Guild Wars 2

I like some of the uses for kits, but in general, I hate kits. I would rather not use them period. Nevertheless, I am currently forcing myself to play a full kit utility bar to get to know them a bit better, before I solidify my opinion. I have read a lot of threads on this forum that complain about kits in any number of ways. Kits take up a utility slot, Kits don’t get weapon sigils, Kits are UP, we need more kits, we need less kits, I want a sniper rifle (or at least a sniper kit…). I don’t disagree with these complaints, but I do have a question…

Kits currently work as bundles, but here is my question/suggestion. How hard would it be for an engineer to apply a kit TO his weapon? So the Elixir Gun Kit is a utility skill that gets applied to his weapon. Flame thrower is a attachment/kit that gets applied to his weapon. If that were the case, couldn’t adding a sniper kit, something that expanded the range and skills of the weapon to a further distance, be something that is much easier to do?

Would that not also fix the sigil things? To me, that would make sense for a utility skill as well, in that I am altering my weapon for improved utility, instead of pulling out a completely different weapon that should go in a weapon swapping slot.

Just thinking out loud a little bit and wondering what anyone/everyone thinks about that idea?

I suggested numerous times (since beta wknd 1 actually) this sort of thing to fix the cosmetic issues with kits “that they hide your weapon you earned”. But i dont see how this really changed anything other issues you might be having.

As it stands now your not altering your weapon for “improved” utility….your simply just changing the utility to another set. We still technically have just as many utility slots even if we go full weapon kits due to the tool belt mechanic. The class defining ability then evolves to "we’re a class with potentially 5 weapon kits with no cd on swapping between them in combat’.

In end, not sure what your saying…if your just suggesting to fix the cosmetic issues, then i’m glad we’re on the same page. Otherwise i’m not sure what your suggesting.

The love hate relationship is due to the sloppy design of this class. I’ll explain when i get home to type on regular cpu. on droid atm

Zinwrath.2049:

In end, not sure what your saying…if your just suggesting to fix the cosmetic issues, then i’m glad we’re on the same page. Otherwise i’m not sure what your suggesting.

In terms of the suggestion, it is a mixture of the mechanical issues as well as the appearance issues.

Mechanically, kits work as “bundles” right now. Because of this, they don’t get weapon sigils for instance. (First one I could think of, I am sure there are others) Mechanically, there are some issues with kits. My thought would be wouldn’t it make more sense if instead of kits as bundles, they are actually viewed as things added to the weapon. Meaning the base weapon stays the same, we could keep the sigils from our current weapons and then get them applied to the kits that have altered the base weapon.

Visually, I hate the idea of having the majority of my weapons be something that I can’t find a cool skin for. I think it would be cooler (given a ton of work..) if my rifle/pistol skins were the base all the kits, but the kits themselves applied an additional upgrade to whatever it was that I was using.

Honestly, given that we are post release, I don’t think this could/would be happening, but to me it would be a move in the right direction in terms of the issues that many have with the kits.

My 2c as a MMORPG player of 15+ years, YMMV:

The base problem with the kits is that it’s simply more buttons to press for the sake of pressing more buttons.

1. The kits aren’t particularly viable stand-alone. Not that you can’t make them work, but it requires extreme spec and extreme limitation on what job you will do.

2. This sends us to the “design” of the class: that you MUST kit-swap to be as effective as other classes. Other classes that can do it with half the buttons you have as an Engineer.

While you do not have to do this, as some go Plain Jane Rifle or Pistol, they are playing a ghost of other classes. Other classes that can do it better.

Why?

3. The “variety” of so many kits! You have versatility. As was remarked on another thread here, the defense of this sloppy design is that “on paper the Engineer wins EVERY fight. They CAN counter every single spec of any other class.”

Sounds good in theory. But in reality, that’s simply untrue. At no point can you have ALL the “versatility” available to you. You can’t fit them all in your limited choices. As a result, this variety doesn’t really play out that way. You can only have so many arrows in your quiver at a time, and your spec/traits will generally have been chosen to accent your PRIMARY character role-choice. So while you can conceivably switch out some of your utility skills for the situation you will face, it’s not particularly optimal and not nearly as useful as you’d think.

It’s such a red herring that it causes people to miss the entire point that Engineers are very poorly designed. Instead having their vision clouded by number 5 on my list——-

5. People think Engineers are more complex, and so they are a “high skill, high reward” class compared to the other classes who are for simpletons that mash 2 buttons.

Patently false. If it were not, then you’d see Engineers dominating across the board. While most players that play video games are neither very skilled nor very good, there are a good segment who are. And that segment would be unstoppable with a character that was “high skill, high reward” going against the rest of the 2-button classes.

But what you actually see, and what I’ve witnessed in playing, is that most any class is quite capable of holding their own in fights. Across the board in general, and against Engineers in particular.

Ultimately, too much of this kit-swapping should be unnecessary.

Brutus Tarsi, your suggestion that kits simply be add-ons or enhancements to the basic weapons is a pretty good start to fixing this melange of slop currently called “Engineer” class.

As it stands, you need to use 40 skills as a Engineer to push yourself into the “good” player level. A place where other classes are making it with less than 20 buttons.

What attracted me to the idea of GW play was that I wouldn’t have to have 60+ buttons to use ala WoW. The simplification of buttons, but with increased importance of TIMING and proper utilization of those buttons, sounded intriguing and more “chess like” than needing to memorize the IRS tax codes simply to hold my own in a video game. I want fun, not a second job when I’m playing games.

I’ve only started messing with a Thief, and am probably going to try a Warrior. But the Thief already feels like a god in how easy life is for him even at his young age. It wasn’t that easy with my Engineer. The needless complexity of the Engineer makes for a steep learning curve, just to hold your own as a character. I know even LESS about the Thief and he’s light years easier to play. Again, I’m no rookie at MMORPGs. Just imagine what it’s like for players who ARE. No wonder Engys aren’t that popular.

A point to further illustrate the silly, needless complexity for Engineers (due to questionable design) is Speedy Kits. Why are you being forced to CONSTANTLY swap kits in and out to get that speed buff? Why can’t it just be that you get the buff WHEN a kit is in your hands, and it is slowed by combat? Wouldn’t that not only be easier, but make more sense? Instead, you are forced to constantly switch kits even if you don’t need it.

Takes me back to twisting on my Bard in DAoC. Hated it then, carpal tunnel and all, and hate it now. Having to incessantly push multiple buttons for basic speed that a trait should grant? Silly.