Guild Wars 2

So from the balance discussion on Guild Chat, the developers talked about Sneak Gyro going to a 40 second cooldown from a 20 second cooldown.

Now, since the elite part about this elite skill is no longer about a short cooldown stealth, that gives me an interesting idea for a secondary change to Sneak Gyro.

Drum roll,

The permanent reveal on Sneak Gyro is changed to only last 5 seconds, counting down from when it is activated.

Meaning, on the third pulse, the Sneak Gyro would cloak as well, and then the mind games would begin. Edit: Reducing the duration of the Gyro from 30 seconds to 20 seconds would be necessary.

Adding a ton of depth to planned, pre-casted stealth plays on the Engineer’s part.

I think I could learn to love the new Sneak Gyro CD if it had an extra mechanic as such added on.

Cheers’

since i mostly play engi now, i see no problem with this.

Adding something that makes sense only for PvP/WvW purposes after having nerfed said skill due to those same modes (PvP in particular) with a total disregard for PvE balance (where it has a niche use at most before and is gonna get only more useless now)?
Well, that’s something they could do, definitely.

long stealths without drawbacks lack counterplay

come on chaith you know this

Chaith.8256:

So from the balance discussion on Guild Chat, the developers talked about Sneak Gyro going to a 40 second cooldown from a 20 second cooldown.

Now, since the elite part about this elite skill is no longer about a short cooldown stealth, that gives me an interesting idea for a secondary change to Sneak Gyro.

Drum roll,

The permanent reveal on Sneak Gyro is changed to only last 5 seconds, counting down from when it is activated.

Meaning, on the third pulse, the Sneak Gyro would cloak as well, and then the mind games would begin.

Adding a ton of depth to planned, pre-casted stealth plays on the Engineer’s part.

I think I could learn to love the new Sneak Gyro CD if it had an extra mechanic as such added on.

Cheers’

Nice suggestion.
Would be fair to improve the gyro a bit if it gets a much higher cd.

me personaly dont think that would be a big issue
40 seconds on elite is still nothing, as we had 120 sec on suply crate for 3 years. we can live with that

Yashuoa.9527:

Would be fair to improve the gyro a bit if it gets a much higher cd.

Or give the other gyros something in return. For example, put purge on 15s cooldown. Even better, make the final salvo trait reduce cd on all gyros by 20%. Then I’d be perfectly happy with 40s base cd on sneak.

But just as is, its a completely pointless nerf. The sneak gyro is not what give a meta scrapper its survivability while dealing damage. Anet will probably realize this eventually but they will of course never admit they are wrong and lower the cd again. That’s the sad part. Sneaky is sacrificed because reasons and you’ll see the scrapper nerfed again.

Dawdler.8521:

Yashuoa.9527:

Would be fair to improve the gyro a bit if it gets a much higher cd.

Or give the other gyros something in return.

Or both.
The other gyros should be improved, regardless of Sneak gyro anyway.

As a pve player mainly, Scrapper no longer has an elite spec for me. Yes, playing with the hammer was fun for a while, but it’s suboptimal DPS, so I stick with condi pistols. And all gyros are terrible now. I love it when Guardians complain about their 4 Spirit weapons, and here I am, with all these turrets and gyros.

But when I was roaming, or playing with more laid-back groups, I did tend to switch to Scrapper and slot Sneak Gyro. Stealth rezzing, dropping aggro, gathering resources without pesky mobs annoying me, I knew it was up for use. But not anymore. Pvp dictates the balance once more, taking small steps is not a concept in Anet’s heads, and now engineer doesn’t get to play along with the cool kids in the expansion.

We are the jack of no trades, a condi dps dealer with no utility that’s being outshined by the soon-to-be-buffed Berserker.

I agree with the proposed changes as stated by the OP.

It is important to remember that this is an Elite skill that does have the disadvantage of still indicating your general location and direction of travel since it will follow you. You are more susceptible to AoE damage (since they know the general area where you are) than standard stealth (since they have to guess where you are).

The stealth gyro will require some mechanic that allows the Engineer to make plays using it. The previous advantages were perhaps tuned too high but is it really very different from the stealth capabilities of torch chronomancer/mesmer (condi) or SA thief in WvW. You don’t tend to see these builds in PvP since they do not contribute well to holding caps (and therefore winning PvP matches). Other game modes (WvW) will be impacted by these changes, making it essential that this skill does allow Scrappers the opportunity to make plays.

even with the edit, its more than a mobile sr dude. thief stealth gets complaints all the time and sneak is just better at 20 sec cd, at 40 sec cd, and at any 10-30 sec life cycle because it slowly gives out stealth and allows restealthing and is mobile

insanemaniac.2456:

even with the edit, its more than a mobile sr dude. thief stealth gets complaints all the time and sneak is just better at 20 sec cd, at 40 sec cd, and at any 10-30 sec life cycle because it slowly gives out stealth and allows restealthing and is mobile

I didn’t realize SR took the elite spot and came with a 5k health bar.

RabbitUp.8294:

insanemaniac.2456:

even with the edit, its more than a mobile sr dude. thief stealth gets complaints all the time and sneak is just better at 20 sec cd, at 40 sec cd, and at any 10-30 sec life cycle because it slowly gives out stealth and allows restealthing and is mobile

I didn’t realize SR took the elite spot and came with a 5k health bar.

hes talking about letting it become invisible. it has no attacks, so it cant unstealth without counterplay thats only provided by ranger and engi, and its a binary guessing game that will be really boring. do you hit with your sneak gyro toolbelt? no? welp, he got away. yes? welp, you have a 6 sec timer before it happens again, and your toolbelt isnt on a 6 sec cd.

its not that hard to see that this is a terrible suggestion.

insanemaniac.2456:

RabbitUp.8294:

insanemaniac.2456:

even with the edit, its more than a mobile sr dude. thief stealth gets complaints all the time and sneak is just better at 20 sec cd, at 40 sec cd, and at any 10-30 sec life cycle because it slowly gives out stealth and allows restealthing and is mobile

I didn’t realize SR took the elite spot and came with a 5k health bar.

hes talking about letting it become invisible. it has no attacks, so it cant unstealth without counterplay thats only provided by ranger and engi, and its a binary guessing game that will be really boring. do you hit with your sneak gyro toolbelt? no? welp, he got away. yes? welp, you have a 6 sec timer before it happens again, and your toolbelt isnt on a 6 sec cd.

its not that hard to see that this is a terrible suggestion.

Well, you commended on the skill as a whole. I don’t like OP’s edit, either, because it’s entirely pvp-biased, and it’s backwards-thinking to buff the skill for pvp when this is the game mode that’s causing this change in the first place.

RabbitUp.8294:

insanemaniac.2456:

RabbitUp.8294:

insanemaniac.2456:

even with the edit, its more than a mobile sr dude. thief stealth gets complaints all the time and sneak is just better at 20 sec cd, at 40 sec cd, and at any 10-30 sec life cycle because it slowly gives out stealth and allows restealthing and is mobile

I didn’t realize SR took the elite spot and came with a 5k health bar.

hes talking about letting it become invisible. it has no attacks, so it cant unstealth without counterplay thats only provided by ranger and engi, and its a binary guessing game that will be really boring. do you hit with your sneak gyro toolbelt? no? welp, he got away. yes? welp, you have a 6 sec timer before it happens again, and your toolbelt isnt on a 6 sec cd.

its not that hard to see that this is a terrible suggestion.

Well, you commended on the skill as a whole. I don’t like OP’s edit, either, because it’s entirely pvp-biased, and it’s backwards-thinking to buff the skill for pvp when this is the game mode that’s causing this change in the first place.

well on the whole, id list it as a pro that sneak is an elite. compared to sr as a utility.

Nah what we srsly need here is go back to splitting skills for game modes. It was one of announced features for gw2 befor release and they drop it shortly after because casuals had hard time to understand. Well its time to learn your classes casuals because non spliting crippling the game more and more.

Chaith.8256:

So from the balance discussion on Guild Chat, the developers talked about Sneak Gyro going to a 40 second cooldown from a 20 second cooldown.

Now, since the elite part about this elite skill is no longer about a short cooldown stealth, that gives me an interesting idea for a secondary change to Sneak Gyro.

Drum roll,

The permanent reveal on Sneak Gyro is changed to only last 5 seconds, counting down from when it is activated.

Meaning, on the third pulse, the Sneak Gyro would cloak as well, and then the mind games would begin. Edit: Reducing the duration of the Gyro from 30 seconds to 20 seconds would be necessary.

Adding a ton of depth to planned, pre-casted stealth plays on the Engineer’s part.

I think I could learn to love the new Sneak Gyro CD if it had an extra mechanic as such added on.

Cheers’

I would love that the stealth gyro works actually as stealth, and not just as a improved kite/detarget bot, but then we compare it to Shadow Refuge, which has exactly the same problem, or Mass Invi, who doesnt have it but has 90s cd and traited 7,5s stealth makes me wonder if then it would not be broken :/

The counterplay to a sneak gyro is to have an explosion skill such as gunflame, aim for the gyro u hit the engi in stealth gg

JamboHammer.4397:

The counterplay to a sneak gyro is to have an explosion skill such as gunflame, aim for the gyro u hit the engi in stealth gg

Which will not happen if the Stealth gyro stealth himself

Krysard.1364:

I would love that the stealth gyro works actually as stealth, and not just as a improved kite/detarget bot, but then we compare it to Shadow Refuge, which has exactly the same problem, or Mass Invi, who doesn’t have it but has 90s cd and traited 7,5s stealth makes me wonder if then it would not be broken :/

TY for saving me the time to point out the obvious here. Also take a gander at the casting time for MI… 1.75 seconds vs. instant, and it is well telegraphed.

I think Sneak Gyro will be used about the same as it is now, and will still be a great Elite with a still pretty low CD.

it’s still great.

nerf was deserved. it had too high uptime for pvp.

choovanski.5462:

it’s still great.

nerf was deserved. it had too high uptime for pvp.

For pvp, yes.

It’s the final nail in the scrapper’s coffin for pve, though. It’s beyond idiotic for pvp to dictate the balance for all game modes, to the point that engineer practically has no elite spec in pve.

RabbitUp.8294:

choovanski.5462:

it’s still great.

nerf was deserved. it had too high uptime for pvp.

For pvp, yes.

It’s the final nail in the scrapper’s coffin for pve, though. It’s beyond idiotic for pvp to dictate the balance for all game modes, to the point that engineer practically has no elite spec in pve.

it will still do the same thing in pve. the cd doesnt matter. in HoT maps, there are adrenal mushrooms. in non-HoT maps, you dont need to run around stealthed as much and you wont notice the difference.

Stealth Gyro should just have permanent damage immunity for its entire duration as well.

and make it pulse fire field every second.

insanemaniac.2456:

it will still do the same thing in pve. the cd doesnt matter. in HoT maps, there are adrenal mushrooms. in non-HoT maps, you dont need to run around stealthed as much and you wont notice the difference.

All the more reasons to not nerf it in PvE as well, then, if it isn’t that useful to start with.
Also, even if as stealth it isn’t necessarily useful, it was still a Final Salvo proc on a 20s cooldown if one wanted to use it for that purpose.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Stealth Gyro should just have permanent damage immunity for its entire duration as well.

and make it pulse fire field every second.

Can’t have damage immunity on top of a 5 second reveal at the start, that’s the window where you’re supposed to hypothetically kill the Gyro, haha.

Pulsing every second also would really highlight problems with the pathing. As it stands right now, whenever the Gyro catches up to you, it freezes for 2 agonizingly long seconds, and if you’re moving, you leave the field. You’d drop stealth constantly if it pulsed for 1s every 1s.

you’re so right, the entire gyro area should just be a walking fire field.

Darknicrofia.2604:

you’re so right, the entire gyro area should just be a walking fire field.

that apply 7 stacks of burn every second, yea

Dimes.6024:

Darknicrofia.2604:

you’re so right, the entire gyro area should just be a walking fire field.

that apply 7 stacks of burn every second, yea

Yay! Let’s raise hell on the warrior forums, as well… and the ele.

Oh, and it pulses out a boon which makes our attacks unblockable.

Even 40 seconds cd is not enough… It’s scrapper, hello? – most broken class in current meta.

Ohhh nooo, I can’t speed past those pocket raptors as fast.

But seriously, those maps were quite difficult without stealth.

RabbitUp.8294:

As a pve player mainly, Scrapper no longer has an elite spec for me. Yes, playing with the hammer was fun for a while, but it’s suboptimal DPS, so I stick with condi pistols. And all gyros are terrible now. I love it when Guardians complain about their 4 Spirit weapons, and here I am, with all these turrets and gyros.

But when I was roaming, or playing with more laid-back groups, I did tend to switch to Scrapper and slot Sneak Gyro. Stealth rezzing, dropping aggro, gathering resources without pesky mobs annoying me, I knew it was up for use. But not anymore. Pvp dictates the balance once more, taking small steps is not a concept in Anet’s heads, and now engineer doesn’t get to play along with the cool kids in the expansion.

We are the jack of no trades, a condi dps dealer with no utility that’s being outshined by the soon-to-be-buffed Berserker.

Completely agree with you and I too used sneak gyro to bypass the horrible open world pve mobs to do my gathering. Might end up changing scrapper for alchemy line since all the gyros will be useless now.

ArchonWing.9480:

Ohhh nooo, I can’t speed past those pocket raptors as fast.

But seriously, those maps were quite difficult without stealth.

We joke about this, but I won’t lie. Putting pocket raptors mobs next to every other Flax node is half the reason I run Stealth Gyro. I just want to make some Linseed Oil without a reenactment of Jurassic Park.

archmagus.7249:

Dimes.6024:

Darknicrofia.2604:

you’re so right, the entire gyro area should just be a walking fire field.

that apply 7 stacks of burn every second, yea

Yay! Let’s raise hell on the warrior forums, as well… and the ele.

Oh, and it pulses out a boon which makes our attacks unblockable.

(i would put even a 99% chance of dropping vulnerability and bleeding)
XDDDDD

Nilix.2170:

ArchonWing.9480:

Ohhh nooo, I can’t speed past those pocket raptors as fast.

But seriously, those maps were quite difficult without stealth.

We joke about this, but I won’t lie. Putting pocket raptors mobs next to every other Flax node is half the reason I run Stealth Gyro. I just want to make some Linseed Oil without a reenactment of Jurassic Park.

Cast hammer 5 on pocket raptors, cast 3 in it, to daze all of them, use 4 and follow up with 2, all dead.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Nilix.2170:

ArchonWing.9480:

Ohhh nooo, I can’t speed past those pocket raptors as fast.

But seriously, those maps were quite difficult without stealth.

We joke about this, but I won’t lie. Putting pocket raptors mobs next to every other Flax node is half the reason I run Stealth Gyro. I just want to make some Linseed Oil without a reenactment of Jurassic Park.

Cast hammer 5 on pocket raptors, cast 3 in it, to daze all of them, use 4 and follow up with 2, all dead.

Does hammer 3 in a lightning field actually daze aoe? I’m not sure about this, I thought it just dazes the target and not everyone hit by the skill. Can someone confirm?