Guild Wars 2

As many of you should already know, the patch yesterday changed a few things about how kits work.

1) Weapon stats now apply to kits
2) All bundles created by skills now do equivalent damage to a weapon of highest rarity that the player can use.

While point 1 is easily verified, there has been some debate over what exactly point 2 has done, if anything at all. In an effort to understand this change, I’ve spent the past few hours gathering data on kit damage. What I’ve found is that kits have their own weapon damage statistic that is hidden from the player and that this weapon damage stat is comparable to an exotic’s weapon damage stat. Furthermore, I’ve found that all kits have the same damage range.

By using the attack statistic I was able to find the bomb kit’s maximum damage, 969. This value can be easily seen by using any kit and simply subtracting the power, thus all kits have the same top-end damage. The damage coefficient for the auto attack skill was estimated by using the highest observed damage numbers on attacks against foes that had high armor values around 2600 (tested earlier by determining rifle damage against several different targets). Next, I used the observed minimums and the approximated damage coefficient to determine the low-end weapon damage statistic, this value was found to be about 876. Having determined a weapon damage statistic of 876-969, I verified my findings by computing both the average damage of this range and the observed average damages dealt, and comparing these numbers to both each other and the damage tooltip by using the approximate damage coefficient.

This process was repeated for both the grenade kit and the elixir gun, with almost identical results. The flamethrower and tool kit were not tested due to difficulties in determining a valid data pool of observed damages. Further testing will need to be done to verify that these kits do indeed have the same low-end damage values.

Weapon kit weapon damage has therefore been found to be approximately 876 – 969. While out and out lower than most level 80 exotic weapons, these numbers are in fact higher than those found on exotic torches, warhorns, and foci.

Many risen died to bring you this information.

Unless the kits (weapon damage) have changed recently, the weapons damage of each kit has basically been common knowledge since release. Plenty of threads on it.

Although it is good to see many risen died in your studies my friend.

Gurt.9368:

Weapon kit weapon damage has therefore been found to be approximately 876 – 969. While out and out lower than most level 80 exotic weapons, these numbers are in fact higher than those found on exotic torches, warhorns, and foci.

969 obviously is right. The bad thing is, as also pointed out in another thread, torches, warhorns, . . . are dual-wielding weapons, meaning you get the additional stats and sigills from both weapons.

If we use a rifle on a kit now we´re finally screwed twice (sigills, additional stats on weapon) if this is really supposed to be the final solution for weapon stats on kits.

coglin.1496:

Unless the kits (weapon damage) have changed recently, the weapons damage of each kit has basically been common knowledge since release. Plenty of threads on it.

Although it is good to see many risen died in your studies my friend.

The path notes said there was supposed to be a change to the weapon damage, iirc, the kits before the patch used masterwork weapon damage. Although, I may have heard wrong or remembered incorrectly.

I don’t think this is quite enough, but I’m at a loss for what to do. Increasing the weapon damage to be comparable with a two handed weapon would allow p/p and p/s builds to get that weapon and two sigils, but leaving it like it is now means we need to use p/p or p/s to get the same level of benefits.

That said, my bombs are kicking kitten harder than ever now.

Gurt.9368:

The path notes said there was supposed to be a change to the weapon damage

Yes, and as I posted before, this did not happen. It was easily compared by looking at your stats page while swapping between weapon and kits, while watching your stats.

Gurt.9368:

That said, my bombs are kicking kitten harder than ever now.

Yes, they raised some damage coefficients. At least that is the rumor.

coglin.1496:

Gurt.9368:

The path notes said there was supposed to be a change to the weapon damage

Yes, and as I posted before, this did not happen. It was easily compared by looking at your stats page while swapping between weapon and kits, while watching your stats.

I don’t follow. To determine if the weapon damage stat on kits was changed or not we’d need to see the stats from before the patch.

Merely changing between weapon kit and weapon doesn’t show that they didn’t change the stats in and of itself, especially if the weapon kit’s weapon damage stat is lower than your rifle’s or your pistol’s. As it stands, switching between a weapon kit and a rifle should reduce your attack stat by about 236. If before the patch it reduced the attack damage by say, 400, then the weapon damage was still increased. I don’t know what the difference was before the patch.

There was no kit damage increase. The only increase in damage you will see is from the 100 or so extra power your getting from your weapon now. The exotic lvl weapon damage for kits never happened. My bombs do the exact same damage now as they did pre patch. The only noticeable difference would be that you dont have to swap out of kits to get the full effect of your heal if you have weapons with healing power on it.

YourOwnFear.2743:

There was no kit damage increase. The only increase in damage you will see is from the 100 or so extra power your getting from your weapon now. The exotic lvl weapon damage for kits never happened. My bombs do the exact same damage now as they did pre patch. The only noticeable difference would be that you dont have to swap out of kits to get the full effect of your heal if you have weapons with healing power on it.

I’m seeing an increase of about 100 to 150 damage on my bomb kit in PvE. I know that the power on my weapon can’t account for that much of an increase. Do you primarily play PvP?

Gurt.9368:

YourOwnFear.2743:

There was no kit damage increase. The only increase in damage you will see is from the 100 or so extra power your getting from your weapon now. The exotic lvl weapon damage for kits never happened. My bombs do the exact same damage now as they did pre patch. The only noticeable difference would be that you dont have to swap out of kits to get the full effect of your heal if you have weapons with healing power on it.

I’m seeing an increase of about 100 to 150 damage on my bomb kit in PvE. I know that the power on my weapon can’t account for that much of an increase. Do you primarily play PvP?

They never changed kits “attack damage” and the notes never suggested they did.

it says
“Bundles from player skills (engineer kits, elementalist conjured weapons, warrior banners) now have base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.”

It does not state that any individual players will have their attack damage scale to that of the highest weapon damage the player has in his arsenal.

It states that we have damage consistent with what is available to us as a whole. To do that, they did not change kit attack damage, they simply adjusted skill coefficients on several kits skills to give the damage equivalent of the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.

base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player does not translate in any way to suggest that you get the attack power of your equipped weapon, while using the kit.

coglin.1496:

Gurt.9368:

YourOwnFear.2743:

There was no kit damage increase. The only increase in damage you will see is from the 100 or so extra power your getting from your weapon now. The exotic lvl weapon damage for kits never happened. My bombs do the exact same damage now as they did pre patch. The only noticeable difference would be that you dont have to swap out of kits to get the full effect of your heal if you have weapons with healing power on it.

I’m seeing an increase of about 100 to 150 damage on my bomb kit in PvE. I know that the power on my weapon can’t account for that much of an increase. Do you primarily play PvP?

They never changed kits “attack damage” and the notes never suggested they did.

YourOwnFear is claiming that damage hasn’t increased at all. My damage has increased notably. Regardless of what Anet changed, damage has gone up.

coglin.1496:

It does not state that any individual players will have their attack damage scale to that of the highest weapon damage the player has in his arsenal.

I’m not claiming it does. I am seeing a very nice, very welcome damage increase.

coglin.1496:

It states that we have damage consistent with what is available to us as a whole. To do that, they did not change kit attack damage, they simply adjusted skill coefficients on several kits skills to give the damage equivalent of the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.

Can you provide an attack stat with and without a kit equipped from before the patch as proof? I’m curious where you’re getting this from. I don’t know what the coefficients or the old attack stat damages were before the patch, and am curious to know how they did actually increase the damages. Increasing the coefficients would be a good way to do it, but increasing the internal weapon damage stat would be a good method too.

coglin.1496:

base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player does not translate in any way to suggest that you get the attack power of your equipped weapon, while using the kit.

I know. I never said or implied otherwise.

In my post I was just trying to make the point that there was no damage changes on any kits and was more so pointing out bombs since someone said their bomb damage had increased. It didn’t change at all.

At gurt, like I said before, If you had power on your weapon then the damage would go up since you now retain that 100 or so power from your weapon. If you have no power on your weapon then the damage is exactly the same.

YourOwnFear.2743:

In my post I was just trying to make the point that there was no damage changes on any kits and was more so pointing out bombs since someone said their bomb damage had increased. It didn’t change at all.

At gurt, like I said before, If you had power on your weapon then the damage would go up since you now retain that 100 or so power from your weapon. If you have no power on your weapon then the damage is exactly the same.

I’m seeing an increase in bomb damage without power. I know that my bombs used to hit for 600 – 700 without crits. They now hit for about 750 – 900 without crits. I don’t know what to tell you. What I am experiencing directly contradicts what you’re saying.

Gurt.9368:

YourOwnFear is claiming that damage hasn’t increased at all. My damage has increased notably. Regardless of what Anet changed, damage has gone up.

Yes. I stated that already. I even made a thread on it. Damage was adjusted with skill damage coefficient changes made to individual kits on skills and not by overall kit damage change. They stated that they made kit skills damage adjustments. It is further discussed if you look through the dev tracker.

Gurt.9368:

I’m not claiming it does. I am seeing a very nice, very welcome damage increase.

Yes, as I said, they adjusted individual skill damage

Gurt.9368:

Can you provide an attack stat with and without a kit equipped from before the patch as proof? I’m curious where you’re getting this from.

Sure. I can train a monkey to figure it out. Other then the fact that I have posted every engineer skills damage coeffecient before, and having my own spread sheet of it. Go o in game at look at it now. My Bomb kit #1 skill damage coefficient is now in game, higher then all of the build editors. And there are a plethora of videos with the damage in them

Gurt.9368:

I never said or implied otherwise.

I never said you did.

Without a weapon equipped my bombs do the same exact damage as they did prepatch and the damage only goes up by around 50 or so with a weapon equipped. I must not be understanding what your saying they changed but to me its clear that the only thing that has changed is the stats from the weapon have been added and that is the only way you will see a damage change.

The other change about the damage being increased to equal the damage of an equivalent rare item never happened because I would see some damage increase somewhere and there isnt one.

Well I and many others disagree. There are plenty of post clarifying higher damage that disagree with you as well.

Not to mention several folks posting screen shots of the damage logs to support it.

I haven’t seen a single post with someone showing their bomb damage pre patch and then post patch with no weapon equipped. Can you please point one out to me since I am clearly unable to find one.

I would also like to mention once again that damage with kits did increase if you have power on your weapon and its equipped. Outside of that I have personally tested this in every way possible and the damage is exactly the same.

No thanks, if you chose not to believe me, all the other posters, and other threads, thats okay. Go to youtube and look at bomb build videos from last week or what not as they hover their mouse over the skills and as they use them in action. Its all there documented on video. Then look at yours.

If you feel thats inaccurate, and your experiences are different, that is fine too. It works for me, and I am happy with the change. If your unhappy with it, thats fine too.

Its a good change, and very literally what a very very many posters have specifically asked for, including myself. We got specifically what we asked for, so I am having trouble justifying your complaint.

I never said I was unhappy. I have made my point and there are no counter points with proof on the forums. Bomb damage has not changed. Bomb damage right now with no weapon equipped is exactly the same as it was pre patch.

I have no proof to post myself so I leave my testing methods here for people to use themselves and see for themselves. If you can remember what your kit damage was pre patch then simply remove your weapon, find a target and attack with that kit. If you were testing bomb damage with different weapons to see if there was a difference pre patch like me then you will notice that there was no damage increase or coefficient change on bombs.

I would also like to add that I didn’t complain, I was making a statement. I have been fine with engi since launch. I like the class and make due with it. I would like to be as effective in what I spec into as a rival class but I still do it if I am or not. Don’t try to make it sound like I am complaining because I have a differing opinion on what actually changed then you.

Hey I just turned 40! That means I can use rare weapons! My kits now do base dmg == rare weapons my level!

Hey I just turned 60! That means I can get some exotic gear! That means my kits do base dmg == exotic weapons my level!

Boy this is confusing! Kittens!

P.S. prior dmg is irrelevant, what you have is what you’ve got,

coglin.1496:

Gurt.9368:

Can you provide an attack stat with and without a kit equipped from before the patch as proof? I’m curious where you’re getting this from.

Sure. I can train a monkey to figure it out.

That won’t be necessary, I’ll accept what you provide, no monkeys involved.

Gurt.9368:

coglin.1496:

Gurt.9368:

Can you provide an attack stat with and without a kit equipped from before the patch as proof? I’m curious where you’re getting this from.

Sure. I can train a monkey to figure it out.

That won’t be necessary, I’ll accept what you provide, no monkeys involved.

C’com everyone loves monkeys.