Guild Wars 2

I run with a friend who is an engineer and he has been killing him self a lot lately. The last time he died was tonight, we fighting a ranger when my engineer buddy fell over dead from retaliation. Their was no one else around, after I rezed him we stayed their for about 5 minuets looking at the combat log etc.

Even fighting a champ the other day he went down to retaliation when he was in a downed state doing nothing but waiting for my stupid pet to rez him.

What weapon/kit was he using? Retal tends to be quite hurtful against engineers, as we have kits (FT/Nade) that hits multiple times per attack, causing us to take a lot more damage than others.

i can confirm the same issue,but i know from where it comes from in my case.

I use a power/crit dmg setup with pistol+shield (i only have 15/16k hp).I use the Coated bullet trait that pierce hitting multiple targets and also make double explosion at max range.

In WvW 3 single pistol shot to an enemy zerg , and i usually lose 15k hp(i’m dead) without even being hitted once from the enemy. Only retaliation.

I also experience problem in PvE as well , with bosses who use retaliation.

Check if your friend is using a pistol in main hand with coated bullet as trait OR as already told ,check if he use flametrhower .

Also ( and that’s a news for me) turrets take dmg from retaliation.But on this i’d prefer a confirm from someone else.

He uses two pistols and runs masks build, although he tried something new tonight and took nades although changed nothing else. The issue here is it was from a ranger and us ranger types do not get retal.

Edit:
On a side note do you have a link to your engineer build Nirvana? May have a second engineer joining us soon and might be nice not to have all condition builds.

Sorry i have no link , but i can describe it.

I use full knight gear + 6 ruby orb on it (power+ prec+ 2% crit dmg).
All jewels ascendent with power/toughness/crit dmg.

trait: 10/30/0/0/30
-explosives : incendiary powder
-firearms : hair trigger ; rifled barrels ;coated bullet
-tools : static discharge ; speedy kit ; adrenal implant

Weapons : all berserkers pistol(sigil of fire)/shield(sigil of bloodlust) .
To play it properly use a rifle : change only the firearms traits for “rifled mod” and “sitting duck” or play with traits.

As utility i use :
- net turret (an anti-thieves measure that works more than fine , also elementalist are in trouble with it) ;
- tool kit (second block + belt skill)
-rifle turret (belt skill only i never deploy it cause it’s useless , go for rocket turret if u like deploy things ;D) .

The damage is hight,the survive ability is low , but is an “easy to play” build .

Thank you Nirvana!

Now if we can figure out why his retaliation is killing him!

with retaliation Flamethrower kills you in seconds its stupid…

Dante.1508:

with retaliation Flamethrower kills you in seconds its stupid…

I love how you take more damage from retaliation per hit than you dish out with the flame thrower. Also if you take the pistol piercing trait it’s the same thing you just nuke yourself.

Dante.1508:

with retaliation Flamethrower kills you in seconds its stupid…

Only ppl with berserker gear that doesnt monitor their health. With FT your mostly at melee range so gear up that in mind and once you take too much retaliation dmg stop spamming #1, change target’s,heal up and repeat.

It doesn’t really matter if you are monitoring your health. You are downed in seconds or less.

It is kind of ridiculous that retaliation hits harder than the flamethrower.

I must admit, as someone who uses the flamethrower and pistol with coated bullets a lot, retaliation is the bane of my existence.

Any idea why his retaliation would be killing him? Only thing we can think of, since rangers do not get retaliation. Was a norn ranger and their racial s do not give retal that I know of. Also seemed that dots were procing retal.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

It doesn’t really matter if you are monitoring your health. You are downed in seconds or less.

It is kind of ridiculous that retaliation hits harder than the flamethrower.

I must admit, as someone who uses the flamethrower and pistol with coated bullets a lot, retaliation is the bane of my existence.

If your dying that fast then you aren’t paying attention or the dmg isn’t coming for retaliation sure FT probably suffers from retaliation more than most other weapons but it’s not as bad as u make it sound.

Cato.3547:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

It doesn’t really matter if you are monitoring your health. You are downed in seconds or less.

It is kind of ridiculous that retaliation hits harder than the flamethrower.

I must admit, as someone who uses the flamethrower and pistol with coated bullets a lot, retaliation is the bane of my existence.

If your dying that fast then you aren’t paying attention or the dmg isn’t coming for retaliation sure FT probably suffers from retaliation more than most other weapons but it’s not as bad as u make it sound.

high powered players will do about 350 damage per retaliation tick

so lets see

10×350= 3500 damage

however if fighting multiple enemies or a mesmer

10×350×2=7000
10×350×3=10500 (FT is capped to 3 targets)

in the case of coated bullets

2×350×10=7000 in one shot

grenades

can hit up to 5 targets at once (then again im not sure if its up to 5 targets per grenade)

3×350×5=7500

and here’s the topping Retaliation procs confusion so gg if engineer ends up with confusion and hits a retaliation target

Yeah, but all that is retaliation working as intended. Sucks, but doesn’t indicate retaliation is broken.

Eviator.9746:

Yeah, but all that is retaliation working as intended. Sucks, but doesn’t indicate retaliation is broken.

true it just shows retaliation is a hard counter against engis

Combined with the number of hits we can do against a zerg per unit of time in many of our builds, you might be right.

There is indeed something amist here with us taking retaliation damage out of nowhere.
I was playing a few tournaments last night and ended up dying. Once I revived I ran out the gate [2s after revive] and took two hits of retal damage out of nowhere.
This was the only time i’ve ever experienced this so not sure why it happened.

Brinson.7289:

There is indeed something amist here with us taking retaliation damage out of nowhere.
I was playing a few tournaments last night and ended up dying. Once I revived I ran out the gate [2s after revive] and took two hits of retal damage out of nowhere.
This was the only time i’ve ever experienced this so not sure why it happened.

dropped mines from trait maybe?

U see retaliation on screen like confusion. Additional retaliation dmg in wvw is reduced to the half. I am preaty sure he was not killed by retaliation from a ranger. But for sure through conditions which are also not shown in combatlog. Anyway – an engineer should never got killed by a ranger… that confuses me the most because u were additional 2 vs 1?!

Cato.3547:

Dante.1508:

with retaliation Flamethrower kills you in seconds its stupid…

Only ppl with berserker gear that doesnt monitor their health. With FT your mostly at melee range so gear up that in mind and once you take too much retaliation dmg stop spamming #1, change target’s,heal up and repeat.

I used Knights gear thanks and it still kills me in seconds..i’m like 2/3 dead by the time i ditch FT kit

Dante.1508:

Cato.3547:

Dante.1508:

with retaliation Flamethrower kills you in seconds its stupid…

Only ppl with berserker gear that doesnt monitor their health. With FT your mostly at melee range so gear up that in mind and once you take too much retaliation dmg stop spamming #1, change target’s,heal up and repeat.

I used Knights gear thanks and it still kills me in seconds..i’m like 2/3 dead by the time i ditch FT kit

toughness doesnt affect the retaliation damage you take so yeh you’re dead if you use FT or nades against a high strength retal player.

Eviator.9746:

Yeah, but all that is retaliation working as intended. Sucks, but doesn’t indicate retaliation is broken.

Yeah, but the problem is exactly how it works. As it isn’t based on the damage of the attack, but merely on the power of the attacker. Even if the power is high, if the skill itself has weak coefficents per hit, you get these ridiculous results. As in, you get more damage than the one you dealt.
After all, where is the convenience of having multi-hit autoattacks? It made sense when things like crit foods had no cooldown, but when almost everything is locked via cooldowns, there aren’t many advantages. Basically, we’ve got just two traits to use them with – a minor an a major one, who are based on a chance on crit, to do bleeding and vulnerability. And both of these effects are better dealt with grenades.

retal is broken against some skills. It’s just not right that you are not allowed to use some skills because you instant kill yourself.
AreaNet needs to make some special factor for certain skills like grenades/flamethrower and ranger barrage.
Just put a 20% modifier for retaliation there and its fine. Leave it for all other skills as retaliation is ok except against certain skills that proc it alot too much.
So: 20% modifier means only every 5th hit procs retal for these few skills or the dmg is divided by 5.
Problem solved without messing too much with retal and without having the need to change the way the skills work.

Forestnator.6298:

U see retaliation on screen like confusion. Additional retaliation dmg in wvw is reduced to the half. I am preaty sure he was not killed by retaliation from a ranger. But for sure through conditions which are also not shown in combatlog. Anyway – an engineer should never got killed by a ranger… that confuses me the most because u were additional 2 vs 1?!

It defiantly was not from condition damage. It went like this we came out of the water, saw the ranger just finish killing the guard by garrison. I stunned the ranger, engineer nade barraged the ranger, engineer went boom from retal. I killed said ranger with no retal damage. Rezed engineer and then we stood their for a few minuets so the guard would spawn and we could flip. No other players in the area.

Although I have to agree it is pretty stupid that the combat log does not record condition damage or heal info.

hehe.. ehh...

just yesterday, after being brow beat on the forums, I logged onto my engi to see if it was as bad as I remembered.

I charged into WvW, and pwned a moa or two as I made my way to the ogre camp. I dropped a water turret, and was amazed by how horrible it was at healing me. I switched to elixirgun and dropped a healing field....

As I recalled the glory of the old kit refinement/elixirgun combo, I said a silent prayer that the lead dev be afflicted with itchy hemorrhoids.

As I continued my flamethrower based assault against the ogres, a guardian ran by and popped retaliation for himself and his ogre friends, and I died, almost instantly.

I then logged off my engineer safe with the knowledge that I’m right, the forums are full of A-net employees and wannabes that will defend anything, and that playing the engineer class is less fun than being a lead dev with a bad case of itchy hemorrhoids.

Ezeriel.9574:

hehe.. ehh…

just yesterday, after being brow beat on the forums, I logged onto my engi to see if it was as bad as I remembered.

I charged into WvW, and pwned a moa or two as I made my way to the ogre camp. I dropped a water turret, and was amazed by how horrible it was at healing me. I switched to elixirgun and dropped a healing field….

As I recalled the glory of the old kit refinement/elixirgun combo, I said a silent prayer that the lead dev be afflicted with itchy hemorrhoids.

As I continued my flamethrower based assault against the ogres, a guardian ran by and popped retaliation for himself and his ogre friends, and I died, almost instantly.

I then logged off my engineer safe with the knowledge that I’m right, the forums are full of A-net employees and wannabes that will defend anything, and that playing the engineer class is less fun than being a lead dev with a bad case of itchy hemorrhoids.

I might be a really bad Engi player, i’m fine with that really..

But this post is pure win to me 100% how i feel about the class too..

Arpheus.6918:

retal is broken against some skills. It’s just not right that you are not allowed to use some skills because you instant kill yourself.
AreaNet needs to make some special factor for certain skills like grenades/flamethrower and ranger barrage.
Just put a 20% modifier for retaliation there and its fine. Leave it for all other skills as retaliation is ok except against certain skills that proc it alot too much.
So: 20% modifier means only every 5th hit procs retal for these few skills or the dmg is divided by 5.
Problem solved without messing too much with retal and without having the need to change the way the skills work.

Yes this, as much as I want to play with flamethrower in wvw, its pretty stupid how it can end up killing you instead. Its funny how the flamethrowers biggest strength is also its biggest weakness, too bad its weakness seems to outweight its strength.