Guild Wars 2

Every class has well thought out options for escape, defense, or self healing in order to return to the fight faster with less assistance accept engineers. In an attempt to start a dialogue with the dev team, I am outlining some of the major questions engineers are concerned about. Please feel free to add your thoughts.

We have alot of great tech as options that are already in our traits such as cloaking devices, magnetic shielding, blocking with a giant gear shield, explosives, why can’t we use these abilities while downed to help facilitate our own self rally?

Also, why is condition damage not an option for downed state damage? Why can’t our #1 ability be throwing minor explosives that do burning condition damage, or mini grenades?

I would love to see the hook let us choose between pulling the enemy to us or pulling us to the enemy. This could allow us to move away from stompers insteadof pulling them to us.

I would like our auto-attack in downed state to be something slightly more impressive than a rock. For the masters of preparation and strategy, we really should be able to come up with something a little more dramatic than a damn rock.

My own, probably not popular idea, was to have the HOOK be the thing with the long cooldown, and the bomb be instantly ready as soon as we hit the ground. It’s not a normal bomb though; its’ a self destruct button. Hitting it does its’ regular damage with significantly more damage if we use it while we have more downed HP.

This forces people to be less gun-ho about stomping the engineer; you’d want to back off and chip away some of his HP so that he doesn’t just outright kill you with the bomb. At the same time, you need to hurry it up because once he gets his rope ready, he might just pull you over and end you both. Meanwhile the Engineer needs to decide between detonating himself or holding out for a heal.

Its’ mindgames for everyone, and I love it.

I like the suicide idea on the bomb, I’ve seen suggested.
We already can not escape, right.

Warrior 3 kills them. Even if they kill their target, they are not guaranteed to rally. (can be traited)

our 3 should defeat us, but do like 30k damage to a 2600 armor target.

Hmm .. if you´re solo-PvE player, that is just lvl-ing .. it might prove to be an issue .. but for the “rest” of us – I pray they won´t touch the current setup – cos they would screw us even more, after all It´s already quite powerful.

Since most of proper Engineers don´t bother to reply to this meaningles topic, I´ll be the necessary arshole. You are semi-eng, since you didn´t realize anything and thus, I will adress ya this way .. so listen carefuly, I hate to repeat this valuable lesson each day ..

First skill “Throw Junk” .. it goes with lore .. point number two, observe what it does – it gives a random condition upon your target .. RANDOM – which means, it might pop up a “control condition” – immobilize, slow, fear ..
Second skill “Grappling Line” .. canceling channeling skills, moving enemy .. and providing CONTROL even if downed. (..wait for it..)
Lastly “Booby Trap” .. another control skill when downed – providing knockback effect .. and most importantly – COMBO FINISHER !!

So, my beloved “brainiacs” .. after you reach lvl 80, doing stuff solo is only for fun, or relax .. but to gain something valuable you always need at least 2-4x more ppl. For whatever you want to gain, or do .. our Downed skills are THE BEST .. no class has so much control in downed state. And if you get a capable group with ya – that combo finisher is indeed priceless. So I´ll stress it again .. ArenaNET – don´t touch downed state .. rest of you guys – learn how to play within the merits of a group – there lays the true power of ENG profession.

allways.9270:

Hmm .. if you´re solo-PvE player, that is just lvl-ing .. it might prove to be an issue .. but for the “rest” of us – I pray they won´t touch the current setup – cos they would screw us even more, after all It´s already quite powerful.

Since most of proper Engineers don´t bother to reply to this meaningles topic, I´ll be the necessary arshole. You are semi-eng, since you didn´t realize anything and thus, I will adress ya this way .. so listen carefuly, I hate to repeat this valuable lesson each day ..

First skill “Throw Junk” .. it goes with lore .. point number two, observe what it does – it gives a random condition upon your target .. RANDOM – which means, it might pop up a “control condition” – immobilize, slow, fear ..
Second skill “Grappling Line” .. canceling channeling skills, moving enemy .. and providing CONTROL even if downed. (..wait for it..)
Lastly “Booby Trap” .. another control skill when downed – providing knockback effect .. and most importantly – COMBO FINISHER !!

So, my beloved “brainiacs” .. after you reach lvl 80, doing stuff solo is only for fun, or relax .. but to gain something valuable you always need at least 2-4x more ppl. For whatever you want to gain, or do .. our Downed skills are THE BEST .. no class has so much control in downed state. And if you get a capable group with ya – that combo finisher is indeed priceless. So I´ll stress it again .. ArenaNET – don´t touch downed state .. rest of you guys – learn how to play within the merits of a group – there lays the true power of ENG profession.

Random=bleedinged, chilled or weakness in this case.

allways.9270:

Hmm .. if you´re solo-PvE player, that is just lvl-ing .. it might prove to be an issue .. but for the “rest” of us – I pray they won´t touch the current setup – cos they would screw us even more, after all It´s already quite powerful.

Since most of proper Engineers don´t bother to reply to this meaningles topic, I´ll be the necessary arshole. You are semi-eng, since you didn´t realize anything and thus, I will adress ya this way .. so listen carefuly, I hate to repeat this valuable lesson each day ..

First skill “Throw Junk” .. it goes with lore .. point number two, observe what it does – it gives a random condition upon your target .. RANDOM – which means, it might pop up a “control condition” – immobilize, slow, fear ..
Second skill “Grappling Line” .. canceling channeling skills, moving enemy .. and providing CONTROL even if downed. (..wait for it..)
Lastly “Booby Trap” .. another control skill when downed – providing knockback effect .. and most importantly – COMBO FINISHER !!

So, my beloved “brainiacs” .. after you reach lvl 80, doing stuff solo is only for fun, or relax .. but to gain something valuable you always need at least 2-4x more ppl. For whatever you want to gain, or do .. our Downed skills are THE BEST .. no class has so much control in downed state. And if you get a capable group with ya – that combo finisher is indeed priceless. So I´ll stress it again .. ArenaNET – don´t touch downed state .. rest of you guys – learn how to play within the merits of a group – there lays the true power of ENG profession.

Spoken like someone who has never stepped foot into any type of PvP. Maybe you should think before trying to call out other people “brainiac”.

Engi downed state is useless in WvW (I don’t sPvP but i imagine it is just as useless).

1. Here let me pull this target to me making it easier for them to finish me.
2. I can not think of a time where I have been downed in PvP that I’ve ever been able to use this.
   So basically we get a spam attack and a self heal. Other classes do have it pretty bad though but many have useful stuff.

If they want to keep the carebears like the guy I quoted happy. Well there are ways to keep things in line with lore without being useless in any kind of PvP setting.

WvW : If downed as a Engineer (without having thrown Elixir R before), you are dead.

Since i play, i can count on a single hand when my #4 skill was up in WvW.

In PvE not much than that…

EDIT Skill #3 not 4

Ho ! and pulling a mob to you as a dying medium armor guy don’t seem to me “a good idea”.

either change #2 so it pulls us towards someone or something away from the enemy. if not just let it staked us so all engineers can F themselves.

no. 1 could still be the Throw Junk but with more variety of conditions?
OR
“Blind Shot”: Spread-type rapid fire

no. 2 becomes the explosion.
OR
“Self-Resuscitation (elixir)” ala an ele’s vaporous form.

no. 3 becomes a long-ish cooldown for a mini turret. (which would go down quickly anyway because they’re so damn fragile)
OR
“Proto-type Teleportation Device” (#3 cooldowns are always so damn long though when you’re trying to get back up)

Possibly the only time #2’s pull would be useful is when you manage to escape into a zerg at WvW and pull someone close to have your allies finish them off, I guess? Because yeah, really, why do you want to pull someone closer to you when you’re dying?

I would like a rocket boots-like escape move : “Oh so you downed me ? But I can still flyyy-oh kitten the cliff !”

Orikx.9671:

allways.9270:

Hmm .. if you´re solo-PvE player, that is just lvl-ing .. it might prove to be an issue .. but for the “rest” of us – I pray they won´t touch the current setup – cos they would screw us even more, after all It´s already quite powerful.

Since most of proper Engineers don´t bother to reply to this meaningles topic, I´ll be the necessary arshole. You are semi-eng, since you didn´t realize anything and thus, I will adress ya this way .. so listen carefuly, I hate to repeat this valuable lesson each day ..

First skill “Throw Junk” .. it goes with lore .. point number two, observe what it does – it gives a random condition upon your target .. RANDOM – which means, it might pop up a “control condition” – immobilize, slow, fear ..
Second skill “Grappling Line” .. canceling channeling skills, moving enemy .. and providing CONTROL even if downed. (..wait for it..)
Lastly “Booby Trap” .. another control skill when downed – providing knockback effect .. and most importantly – COMBO FINISHER !!

So, my beloved “brainiacs” .. after you reach lvl 80, doing stuff solo is only for fun, or relax .. but to gain something valuable you always need at least 2-4x more ppl. For whatever you want to gain, or do .. our Downed skills are THE BEST .. no class has so much control in downed state. And if you get a capable group with ya – that combo finisher is indeed priceless. So I´ll stress it again .. ArenaNET – don´t touch downed state .. rest of you guys – learn how to play within the merits of a group – there lays the true power of ENG profession.

Spoken like someone who has never stepped foot into any type of PvP. Maybe you should think before trying to call out other people “brainiac”.

Engi downed state is useless in WvW (I don’t sPvP but i imagine it is just as useless).

1. Here let me pull this target to me making it easier for them to finish me.
2. I can not think of a time where I have been downed in PvP that I’ve ever been able to use this.
   So basically we get a spam attack and a self heal. Other classes do have it pretty bad though but many have useful stuff.

If they want to keep the carebears like the guy I quoted happy. Well there are ways to keep things in line with lore without being useless in any kind of PvP setting.

It’s actually quite useless in world events as well when we have lots of people around because we tend to not be able to activate #4 to heal even with someone else there, and we tend to not be able to help the situation to keep the mobs away or make them think we aren’t there. I’m quite sure this is a problem in dungeons as well altho it’s prolly not as glaring a problem there as every other situation we find ourselves in.

I’m quite sure that as an engineer in these forums, people are tired of hearing the phrase “lrn2play” as a solution to the problems with this class. Please be more constructive with your posts.

Well, I really hate eles and thiefs moving out of my res field. This is so tupid.

So moving after downed is not very good idea.

But some defensive ability would be nice. Like aoe blind or something.

I’d like engi to have tollbelt even after downed, but it would be too OP methinks.

Eles, thieves, mesmers, and warriors are too hard to execute. It takes too long, and it’s stupid that they’re so quickly able to use their stealth/get away abilities. I added Warriors because of Vengeance, or whatever it’s called.

Engineer down state is a joke, and I’m surprised it’s been this way for so long. The skills themselves are okay, although 2 is pretty stupid. I’d say lessen the CD on 3, and/or change 2 to a smoke cloud, or slippery oil or something.

I like the smoke cloud idea. It would be cool if it created a smoke field giving someone the option to use a blast finisher to get AoE stealth before reviving you.

Turn grapple into battering ram. Launch the enemy. Since grapple+boobyexplosion cheese is no longer an option, dont give it a huge setup time where you bleed out before it’s even ready.

Or, instead of booby trap, give engineer emergency rocket boots to blast himself further away and damage the enemy. He could blast himself back into his side of the zerg for a heal, or a smart enemy could position himself a distance behind the engineer and shoot him so that if he does use rocket boots, the engineer is just moving himself closer to the enemy for a stomp.

Yeah, this could make stomping an engineer super annoying, but what else does their downstate do? Sure wish I was an elementalist or a thief where I could just disappear and be unkillable. Besides, it’s the engineer. He should have all sorts of cheesy gadgets for fighting dirty.

Edit: didn’t read the cloud before posting. That sounds good too.

I’d like to see our hook changed to work like Overcharged Shot works. We would knockback one enemy that’s in melee range of us, but also knock ourselves back. The direction of our knockback would be opposite the way our camera is currently facing.

There’s two reasons for this change:

1) It allows us a chance to get out of harm’s way (which I think all #2 skills should do, if they are going to allow certain classes like Ele/thief/Mesmer to do it.)

2) This allows us to reposition our character to better make use of our booby trap. With this change, #2 and #3 would have greater synergy, since we could use #2 to set up #3 to have a maximum impact.

-Travail.

Well I guess they really weren’t interested in a dialogue with their community or we would see a post by now…..

For my 2cents I would like the Engi to have a better way of escape while downed.

I like the idea of being able to ourselves to something/someone with the 2 skill. Would be cool if I could shout at my mate to run out of the fight abit so I can hook into his flesh and pull myself out. But maybe the 3 skill could become a tonic that we drink that gets us on our feet again but in a drunken state, making it hard to control/see maybe be crippled but let us get away. Kind of emulating the Warriors ability to get back up, but not quite as effective and we just go back to being downed after it wares off.

However I do also like turning the 3 skill into a massive damage suicide button. It seems appropriate anyway as the only time I ever get it off in WvW is right before I die anyway XD

I think all downed state should have a survival tool and a weak cc tool.

Throw Junk does absurdly low damage in comparison to other classes, but I think all other downed attacks should be scaled down to Throw Junk’s level. As someone mentioned before, some people in downed state (like Warriors) are like the Hulk with broken legs. You should be able to do some damage when downed, but you really shouldn’t be able to kill someone from 50% health while they try to stomp you.

Guardian is probably the closest to a good place when downed. They don’t do a ton of damage when downed. They have cc that you can use stability or blind to avoid but it affects multiple opponents. They also have an ability to revive themselves more quickly (it should heal for more or last longer).

Elementalist, aside from Mist Form healing you to 50%, is also pretty good. Mist Form is incredibly strong as it makes you immune to stomps and you can use it to move closer to allies. Their damage is low and they have a single, long root for their cc; it’s all you need.

I really like the idea of something like an Overcharged Shot or Rocket Boots for our #2 downed ability. It will help us avoid being stomped even if our opponents use Blind or Stability which could be argued is too strong (not in comparison with other classes but with what’s best for the game).

For our #3 ability I’m not sure what I’d like to see. It would probably be just fine the way it is if #2 wasn’t so terrible. We already have Elixir R to revive us when we’re downed. I’d like our #3 ability to be useful to people who don’t use Elixir R but also for people that do. And, of course, it needs to stay useful for people who do PvE.

I would add a line to the Grappling Hook “If this attack does not hit a target you will be flung to the end of the Grappling Hook”. (Followed by a 1-second stun like overcharged shot.)
I can just imagine a downed engineer flying across the battlefield on the back of a grappling hook to be somewhat comical and be in theme with the class.

At the moment we die to any “Your dead now” move, this will answer a few of them while not giving us a guaranteed out which just for the record nobody should have.

Chupey.2397:

For my 2cents I would like the Engi to have a better way of escape while downed.

I like the idea of being able to ourselves to something/someone with the 2 skill. Would be cool if I could shout at my mate to run out of the fight abit so I can hook into his flesh and pull myself out. But maybe the 3 skill could become a tonic that we drink that gets us on our feet again but in a drunken state, making it hard to control/see maybe be crippled but let us get away. Kind of emulating the Warriors ability to get back up, but not quite as effective and we just go back to being downed after it wares off.

However I do also like turning the 3 skill into a massive damage suicide button. It seems appropriate anyway as the only time I ever get it off in WvW is right before I die anyway XD

Exactly we have a cloaking device when traited, the asura have a teleporter even one without the need for a pad as per their story, and the char have smoke they could use for conceilment. Why can’t any of those things be used while downed? Heck even if we were limited to tools we could pull out the gear shield for a few seconds. Anything would be better then it is now.

You know, to be honest I think every downed state should be like the Engineer’s. An auto attack, a single target interrupt, an AoE interrupt available after 10 seconds and a self-heal.

It looks gimp compared to what other classes are capable of, but from a PVP perspective I think our downed state is the most balanced and it should set the standard for all the others.