Still under testing but I found kit refinement combos that still work before nerfs on the way:
Grenade to any kit
Tool kit to any kit
Bomb kit to any kit (as intended)
EG does not combo with “to” any kit (even bomb)
FT does not combo with “to” any kit (even bomb)
Bomb kit to Tool kit / Grenade kit and then any kit after (3 kit combo)
Tool kit to Grenade kit to another kit (and vice versa- superbugged) (3 kit combo)
Another things I found out is the medkit is bugged from the kit refinement. When you use kit refinement, it also shares global cooldown of 10 seconds before you can spam it again. This means that you can determine when the kit refinement is ready by spamming medkit until you get the explosion or using a perma-swiftness timer (5 secs).
Internal Cooldown:
Elixir Gun- 20 seconds
Flamethrower- 10 seconds
Grenades- 20 seconds
Tool kit-10 seconds
Bomb kit- no cool down, instant proc. (bugged? gcd affected by FT & EG)
Med kit- no cool down, instant proc. gcd affected.
Hope this helps
Now let the fix countdown commence =P
No two engineers are the same.
Passionate engineer; self-proclaimed kitmaster. <3
I noted in another post too that if you switch to FT or EG in the air it will now activate the ICD but it will not produce the Kit Refinement effect.
So do not try and bypass KR by jumping when it comes to FT and EG.
Wait, so the global kit cooldown of 10s didn’t replace each kit’s respective cooldown? What was the point to the global cooldown then? to screw with the engineer some more?
I was under the impression that they thought we were abusing the kit refinements, now it just seems like they’re just playing with us. Why do we need a global cooldown if we already have individual cooldowns?
They should have just slapped another 10 sec on the flamethrower cleanse instead of screwing over kit engineers.
Chain refinement procs in quick succession? at most you’ll trigger three (I woudn’t count med-kit’s useless bowel discharge). After they’ve triggered you need to wait for the duration of their original cooldowns to tick before you can do so again. They should have done away with the original cooldowns and made the 10 second one work on every kit. This would actually be manageable and would require less internal cooldowns, we would be able to get used to it.
The trait is currently broken, most likely intentionally to force players play FT/EG based builds so they stay longer etc, they break the trait and they can “fix” whenever they want to what they want, most likely will stay broken for a while and hopefully it does
Well; this is great; now I can make sure to leave on speedy kits, instead of switching to kit refinement.
As it is I’m gonna need to run away since switching to EG to get some condition removal won’t work since I’ll have used my grenade barage. (or vice versa).
I understand why they did it. No other class can switch weapons as quickly (oh wait elementalists) and get the benefit of their “on switch” procs. (oh wait; elementalists attunment bonuses) so it was really rebalancing us with other classes use of on-weapon-switch sigils.
This seems like it was a “We have a 10 second cooldown for everyone else! why do these engineers get to spam on weapon switch stuff!”
Unfortunately the bright spark who came up with that forgot that it was a class based weapon switch effect not a weapon sigil weapon switch effect and should be balanced on a class level, not brought in line with sigil weapon switching.
Obviously; if we get weapon-switch-sigil procs off our kit switches that should be on a 10 second global cooldown. But kit refinement is a class ability; it should NOT be treated the same as weapon sigils.
I understand why they did it. No other class can switch weapons as quickly (oh wait elementalists) and get the benefit of their “on switch” procs. (oh wait; elementalists attunment bonuses) so it was really rebalancing us with other classes use of on-weapon-switch sigils.
Loved this part btw. Exactly how i feel every single time they try to overcompensate for sigils on this class.
I dunno why I bother playing anymore honestly. I am happy they increased the damage of kits but condis are still nerfed, cones still miss (tried mine tonight again) and turrets are still useless and stationary. Oh well.
Anet I get it, engineer is high skill cap class, but come on, could any of your devs play this class so he knows actualy what the hell are you changing and why? Having single and global cooldowns in the same time seems even more horrible than bureacracy which people tend to meet in office.
EDIT: Its a bit unfair to crush engis builds which need to push tons of buttons to be effective while there is still no real nerf to thiefs heartseeker, obvious press 2 for win button. I even tried thief, leveld to lvl 7, went PvP and just wondered how easy is to kill people with it.
What a pain. Kit refinement essentially gave you an extra skill per kit on a cooldown per kit. Now they are essentially saying that kit refinement only gives you 1 useful skill regardless of how many kits you have equipped in a period of time. Seems like a fairly massive downgrade to one of the few useful traits we have that actually mostly worked and which encouraged some fun gameplay via kitswapping.
But I’m sure the engineer needs more nerfs and downgrades, we are so overplayed and overpowered right now.
So if I want the super elixir proc from EG… I can’t use a Flamethrower, or tool kit, or med kit, or any kit for 10 seconds…
So much for no cooldown kit swapping.
We can now chose between multi-kit instantswapping, without kit refinement.
Or have kit refinement and only use 1 kit, or accept a 10 second cooldown on any swap.
Biggest nerf to engineer versatility I have seen.
Not biggest engineer nerf, just the biggest one to their versatility!
Oh the irony…
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
Still under testing but I found kit refinement combos that still work before nerfs on the way:
Grenade to any kit
Tool kit to any kit
Bomb kit to any kit (as intended)
EG does not combo with “to” any kit (even bomb)
FT does not combo with “to” any kit (even bomb)
Bomb kit to Tool kit / Grenade kit and then any kit after (3 kit combo)
Tool kit to Grenade kit to another kit (and vice versa- superbugged) (3 kit combo)
Another things I found out is the medkit is bugged from the kit refinement. When you use kit refinement, it also shares global cooldown of 10 seconds before you can spam it again. This means that you can determine when the kit refinement is ready by spamming medkit until you get the explosion or using a perma-swiftness timer (5 secs).
Internal Cooldown:
Elixir Gun- 20 seconds
Flamethrower- 10 seconds
Grenades- 20 seconds
Tool kit-10 seconds
Bomb kit- no cool down, instant proc. (bugged? gcd affected by FT & EG)
Med kit- no cool down, instant proc. gcd affected.
Hope this helps
Now let the fix countdown commence =P
My testing shows similar results. From my testing using Elixir gun’s kit refinement procs a 20s ICD and Flamethrower procs a 10s ICD to the kit refinement trait for all kits. Every other kit was exactly the same as it used to be. I’ll have to double check on grenade’s ICD, I was sure it was 10s.
The problem is that this is not what’s stated in the patch note.
\related note Elixir gun’s #5 is insanely powerful now when geared for healing. @1k healing power impact heal is 1k. If the patch note was what it’s suppose to be, (Elixir gun procs a 10s ICD) you can have a infinite super elixir field just by using the kit refinement super elixir (without using #5 on Elixir gun) talk about op-ness…
Impact: 700 base with .4 Healing Power
Pulse: 204 base with .1 Healing Power.
Elixir gun Kit refinement is still 20 seconds. Yes, a 1k Healing power elixir gun will be 1100 impact heal, but that itself is not overpowered. Shout warriors can get traited shouts with 0 healing power for that much too. Full heal with 0 healing power is 2740 HP per 10 seconds. With healing power of 1000, it’s 4140 HP over 10 seconds. (Still not as good as just dropping/using a healing skill, (Elixir H: 5560 HP, Healing turret: 4920 for the drop, Medkit: 4920 for Bandage Self)
snip
My testing shows similar results. From my testing using Elixir gun’s kit refinement procs a 20s ICD and Flamethrower procs a 10s ICD to the kit refinement trait for all kits. Every other kit was exactly the same as it used to be. I’ll have to double check on grenade’s ICD, I was sure it was 10s.
The problem is that this is not what’s stated in the patch note.
\related note Elixir gun’s #5 is insanely powerful now when geared for healing. @1k healing power impact heal is 1k. If the patch note was what it’s suppose to be, (Elixir gun procs a 10s ICD) you can have a infinite super elixir field just by using the kit refinement super elixir (without using #5 on Elixir gun) talk about op-ness…
I looked at other posts for the past few days about their testing on kit refinement and it seems like everyone is getting different results, just like to ask everyone, has anyone been getting the same result as me or does it vary?
Espiecially the medkit, many people are saying it is not affected but I tested it as find it is affect by the global cool down e.g EG to Medkit does not combo. Let me know your results.
No two engineers are the same.
Passionate engineer; self-proclaimed kitmaster. <3
Only the EG and FT trigger the global cooldown (at present).
If triggered, the global cooldown blocks the KR effect for all kits.
The global cooldown can be triggered even when the KR effect does not proc due to the kit-specific cooldown being active (currently only occurs on the EG with its 20s internal KR cooldown).
Other kits do not trigger the KR global cooldown (but are affected by it if it’s active).
The effect is a massive nerf to Kit Refinment for users of the Elixir Gun, and to a lesser extent the Flamethrower. Grenade Kit or Tool Kit users are currently affected only if they also use the EG or FT. However the release notes also said both the Grenade Kit and Tool Kit were meant to trigger the global cooldown, so watch this space.
(Think there’s a bit of noise about the KR change now? Just imagine the uproar if/when the implementation covers the Grenade Kit and Tool Kit as well.)
