Guild Wars 2

Of course it’s viable. I have run it for the past year and a half.

I find it laughable that the meta build in pve is now what I have been using for over a year, without others catching on. It’s even viable in pvp! I’ve achieved top 20 ranks in both team and solo pvp with a ft/eg/nades build and it’s not even hard. Just learn to utilize blast finishers every time you use one. Even the “top” engis like backpack or chaith fail to capitalize on this when I watch them.

It’s ironic that every single 3 kit rifle build was taboo before the recent buffs to celestial stats, when the same stats were achievable with jewels before that. It’s also a good build for jumping out of maps! But, that video of mine has been removed. It is still possible to jump out of every pvp map, however, I won’t upload another video like that.

Yea I know that feeling:-P Usualy “top” players and meta makers are not ppl who invent build or strategy but someone who made post / video about it and they usualy dont even use the best thing what class is capable of but just something above average.
And then you met some newbie in dungeon what do barely half dps you did and when you wanna help him with build he told you “No thx I dont need any advices I have this meta build from DnT forum”.

Rozbuska.5263:

Yea I know that feeling:-P Usualy “top” players and meta makers are not ppl who invent build or strategy but someone who made post / video about it and they usualy dont even use the best thing what class is capable of but just something above average.
And then you met some newbie in dungeon what do barely half dps you did and when you wanna help him with build he told you “No thx I dont need any advices I have this meta build from DnT forum”.

Some people wanna do their own thing :/ personally I don’t appreciate people trying to give me advice when I didn’t ask for it either :v if anyone has zerk gear for dungeons they shouldn’t have a problem pumping enough dps to not be dead weight though. I’m not sure there is a best build as opposed to just being a good player. If the OP likes FT and Egun and does a good job with it, then why not? I’ve been beat down by an engineer with pretty much the same build, couldn’t beat him even with several tries. Engineer is low skill floor, high skill cap class. Do your thing, but do it skillfully I say.

Depths.4051:

Rozbuska.5263:

Yea I know that feeling:-P Usualy “top” players and meta makers are not ppl who invent build or strategy but someone who made post / video about it and they usualy dont even use the best thing what class is capable of but just something above average.
And then you met some newbie in dungeon what do barely half dps you did and when you wanna help him with build he told you “No thx I dont need any advices I have this meta build from DnT forum”.

Some people wanna do their own thing :/ personally I don’t appreciate people trying to give me advice when I didn’t ask for it either :v if anyone has zerk gear for dungeons they shouldn’t have a problem pumping enough dps to not be dead weight though. I’m not sure there is a best build as opposed to just being a good player. If the OP likes FT and Egun and does a good job with it, then why not? I’ve been beat down by an engineer with pretty much the same build, couldn’t beat him even with several tries. Engineer is low skill floor, high skill cap class. Do your thing, but do it skillfully I say.

I agree and I dont usualy send andvices without asking but that engi was so bad that time:-) Problem is when some noob raging on you why you dont use meta build and there is no way to convince him your build is actualy much better for current situation because its meta and meta must be best right?

Meta builds are plague of games. One of reason why I enjoy engi so much from start was there wasnt meta builds for him, there was ton a different builds with different playstyle and all works great. And then meta plague carriers from other classes discover that engi is also great class capable of everythng and ruin all that amazing theorycrafting what happend here before. Now are ppl scare to post their builds because here are builds what someone called meta and present them as only usefull.

bethekey.8314:

I find it laughable that the meta build in pve is now what I have been using for over a year, without others catching on.

your humor makes no sense. its not that people didnt catch on. its that you didnt catch on that it was weak and needed buffs, and ft recently got a 6 sec blast finisher. people already used eg for acid bomb.

/shrug

bethekey.8314:

Even the “top” engis like backpack or chaith fail to capitalize on this when I watch them.

Since you literally called me out by name, (thanks buddy) I figured I’d drop my 2c.

I have to ask, what combos are you watching “top” engies for? In the serious PvP build, the only field that the majority of Engineers run is Water, and the only blast I have is Detonate Healing Turret. Haha. I work the blast finishers all the time, dunno what you mean. F1 Water field + Jump Shot is done pretty much on the regular as well.

bethekey.8314:

It’s even viable in pvp! I’ve achieved top 20 ranks in both team and solo pvp with a ft/eg/nades build and it’s not even hard. Just learn to utilize blast finishers every time you use one.

I do like the build a lot, I’ve played enough of Cele NADE/EG/FT. It’s super strong when you learn to blast Napalm 3 times every 30s using 2 Flame Blasts and Acid Bomb. I also like Cele Nade/EG/Bombs. And Cele HgH Rifle. And Berserker air/fire sigil static discharge.

I don’t prefer builds that skip both Elixir S and Tool Kit. That’s because a big complaint of mine is that they often succumb to a single immobilize & focus fire. The lack of a block, invuln, and stealth greatly improve the quality of life for 2+ enemies that are interested in sticking to you, and spiking you.

Running with no Elixir S or Toolkit is a good way to underestimate your opponents ability to perform plays that you can’t just pre-emptively counter with great positioning and situational awareness.

There are times when you get stealth pulled. There are times when you can’t stunbreak and of course not random dodge an instant Doom into Dark Path & condi spam. There are times when Mirror Blade + shatter from stealth happens, and a thief simultaneously hops on you from 1500 distance away, etc.

Also the lack of a stealth pull, or pull for that matter, makes it lose a considerable amount of initiating ability.

I feel if Leg Mods & Hoelbrak are used in tandem, running with few defensive cooldowns can become bearable, though.

bethekey.8314:

It’s ironic that every single 3 kit rifle build was taboo before the recent buffs to celestial stats, when the same stats were achievable with jewels before that. It’s also a good build for jumping out of maps! But, that video of mine has been removed. It is still possible to jump out of every pvp map, however, I won’t upload another video like that.

I wouldn’t really say the same stats or effectiveness were achievable with jewel customization before.

Running Berserker Amulet with EG/FT/Nades is just as unforgiving as it’s always been. It may have lost the ability to jewel swap, but if you’re saying that it’s always been viable, I strongly disagree.

The raw stat budget has been increased by a lot via Cele amulet, making more substantial and efficient builds than if you would have traded 200 stats comprised of Power and Precision for 200 stats comprised of Condition Damage and Healing with an old jewel swap.

Suddenly all the options that point towards hybrid damage composition (most Engi damage traits & abilities) gained the viability granting stats in PvP. E-Gun, FT, Nades, these three kits are so made for Cele stats.

Your favorite berserker builds always brought Incendiary Powder, Backpack Regenerator, and Elixir Gun sustain. Can you see how having a ton more condition damage and healing power has made that build undeniably better?

3 Kit Rifle builds just weren’t as good as other builds, pre-cele stats. Adding 10 blasts a minute to Flamethrower also has increased the viability in Flamethrower PvE.

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

Buckle up, it’ll be a long one.

Chaith.8256

Since you literally called me out by name, (thanks buddy) I figured I’d drop my 2c.

Haha, sorry. You must realize, however, that you do open yourself up to criticism when you’re often cited as one of the best.

Chaith.8256

I have to ask, what combos are you watching “top” engies for? In the serious PvP build, the only field that the majority of Engineers run is Water, and the only blast I have is Detonate Healing Turret. Haha. I work the blast finishers all the time, dunno what you mean. F1 Water field + Jump Shot is done pretty much on the regular as well.

Detonate Healing Turret was the only blast I saw other engineers doing consistently, because, well, it is pretty much done for you. Utilizing the approximately equal cds of your Healing Turret toolbelt and Jump Shot to always get the extra healing was almost never done, but thankfully it is catching on now. If memory serves me correctly, every “serious” PvP build has included Grenade Kit, which also has poison fields. Against thieves in particular, weakness is devastating and I NEVER see someone using their healing turret for a weakness blast in an opportune moment. I have some additional pointers if you’re looking for them.

Chaith.8256

I do like the build a lot, I’ve played enough of Cele NADE/EG/FT. It’s super strong when you learn to blast Napalm 3 times every 30s using 2 Flame Blasts and Acid Bomb. I also like Cele Nade/EG/Bombs. And Cele HgH Rifle. And Berserker air/fire sigil static discharge.

Running Berserker Amulet with EG/FT/Nades is just as unforgiving as it’s always been. It may have lost the ability to jewel swap, but if you’re saying that it’s always been viable, I strongly disagree.
The raw stat budget has been increased by a lot via Cele amulet, making more substantial and efficient builds than if you would have traded 200 stats comprised of Power and Precision for 200 stats comprised of Condition Damage and Healing with an old jewel swap.
Suddenly all the options that point towards hybrid damage composition (most Engi damage traits & abilities) gained the viability granting stats in PvP. E-Gun, FT, Nades, these three kits are so made for Cele stats.

I do not even play Cele with the build normally. Utilizing combos correctly with pseudo-toughness skills like Protection Injection make the higher damage of Carrion + Intelligence better. You are correct in saying those kits are made for hybrid damage. To make a point though, I played the build successfully for months as either pure condi or pure power too. Cele being buffed did not suddenly make this build viable. I also understand that you have tried a variety of builds, just not in ranked games where you were trying to win. There’s a difference between liking a build and actually having success with it.

Chaith.8256

I don’t prefer builds that skip both Elixir S and Tool Kit. That’s because a big complaint of mine is that they often succumb to a single immobilize & focus fire. The lack of a block, invuln, and stealth greatly improve the quality of life for 2+ enemies that are interested in sticking to you, and spiking you.

Running with no Elixir S or Toolkit is a good way to underestimate your opponents ability to perform plays that you can’t just pre-emptively counter with great positioning and situational awareness.

I know you don’t. I also won’t try to contend with your experience in tournaments, but you always have to qualify your statements with (2+ people) for why you need to depend on such outs in every build. You are constantly called out in “Engis R OP” posts for using the “but it dies to focus fire argument” because that is literally the case for every build against knowledgeable opponents. Overall, the play style of you and your team is a big factor in this and that makes it pointless to argue.

Chaith.8256

There are times when you get stealth pulled. There are times when you can’t stunbreak and of course not random dodge an instant Doom into Dark Path & condi spam. There are times when Mirror Blade + shatter from stealth happens, and a thief simultaneously hops on you from 1500 distance away, etc.

Of course. When these things successfully land it is devastating, but that is not unique to a certain build or class. There are also other ways of dealing with them than the obvious invuln skill. For example, do I see any engineer play around stealth pulls by using jump shot for either distance or the pull-canceling effect? No.

Chaith.8256

Also the lack of a stealth pull, or pull for that matter, makes it lose a considerable amount of initiating ability.

This is one of the things I hate most. There is no doubt that stealth pulling with the Elixir S toolbelt is strong, because there is such little counterplay available to counter the short setup required and the duration of stealth. It made me sad to watch certain engineers suddenly increase in “ability” and competitive relevance just because they learned how to stealth pull, pry bar, and swap kits in sequence. I understand wanting to take advantage of a broken mechanic to perform better, but I don’t believe this belongs in the PvP of any actually competitive game.

Chaith.8256

Your favorite berserker builds always brought Incendiary Powder, Backpack Regenerator, and Elixir Gun sustain. Can you see how having a ton more condition damage and healing power has made that build undeniably better?

I have never run Backpack Regenerator. Having shorter cooldowns on FT/EG skills and knowing how to properly blast fields results in more relevant burst healing and utility over time.

Chaith.8256

3 Kit Rifle builds just weren’t as good as other builds, pre-cele stats.

Matter of opinion and play style.

Chaith.8256

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

Thanks. Flamethrower did need a buff and I am glad it received a few. Have I been able to beat more players now because of them? No. In fact, the nerf to air blast reduced my ability to reflect and chain-cc someone to death. I do apologize if I come off as smug, but after hearing “your build is not viable” so many times after consistently winning (with every form of the build) and being ranked as one of the top engineers with it, I am starting to question other people’s concept of viable. Especially when I see those same people fail to make full and creative use of all of the skills available to them.

Despite the grammatical errors, I feel like Mr. Rozbuska.5263 summed it up pretty well with his first post.

Well… people here are getting rather condescending so I just thought I’d pop in and say that the reason FT is now meta is because they recently buffed it. Pretty sure your same 3 kit build is now DnT meta because it now has highest pve dps. This was not the case previously.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

I just thought I’d pop in and say that the reason FT is now meta is because they recently buffed it. Pretty sure your same 3 kit build is now DnT meta because it now has highest pve dps. This was not the case previously.

If the only reason it is now meta is due to a single blast finisher (among many), then I stand by my point. A build that was so close to becoming the dominant meta should not have been dismissed so casually before.

bethekey.8314:

I do apologize if I come off as smug, but after hearing “your build is not viable” so many times after consistently winning (with every form of the build) and being ranked as one of the top engineers with it, I am starting to question other people’s concept of viable. Especially when I see those same people fail to make full and creative use of all of the skills available to them.

I just wanna jump on this point, because no one seems to get this.

Chaith is in the Abjured and his competition is the Absurd and maybe a few other teams. “Viable” is a very different word for him. Viable is about being viable against anyone of any skill level in a highly competitive arena even with a few mistakes made AND that there no other build that could do these roles better. Viable to most people is “Can this kill people in Solo, Team or Hot join? K. Viable.” As said by Helseth: “Mesmer isn’t viable. I am viable”. Anthem of the slightly not viable build.

Yeah, I’ve played a build that was 4/6/0/0/4 berserker 100 mines (utility goggles, mine, rifle turret with static discharge) build and dominated in tPvP before. But I would never ever ever ever EVER EVER take that into a tournament. Ever. Idc how many times I’ve killed high ranking players with that build. I don’t care about the many times I’ve team wiped people. It’s not viable in tournaments. When people are actually trying with full teams, it’s easy to jump on me and take me down. A good player can make bad builds viable against a lot of players. That doesn’t mean it’s viable.

It’s fun playing what you want, but don’t get upset if someone calls it not viable. They aren’t calling you an idiot for running it. They aren’t calling you a bad player either. Have you tried condi engi? That kitten is VIABLE. Like wow. It’s so incredibly easy to run. When I’m tired, I run condi engi to steam roll people. I’m not calling the player super good and smart for running it. It’s just a really viable build.

Also, if you truly are a “top engi”, get into a tournament team and prove it. Team Queue is almost meaningless nowadays. Could be random people. Could be lag spikes. Could be AFKers. Could be people testing something new. Could even be people not even trying. Happens all the time. Tournaments is when everyone is REALLY trying to win. That’s when you know where you stand.

I watched your mini guide. The build’s wonky, but you play it well. Refer to the quote from above. The build listed seems to be old, but assuming the skills are the same, I kinda side with Chaith here. That build could be replaced by a better build. You can probably get kills with it, sure, but that doesn’t make it viable.

bethekey.8314:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

I just thought I’d pop in and say that the reason FT is now meta is because they recently buffed it. Pretty sure your same 3 kit build is now DnT meta because it now has highest pve dps. This was not the case previously.

If the only reason it is now meta is due to a single blast finisher (among many), then I stand by my point. A build that was so close to becoming the dominant meta should not have been dismissed so casually before.

that single blast finisher allows us to perma stack 15 party might ideally. all it was before was 2x damage of a bomb auto. with 4 other skills you dont need.

since we have no cd on kit swaps, all we need to change the meta kits is a single skill becoming ridiculously strong to divert our attention away from the previous meta build.

but since you wanna be a hipster, go be a hipster.

bethekey.8314:

Against thieves in particular, weakness is devastating and I NEVER see someone using their healing turret for a weakness blast in an opportune moment. I have some additional pointers if you’re looking for them.

More a matter of preferring to pick up the turret or blast heal which has a 100% success rate, ie: can’t be random dodged by the rolly-polly thieves you’re directly trying to counter. It’s riskier, I don’t prefer it for that reason. If I said that I didn’t want additional pointers, would that actually stop the additional pointers from happening? Evidence would say no

bethekey.8314:

Of course. When these things successfully land it is devastating, but that is not unique to a certain build or class. There are also other ways of dealing with them than the obvious invuln skill. For example, do I see any engineer play around stealth pulls by using jump shot for either distance or the pull-canceling effect? No.

Yeah, the Jump Shot / Acid Bomb pull defense isn’t being missed by Engineers because you aren’t seeing it, watch some Mistpedia 2v2 cups vs. stealth pull happy Engineers.

bethekey.8314:

This is one of the things I hate most. There is no doubt that stealth pulling with the Elixir S toolbelt is strong, because there is such little counterplay available to counter the short setup required and the duration of stealth. It made me sad to watch certain engineers suddenly increase in “ability” and competitive relevance just because they learned how to stealth pull, pry bar, and swap kits in sequence. I understand wanting to take advantage of a broken mechanic to perform better, but I don’t believe this belongs in the PvP of any actually competitive game.

It’s interesting that you go off on a tangent against players that use the abilities on their bars to the fullest, after you look down on every Engineer for failing in that. Okay, Elixir S and Toolkit synergy makes noobs into heroes. Okay, the mechanic is ‘broken’. Well, it is extremely potent, and after having the potent ability to easily catch people off-guard in matches, it redefines what is viable.

You just have a high-horse grudge against stronger builds that are more forgiving, more reliable, less risky, and can function better under counter-pressure. I understand you don’t use what to you is ‘cheese’, but that’s simply because you are a masochist that is under the impression that working twice as hard playing the keybind-piano flawlessly under no-counter pressure situations means that your build is just as efficient or effective as others.

bethekey.8314:

I do not even play Cele with the build normally. Utilizing combos correctly with pseudo-toughness skills like Protection Injection make the higher damage of Carrion + Intelligence better.

How about you post your build? Twitch.tv/woodstockgw2 appears to be only footage of Raid of the Capricorn, and your Youtube channel build is a year old. Share your playstyle if it’s so viable instead of just crapping on players that run meta builds and who are too mechanically bad to use Carrion EG/FT confidently.

bethekey.8314:

I have never run Backpack Regenerator. Having shorter cooldowns on FT/EG skills and knowing how to properly blast fields results in more relevant burst healing and utility over time.

Kudos to you if you can outplay the utility of 7,020-8,340 free healing a minute (berserker and cele respectively) by having 20% recharge reduction on FT/EG. Skipping overpowered, hard to counter options in favor of increasing the skill cap slightly – it’s very manly but not very honest in what’s going to actually to give you the best chance at success.

bethekey.8314:

I do apologize if I come off as smug, but after hearing “your build is not viable” so many times after consistently winning (with every form of the build) and being ranked as one of the top engineers with it, I am starting to question other people’s concept of viable. Especially when I see those same people fail to make full and creative use of all of the skills available to them.

This whole thread is about FT/EG being viable, but it’s only 50% about the build, and 50% a tug to your own peen about how you know all the combos that you guys probably haven’t even heard of huehue.

Perhaps you want to increase the focus on the build, and sell us on what’s so mechanically strong about hybrid Carrion EG/FT/Nade Engineer that makes it better than hybrid Celestial with Backpack Regenerator?

The Gates Assassin.9827

Also, if you truly are a “top engi”, get into a tournament team and prove it. Team Queue is almost meaningless nowadays. Could be random people. Could be lag spikes. Could be AFKers. Could be people testing something new. Could even be people not even trying. Happens all the time. Tournaments is when everyone is REALLY trying to win. That’s when you know where you stand.

I watched your mini guide. The build’s wonky, but you play it well. Refer to the quote from above. The build listed seems to be old, but assuming the skills are the same, I kinda side with Chaith here. That build could be replaced by a better build. You can probably get kills with it, sure, but that doesn’t make it viable.

Gates, the viability of the build is not in question. That is the point of the post. It is about making the naysayers eat crow and giving credit where it is due. As for those videos, yes they are old and from a time when I still wanted to compete in this game. I did play tournaments with the build and it worked very well, even as full berzerker. Here is the current iteration, but honestly it is just about the utilities/amulet/sigils you choose when so many traits are required.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

Chaith, I am sorry this discussion got to the point it did. My bringing you into it was in poor taste.

bethekey.8314:

Here is the current iteration

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

EHHHHH?!

Chaith.8256

bethekey.8314:

Here is the current iteration

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

EHHHHH?!

Pretty good, right?

bethekey.8314:

Chaith.8256

bethekey.8314:

Here is the current iteration

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

EHHHHH?!

Pretty good, right?

Ya. I made some improvements for you, though.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqanUISBWWeFOeBtXGpuQG9rsVDZqrgMQEA-TJBCABAcCAea/BwLDIwDAAA

Chaith.8256:

bethekey.8314:

Chaith.8256

bethekey.8314:

Here is the current iteration

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

EHHHHH?!

Pretty good, right?

Ya. I made some improvements for you, though.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqanUISBWWeFOeBtXGpuQG9rsVDZqrgMQEA-TJBCABAcCAea/BwLDIwDAAA

I literally just burst out laughing. Thank you for making my night. Mortar, AED, Kit Refinement with no kits, packaged stimulants without med kit, three turret traits for mortar, fireforged trigger without FT/EG, rune of the warrior. Comedic gold. Still laughing as I type this.

Awesome.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Chaith.8256:

bethekey.8314:

Chaith.8256

bethekey.8314:

Here is the current iteration

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

EHHHHH?!

Pretty good, right?

Ya. I made some improvements for you, though.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqanUISBWWeFOeBtXGpuQG9rsVDZqrgMQEA-TJBCABAcCAea/BwLDIwDAAA

I literally just burst out laughing. Thank you for making my night. Mortar, AED, Kit Refinement with no kits, packaged stimulants without med kit, three turret traits for mortar, fireforged trigger without FT/EG, rune of the warrior. Comedic gold. Still laughing as I type this.

Awesome.

Ya. There’s a reason that I use 3 traits for Mortar there. Most Engies don’t even know that you can throw a Mortar up on a ledge for allies who can just annihilate everything in a 600 radius.

I’ve had tons of success using this strategy and I’ve been doing this for 2 years so of course it’s viable.

Chaith.8256

Ya. There’s a reason that I use 3 traits for Mortar there. Most Engies don’t even know that you can throw a Mortar up on a ledge for allies who can just annihilate everything in a 600 radius.

I’ve had tons of success using this strategy and I’ve been doing this for 2 years so of course it’s viable.

I don’t know man. Have you played it in any tournaments? And who really knows what “viable” is anyway?

Most engineers prefer to drop mortar at their feet because of the 100% success rate. No rolly-polly invisible walls for it to get stuck on when throwing it. And kudos to you if you can outplay the raw damage and utility offered by Acidic Elixirs.

bethekey.8314:

Chaith.8256

Ya. There’s a reason that I use 3 traits for Mortar there. Most Engies don’t even know that you can throw a Mortar up on a ledge for allies who can just annihilate everything in a 600 radius.

I’ve had tons of success using this strategy and I’ve been doing this for 2 years so of course it’s viable.

I don’t know man. Have you played it in any tournaments? And who really knows what “viable” is anyway?

Most engineers prefer to drop mortar at their feet because of the 100% success rate. No rolly-polly invisible walls for it to get stuck on when throwing it. And kudos to you if you can outplay the raw damage and utility offered by Acidic Elixirs.

Woodstock, the viability of the build is not in question. It was linked by me personally, any further discussion is pointless. It is about making the Mortar naysayers eat crow and giving credit where it is due.

And the cycle is complete.

bethekey.8314:

And the cycle is complete.

Would you actually post your EG/FT Carrion build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpWrlYxdLseRCbBNqxAqJIyN2xPfgAkUA-TZBBwAAOQAu2fAzFAwzDAIcZAA

Funny thing is, the now-banned “tips and tricks” video where I first posted the build was put out exactly a year ago today.

That’s a lot of burning.

Rozbuska.5263:

Meta builds are plague of games. One of reason why I enjoy engi so much from start was there wasnt meta builds for him, there was ton a different builds with different playstyle and all works great. And then meta plague carriers from other classes discover that engi is also great class capable of everythng and ruin all that amazing theorycrafting what happend here before. Now are ppl scare to post their builds because here are builds what someone called meta and present them as only usefull.

very true kitten.

I think it goes about any class like this for pve/pvp. Especially in pvp i would say that diversity is high enough if go out of “meta-box”.

Dear god the kittening contest that this thread became! lol

Hvaran.6327:

Rozbuska.5263:

Meta builds are plague of games. One of reason why I enjoy engi so much from start was there wasnt meta builds for him, there was ton a different builds with different playstyle and all works great. And then meta plague carriers from other classes discover that engi is also great class capable of everythng and ruin all that amazing theorycrafting what happend here before. Now are ppl scare to post their builds because here are builds what someone called meta and present them as only usefull.

very true kitten.

I think it goes about any class like this for pve/pvp. Especially in pvp i would say that diversity is high enough if go out of “meta-box”.

I don’t want to necro a thread like this but… if you’re decent with engineer you can play most builds that aren’t meta and do well in soloq and teamq. Won’t work in tournaments sure, but you can do decent.

Chaith.8256:

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

You’re right about the benefits of TK/ Elixir S vs FT/EG but you’re wrong about the level of viability that the FT/EG has/had.

Fact is FT/EG was nerfed after the original kit refinement change. If we still had the Super Elixir and Flame Blast from using KR, not even the two Cele Eles would be able to hold FT/EG down. The old FT/EG build was borderline OP and if it was still here today, it would actually be OP.
Now fast forward to today and partly due to the fact that I play it myself and I know how much potential it has, it’s a very good build that no one plays because it’s not being played by top teams. It’s not like you can’t play FT/EG/Elixir S or FT/EG/TK which would fill the holes that you think need fixing in FT/EG/Nade builds. And I think you’re not giving it a fair shake because you prefer what you prefer.

Personally, I play FT/EG/Elixir R. Say what you will but I’m loving it.

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

You’re right about the benefits of TK/ Elixir S vs FT/EG but you’re wrong about the level of viability that the FT/EG has/had.

Fact is FT/EG was nerfed after the original kit refinement change. If we still had the Super Elixir and Flame Blast from using KR, not even the two Cele Eles would be able to hold FT/EG down. The old FT/EG build was borderline OP and if it was still here today, it would actually be OP.
Now fast forward to today and partly due to the fact that I play it myself and I know how much potential it has, it’s a very good build that no one plays because it’s not being played by top teams. It’s not like you can’t play FT/EG/Elixir S or FT/EG/TK which would fill the holes that you think need fixing in FT/EG/Nade builds. And I think you’re not giving it a fair shake because you prefer what you prefer.

Personally, I play FT/EG/Elixir R. Say what you will but I’m loving it.

When I say it was never good, I meant it was never good after February 2013, 1.75 years ago. There were so many broken builds then it’s not even funny.

Also, most top Engineers on NA are more open to trying new non-meta preferences than you think. I would say they are even sought out. But the expectations are high, the build has to be optimal in scenarios which the Engineer can reliably create in a conquest game against dangerous opponents. Not merely being able to function decently.

I really think that EG/FT are well rounded, moderate damage tools, suited to might stacking and bringing minor utilty. Versus more focused and dangerous opponents, the utility of stealths, blocks, invulns, and stealth pulls scales extremely high. Or the utility of a 4-6s knockdown and Super Speed’s crazy in-combat slipperiness. In life or death situations, I feel the utility that EG/FT provides, which is supposed to be the specialty, – it’s lacking in potency.

Chaith.8256:

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

You’re right about the benefits of TK/ Elixir S vs FT/EG but you’re wrong about the level of viability that the FT/EG has/had.

Fact is FT/EG was nerfed after the original kit refinement change. If we still had the Super Elixir and Flame Blast from using KR, not even the two Cele Eles would be able to hold FT/EG down. The old FT/EG build was borderline OP and if it was still here today, it would actually be OP.
Now fast forward to today and partly due to the fact that I play it myself and I know how much potential it has, it’s a very good build that no one plays because it’s not being played by top teams. It’s not like you can’t play FT/EG/Elixir S or FT/EG/TK which would fill the holes that you think need fixing in FT/EG/Nade builds. And I think you’re not giving it a fair shake because you prefer what you prefer.

Personally, I play FT/EG/Elixir R. Say what you will but I’m loving it.

When I say it was never good, I meant it was never good after February 2013, 1.75 years ago. There were so many broken builds then it’s not even funny.

Also, most top Engineers on NA are more open to trying new non-meta preferences than you think. I would say they are even sought out. But the expectations are high, the build has to be optimal in scenarios which the Engineer can reliably create in a conquest game against dangerous opponents. Not merely being able to function decently.

I really think that EG/FT are well rounded, moderate damage tools, suited to might stacking and bringing minor utilty. Versus more focused and dangerous opponents, the utility of stealths, blocks, invulns, and stealth pulls scales extremely high. Or the utility of a 4-6s knockdown and Super Speed’s crazy in-combat slipperiness. In life or death situations, I feel the utility that EG/FT provides, which is supposed to be the specialty, – it’s lacking in potency.

I’m definitely not denying the power of stealths and blocks. I would run the same build everyone is running if I wasn’t so hipster.

Then again, the reason I started playing FT/EG primarily is because of the increase in Warriors and it’s potency against S/D thieves. I found it easier to deal with both those classes with this spec than any other. But now that changes to the Warrior and S/D have happened, my choice may be outdated now so I might have to re-evaluate my stance.

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

You’re right about the benefits of TK/ Elixir S vs FT/EG but you’re wrong about the level of viability that the FT/EG has/had.

Fact is FT/EG was nerfed after the original kit refinement change. If we still had the Super Elixir and Flame Blast from using KR, not even the two Cele Eles would be able to hold FT/EG down. The old FT/EG build was borderline OP and if it was still here today, it would actually be OP.
Now fast forward to today and partly due to the fact that I play it myself and I know how much potential it has, it’s a very good build that no one plays because it’s not being played by top teams. It’s not like you can’t play FT/EG/Elixir S or FT/EG/TK which would fill the holes that you think need fixing in FT/EG/Nade builds. And I think you’re not giving it a fair shake because you prefer what you prefer.

Personally, I play FT/EG/Elixir R. Say what you will but I’m loving it.

When I say it was never good, I meant it was never good after February 2013, 1.75 years ago. There were so many broken builds then it’s not even funny.

Also, most top Engineers on NA are more open to trying new non-meta preferences than you think. I would say they are even sought out. But the expectations are high, the build has to be optimal in scenarios which the Engineer can reliably create in a conquest game against dangerous opponents. Not merely being able to function decently.

I really think that EG/FT are well rounded, moderate damage tools, suited to might stacking and bringing minor utilty. Versus more focused and dangerous opponents, the utility of stealths, blocks, invulns, and stealth pulls scales extremely high. Or the utility of a 4-6s knockdown and Super Speed’s crazy in-combat slipperiness. In life or death situations, I feel the utility that EG/FT provides, which is supposed to be the specialty, – it’s lacking in potency.

I’m definitely not denying the power of stealths and blocks. I would run the same build everyone is running if I wasn’t so hipster.

Then again, the reason I started playing FT/EG primarily is because of the increase in Warriors and it’s potency against S/D thieves. I found it easier to deal with both those classes with this spec than any other. But now that changes to the Warrior and S/D have happened, my choice may be outdated now so I might have to re-evaluate my stance.

(Select) Warriors and Thieves are going to have a bad day against an Engi of any build. If you’re hip, and still want to compete, equipping Bomb kit instead of Tool Kit, or Slick Shoes instead of Elixir S are cool.

Chaith.8256:

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

You’re right about the benefits of TK/ Elixir S vs FT/EG but you’re wrong about the level of viability that the FT/EG has/had.

Fact is FT/EG was nerfed after the original kit refinement change. If we still had the Super Elixir and Flame Blast from using KR, not even the two Cele Eles would be able to hold FT/EG down. The old FT/EG build was borderline OP and if it was still here today, it would actually be OP.
Now fast forward to today and partly due to the fact that I play it myself and I know how much potential it has, it’s a very good build that no one plays because it’s not being played by top teams. It’s not like you can’t play FT/EG/Elixir S or FT/EG/TK which would fill the holes that you think need fixing in FT/EG/Nade builds. And I think you’re not giving it a fair shake because you prefer what you prefer.

Personally, I play FT/EG/Elixir R. Say what you will but I’m loving it.

When I say it was never good, I meant it was never good after February 2013, 1.75 years ago. There were so many broken builds then it’s not even funny.

Also, most top Engineers on NA are more open to trying new non-meta preferences than you think. I would say they are even sought out. But the expectations are high, the build has to be optimal in scenarios which the Engineer can reliably create in a conquest game against dangerous opponents. Not merely being able to function decently.

I really think that EG/FT are well rounded, moderate damage tools, suited to might stacking and bringing minor utilty. Versus more focused and dangerous opponents, the utility of stealths, blocks, invulns, and stealth pulls scales extremely high. Or the utility of a 4-6s knockdown and Super Speed’s crazy in-combat slipperiness. In life or death situations, I feel the utility that EG/FT provides, which is supposed to be the specialty, – it’s lacking in potency.

I’m definitely not denying the power of stealths and blocks. I would run the same build everyone is running if I wasn’t so hipster.

Then again, the reason I started playing FT/EG primarily is because of the increase in Warriors and it’s potency against S/D thieves. I found it easier to deal with both those classes with this spec than any other. But now that changes to the Warrior and S/D have happened, my choice may be outdated now so I might have to re-evaluate my stance.

Warriors and Thieves are going to have a bad day against an Engi of any build. If you’re hip, and still want to compete, equipping Bomb kit instead of Tool Kit, or Slick Shoes instead of Elixir S are cool.

Hehe, been there, done that. I am subscribed to a different class of cool.

Dirame.8521

Then again, the reason I started playing FT/EG primarily is because of the increase in Warriors and it’s potency against S/D thieves. I found it easier to deal with both those classes with this spec than any other. But now that changes to the Warrior and S/D have happened, my choice may be outdated now so I might have to re-evaluate my stance.

Build is not outdated. If anything, it is stronger than it was before.

bethekey.8314:

Dirame.8521

Then again, the reason I started playing FT/EG primarily is because of the increase in Warriors and it’s potency against S/D thieves. I found it easier to deal with both those classes with this spec than any other. But now that changes to the Warrior and S/D have happened, my choice may be outdated now so I might have to re-evaluate my stance.

Build is not outdated. If anything, it is stronger than it was before.

Why do you think it’s stronger?

Dirame.8521:

bethekey.8314:

Dirame.8521

Then again, the reason I started playing FT/EG primarily is because of the increase in Warriors and it’s potency against S/D thieves. I found it easier to deal with both those classes with this spec than any other. But now that changes to the Warrior and S/D have happened, my choice may be outdated now so I might have to re-evaluate my stance.

Build is not outdated. If anything, it is stronger than it was before.

Why do you think it’s stronger?

The buff to the FT auto attack for one. The flame blast changes

Shaogin.2679:

Dear god the kittening contest that this thread became! lol

Welcome to the engineer forums.

Edit: Removed content for better explained post below.

bethekey.8314:

I find it laughable that the meta build in pve is now what I have been using for over a year, without others catching on. It’s even viable in pvp! I’ve achieved top 20 ranks in both team and solo pvp with a ft/eg/nades build and it’s not even hard. Just learn to utilize blast finishers every time you use one. Even the “top” engis like backpack or chaith fail to capitalize on this when I watch them.

Just to clarify something: the meta includes the flamethrower again, but it is hardly the old FT/EG standalone two-kit build before the Juggernaut and Kit Refinement nerfs. You’re still supposed to use grenades most of the time for stacking vulnerability; the only thing that’s really changed from the old meta is that the flamethrower has replaced the bomb kit for the fire field and blast finisher.

The original FT/EG build was a part of the meta when Cursed Shore, not dungeons, was the primary farming space. It was a tanky setup at a time when everyone ranged Lupicus, when guardians ran Altruistic Healing, and when FOTM 40+ was done only through bugging the instance.

And then it got nerfed. It really began its death spiral when Juggernaut was reworked, but Kit Refinement being overhauled was the key point we all point to as the FT being a waste of a slot.

And then they fixed Flame Blast’s double detonation.

And then they nerfed Incendiary Powder.

And then they buffed the bomb kit, which is when we finally jumped ship and reworked the FT/EG build and the grenade kit build into what is currently the meta setup of the BK/FT + GK + EG. I kept curating the build and trying to keep it as a part of the meta, but that was in large part out of saving the effort of my own work. I stopped using the FT/EG build after the dungeon and fractal overhauls, and after the fast-cast fix—as anyone should have.

If you kept using it all this time, then you actually were running a bad build. By the end of 2012 most dungeons were on farm status and everyone stopped farming Cursed Shore. And by the middle of 2013 the grenade kit became the primary PvE kit.

To suggest the FT/EG has always been viable or that it is being played the same as it used to is an egregious misunderstanding of what the original build’s intention was and how it compares now. I would personally argue that the bomb kit is still a better might-blasting option for PvE, but that’s another topic entirely.

I have no idea how it performs in PvP because I just came back to GW2 after four months in ArcheAge and everything is really different.

Phineas Poe.3018:

bethekey.8314:

I find it laughable that the meta build in pve is now what I have been using for over a year, without others catching on. It’s even viable in pvp! I’ve achieved top 20 ranks in both team and solo pvp with a ft/eg/nades build and it’s not even hard. Just learn to utilize blast finishers every time you use one. Even the “top” engis like backpack or chaith fail to capitalize on this when I watch them.

Just to clarify something: the meta includes the flamethrower again, but it is hardly the old FT/EG standalone two-kit build before the Juggernaut and Kit Refinement nerfs. You’re still supposed to use grenades most of the time for stacking vulnerability; the only thing that’s really changed from the old meta is that the flamethrower has replaced the bomb kit for the fire field and blast finisher.

The original FT/EG build was a part of the meta when Cursed Shore, not dungeons, was the primary farming space. It was a tanky setup at a time when everyone ranged Lupicus, when guardians ran Altruistic Healing, and when FOTM 40+ was done only through bugging the instance.

And then it got nerfed. It really began its death spiral when Juggernaut was reworked, but Kit Refinement being overhauled was the key point we all point to as the FT being a waste of a slot.

And then they fixed Flame Blast’s double detonation.

And then they nerfed Incendiary Powder.

And then they buffed the bomb kit, which is when we finally jumped ship and reworked the FT/EG build and the grenade kit build into what is currently the meta setup of the BK/FT + GK + EG. I kept curating the build and trying to keep it as a part of the meta, but that was in large part out of saving the effort of my own work. I stopped using the FT/EG build after the dungeon and fractal overhauls, and after the fast-cast fix—as anyone should have.

If you kept using it all this time, then you actually were running a bad build.

To suggest the FT/EG has always been viable or that it is being played the same as it used to is an egregious misunderstanding of what the original build’s intention was and how it compares now. I would personally argue that the bomb kit is still a better might-blasting option for PvE, but that’s another topic entirely.

I have no idea how it performs in PvP because I just came back to GW2 after four months in ArcheAge and everything is really different.

Yeah I think Woodstock’s claims mostly refer to PvP, as I don’t have any knowledge about his PvE adventures.

Chaith.8256

Yeah I think Woodstock’s claims mostly refer to PvP, as I don’t have any knowledge about his PvE adventures.

Bingo. I do not claim to be an expert in defeating scripted enemies.

Then I suggest refraining from making comments like…

bethekey.8314:

I find it laughable that the meta build in pve is now what I have been using for over a year, without others catching on.

…Because all it does is make you look smug and misinformed. Stick to talking about PvP if that’s what you’re familiar with, if you’re going to walk around acting like we failed to “catch onto” something when in reality the flamethrower just sucked balls for 14 months and was patched in August.

The original post was hastily written and while I would rewrite it, the overall message would remain the same.

I do not claim to be an expert in defeating scripted enemies.

But

If the only reason it is now meta is due to a single blast finisher (among many), then I stand by my point. A build that was so close to becoming the dominant meta should not have been dismissed so casually before.

Please excuse my low opinion of PvE though, I should expect more from an area where builds are only evaluated for dps potential and auto-attacking in bomb kit is a valid strategy.