Guild Wars 2

I think anyone who tries to claim that the Engineer isn’t littered with flaws, glitches and broken mechanics is someone who is just playing devils advocate.
However anyone who thinks that all professions don’t have their share of flaws, glitches and broken mechanics is someone who is just being foolish.

I can say from my experience that I am almost always the sole Engineer in every pug grp I run and have even been booted or not accepted to grps because I was an Engineer. So saying that Engineers are one of, if not the most unplayed profession is probally a very true statement.

Doesn’t mean we suck though..

What ppl don’t understand is Engineers are probally the funnest profession to play, you litterally have tools for anyway you want to play. So if you are looking to have fun, which means actually having a challenge when you play, then engi’s aren’t so bad, you just have to make full use of your 17-21 skills to really be effective.

Thats why Engineers aren’t played as much, it takes too much effort to be as effective as the other professions. Just look at 90% of YT vids of thiefs owning, they down multiple ppl using #1,#5 and a few utilities. You can do this with an Engineer it will just involve switching kits multiple times, making full use of fields and finishers, superior dodgeing and probally a little luck.

I personally think tht is the fun part when I manage to use all my skills in somewhat perfect synergy to finish off an enemy or group of mobs. But thts not fun for most ppl so they will play the professions that allow them to have an “ultimate” build for max damage output while using the least amount of effort, like in WoW.

TLDR – My bet is by the end of the year the Engineer will receive some changes that will make it a FoTM profession. Which is what always happens to the “underdog” professions in the great balancing act.

Raideen.5973:

bhansen.7251:

Im not saying that all builds are equally good, but i still play my engineer as my main and i think its one of the most powerfull classes currently in the game, even with the bugged skills and traits. I have about 6k wvw kills with most of those being solo. I have lost 1 1v1 fight in all my time spent in wvw and most 1v1 is just a 1-sided fight with my apponent being immobolized till dead.
Why people think its a crappy class is beyond my understanding. Its on par with the mesmer and stronger then the thief. I dont know what the hell u guys are doing, but its wrong. When our traits gets fixed its gonna be even more faceroll when i play it. My personal record is to beat 7v1 in wvw. Sure they were baddies, but even 7 baddies should kill 1 guy.
Learn your spec/skills and rotations. Learn your apponents.

and yet, you previously stated about 4 days ago “Mesmer and thief are the most powerful 1v1 classes atm. A well played mesmer can kill any player with equal skill level. But for the most part its not all about the classes. The games re-rendering of character entering and exiting stealth is broken and when that gets fixed it will be another story”.

Also, please enlighten us with you gear, spec, gems, hacks…because no engineer is going to take on 7 people that are attacking him. And as far as winning 1v1 is every 1v1 encounter, I would like to see some videos of this as long as they are 80 in full exotic gear…because your claims are too fantastic to be believable, discrediting everything you say.

Also. I think the overall point you and so many are missing is that the engineer is not a class you can just “pick up” and start doing well with. It takes more key push cycles, more effort and juggling to do well, you mess up once on a GCD and you are dead. Most other classes are not plagued with this problem, not to the extent engineers are.

If the class is designed to be a “hard” class to play, then Arenanet needs to let people know that up front. The assumption is (and rightfully so) that all classes are balanced the same. But with warriors, thieves etc etc clearly showing us they are not…it leaves the player who picks a random class or on that looks cool to them at a disadvantage. There is a reason warriors are the number 1 played class, because they are easy to play and do very well with minimal effort.

People are like water, they take the path of least resistance. A class that is made to be easy and powerful will always dominate the player base. A person with the same skill who plays an engineer vs a same skilled person who plays a warrior, will always lose to that warrior and that is the complain from most people here.

I agree that the engineer is harder than many other classes to play but it’s part of the appeal, similar kind of thing with ele.

Saying that though, the engineer rewards skillful play quite well.

If we’re talking about bad engi vs bad warrior yes warrior will win every time. However the skillcap for engineers is quite a bit higher than warriors so if we’re talking about good engi vs good warrior then it’s actually in the engineers favour due to the ammount of control he has over the fight.

This class is not underpowered, its just really buggy and lacks polish.

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

Let’s face it.
Engineers are just not finished.
What is your point of view?

I was surprised at this post. The whole way up to 80 I felt that Engineer was over powered and probably going to be nerfed at some point. I’ve been trying thief, guardian, and elementalist and so far I’ve been struggling to pull of the dps that came so naturally to my engineer. When I reached 80 I still had some level 24 gear that I figured I’d upgrade if I found something better or came up against something that gave me any trouble.

Overall I just thought the game was made to be easy. Until I tried those other characters. Being afraid of 2 enemies at the same time when my Engineer was taking on 5 at a time at this point was an eye opener.

I don’t want this to sound like a “How great am I” commentary, I think it was all in the Engineer class that gave me that power.

For any struggling Engineers, go with Inventions, turrets, flamethrower, and pistols and you should do fine. At 80 I switched up to grenades and explosives and holy cow it puts my pistol damage to shame.

Punk Rogue.9856:

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

Let’s face it.
Engineers are just not finished.
What is your point of view?

I was surprised at this post. The whole way up to 80 I felt that Engineer was over powered and probably going to be nerfed at some point. I’ve been trying thief, guardian, and elementalist and so far I’ve been struggling to pull of the dps that came so naturally to my engineer. When I reached 80 I still had some level 24 gear that I figured I’d upgrade if I found something better or came up against something that gave me any trouble.

Overall I just thought the game was made to be easy. Until I tried those other characters. Being afraid of 2 enemies at the same time when my Engineer was taking on 5 at a time at this point was an eye opener.

I don’t want this to sound like a “How great am I” commentary, I think it was all in the Engineer class that gave me that power.

For any struggling Engineers, go with Inventions, turrets, flamethrower, and pistols and you should do fine. At 80 I switched up to grenades and explosives and holy cow it puts my pistol damage to shame.

I think most of us are quite agree to say engineer is an easy class to reach lvl 80 however in pvp it’s another story.

Well in PvE the bugs and other stuff are just annoying, it would be nice and convenient, but I can still handel a lot of enemies (up to 7 enemies, in cursed shore!) as an engineer.

But PvP is a completely diffirent story…

Why is PvP another story?
What makes you struggle so much in PvP?

Siofra Crumble.2098:

Why is PvP another story?
What makes you struggle so much in PvP?

I would have to ask the same question. Engineer has a reputation for being very great and versatile in PvP. The general consensus is that they are miles stronger in straight PvP then in any other game mode.

coglin.1496:

Siofra Crumble.2098:

Why is PvP another story?
What makes you struggle so much in PvP?

I would have to ask the same question. Engineer has a reputation for being very great and versatile in PvP. The general consensus is that they are miles stronger in straight PvP then in any other game mode.

Pretty much this, SPvP is normally close-medium ranged combat where engineers excel.

SPvP doesn’t have stats on weapons.

It’s really hard to win (for example) from a thief or a warrior in 1v1. We just can’t do as much burst damage as they can. But perhaps we just differ from opinion about what we find ‘good’.

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

It’s really hard to win (for example) from a thief or a warrior in 1v1. We just can’t do as much burst damage as they can. But perhaps we just differ from opinion about what we find ‘good’.

this is interesting because warriors say engi’s (especially bunker engi’s) are one of the hardest to kill 1v1

ive also seen many engi’s take on crazy odds like 1v4+ they really excel in small enclosed spaces….

It’s true that there’s quite a number of things not working, but really the engi’s finished to me, and I’m not just sayin, I’ve won over 200 matches (genius title to prove it), and I truly wish flamethrower worked properly.

Weak…i dont agree. Need of adjustments and better design. Absolutely. Engineer is “and it shows” a profession that didnt get enough time in the design phase as many other professions. It is “and it shows” a slap together of ideas. On the flipside though…i dont think its weak. It doesnt do what most people would expect or want it to do…thats a design flaw imo…it should have been designed to fit peoples wants and desires and expectations. But i’ve made it work, i fill several roles and can do things other professions simply cant do and i ALWAYS kick total kitten in spvp (and i’m willing to back that up). On the other hand (as several other professions suffer) we dont have a wide variety of viable paths of play, we suffer in pve satisfaction due to few weapon options and one of our prim abilitys (kits) covering up the weapons we earned (which the end game mega rewards are weapon skins), and our turrets are lack luster, and the rng on potions make them scary to use in spvp.

Well now that you pointed out those problems @Zinwrath I want to change what I posted above.

I agree on kits hiding out weapons, I agree on the lack of builds that don’t use kits, about turrets they just need to rework’em quite a lot.

It’s just that it would need a lot of work to fix it design-wise, I’d say try and suggest some ideas just keep in mind, viable ideas.

I actually wish kits would change looks depending on weapons, but I don’t see that happening simply because of the amount of work it’d take, just the textures and the models would be a lot, and even so only usable by engineers.

I feel kind of sad to see such a great design (‘coz I can understand they actually wanted a lot of things on the engineer) just that half the stuff wasn’t exactly done… well?

That aside pvp’s fine atm, if you don’t consider/use/like turrets AND flamethrower’s 1-2 skills

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

It’s really hard to win (for example) from a thief or a warrior in 1v1. We just can’t do as much burst damage as they can. But perhaps we just differ from opinion about what we find ‘good’.

What information or fact do you base this on? Are you referring to PUGs, because most higher tier skill players would totally disagree with, at least that is the consensus I always run across.

Engineer is fine!
Why just the other day I took on a 30 vs 1 in WvWvW with Tool Kit and Rocket Turret.
My personal goal is 50 vs 1 but when that happens I think we will get nerfed!

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

It’s really hard to win (for example) from a thief or a warrior in 1v1. We just can’t do as much burst damage as they can. But perhaps we just differ from opinion about what we find ‘good’.

Yes we can’t burst anything like as well as these classes but generally similar geared and skilled engi will kill these classes 1v1.

Raideen.5973:

All I know is that regardless of gear, spec or weapon. When a warrior, guardian or thief get on top of me, its 4 hits and game over….yet another 1.62 silver spent.

Engineers should be able to burn down as fast as we get burnt down.

And frankly, I am tired of spending gold regearing, regemming and respeccing just to find that all specs end up the same…not enough damage output for the amount of damage we take.

Lol. Sucks to suck? Idk man, that’s all I’ve got for you, if gear and spec changes haven’t helped you, then you should probably switch classes. The engineer is powerful, versatile, and easily a match for any other class in the game in WvW (which is what I’m assuming you’re playing).

@Rfreak I think any change that improves the satisfaction of the player is a viable change. If it is an issue of resources to get the job done or a change ruins something that most players enjoy about the profession, only then is there a true issue at hand.

But, changing these problems is easier than most realize. Atleast to a state that is more pleasant that would tie over till a more amazing fix could be put in…i’ll give examples.

1. Weapon skins (legendarys etc) being unsatisfactory due to kits covering them up.
Take flamethrower/elixer gun….keep the backpack that appears for these skins, but keep your normal weapon skin….we can assume the engineer modified his rifle/pistol to shoot flames/etc…much like offhand pistol is modified to do, and rifle is modified to shoot nets etc. As for EVERY other kit….REMOVE the backpack and allow you to still see your awsome shield/rifle even pistol holstered atleast. Sure you wont be firing it off during this time, but you can still SEE your accomplishment and so can everyone else so it doesnt feel like all your efforts are to waste because you wanted to build a nice flamethrower kit build etc. Easy fix…no reason it couldnt be done in one patch, could better things be done? Yes…but they would take a lot of resources as you mentioned, this is a fair compromise for present satisfaction.

2. RNG on potions. There has been several solutions …take elixer U, it gives you randomly 1 of 3 negative buffs from 3 other professions. Create a new engineer specific debuff. Perhaps while active a little of all 3…30% less healing, 15% increased damage taken, 30% slower stamina regen. Realisticly the potions show the biggest lack ov innovation and make it most obvious that this profession was slapped together. Most the RNG is (randomly going to cast another professions ability because we didnt have time to design and test abilitys specific to the engineer). Elixer X just does other professions ultimates. Elixer H should always give you regen/protection imo but offer less healing (some of the healing would be transfered over to the regen) swiftness does not need to be on it. Wow i just fixed elixer H to not be random and ALWAYS useful. Wasnt hard. next problem.

3. Turrets are lack luster. I started to write up this, but realized i have to spend SO much time explaining why what arenanet did with them…actually is correct for them to work in this game before i explain what they need to be fixed…for this i’d have to write a whole new thread as it takes forever….but simply put (trust me i have reasons). Focus on over drive effects of turrets a little more, offer AE damage reduction (atleast in pve) and scaling stats (on overdrive effects if nothing else). Also turret traits need moved around, increased damage for turrets trait should be moved to the power tree just like the necromancer and gaurdians pet traits are…not at the end of the healing/toughness tree. All in all turrets are not that far off of being fun, tbh i would use gaurdians pets as the example of how ALL utility slots pets should work. Balanced to meet every other utility, something you click for an edge in a situation for a duration then its gone. ya… i would make turrets go ape after you drop em run out of ammo and self destruct..i would slightly lower their cd’s and ramp up their effectiveness. Would it be a popular choice? No, people want to build TF2 engineer turrets and stand next to them beating them with a wrench, realisticly that does not fit into the play style, and any kind of (i build a fort on a cap point) play style is toxic for the game…and would require turrets to be as weak as they are now to compensate for the advantage that offers. Anyway, a compromise can be made, but thats what i’d do.

Anyway, sorry got off on the turret thing…but my point is basicly, these problems arent that hard to fix or would they require that many resources. Not talking about adding anything just some numbers and crap shifted around and bam…problems solved. Everything else about the engineer (as far as viable builds) is entirely a problem revolved around bad or weak or poorly placed traits and some utilitys not being defined enough. notice i didnt say weak…defined is making an ability so good at doing one thing that you can say…“ya i should take that instead for this situation because nothing else can do anything close”, the changes they made to the mine kit was an attempt at defining it….also some things are just weak.

wow, getting booted out of a group just because you’re an engineer? that’s dumb, I hope this doesn’t happen a lot at higher levels because I play an engineer too(

It is a bummer that kits hide weapons, but I kind of got over it, if they do fix this then that’s awesome.

I don’t know if anyone else wants this, being able to put a kit onto the weapon switch box would be friggin awesome! Because it is a pain to keep clicking on the skill since they are so far out on the number line. If we could put one kit that we most frequently use onto the weapon switch, this would help cut down on the annoyance of switching kits. I mean we don’t have the option to swap weapon sets like other classes do.

OrangeMint.7980:

wow, getting booted out of a group just because you’re an engineer? that’s dumb, I hope this doesn’t happen a lot at higher levels because I play an engineer too(

It is a bummer that kits hide weapons, but I kind of got over it, if they do fix this then that’s awesome.

I don’t know if anyone else wants this, being able to put a kit onto the weapon switch box would be friggin awesome! Because it is a pain to keep clicking on the skill since they are so far out on the number line. If we could put one kit that we most frequently use onto the weapon switch, this would help cut down on the annoyance of switching kits. I mean we don’t have the option to swap weapon sets like other classes do.

I’ve only been booted once or twice so i dont see it as a huge problem. If they’re so ridiculous they’re gonna boot you over your profession …then, prob a group you dont want in anyway.

As for the kit-weapon thing. Not sure i understand what you want. You can always bind a button to the utility where you use a kit(s). If your asking for a kit to not take a utility slot and just function as a swappable weapon. I cant say that this is impossible….but it would require a lot of things to change. You’d almost have to go back to square one on many things and tool belt might take a hit (and i love toolbelt). While i woulda liked for us to have more of an attunement type set up with kits for more diverse play and to free up some utility slots. The toolbelt is what makes us unique and i feel this would take away from that…. honestly this is something that i highly doubt will happen and if it does i wouldnt expect it anytime soon. I wont lie and say i dont think it would be fun, but a lot of balance and adjustments would have to happen including a CD on weapon swapping which you may not like.

I’ve never had any issues on my engineer, getting groups, or doing well in pvp. Heck a good engineer brings a lot of nice support and utility to a team in pvp or pve.

Only thing I would love to see is having kits copy your weapon’s stats and sigil, so they scale up properly in pve.

@Zinwrath: That’s true, I wouldn’t even want to group with those type of people anyways, the whole dungeon run would be too uptight.

Yea I meant functioning as a swappable weapon kind of thing. But I get what you mean, this would take a lot of work to make special adjustments for kits. It’s just hard swapping kits in a middle of a epic fight xD
Is there an easier way to do this? I mean, I could keep practicing until it becomes 2nd nature, but as of now I have to take a moment to pause, look down, and click/hit key.

Ya Orangemint, i mean i bind one of my mouse buttons to it. I think its just one of those things that will come with practice and eventually you wont even think about it. You might even bind it to one of the buttons on your keyboard near your movement keys for easy access. I pvp a lot so i swap in and out of kits constantly to always take advantage of the long cd abilitys. It was tricky at first but be patient with it, like all things eventually it’ll be second nature.

I just wanted to make sure yo know i do think your idea would be fun…its not a bad idea just probably unlikely they will do it due to the time it would take to alter everything.

In term of pvp.
I still have in my mind this question…
What does the engineer really have??

You might say he has a bit of control with the rifle.
But when i compare with other class : they actually all have some.
Or also condition damage.
but i clearly think he is not the best to make efficient damage.
General damage is not that good :
the best crit I’ve ever done is around 3k.
Different kits that make you versatile : but does that make you better ?

I’ve tried mesmer and thief today following some build i’ve found on youtube.
I was using skills without really knowing what they do.
And it’s just so simple. lots of damage. if something goes wrong I would use furtivity and come back later.

Being booted for being an engineer is bad, i got booted for not tanking the boss on my Warrior:(

Engineer does need tweaks, atleast in PvE. I tried loads of builds before i just started playing my warrior (control healing shouts, not signet burst before people go ape kitten). And all of them looked to be really good, then i had to ask ‘does this REALLY beat the high damage and 25 stacks of vuln and chill and poison field and bleeding of grenades?’ And it never did, so i always ended up going back to grenades, which bore me.

Grenades need to reach their target faster, and other weapons need to hit like grenades. Only then will i feel comfortable with my pistol spec or flamer. I know other weapons have different functions, but i just wanted a no kit DPS build, and grenades being the best at bleed AND DD is a bit overkill. And absolutely yummy if you spec carrion armor, reaping all those rewards!

I recently tried grenades with condition spec.

With decent crit and grenadier trait, grenades out dps pistol. There is no weapon with any spec that compares to the dps grenades put out.

Even without grenadier trait it pulls ahead by a not so small ammount.

Engineer main weapons are ridiculously bad for doing damage.

I actually NEVER said engineer suck.
I said engineers are not finished.

Turrets need lots of work imo, a bunch of bug fixes and weapon scaling, a proper melee/long range option.

Some of you guys agree with me, others don’t.
For those who do not: I think the above noted points are not ‘just a few things’. It makes what engineers are. Rifles, turrets, some of the traits do not work, the kits. It does not work well.

Anyone who thinks engineers are finished are wong. And for coglin: there are facts.

Raideen.5973:

bhansen.7251:

Im not saying that all builds are equally good, but i still play my engineer as my main and i think its one of the most powerfull classes currently in the game, even with the bugged skills and traits. I have about 6k wvw kills with most of those being solo. I have lost 1 1v1 fight in all my time spent in wvw and most 1v1 is just a 1-sided fight with my apponent being immobolized till dead.
Why people think its a crappy class is beyond my understanding. Its on par with the mesmer and stronger then the thief. I dont know what the hell u guys are doing, but its wrong. When our traits gets fixed its gonna be even more faceroll when i play it. My personal record is to beat 7v1 in wvw. Sure they were baddies, but even 7 baddies should kill 1 guy.
Learn your spec/skills and rotations. Learn your apponents.

and yet, you previously stated about 4 days ago “Mesmer and thief are the most powerful 1v1 classes atm. A well played mesmer can kill any player with equal skill level. But for the most part its not all about the classes. The games re-rendering of character entering and exiting stealth is broken and when that gets fixed it will be another story”.

Also, please enlighten us with you gear, spec, gems, hacks…because no engineer is going to take on 7 people that are attacking him. And as far as winning 1v1 is every 1v1 encounter, I would like to see some videos of this as long as they are 80 in full exotic gear…because your claims are too fantastic to be believable, discrediting everything you say.

Also. I think the overall point you and so many are missing is that the engineer is not a class you can just “pick up” and start doing well with. It takes more key push cycles, more effort and juggling to do well, you mess up once on a GCD and you are dead. Most other classes are not plagued with this problem, not to the extent engineers are.

If the class is designed to be a “hard” class to play, then Arenanet needs to let people know that up front. The assumption is (and rightfully so) that all classes are balanced the same. But with warriors, thieves etc etc clearly showing us they are not…it leaves the player who picks a random class or on that looks cool to them at a disadvantage. There is a reason warriors are the number 1 played class, because they are easy to play and do very well with minimal effort.

People are like water, they take the path of least resistance. A class that is made to be easy and powerful will always dominate the player base. A person with the same skill who plays an engineer vs a same skilled person who plays a warrior, will always lose to that warrior and that is the complain from most people here.

I understand that its just words now, so ill finnish up my video soon and post a link here in the engineer forum. Im sorry if i sounded kitteny in that last reply, but i really do believe the engineer is really powerful. As is a thief and mesmer.. in the right hands, most of the callings are deadly if utilized.

Every class has a laundry list of bugs and underwhelming, unfinished traits.

Engineers fare far better than most in a PvP setting. The potential is there to excel at many things at once…the key is to optimize your skills and learn the timings on when and how to use your skills.

Having problems with Warriors? Get a stun breaker, or if you don’t want to do that, at least use toolkit#4, or slick shoes, or rocket boots…etc. to get away. There’s zero reason to die to a warrior in a 1 vs 1 – if you can’t kill him, at least you can easily run away.

Engineer is one of the few classes that can reliably kill a glass cannon thief 1 vs 1 because of the vast amount of CCs we have access to. Vs a bunker or perma stealth thief you aren’t going to kill him…but he also isn’t going to kill you. It’s the same vs Mesmers – engineers have a much easier time taking on mesmers on equal footing than just about any other classes between our CCs, spamable aoes to keep clones/phantasm from building up to critical mass, and high single target DPS via rifle. If you want to gank, engineers can gank with the best – 20-25k reliable burst damage in 5 seconds is easily achievable, and if you land a net (because you got the jump), that damage is unavoidable short of block or invul.

Eventually Anet is going to get around to fixing all the unfinished details for all classes, and in the mean time, we have it pretty good.

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

It’s really hard to win (for example) from a thief or a warrior in 1v1. We just can’t do as much burst damage as they can. But perhaps we just differ from opinion about what we find ‘good’.

Engi has some of the most insane levels of burst it isnt even funny. I am talking downing 3+ players in the space of a few seconds. Sure if anything gets hold you you its game over, but thats the most fun with being a engi.

I would say going all in glass cannon (either nading it which is my fave, or going for a condition build) which ever flavor you like, and make it work.

I will say though, engi is not the easiest to get to grips with. I played many games on my warrior and ranger, tried thief but just felt they were all boring, although I appreciate once you learn more about any class they are all fun. But the engi is just SUCH a huge difference in style of play for PVP. You can pretty much control games with some smart placement.

My biggest tip for any PVP is know the Engis biggest weakness, melee. You dont have any, and you will get chewed up if you hang around too long, and dodging away all the time isnt possible long term. So go high, as in move to places that are hard to reach, or hang back from the main battle and just nade the hell out of everything. The rifle is also pretty beasty, when you consider how much uptime you can get with it.

Most of the battle with Engis is positioning and movement.

Engi thrives on close to medium range combat, idk what you talking about. And melee classes we have far more ways to control them than they have to kill us. Dodging is all that comes to your head?

Rifle knockback.
Rifle net.
Pistol shield knockback.
Pistol glue.
Pistol stun.
Flamethrower knockback.
Flamethrower blind.
Big bomb knockback.
Bomb kit immobilise and snare.
Bomb kit blind field.
Rocket boots.
Slick shoes.
Net turret.
Elixir S.
Ram util.
Mine knockback.
Supply drop stun.

Kryptorchid.7620:

coglin.1496:

I think your use of the term “convoluted” is a bit misleading here, and I think I understand the point you are trying to make. I have to disagree with it though. So what if I have to hit 2 key strokes? or hit a key twice for a secondary function on a skill? Engineers use those skills all day for their general and original purpose of said skill. The only difference in using that skill in a fields, is to do the exact same thing we do all day to execute the skill, only we direct it through a field. That doesn’t actually make it more tedious. At least not in my opinion. I think it is your perception that makes it appear tedious.

My point really wasn’t about taking advantage of combos; I was more trying to point out how many more key presses we have to make to use our abilities. <— This is what I am alluding to when I use the term “convoluted.”

Absolutely correct there, just look at the #1 ability in grenade kit on land. perfect example. The other thing that strikes me is the extremely long time after picking up a turret before one can put it down again, this shouldn’t be more then ten seconds because we didn’t destroy it so we don’t have to build it again which technically would require more time to do then just setting it down and turning it on.

I believe the Engineer to be the ‘sleeper profession’. Just wait. It’ll become the Flavor of the Month

Engineer’s dps when done right is way better than people think. The amount of self buffs we can stack is crazy. I can achieve 14 stacks of might by myself. Boss killing is a specialty of the engineer IMO. The amount of condition damage is insane when you dual pistol with elixirs. We can also apply heavy heavy stacks of vulnerability.

Try this build out for a dungeon.

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.6.0.20.0.0.0.0.0.79.88.87.95.0.0.0.0.229.0.0.245.248.251.0.0.0.272.277.281.0.0.0.10.30.0.30.0

I use this build for trash mobs and non boss fights very high AoE Damage with flamethrower while elixirs coupled with Juggernaut im averaging about 10-14 stacks of might with 82% crit chance while under fury 92% crit chance if i have fury and the mob is below 50% hp

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.6.0.20.0.0.0.0.0.79.88.87.98.0.0.0.0.229.0.0.245.246.252.0.0.0.272.275.281.0.0.0.10.30.0.30.0

I use this build for bosses or gold mobs very high single target condition damage with good backup AoE if boss has adds. With the goggles and elixir b you should only have 6secs downtime without fury and if you go 2 fury runes on amour you should be able to keep fury up through the whole fight or most of it. Analyze also makes boss fights much easier for the whole party.