Guild Wars 2

So… this patch changed its functionality to:

Med Kit- 2s Magnetic Shield

Flamethrower- 4s Flame Aura

Toolkit- 2s Super Speed (only speeds up in combat, wiki says it should boost by 200% but the speed is still capped at 50%)

Grenade Kit- cast a single mine (from Mine Field, so you know its effectiveness) that lasts 20s on the ground (range circle not yet addressed)

Elixir Gun- leave a trail of glue (probably 100 radius each drop) that will immobilize enemies when stepping on it (your ability to do so lasts just 3s, each glue trail lasts 3s)

Bomb Kit- casts a Magnetic Bomb that explodes after 2-3s and pulls enemies towards you (seems to have a 240 radius, I’m not sure if it’s affected by Forceful Explosives)

So we are clear… global cooldown means that if I use Elixir Gun I won’t be able to use other kits’ kit refinements for a Whole 20s.

My own comment on this change:

Once again we get to be be even more similar to elementalists (attunement bonuses) and yet we get lower effects, duration and actual effectiveness in trade of previously worthwhile traits/skills, the Kit Refinement we have now is just like pre-patch thumper turret’s toolbelt… Useless…

The only useful thing is Bomb kit’s refinement, and counting it’ll only be worthwhile in PvP, no player will use Kit Refinement in PvE for the next month (provided devs will change it), grats.

While the new changes are appreciated, the 20 second cooldown across all kits combined with the short duration of the abilities themselves makes the trait worthless. Time to get a new trait.

with 20 sec global cd this triat is pointless for ppl which use more then one kit…20s for every kit would be ok but global….is just lol

I’m happy about the patch, but I’m a bit sad of the KR effect after seing your result.

2s Super speed, is really minimal. But just for your information, it’s not bugged. It’s out of combat speed, while in combat. Really useful.

A single mine from mine field, really? That’s boring. I think they gave it mostly for the boon removal.

Make all kits have an internal 15s cd on KR and we should be good.

When I hover over super speed it always starts off at one second

well that trait got nerfed into the ground. well atleast we will get more build diversity out of it =\

Penguin.5197:

When I hover over super speed it always starts off at one second

… the game doesn’t support fractions of seconds on those tooltips

The effect I get from kit refinement post patch is I now get swiftness every time I change kits with a 5 sec CD.

Patch notes say STATIC, not GLOBAL cooldown. Can anyone actually confirm the cooldown?

szar.9054:

well that trait got nerfed into the ground. well atleast we will get more build diversity out of it =\

Penguin.5197:

When I hover over super speed it always starts off at one second

… the game doesn’t support fractions of seconds on those tooltips

I know but you would expect to see it start off at two seconds if it started at two seconds

@Mif.3471

Check your own traits before posting please (that’s Speedy Kits effect)

Rfreak.6591:

@Mif.3471

Check your own traits before posting please (that’s Speedy Kits effect)

It was sarcasm….

szar.9054:

well that trait got nerfed into the ground. well atleast we will get more build diversity out of it =\

Penguin.5197:

When I hover over super speed it always starts off at one second

… the game doesn’t support fractions of seconds on those tooltips

Getting your options taken away equates to more diversity in which universe again?

RIP Double Super Elixir. I will miss using your absolute superb ability to help me run away from people in WvW. I can not count how many times you saved me by removing an immobilize + cripple\frost. I never expected this…. Why do bad things always happen to good people!? [Warriors are not good people(JayKay!!! /SuicideOff)]
I’m interested to play around with KR for bomb kit in a DPS build but not impressed with that GC of 20s.
How could the devs be so careless and devastate multikit builds?

Mif.3471:

Rfreak.6591:

@Mif.3471

Check your own traits before posting please (that’s Speedy Kits effect)

It was sarcasm….

I found it hilarious, well played I see what you did there…

I think the changes are kind of cool but honestly the devs have backed themselves into the same situation they had before. The bomb refinement is the only one that really looks strong to me, so any multiple-kit user will just be trying to avoid other refinement effects to get the one he wants. Just like before, some effects are weak and some are strong.

Rfreak.6591:

Elixir Gun- leave a trail of glue (probably 100 radius each drop) that will immobilize enemies when stepping on it (your ability to do so lasts just 3s, each glue trail lasts 3s)

-The collision for the drop matches with the animation.
-The drops will not overlap. If you stand still, you only get 1 drop.
-Drops disappear when enemy runs over it.
-Does nothing against neutral mobs until aggroed.

It’s pretty easy to get a pve mob to run over 3 of them if you run away in a straight line, but it’s eminently avoidable by any other player that wishes too. Have to grab a buddy to see if the “dodge through” plan completely negates it.

Rfreak.6591:

Grenade Kit- cast a single mine (from Mine Field, so you know its effectiveness) that lasts 20s on the ground (range circle not yet addressed)

The target’s targeting circle LITTERALLY HAS TO TOUCH the mine’s small animation for it to go off. Everyone say it with me: NERFED TO DA GROUND!!! At least it’s critting for 2,441 damage…

Rfreak.6591:

Bomb Kit- casts a Magnetic Bomb that explodes after 2-3s and pulls enemies towards you (seems to have a 360 radius, doesn’t seem to be affected by Forceful Explosives)

-3 target limit.
-zero damage
-Targets and pushes around ambient/neutral mobs, but doesn’t aggro.

I see myself using this trait with a dedicated bomb build. That’s about it.

Did the mine really crit for 2.4k?

This isn’t the mine field mines then?

The effects are ridiculous o have a very low duration.
Kit Refinement is dead.

The 20s cooldown and the effects KR gives don’t seem to work together well. I think the flavor of the class is that I’m supposed to be constantly swapping between kits and weapons to pull off chains and combos depending on the situation I’m in. The KR effects seem to be “extra” effects that I would want to use on their own accord in certain situations … so I’m effectively forced to choose between the KR effect or continue with my main abilities.

What I feel that KR needs to be are “additional” effects instead of “extra.” An incentive, or added bonus when I swap to that kit as I normally would. In short, buffs instead of effects. IE : Med Kit: Increases healing done by a percentage for a short duration, or FT: Burning duration increased by a percentage for a short duration.

Oppositely, in the current state, the cooldowns need to be independent of each other so I can equip kits with the intention of using them solely for the KR procs.

I hate to harp on a brand new change before I’ve even tried it out, but at the moment it’s not passing the smell test to me.

Kardiamond.6952:

Did the mine really crit for 2.4k?

This isn’t the mine field mines then?

Yep. got it to hit 4 targets too (1,026 damage non crit in a full zerker build all the same damage, which I suppose suggests a static damage value and not a range). The radius of the explosion is MUCH larger than the initial collision range (perhaps 360-400 range on the explosion), but getting things to run over that tiny initial mine is as much a problem as ever.

The effect duration makes KR quite … useless …

C’mon, 2s magnetic-aura, 2s super speed, a very small radius for AoE pull and that stupid glue…

Banumiel.1926:

The effects are ridiculous o have a very low duration.
Kit Refinement is dead.

That.

Rfreak.6591:

Bomb Kit- casts a Magnetic Bomb that explodes after 2-3s and pulls enemies towards you (seems to have a 360 radius, doesn’t seem to be affected by Forceful Explosives)

The only useful thing is Bomb kit’s refinement, and counting it’ll only be worthwhile in PvP, no player will use Kit Refinement in PvE for the next month (provided devs will change it), grats.

I agree, but magnetic bomb’s range is ~200 without forceful explosion trait and 360 with. Not hard to test…

Silentsins.3726:

Kardiamond.6952:

Did the mine really crit for 2.4k?

This isn’t the mine field mines then?

Yep. got it to hit 4 targets too (1,026 damage non crit in a full zerker build all the same damage, which I suppose suggests a static damage value and not a range). The radius of the explosion is MUCH larger than the initial collision range (perhaps 360-400 range on the explosion), but getting things to run over that tiny initial mine is as much a problem as ever.

Does it knockback people? or only damage?

Not impressed; especially when comparing it to a similar ‘kit-swap’ effect like Elemental Attunement that Ele’s can get for 10 points.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Attunement

Compared to Elementalists; Engineers pay same price for a supposedly similar trait but instead get less benefits which only last a pitiful amount of time on a 20s global cooldown.

Developers yet again kitten in the faces of engineers. Where do they get off thinking this helps a class like ours, which needs alot more attention. They murdered kit refinement, and buffed a few useless kitten turrets that nobody uses in wvw/spvp or even pve that much. Turrets still not viable. GG arena net. Failed the class once more

Kardiamond.6952:

Does it knockback people? or only damage?

Just damage.

It occurs to me that most of the “new” KR effects are just another, more different gadget effects:
Grenade KR = 1/2 of the mine utility (but better)
Bomb KR =1/2 mine utility (but better)
Elixir Gun KR = 1/2 slick shoes (but worse)
Tool KR = 1/2 slick shoes (but worse)

Sure, the details are different, but the effects will be used in much the same way as the existing gadgets.

…guess a cooldown reduction on slick shoes is out of the question now…

in a build with a single kit, it’s cool to trait this and get a fun effect for free.

From the moment you use more than one kit, you’re in a mess with the 20 sec cooldown.
You never know what kit you’ll need, and what proc you’ll waste when you were waiting for the other effect.

Multi-kit builds got hit pretty hard.
No more condition removal, no more different proc effects to chain, no more usage when stunned…

Allowing the effects to work when you’re in midair is the worst part. It doesn’t allow you to have any control over when you activate the effect or which kit you want it from. Feels like a change made by someone who has never played an engineer. Absolutely useless now.

They finally killed my engineer, i survived 13543 nerfs, resskilled/regeared after every patch, now you got me anet. Im done here.

Kontrolle.3514:

They finally killed my engineer, i survived 13543 nerfs, resskilled/regeared after every patch, now you got me anet. Im done here.

Very very, very tempted to throw in the towel along side ya. Only reason I’m not is that the conditions/HGH build still somewhat interests me; least til they nerf that into the ground too, to give gadgets a cooldown reductiom or something equally ludicrous.

Its not a great trait. Im sure it can be useful to certain, single-kit, builds. But multikit, no no no.

Grenade KR; target has to pretty much touch the small mine for it to trigger. And why are we still using a melee range effect for Grenades?

Bomb Kit: This effect scales with Forceful Explosions, going for a 240radius WITH forceful explosives. Its not a bad effect, some potential to setup a bomb hit. Switch bombkit, drop bomb and enemy gets pulled in and then blown up. Has potential.

And then we have a 2sec projectile reflect, 4sec fireshield, 2sec speed, and the glue trail. Honestly, none of these effects are truely good enough for the 20sec shared cooldown they are on.
And thats the poor thing about it, the effects share a cooldown which is a pain in the kitten for anyone running a multi-kit build. Infact, anyone with Speedy Kits gets screwed over aswell because these effects proc OUT OF COMBAT. So trying to run around with your med kit will also proc KR and keep it on cooldown.
Effectively KR and Speedy Kits, (argueably) the two most usefull traits in the Tool-line are directly conflicting. Sad state indeed.

And seemingly the 100% buff to Super Elixir was a bit of an exegeration, so with this KR change you’re healing will have gone down.

I’m sure people can find a good use for KR, it is not a bad trait. But it was better before imo.

Halcyon.7352:

Kontrolle.3514:

They finally killed my engineer, i survived 13543 nerfs, resskilled/regeared after every patch, now you got me anet. Im done here.

Very very, very tempted to throw in the towel along side ya. Only reason I’m not is that the conditions/HGH build still somewhat interests me; least til they nerf that into the ground too, to give gadgets a cooldown reductiom or something equally ludicrous.

This build sucks, it always sucked and will ever suck its designed for baddies who suck at playing engineer. Its totally BS in 1vX and HGH is the most useless and wasted trait ever. Jes its the last build left because there is no other way to remove conditions, but that doesnt mean its a good build.

If you dont agree you were a baddie anyway. The only dangerous/decent engineers had a minimum of 2 kits, everything else was just free badges.

I just rage now until maybe next week and maybe i continue playing my mesmer/ele or im done once and for all. Engineer is dead for me and it was the thing that drawed me to this game.

@Kontrolle

What?

Way to lose any kind of credibility.

Our strongest build use HGH, I don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

The last time I used Elixirs and HGH was just prior to the HGH buff.

And honestly back then, it felt terrible, particularly in damage and versatility. Which is why I switched to a kit mastery KR build.

But hey, I have much to relearn.

Try it again, Try Mask build.

The damage is really good, you have nice survivability and nice boon spamming.

Also a lot of condition removal.

Kit refinement is dead, and so is the engineer class as far as I’m concerned.

The Kit Refinement/Super Elixir spamming made most engineer specs viable, without it the class is just plain bad.

And now that there isn’t a reason to want kit refinement.. they double the cooldown duration…

GoZero.9708:

While the new changes are appreciated, the 20 second cooldown across all kits combined with the short duration of the abilities themselves makes the trait worthless. Time to get a new trait.

Ruined the trait for me (personally).

Players can’t keep track of an invisible 20 sec cooldown. So effects go off when you don’t want them now.

Shared cooldown, between all kits? It seems that very little thought was placed into this decision.

Was the old way bad? I never saw people whining that Engineers “do too much”. Ever. No clue why the change occurred.

Some are better, like when using the Healing Kit, you want a shield most likely, not an explosion. Bomb Kit pulls people in.

Many are worse.
A mine (one, just one) dropped locally for the Ranged Grenades? What is the point?
Why does my ranged Elixir Gun get a local movement impairment effect? I miss my Super Elixir, but it wasn’t like it protected me or my group as a trump card (it seemed balanced already). Now I root people. I see the benefits, but I don’t see any synergy. It’s just “tacked on”.

Others are pointless changes. Neutral.
Tool Kit has a speed boost. We can melee more, theoretically, as we chase down moving players. Good enough, except the short duration. Cripple changed to “run fast”. Meh, apples to oranges, and see no difference in changing one to the other. In fact, we lost an instant cripple that would allow us to maintain melee range.
Flame Thrower now does a fire shield that only does damage when hit, and grants Might. Before, it inflicted 5 seconds of burning in melee range. Seems like we lost out, but I’ll call it neutral.

The rest of the patch seemed like fixes to Engineer. Kit Refinement though seems like Anet’s way of telling us not to use it ever, unless we are building around Magnetic Bomb or Glue Trail.

The “fun” is what is important.

It was fun before without balance issues. Now, the fun is gone.

on elixir gun this:

1. swap Elixir gun and glue

2. hit #4 and drop an acid bomb

3. start your shooting on the enemy getting hurt by the acid bomb.

This is a smart change, for a build using only EG it’s actually a usefull thing.

I was so exited of tool kit and elixir gun refintment. When i tested eb kit fefintment i literally kitten my pants.

Kimbald.2697:

on elixir gun this:

1. swap Elixir gun and glue

2. hit #4 and drop an acid bomb

3. start your shooting on the enemy getting hurt by the acid bomb.

This is a smart change, for a build using only EG it’s actually a usefull thing.

That does sound like a lot of fun, but I would prefer another Super Elixir.

Not happy now.

I only just discovered the joys of this trait with the Elixir Gun. Only for half a day did I get to enjoy this and now that extra healing ring has been turned into a useless immobolize so I can run away from enemies.

Also they said they increased the healing of the super elixir buy 100% for splash heal. My tool tip still says 700ish. This would have made up for that ring loss somewhat but meh this does nothing since this does not seem to be working as intended.

Knightmare.8634:

Kimbald.2697:

on elixir gun this:

1. swap Elixir gun and glue

2. hit #4 and drop an acid bomb

3. start your shooting on the enemy getting hurt by the acid bomb.

This is a smart change, for a build using only EG it’s actually a usefull thing.

I usally tend to start with super elixir + skill 4 for heal and area retaliation which brings refintment to 20 s cd. Glue idea is nice but 20s cd is way too long to do anything with it. Dropping this trait for good now.

See you all are looking at this from wrong prospective. All changes are good because from Dev point of view now that KR sucks monkey chunks less people will use it so therefore less reason to actually balance it since previous nerfs.

I really think most effects are pretty cool.

Tool kit got more mobility, but i preferred the old effect. Still, not ‘bad’ now.

Elixir gun: works great with acid bomb, the hardest hitting ability on the kit.
The healing got nerfed… hard.

Flamethrower: more defense that hurts, on a kit already in melee range. Sad to see the condition removal go though.

Grenades, a mine at your feet on the only 1500 range weapon we have?
Not logical, but they wanted to enrf 100nades without taking away everything at close range I guess.

Med kit: waaaay better.

Bomb kit: a very usefull pull to bomb them better.

It’s not that the effects are bad, some are better, some a bit worse…

IT IS THE FREAKING SHARED COOLDOWN!!!

Give them all a SEPERATE 20 second cooldown.
That would be fair: use multiple kits… get multiple procs. Simple.
But each proc has it’s own cd of 20 seconds to balance it out.

Kimbald.2697:

on elixir gun this:

1. swap Elixir gun and glue

2. hit #4 and drop an acid bomb

3. start your shooting on the enemy getting hurt by the acid bomb.

This is a smart change, for a build using only EG it’s actually a usefull thing.

I tried that, and it just roots your targets for a sec. The leap back causes the trail to break, and they run straight to you because the trail is dry.

I mean, it has its uses, but its synergy with the weapon isn’t as great as Super Elixir was.

Its synergy is great for multi-swapping, and forcing another second of damage on Acid Bomb, but it is damage we could do any other way. We basically lost a group heal (party members, NPCs, ourselves).

We lost another support ability for another movement control ability. We didn’t need another movement control ability.

YES SCREW THIS COOLDOWN! ALL KR skills are cool now but 20 seconds cool donw is not gaming! WE DONT HAVE 20 SECONDS IN BATTLEFIELD! THIEF BANGS U DOWN in seconds! U WILL FACE MULTIPLE ENEMIES NOT JUST ONE! KEEP THE SKILLS PLANTED BUT TAKE A WAY COOLDOWN! Most of engineer skills are completely useless because of cool downs of 40 seconds! I mean in what situation of the game u can survive with 20s-40s cooldowns! I can tell not in pvp / wvw. PVE CD’s doenst matter because its just dps dps for rares.

The only kit I’ve ever run with is elixir gun. This is a really terrible change. The extra super elixir was great for condition removal in groups for dungeons and WvW. If someone got too close, I would just elixir F to slow and acid bomb away. I’ve always considered the EG as a support-type kit and this makes it look like it’s meant for running away now.