Q:
Wanting something that i could use for dungeons/ open world content
Looking for Pve Zerker Grenade build
• The Grenadier
For sure a strong spec, I believe it is reaching top DPS for Engineer right now. Make good use out of every kit, the Elixir Gun’s Acid Bomb for example does a ton of damage.
(edited by Wolfar.6508)
You have Fast-Acting Elixirs instead of Invigorating Speed on that link just so you know.
Overall I’d say rifle with Rifle Mod (instead of Infused Precision, unless you need the vigor) is the clear choice 90% of the time, as the extra DPS is pretty significant and far outweighs the extra 3 stacks of might from Magnetic Inversion in most cases. I almost never use my shield now in fact.
Also Strength is clearly better than Battle now, it’s virtually a guaranteed 9-10 stacks.
You can prestack might with shield and switch back to rifle before fight. Not really much point in open world though.
You have Fast-Acting Elixirs instead of Invigorating Speed on that link just so you know.
Overall I’d say rifle with Rifle Mod (instead of Infused Precision, unless you need the vigor) is the clear choice 90% of the time, as the extra DPS is pretty significant and far outweighs the extra 3 stacks of might from Magnetic Inversion in most cases. I almost never use my shield now in fact.
Also Strength is clearly better than Battle now, it’s virtually a guaranteed 9-10 stacks.
Oh, I used to run Elixir U. I forgot to change it around, thanks for letting me know.
I wanted to have a decent uptime of Swiftness so you are able to kite certain monsters or keep up with the group, I therefore took Infused Precision. This one could indeed be switched with Rifle Mod and then take 2 out of Alchemy for 2 in Tools for Speedy Kits. 3 Stacks of Might for every party member is still pretty good though, when you are the only one getting it it isn’t even close to worth it yes compared to Rifle Mod.
Sigil of Battle with Runes of Strength makes you able to maintain 9 stacks of Might permanently. This is more stable than Sigil of Strength because once you stop hitting enemies the stacks drop rather quickly (short duration compared to sigil of battle’s might stacks) while Sigil of Battle can be maintained rather easily by swapping kits. I personally did not experience a higher stack count than 10 (not that you say so though) as therefore I find Sigil of Battle a more reliable and better Sigil.
I will add some more details to the page, thanks for your great feedback!
With 50% crit chance you have a 30% chance per hit to proc Strength sigil. Throwing grenades at a single target = 3 hits per second lining up with the ICD = about 65% chance per toss. That’ll get you to 3 stacks in about 4.5 seconds, and you should cap around 6.5 base before factoring in boon duration. Battle will get you to 3 stacks instantly but you won’t get any more until 9 seconds in, after which you sit at 6. If you swap perfectly on cooldown you can get then get 3 more stacks for 2 seconds before you lose the original two; that’s a sustained 6.6 on average which means the two sigils are equal in the absolute worst case scenario (no extra precision, only one target, enough ramp-up time for both).
In practice Strength will almost always be better due to AOE, the fact that you will usually have more than 50% crit chance (via fury, banners, Spotter, consumables, etc.) and the fact that engie actually attacks faster than 3 hits per second thanks to stuff like Mine Field, Grenade Barrage, Fire Bomb, etc. giving more than 3 hits per second. That’s even factoring in that you may have to dodge or stop to res someone. With just fury or two targets, you’re hovering in the 8-9 stacks range already.
Also I did the calculations since I was curious about this myself, but it seems the extra 3 stacks of might party-wide is almost never worth the DPS loss from having a rifle, even if you don’t trait it with Rifle Mod. If I recall correctly, a party of 4 other players in exotic Knight’s gear would have to have an average personal unbuffed DPS of about 2.5k for the gain in damage to them to offset your own loss in damage, and that required number gets even higher if they’re in zerker or soldier gear. This is getting pretty math-heavy but suffice to say that the average knight/soldier-wearing pug doesn’t get that high in numbers.
With 50% crit chance you have a 30% chance per hit to proc Strength sigil. Throwing grenades at a single target = 3 hits per second lining up with the ICD = about 65% chance per toss. That’ll get you to 3 stacks in about 4.5 seconds, and you should cap around 6.5 base before factoring in boon duration. Battle will get you to 3 stacks instantly but you won’t get any more until 9 seconds in, after which you sit at 6. If you swap perfectly on cooldown you can get then get 3 more stacks for 2 seconds before you lose the original two; that’s a sustained 6.6 on average which means the two sigils are equal in the absolute worst case scenario (no extra precision, only one target, enough ramp-up time for both).
In practice Strength will almost always be better due to AOE, the fact that you will usually have more than 50% crit chance (via fury, banners, Spotter, consumables, etc.) and the fact that engie actually attacks faster than 3 hits per second thanks to stuff like Mine Field, Grenade Barrage, Fire Bomb, etc. giving more than 3 hits per second. That’s even factoring in that you may have to dodge or stop to res someone. With just fury or two targets, you’re hovering in the 8-9 stacks range already.
Also I did the calculations since I was curious about this myself, but it seems the extra 3 stacks of might party-wide is almost never worth the DPS loss from having a rifle, even if you don’t trait it with Rifle Mod. If I recall correctly, a party of 4 other players in exotic Knight’s gear would have to have an average personal unbuffed DPS of about 2.5k for the gain in damage to them to offset your own loss in damage, and that required number gets even higher if they’re in zerker or soldier gear. This is getting pretty math-heavy but suffice to say that the average knight/soldier-wearing pug doesn’t get that high in numbers.
About Sigil of Battle, with the Extra Might duration from Rune of Strength the might will last for 29 seconds (if not counting anything in alchemy). So that means (if I think of this correctly) that you are able to maintain 9 stacks and are able to get 12 stacks for 2 seconds before losing the first one. Correct me if I am wrong on this one but I believe this is how it is.
The big issue is indeed that Sigil of Battle takes time to stack up which could be too long. I never really took this in consideration which clearly makes the Sigil of Strength better.
For the shield, I was referring to using it beforehand and then swapping back to Rifle once done with the Might combo, in that case it should always be better. I made some weird connections to Rifle Mod which made no sense and so thank you for correcting me on it and doing the math.
(edited by Wolfar.6508)
With 50% crit chance you have a 30% chance per hit to proc Strength sigil. Throwing grenades at a single target = 3 hits per second lining up with the ICD = about 65% chance per toss. That’ll get you to 3 stacks in about 4.5 seconds, and you should cap around 6.5 base before factoring in boon duration. Battle will get you to 3 stacks instantly but you won’t get any more until 9 seconds in, after which you sit at 6. If you swap perfectly on cooldown you can get then get 3 more stacks for 2 seconds before you lose the original two; that’s a sustained 6.6 on average which means the two sigils are equal in the absolute worst case scenario (no extra precision, only one target, enough ramp-up time for both).
In practice Strength will almost always be better due to AOE, the fact that you will usually have more than 50% crit chance (via fury, banners, Spotter, consumables, etc.) and the fact that engie actually attacks faster than 3 hits per second thanks to stuff like Mine Field, Grenade Barrage, Fire Bomb, etc. giving more than 3 hits per second. That’s even factoring in that you may have to dodge or stop to res someone. With just fury or two targets, you’re hovering in the 8-9 stacks range already.
Also I did the calculations since I was curious about this myself, but it seems the extra 3 stacks of might party-wide is almost never worth the DPS loss from having a rifle, even if you don’t trait it with Rifle Mod. If I recall correctly, a party of 4 other players in exotic Knight’s gear would have to have an average personal unbuffed DPS of about 2.5k for the gain in damage to them to offset your own loss in damage, and that required number gets even higher if they’re in zerker or soldier gear. This is getting pretty math-heavy but suffice to say that the average knight/soldier-wearing pug doesn’t get that high in numbers.
About Sigil of Battle, with the Extra Might duration from Rune of Strength the might will last for 29 seconds (if not counting anything in alchemy). So that means (if I think of this correctly) that you are able to maintain 9 stacks and are able to get 12 stacks for 2 seconds before losing the first one. Correct me if I am wrong on this one but I believe this is how it is.
The big issue is indeed that Sigil of Battle takes time to stack up which could be too long. I never really took this in consideration which clearly makes the Sigil of Strength better.
For the shield, I was referring to using it beforehand and then swapping back to Rifle once done with the Might combo, in that case it should always be better. I made some weird connections to Rifle Mod which made no sense and so thank you for correcting me on it and doing the math.
I used base numbers because boon duration is multiplicative and so it won’t affect the overall balance between the two. For example, with Strength runes (+45% duration), Battle stacks last 29 seconds = 9.7 stacks. Strength stacks would be 66% chance to proc per Grenade toss (approximately, with 50% crit chance on one target) which would be about 9.6 stacks with each stack lasting 14.5 seconds.
The takeaway is basically that Battle sigils will be more consistently maxed around 9 stacks on average (since the 2 second overlap before the sigil expires is pretty insignificant) while Strength sigils may fluctuate slightly more, but have the potential for much higher stacks in general, with the worst case scenario getting about the same as Battle and losing one stack of might for every 1.5 seconds not spent attacking.