Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

in Engineer

Posted by: ErazorZ.5209

ErazorZ.5209

I mean they still give massive AoE and AoE stuns/knockback with almost no cooldowns so they can perma knockback.

Can anyone enlighten me on how this is fun or balanced when you simply cant do anything cuz some random engi scrub just spams turrets everywhere and knockbacks you constantly?…

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: Dimes.6024

Dimes.6024

kitten random engis!

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

120 range ….. 120 range…. dude Just stay some pixel away from the turret and you are save.

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: ErazorZ.5209

ErazorZ.5209

120 range ….. 120 range…. dude Just stay some pixel away from the turret and you are save.

sadly the remote area of a cappoint in pvp is literally enough for an engi to cover it entirly with turrets

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

Ohh well then he knockbacks you. A necro is able to fear you 4 times in a row. A warrior is able to chainstun you and a mesmer is able to daze you for ever.

CC happens

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: Rozbuska.5263

Rozbuska.5263

There is that boon you know.. Stability or how they call it:-P

Tekkit Mojo – Engineer
Tekkit’s Workshop

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Posted by: vincecontix.1264

vincecontix.1264

There is that boon you know.. Stability or how they call it:-P

Yea I heard that boon is pretty strong shame people don’t seem to know about it. Its also common knowlege engi is very weak against conditions, cc and focus fire. Maybe its time for engi to get these things addressed aka buff them.

Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: Anymras.5729

Anymras.5729

I mean they still give massive AoE and AoE stuns/knockback with almost no cooldowns so they can perma knockback.

Can anyone enlighten me on how this is fun or balanced when you simply cant do anything cuz some random engi scrub just spams turrets everywhere and knockbacks you constantly?…

Almost no cooldowns? Yeah, sorry, Turret cooldowns are 20, 20, 25, 30, 50 and 50, with the only way to reduce said cooldown being ‘pick them up for a 25% reduction,’ which prevents them from using them for the knockback. They’re also halving the knockback radius, so if you’re not approaching melee range, you’re not going to get knocked back anyway. Accelerant-Packed Turrets is currently a more effective crowd-control tool than it was intended to be, and they’re taking steps to resolve it.

In short: Perma-knockback? Hah. Especially after the patch. Of course, there’ll probably still be a lot of complaints about other classes with chained CC effects.

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

I mean they still give massive AoE and AoE stuns/knockback with almost no cooldowns so they can perma knockback.

Can anyone enlighten me on how this is fun or balanced when you simply cant do anything cuz some random engi scrub just spams turrets everywhere and knockbacks you constantly?…

Almost no cooldowns? Yeah, sorry, Turret cooldowns are 20, 20, 25, 30, 50 and 50, with the only way to reduce said cooldown being ‘pick them up for a 25% reduction,’ which prevents them from using them for the knockback. They’re also halving the knockback radius, so if you’re not approaching melee range, you’re not going to get knocked back anyway. Accelerant-Packed Turrets is currently a more effective crowd-control tool than it was intended to be, and they’re taking steps to resolve it.

In short: Perma-knockback? Hah. Especially after the patch. Of course, there’ll probably still be a lot of complaints about other classes with chained CC effects.

And what’s the uptime on stability? Because on my main the only options I have is six seconds of stability every sixty seconds or three seconds every eleven on a trait that ruins other utility and takes much more interesting options away from my build. On my primary alt my only option are two 120 second elites or a grandmaster trait in a full tank tree. How does that compare to three knockbacks every twenty seconds?

(edited by Conncept.7638)

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

Umm, you guys are aware that they announced a nerf to turrets knock back already right?

Seems a little odd to complain that something needs a nerf almost a month after they already announced a nerf.

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Posted by: Anymras.5729

Anymras.5729

@ Conncept
Yeah, ‘cause I was totally going to get into the math of ’so how does that compare to stability uptime,’ with my complete and utter lack of mention of stability to begin with. Seriously? You pick me to quote when you ask that? I’m not bothering with the math of that nonsense.
If we’re going to do this, it doesn’t matter, to my mind, how they compare to the uptime of stability, because a half-wit can look at your boon bar and only use the knockbacks when you don’t have it up, just as you should only actively be using Stability-granting effects when you’re expecting the knockbacks or can’t afford them to happen.
If it’s a passive effect, they should try to either not trigger it or try to trigger it when they want it triggered.
It’s play, counterplay, and counter-counter-play. A hard-counter to an effect says ’don’t bother with that while this is active, it would be a waste,’ and a player with one drunken brain cell rattling around the echo chamber of infinity can put that much together.
Or – OR – they could just use Throw Mine, our only natively boon-stripping skill pair, which fits just fine into Turret builds and can offer the second-lowest-cooldown knockback available to the Engineer class, when traited. With proper traiting (using a whole 6 points on three Adept traits!), an Engineer could easily have knockbacks on 12, 14.5, and three on 20-second cooldowns. But it’s never a rifle/gadget/turret hybrid with an actual knockback/control gimmick, it’s always just ‘turrets beat me up! waaah.’
How’s five knockbacks in a 20-second period compare to the theoretical uptime of stability? I don’t even know. Or care. I’m fairly certain it would be an incredibly irritating build, though!

Maybe you should’ve asked one of the people who’re recommending Stability instead of the guy going ‘they don’t have almost no cooldown, and they’re reducing the knockback radius to nearly melee range anyway.’ I said what I meant to say, and I didn’t talk about things I didn’t (and still don’t, really, considering that I avoid going into PvP at all) think I should be talking about.
Somebody wanted to use hyperbole, I pointed out that it was nonsense. Don’t bother me about uptimes.

For the curious: This is a slightly more fleshed-out version of the build I mentioned with the constant knockback availability; I’m sure I haven’t made the best choices in traits/sigils/runes/gear, so feel free to take everything beyond Adept tier traiting, skill choices and weapon choice with a grain of salt.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpmqdZxxLseNSbBN6v8mZDyMMiP+gAA-TByAwAHV+B4CAMRJYO1fC8AAUpDQh5vZ7PQKgRFGB-e

(edited by Anymras.5729)

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

@ Conncept
Yeah, ‘cause I was totally going to get into the math of ’so how does that compare to stability uptime,’ with my complete and utter lack of mention of stability to begin with. Seriously? You pick me to quote when you ask that? I’m not bothering with the math of that nonsense.
If we’re going to do this, it doesn’t matter, to my mind, how they compare to the uptime of stability, because a half-wit can look at your boon bar and only use the knockbacks when you don’t have it up, just as you should only actively be using Stability-granting effects when you’re expecting the knockbacks or can’t afford them to happen.
If it’s a passive effect, they should try to either not trigger it or try to trigger it when they want it triggered.
It’s play, counterplay, and counter-counter-play. A hard-counter to an effect says ’don’t bother with that while this is active, it would be a waste,’ and a player with one drunken brain cell rattling around the echo chamber of infinity can put that much together.
Or – OR – they could just use Throw Mine, our only natively boon-stripping skill pair, which fits just fine into Turret builds and can offer the second-lowest-cooldown knockback available to the Engineer class, when traited. With proper traiting (using a whole 6 points on three Adept traits!), an Engineer could easily have knockbacks on 12, 14.5, and three on 20-second cooldowns. But it’s never a rifle/gadget/turret hybrid with an actual knockback/control gimmick, it’s always just ‘turrets beat me up! waaah.’
How’s five knockbacks in a 20-second period compare to the theoretical uptime of stability? I don’t even know. Or care. I’m fairly certain it would be an incredibly irritating build, though!

Maybe you should’ve asked one of the people who’re recommending Stability instead of the guy going ‘they don’t have almost no cooldown, and they’re reducing the knockback radius to nearly melee range anyway.’ I said what I meant to say, and I didn’t talk about things I didn’t (and still don’t, really, considering that I avoid going into PvP at all) think I should be talking about.
Somebody wanted to use hyperbole, I pointed out that it was nonsense. Don’t bother me about uptimes.

You don’t know what hyperbole means do you? Hyperbole is exaggerated, was there any exaggeration in my math? No, there was not. Advice for the future, use vocabulary you actually know.

What does it matter it matter whether you addressed stability? I addressed stability because everything in your post had already been addressed in previous posts, which you would know if you had read through the thread before posting, and the argument you were providing was “It isn’t bad, for no reason in particular”. So I addressed your ambiguity with the only reason left, also illegitamite.

The positioning and radius of the knockbacks are moot points, as they are more than large enough to cover the average point without any room to avoid them. The trait investment is also a completely pointless addition to the argument, as are the weapon skills mentioned, because the weapon skills are not what push you an extra three knockbacks over normal, the traits investment is.

And most importantly, the cooldowns and uptime, which you did mention, are completely pointless so long as the only counter to them has a significantly lower uptime, which is what I stated.

I don’t give a crap whether you addressed stability. And if you really “don’t care”, why did you post in the first place? And why did you get your giblets in such a twist from being responded to?

(edited by Conncept.7638)

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

After reading through this thread there doesn’t actually seem to be any problem.

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

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Posted by: Anymras.5729

Anymras.5729

/snip

You don’t know what hyperbole means do you? Hyperbole is exaggerated, was there any exaggeration in my math? No, there was not. Advice for the future, use vocabulary you actually know.

What does it matter it matter whether you addressed stability? I addressed stability because everything in your post had already been addressed in previous posts, which you would know if you had read through the thread before posting, and the argument you were providing was “It isn’t bad, for no reason in particular”. So I addressed your ambiguity with the only reason left, also illegitamite.

The positioning and radius of the knockbacks are moot points, as they are more than large enough to cover the average point without any room to avoid them. The trait investment is also a completely pointless addition to the argument, as are the weapon skills mentioned, because the weapon skills are not what push you an extra three knockbacks over normal, the traits investment is.

And most importantly, the cooldowns and uptime, which you did mention, are completely pointless so long as the only counter to them has a significantly lower uptime, which is what I stated.

I don’t give a crap whether you addressed stability. And if you really “don’t care”, why did you post in the first place? And why did you get your giblets in such a twist from being responded to?

Yes, I do know what ‘hyperbole’ means, and I wasn’t accusing you of it, but rather the original poster. My last lines weren’t meant to be a summary of my response to you, if that’s what you took them as. Somebody says ‘almost no cooldowns,’ and ‘permaknockback,’ I’m going to point out that there’s not really such a thing available to Turrets, at least.

I’m still lost on why you pick the one person who didn’t mention stability, who was talking about cooldowns instead (which actually hadn’t been mentioned by anyone else, as far as I can tell). The nerf, yes, people had mentioned. So? People repeat points all the time. It’d be nice if every single thing said were unique, but that’s not likely to happen. Why not ask one of the people who did mention stability? Could’ve asked them how cooldowns compared to stability uptime. Odds are, they’ve put more thought into it than I have, as my thought line about stability mostly goes ‘I only have that on a handful of skills and like none of them.’ I hadn’t noticed you actually state anything, aside from numbers about how long you can have stability and an opinion about how it screws up your offensives and prevents you from getting some of the ‘more interesting’ options.
I’m not going to make a crack about vocabulary. I am, however, still going to suggest you direct that question to somebody who actually concerns themselves with stability.

The bit about the other build thing? That was completely off-topic, and both of us know it. Let’s not bother.

The only reason I replied to the OP is…I like Turrets. I do. Period. I’ve liked them since before Day 1. They were part of the reason I bought the game – and they suck most places in the game besides sPvP, where the only game mode is exactly what turrets are good for: Holding a point. I don’t want them getting nerfed in the rest of the game, where they’re not particularly good, because they’re actually good at what they’re designed for in a mode that disproportionately rewards their area-denial design. APT being tuned down is perfectly understandable (it did get changed from Master to Adept and left otherwise unaltered, as far as I can recall) and I really dislike the idea of nerfing the skillset further because people keep complaining and making claims about permaknockback. They’re not a very effective skillset to begin with, much to my chagrin, except in a mode that I’ve never had any interest in; even in PvE, there are some areas where fully-traited Turrets can be destroyed in a single blow from a regular mook, and in the newest areas, the emphasis on positioning pretty much leaves them useless except for the Healing Turret.
My giblets being in a twist actually had nothing to do with you, and I suppose I should apologize for the vehemence of my response. Sorry about that. Happens sometimes, despite my best efforts to the contrary.