Guild Wars 2

Hey fellow engineers!

I’m absolutely in love with my Engineer and I have a few builds I play a lot in PvP and one build I use for PvE currently (Power Grenade). However, I am nearly at enough Symbols of Koda to purchase the Svanir set (which I think looks sexy as hell) and would like to switch to a Condition Damage focused build (I cannot wait until I don’t have to shake my arm out after a long fight of spamming 1).

Unfortunately, I can’t come up with a good build myself, as damage testing is pretty hard to do without a lot of the tools I’m used to from WoW, and I’m not much of a purely math based theory crafter.

This would be primarily for running dungeons, as I really enjoy them. I run with some guild mates (some are better than others, so the build should be strong in case I have to “carry” a couple through some of the dungeons) most frequently, and will be doing Explorer Mode with them now that they are approaching 80 as well.

Enough rambling and back story, here are my questions:
For a condition damage based build, is the Elixir gun the primary source of damage, or is Dual Pistol spamming ideal? Constantly swapping between the two (seems unlikely since Pistol 1 bleeds fall off quickly, but I can see doing it to keep poison and burn on cooldown)?

What kind of secondary utility skills would be best, Elixirs for group support and buffing yourself? Flamethrower for utility and stacking burn duration to infinity? Gadgets like Rocket Boots for burst and some additional burn? I personally don’t like turrets much, so I tend to not use them (they die super quickly and don’t seem to be all that great, though their toolbelt skills are pretty awesome on some).

Ideas for traits? Seems like the condition duration from Explosives would be really nice, but the traits are pretty lackluster for the build overall, it seems. Obviously Firearms would be at 30 for the condition damage and the overall solid traits available there. I was considering (assuming Elixir Gun is used a lot) going 30 into Alchemy and using Elixirs as my secondary utility spells. This way, I can keep boons on myself and team (much like I do now with Power Grenade build), while getting solid utility from their toolbelt skills as well as increased damage to the Elixir Gun.

Anyway, sorry for the length! Hoping to get some decent discussion going on here. Obviously, I’d prefer some pseudo-math based arguments for picking certain skills/weapons over others, but I’ll take what I can get

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide, I look forward to your responses!

My build might work for you. I use the Pistol/Shield combo. I run shield for reflecting projectiles, helping to buy time against melee mobs, stuns, and daze. All that utility outshines a short range burn and an AoE Immobilize in my opinion, especially in PvE. To replace the missing burn from offhand pistol I run Rocket Boots which has a toolbelt with a short distance kick that applies a high damage burn on a 20 second CD and also lets me break combat with the skill itself.

I use the Healing Turret as it provides the most healing both to yourself and to your team over the course of a fight if you use your finishers and the ability to pick the turret up to lower it’s CD, but will swap to Med Kit to set up before large battles, then back once the fight starts. I run Elixir Gun for more AoE heals and a good swap when my pistol skills are on CD and I’m not being targeted. The idea of the kit is to keep poison up more often and have an longer bleed plus weakness, but you want to give pistol about 60% time IMO simply because you get the stats and you have the shield if things get hairy. (Though I tend to run with PuGs so you might want to change that percentage for your group.)

My last utility slot changes depending on what the group needs, but my default is the Charr racial AoE buff because the toolbelt is just as useful as the buff itself. If we’re losing people or conditions are heavy I run Elixir R for team survival. And of course you can’t go anywhere without your trusty supply crate.

My Traits run 0/30/30/10/0. I get the range and CD for my pistol and Elixir gun in the first tree along with a lot of condition damage. I grab the conversion for more power, toughness and CD on shield, and Elite Supplies in the second tree which makes me a little tankier and makes me heal for more. And finally I grab the conversion for more Condition Damage and a slight life increase. The reason I don’t opt for duration at all is simple. Duration doesn’t do much for the build. The only non-damaging condition that I stack regularly is weakness on my Elixir Gun 1 and that’s spammable and up 100% anyway. The rest either need at least 50% bonus to see any returns, all damaging conditions tick on the second which means a 2 second bleed/burn/poison needs 50% increase to see 1 extra tick, or don’t benefit enough to warrant, Blindness is removed when they attack anyway and the stun from Supply Crate is the only other condition this build uses.

In summary, I use this build for anything PvE group-related. It’s got decent survivability, good disengage from tough fights, good support and synergy with combo fields, and sustained damage to supplement the direct damage and burst damage the rest of your team brings to the table. Feel free to make suggestions or ask questions!

It doesnt matter if bleeds drop off. This isnt like wow where you had to “roll” your burning, to keep up damage.
Each bleed has its own duration.

Coated bullets pistol 1 does get really strong in alot of pve situations. Get npc’s stacked up on top of each other, and boom. especially good if your friend is a guardian with aoe pull. although, in this situation power would be the stronger aspect, given only the direct damage is aoe.

Yes, swap between elixir and p/p often.
In a situation where p1 is not exploding on a target, elixir gun is higher dps. its bleed is stronger.

Pve condition’s rampagers gear I suppose. power, crit, +conditions. You want the crit for applying the sharpshooter bleed. all your skills scale with power to some degree. P1 and elixir gun notable have a good amount, potentially.
pvp I go prec, toughness, +conditions.

Range on pistols has no point. Pistols are melee to 400 range weapons. You need to be close to make use of venom volley, blowtorch, fumigate, acid, and elixir F.

p/p elixir H, elixir gun, elixir B, elixir R, supply drop

20 firearms. cdr, and vul on crits(swiftness on crits in pvp).
30 alch. hgh, 409, (cdr or vigor on swiftness)
20 tools. kit refinement, and static discharge.

Kit refinement will drop a super elixir when you swap to elixir gun.
alch traits do not effect elixir gun elixirs
alch cooldown trait, does not effect toolbelt elixirs.
Tools 20% cdr does.

You’ll have tons of healing, cleansing, might stacking. This might will then give you even more +condition damage, as well as the power will scale with your high crit.
If you really want coated bullets, take it from tools, and static discharge.

Casia.4281:

It doesnt matter if bleeds drop off. This isnt like wow where you had to “roll” your burning, to keep up damage.
Each bleed has its own duration.

Coated bullets pistol 1 does get really strong in alot of pve situations. Get npc’s stacked up on top of each other, and boom. especially good if your friend is a guardian with aoe pull. although, in this situation power would be the stronger aspect, given only the direct damage is aoe.

Yes, swap between elixir and p/p often.
In a situation where p1 is not exploding on a target, elixir gun is higher dps. its bleed is stronger.

Pve condition’s rampagers gear I suppose. power, crit, +conditions. You want the crit for applying the sharpshooter bleed. all your skills scale with power to some degree. P1 and elixir gun notable have a good amount, potentially.
pvp I go prec, toughness, +conditions.

Range on pistols has no point. Pistols are melee to 400 range weapons. You need to be close to make use of venom volley, blowtorch, fumigate, acid, and elixir F.

p/p elixir H, elixir gun, elixir B, elixir R, supply drop

20 firearms. cdr, and vul on crits(swiftness on crits in pvp).
30 alch. hgh, 409, (cdr or vigor on swiftness)
20 tools. kit refinement, and static discharge.

Kit refinement will drop a super elixir when you swap to elixir gun.
alch traits do not effect elixir gun elixirs
alch cooldown trait, does not effect toolbelt elixirs.
Tools 20% cdr does.

You’ll have tons of healing, cleansing, might stacking. This might will then give you even more +condition damage, as well as the power will scale with your high crit.
If you really want coated bullets, take it from tools, and static discharge.

I know they stack separately, but I get +5% damage vs bleeding with my setup so longer bleeds and constant bleeds is the reason why I mention them dropping off. I don’t play WoW so I don’t understand “roll” burning, sorry.

I take the range increase here not because I want to snipe, but because I want to be safe. The farther away I am for the majority of the fight, the safer I am for the majority of the fight. Yes, I move in for Rocket Kick, Fumigate, and Poison Shot. Except Fumigate has decent range with the range increase and I carry multiple ways to get out of range quickly or disengage for that very reason. I’m constantly moving and doing something with my build.

I’ve tried Elixir Build, but I dislike it because it lacks utility and flexibility. You deal more damage and gain some useful condition removal and might at the expense of taking all your utilities as self-buffs relying solely on unreliable toss skills to help the party. It’s just my preference and the reason I build so oddly vs most people who just run grenades or dual pistols, I prefer versatility and support over pure damage. Just my thoughts and explanations please don’t think I’m knocking your advice in any way, it’s just not for me though it might be for the OP.

ok, if you go 30 deep in firearms. remember that 5% is only to direct damage. again, since you are a cond build, 5% of 30% of your total damage… isn’t that much, and not a big deal if it drops off.
Also, high crit and the 5s sharpshooter bleed will be up most often.

“elixir build lacks utility”. *head just exploded…

I also get boosts to my Power through conversions and my gear, so I’m not ONLY conditions to be fair. I am however not a Power build and I concede that readily. The 5% isn’t much on my conditions true, but you say it’s only 5% of 30% which is incorrect and I don’t argue that it’s game-changing, but longer bleeds for me are a good thing regardless.

I agree that the sharpshooter bleed will be up very often and that makes me happy, but it’s not my main source as I only just clear 50% on my build (I think it was 51% or 52%). Five sec bleed is amazing a little over 50% of the time and definitely one of the reasons I ended up adding crit to my gear, but using the longer EG bleed has other benefits too and, as long as you’re hitting a single enemy and not a group, I feel it’s better to use EG than Pistol for bleed.

Read my previous post as to my thoughts on Elixir utility, IMO the toss skills are random (except Elixir R), relatively small AoE’s, and they don’t do anything reliable except add might and remove conditions. Might is the only thing your build gains over mine while it loses all the disengage and the extra utility slot my build has available. Once again, IMO you deal more damage for less utility than I can carry on my build. Just my preference I guess.

“The 5% isn’t much on my conditions true, but you say it’s only 5% of 30% which is incorrect and I don’t argue that it’s game-changing, but longer bleeds for me are a good thing regardless.”
I’m not sure you understand the 5% damage buff is to direct damage only. It does not buff condition damage.

Sharpshooter is applied to all sources of damage. Grenades, pistols, elixir gun, etc. not sure if you knew that. yes its very good, and you should have a focus on crit in addition to +cond if only for that.

Yes the toss functions of H and B are terrible mostly, however traited for cond removal and might, they are very good. R is game changing. and B self use is quite as well.

I would have more mobility due to elixir R, being nearly immune to conditions, and vigor/swiftness. Dodge rolls all day. super elixirx2

I’ve been trying to put together a decent condition build as well, and I have to agree with Casia. Engi has way too many ‘on-crit’ conditions to ignore, especially one I haven’t seen you guys mention, " Incendiary Powder". Burn is THE highest damage condition, and with the precision from 30 pts in firearms will trigger quite often.
So what I’ve done is take the Flamer with Juggernaut and 30 points into alchemy to get massive amounts of might stacks, also the ‘kit refinement’ from switching to the Flamethrower is a nice AoE burn.

inc powder I dont recommend actually.
it has a hidden 2s internal cooldown. So, if you hit 10 people with explosive bullet and piercing? one and only 1 of those targets can get the burn on them.
In comparison, the 5 point firearm trait, sharpshooter which has a chance to apply kitten bleed? will hit aoe on every hit. And using explosive bullets, explosions hitting a single target multiple times, can in fact apply that bleed multiple times with a single shot. Or venoms 5 shots in2 sec. with 100% crit, 30% chance on every hit. (in theory it could proc on all 5..)

Single target you can make an argument for it. But again conversely burns don’t stack, and blowtorch has a decent uptime with +duration and -cooldown.

Great stuff so far guys!

I was not aware that Target the Maimed only works on Direct Damage. That seems like a bug :\

Cassia, is there a reason you don’t take Deadly Mixture for 15% more damage from the Elixir Gun? It seems like 15% more damage will offset the loss from dropping either HGH, Cleansing 409 (other than certain dungeons, where you’d want to pick it back up as everything and their mother spam poison or burn on you), or the increased Elixir duration?

I currently use Elixir B and R as my utility skills and was thinking that keeping those would probably be my best option, glad to see that you recommend them as well. However, in a stronger group where you know you won’t need Elixir R as much, how do you feel about Elixir U? I had some pretty good success with it when messing around with a condition build, as that lets you stack up a ton of bleeds in a short period as well as provide utility walls (although randomly, so it’s not THAT helpful). I think for the majority of the time, I’d run Elixir R, but on boss fights that I know our group will not have a problem with, I’d like to swap out to another elixir.

I’m also curious about going 20 into Tools. The reset of the toolbelt skills at 25% seems useful for Elixir R, but that’s about it. I guess you can throw your Elixir H to get some defensive boons as well, but seems like that is just a much better trait if you’re running Med Kit. Static Discharge, I feel the same. It is a great trait, but it seems like it works better with a Power build that has shorter cooldowns on the toolbelt. Does the Static Discharge trait not scale with Power? I think dropping those 10 points and putting them back into Firearms for Coated Bullets and the extra 100 condition damage might be more worth it? The 10 points into Tools makes sense, as Kit Refinement is definitely useful.

SixSins, your build is actually similar to one I was considering, but it’s much more support oriented than I plan on. I ran something similar when I first hit 80 in a few dungeons and I enjoyed it, but I’m looking for something that focuses more on damage output at this point. Eventually, I want to have a support oriented spec that focuses on Healing and Condition Damage, in which case, I’ll be going a build much more like yours.

Once again, great conversation so far guys, looking forward to more ideas!

PS Pistol/Pistol is cool and probably better for a purely Condition focused build, but Pistol/Shield will always be my favorite. That Shield is so awesome. I’ll be running Pistol/Pistol for this, though

ALL the +% damage traits/buffs/etc only work on direct damage.
Sigils, runes, traits, class buffs, vulnerability, etc.
Elixir gun does do decent direct damage, but if im gearing mostly for +cond, that 15% wont buff that much.

hgh gives you near perma 6-9 stacks of might in that build. 210/210-315/315 power/cond. other sources of friendly might also getting the +30% duration.
alch has many good traits. tight choices honestly. longer duration and shorter cd, makes those might stacks stack even higher, as well as longer fury, ret, etc.

R is amazing. cond removal, and rezing. even in “strong” groups. you can even res yourself if you know you are going to drop. This is especially true if you do go 20 in tools for the 25% recharges toolbelt.
Throw H, and B arent very good themselves, if you dont “need” R for revival its another aoe might stack.

I feel U is too random and negative for its negative effects. quickness doesnt buff condition damage either.

Yeah, discharge scales with power.
Shorter cd on tools=more might stacking, more cleansing, more regen. instant recharge means at 25% you get that regen, and auto rez R.
You ought to be gearing for high crit, and 20 firearms also aids this. So the crit damage in tools is scaling off your 50% uptime on fury, high crit chance, and all that power from might stacks.

Speedy kits is another good one if you dont want discharge. but honestly discharge is pretty great, esp in pve, where its easier to target.

there is definitely some play in there.

Yeah I love discharge, but I figured with as little power as I’ll have, it might be better to put those 10 points elsewhere. I’m really surprised to hear that all +% damage buffs only work on direct damage. Not that I don’t believe you, but is there a source for this? Is it a bug or intended? Knowing that definitely will make me drop Deadly Mixture, I assumed it was working on all damage applied by the Elixir Gun.

I’ll play around with the builds tonight in Heart of the Mists and see what I can come up with, but this is some great insight!

I wouldn’t mind hearing some other people chime in on the subject, as well. Different opinions and builds are definitely welcome

Most of the Engineers conditions are 2 sec duration. So I don’t think anything is going to add more to your dps than 30% duration from explosives combined with two global 10% condi duration rune bonuses. The grandmaster grenade trait will give another long duration bleed off the 2 skill as well if you choose to carry it.

Casia.4281:

“The 5% isn’t much on my conditions true, but you say it’s only 5% of 30% which is incorrect and I don’t argue that it’s game-changing, but longer bleeds for me are a good thing regardless.”
I’m not sure you understand the 5% damage buff is to direct damage only. It does not buff condition damage.

Sharpshooter is applied to all sources of damage. Grenades, pistols, elixir gun, etc. not sure if you knew that. yes its very good, and you should have a focus on crit in addition to +cond if only for that.

Yes the toss functions of H and B are terrible mostly, however traited for cond removal and might, they are very good. R is game changing. and B self use is quite as well.

I would have more mobility due to elixir R, being nearly immune to conditions, and vigor/swiftness. Dodge rolls all day. super elixirx2

Problem with the argument for Elixir R giving you more mobility is that there is nothing stopping me from slotting it as well in that extra slot I mentioned, yes it will have a longer CD, but I also have Rocket Boots and jump from EG which is enough mobility for me. Or I could forego a little mobility to do something else like Goggles since you mentioned crit or pretty much anything else that catches my eye and helps in some way.

I’m not arguing that Elixir builds are bad, I’ve been wrecked by them, but I don’t feel they have the number of options that I do during a fight. Their options are usually limited to where to toss the next elixir when the CD comes up which is usually on themselves because it’s a sure hit rather than trying to hit dodging and leaping and teleporting allies. Throwing that potion could be game-changing, but it’s the only decision your utilities allow on Elixir builds. I get to decide what to slot in my last spot and when and how to use my gadgets and my turret which, for me, makes for more engaging gameplay. I guess the reason I dislike them boils down to them being more “Rinse and Repeat” than dynamic decision making.

Edit: I realised I made a typing error, I meant to say condition build in my earlier post. Very sorry, it was late at night and I went to bed shortly after so I didn’t catch it. Sorry for the confusion.

safetybelt.5078:

Yeah I love discharge, but I figured with as little power as I’ll have, it might be better to put those 10 points elsewhere. I’m really surprised to hear that all +% damage buffs only work on direct damage. Not that I don’t believe you, but is there a source for this? Is it a bug or intended? Knowing that definitely will make me drop Deadly Mixture, I assumed it was working on all damage applied by the Elixir Gun.

I’ll play around with the builds tonight in Heart of the Mists and see what I can come up with, but this is some great insight!

I wouldn’t mind hearing some other people chime in on the subject, as well. Different opinions and builds are definitely welcome

Unfortunately, as far as we know it is intended that the +% damage only scales direct damage. I believe the reason for this is simply that conditions can stack 2 things to become more powerful and pure power only has 1. I would list crit, but both can benefit from that so it ends up being a little bias towards condition damage even if the damage is over time rather than up front. This is just speculation on part of my, some guildmates, mapchat, and a forum post from forever ago but it makes a little sense. Still, some damage buff is better than none IMO, but if you could take something better for your conditions then I suggest skipping them in a non-hybrid build.

Just put a 36 second burn on a target golem with incendiary ammo, blow torch, and a fire bomb. Rolling through 2-5 on bomb kit will also produce 15-20 vulnerability stacks with 30 explosives and precise sights.

I like my FT condition build with pistols on the side. 10/30/0/30 gives you extra vitality and several proc-on-crit effects. Like someone else said, pop your incendiary ammo and stack a lot of burn up on an enemy with one fireblast!

I’ve thought about turning it into 0/30/20/30 for more defense and survival since I use the Juggernaut Grandmaster major trait a lot. This would give you 300 extra vitality (+3000 health) and 200/400 extra toughness.

The most negative thing about FT is the bugs.

Your flame blast (#1) damaging area usually follows where you are facing, so you’ll see plenty of misses on an enemy you’ve targetted if he’s out of the cone.

Your Napalm (#2) gets easily obstructed, especially if you use it after using blow back (#3) on the targetted enemy.

The idea for an FT conditions build shouldn’t be to constantly stay on the enemy. Besides, the FT can hit people without being in melee distance. (425 range)

Conditions aren’t immediate damage, so you should fry them once to build up
conditions, then work on defending yourself. Back away firing your pistol poison shot and (if you are dual pistols) flame shot. If you are using rifles, net shot on the way in to keep them from avoiding your flame jet, then blunderbuss and overcharged shot to kick them away.

A good addition to your utility skills is the Net Turret. Both the turret and the toolbelt skill are useful. Use the toolbelt to immobilize your enemy, then flame jet and pop your pistol condition attacks. Drop the net turret and overcharge it to stun and immobilize them again if you want to flame jet them even more.

Flamethrower build is something I want to try in the future, but I’m going to wait until all the kinks are sorted out. I’ve had a few issues with Flamethrower in PvP and am hoping they fix them before I give it another shot…

What kind of Runes and Sigils are people running? I assume the Corruption Sigil (stacking condition damage) on one pistol since it’s one of the few that carries over for kits. What about for second pistol? I was thinking the Sigil of Accuracy to get the 5% more crit, but any suggestions?

Same with Runes… There aren’t a ton of + Condition Damage Runes, but I was thinking either Undead (+ 183 Condition Damage, + 50 Toughness, + 5% of Toughness becomes Condition Damage) or Afflicted (+ 183 Condition Damage, + 15% Bleed Duration, + 15% Poison Duration, Creates a Death Nova when you go down). Of course I’m open to suggestions and ideas!

Edit: Still talking primarily PvE here!
Side Note: I will be running Toughness/Condition Damage/Precision armor, not Power/Condition Damage/Precision… at least for now. I might switch eventually, in which case the Undead Runes would really lose a lot of their appeal.

Runes:

If you’re looking for toughness and condition damage, then Rune of the Undead set would be good for you to add to your armors. Duration isn’t much unless you have some long durations.

If you want a defensive and offensive rune, you can choose Runes of Lyssa, which gives +Precision, +Condition duration, buff on healing, and condition removal on Elite skill.

Sigils:

As for Sigils, use a Sigil of Corruption to stack your condition damage. Superior sigil will net you +10 condition damage per stack, for a total of +250 when you reach 25 stacks. A nifty bonus!

Aside from that. . .Sigil of Strength is good for kit swapping because it gives you Might for 10 seconds. If you are looking for more crit chance and don’t plan to use a kit or stay in one very long, use a Sigil of Accuracy to give yourself a crit chance boost (+5% from the Superior Sigil!).