of engi and are similar to ele attunements. Kits are so OP in comparison to other skills that almost all our builds use at least one. Meanwhile many other skills are not that bad but mediocre in comparison to kits.

Kits were not created to be the “must have” skills. Our identity should be the toolbelt and the secondary skills. Yes, no weapon swap was decided because of them but it doesn’t change the fact that kits are overused. IMO we don’t need more.

leviathan.2148:

First of all, if we look at the new skill development and think a little, we’ll get to the conclusion that it’s highly unlikely (or probably even unrealistic) that we’ll get a new kit. With elite specs, no skill group for any profession was expanded. And if any of our skill groups were to be expanded, it wouldn’t be kits because they’re complete and groups like for example Gadgets do not even have elite.

Second of all, I certainly hope that we’ll rather get a kit skill redesign. Many people have mentioned that kits belong to the identity of engi and are similar to ele attunements. Kits are so OP in comparison to other skills that almost all our builds use at least one. Meanwhile many other skills are not that bad but mediocre in comparison to kits.

Kits were not created to be the “must have” skills. Our identity should be the toolbelt and the secondary skills. Yes, no weapon swap was decided because of them but it doesn’t change the fact that kits are overused. IMO we don’t need more.

You know whats the main issue of this? our weapon autoattacks, if they werent underwhelming to use, engineers would be free of not playing kits without suffering dps loss so hardly, sure, a kit would still look good, but it wouldnt be so mandatory as it is now

If you remove kits you might as well delete the entire class. You are supposed to use at least oneor two kit with any engi build and kits are what makes the profession skill based and fun to play. Its like guardians and their symbols yea sure virtues are their class mecanic but symbols are just as much part of the guardian identity.

Now the PvE situation with all kits skills is simply due to the fact that all our other utilities do nothing in a group setting. We had no issue using slick shoes when they still had some use but as it stands none of our utilities are worth bringing over the raw damage option.
Make gadgets or turrets worthwhile utility support and suddenly our rota is much easier as as well as getting our own niche because we now bring something valuable to the team.

Pride.1734:

If you remove kits you might as well delete the entire class. You are supposed to use at least one or two kit with any engi build and kits are what makes the profession skill based and fun to play. Its like guardians and their symbols yea sure virtues are their class mecanic but symbols are just as much part of the guardian identity.

Now the PvE situation with all kits skills is simply due to the fact that all our other utilities do nothing in a group setting. We had no issue using slick shoes when they still had some use but as it stands none of our utilities are worth bringing over the raw damage option.
Make gadgets or turrets worthwhile utility support and suddenly our rota is much easier as as well as getting our own niche because we now bring something valuable to the team.

Since the day i started to play this game ( 1 entire year already :P), at least in pve, kits always, always dominated the meta builds, i, for once, accept to have buffs that can put kits to the bench, I never did had the experience of playing turret builds when i joined this game because they were nerfed into oblivion, neither a gadget build, when i joined the game and i was new i remember that elixirs were so fun to use and play, and slowly started to learn that kits its what the people want to see, in fact, if we dont get any dramatic change, ill guarantee you kits like the greande kit will stay stuck in our builds, by forever!

Let’s face it, the engineers skills (kits in particular) need an overhaul. The only one I use often is the flamethrower kit, occasionally the tool and grenade kits. Most of the gadgets and some of the kits are near useless – at least to myself.

I would welcome a “Cyborg Elite Spec” that uses kit-like enhancements that you can equip, gain 5 new skills, but will have a cd after dropping it. Like personal concured weapons of the Ele.

But basicly – everything is better than more AI …

we need a power armor elite :v

at least a better one than the asura racial elite

I think maybe we should fix the ones that need it, before we create new kits and skills.

Andy Warhol.6250:

I think maybe we should fix the ones that need it, before we create new kits and skills.

First off, everyone is saying about a fix…. but what they have to fix? what is wrong with kits?, no one is pointing what is the issue.

Ivantreil.3092:

Andy Warhol.6250:

I think maybe we should fix the ones that need it, before we create new kits and skills.

First off, everyone is saying about a fix…. but what they have to fix? what is wrong with kits?, no one is pointing what is the issue.

Nades – They are slow. Granadier feels like it should be baseline, or at least the speed. Make the speed baseline and give the trait a CD reduction, and merge with the fall trait so we can have elixir bombs back!
Bombs – After-cast is terrible. underwater bombs is how it should work. Swap glue bomb for the magnetic one (from streamlined kits) so we have more active control on the kit, not passive. Elixir infused bombs needs to be a thing again. Give engies the ability to heal/support their team with water fields and blasts + bombs.
FT – smoke vent needs to be a short smoke field
EG – that auto needs more range, its the only ST ranged kit we have, and sometimes the only ST ranged weapon we got. It needs to reach further than pistols.
Tool Kit – Make the auto-attack faster. Its slower than hammer! And make it worth it to keep turrets alive with it. TK is supposed to be the kit you use while having your turrets around, so you use the kit to keep the turrets alive. But turrets are hardly worth it to keep alive instead of blowing them up ASAP…

Now you could argue that those are not really NEEDED fixes… but here is where it gets hairy.

Med Kit…
This is completely broken.
Its hard to even find suggestions to make it work.
The “auto-attack” is useless. It heals less than a ele staff auto-attack, and it cant heal the engi.
The packs are small and can only be picked by one player. Thats is terrible. They need a larger “hitbox” and affect up to 10 people.
The kit needs a water field if its ever to be used.

Nothing. Kits are awesome. Other utilities? Not so much.

Xyonon.3987:

Nothing. Kits are awesome. Other utilities? Not so much.

even Med kit?
or is it so bad that its forgotten?

lLobo; I think the Tool Kit should also have a cleave ability on the last wrench attack ("Thwack) as well as the crowbar attack. The second attack – with the bits of metal and nails etc… is near useless. Keep the 2 seconds of cripple, but increase the bleed damage more. Hell, you could add agony damage as well. I mean, ever step on something sharp and pointy? Lots of nerve endings down there!

Aside from that, your post is fine.

lLobo.7960:

Xyonon.3987:

Nothing. Kits are awesome. Other utilities? Not so much.

even Med kit?
or is it so bad that its forgotten?

What’s a Med kit? Is that another name for Healing Turret? :P

Thwacking turrets with tool kit should add damage reduction to them.
There is no point repairing already destroyed turrets…

guildabd.6529:

Thwacking turrets with tool kit should add damage reduction to them.
There is no point repairing already destroyed turrets…

From all what we have, turrets and turret related buffs are probably the last thing anet would touch, i doubt they want to see viable turrets ever again

guildabd.6529:

Thwacking turrets with tool kit should add damage reduction to them.
There is no point repairing already destroyed turrets…

of all the things you suggest, this one isnt crazy as usual. +1