Guild Wars 2

I’ll get to the gist of this post immediately: I’m coming back from a very long and mostly inactive hiatus of playing GW2. The last time I played engineer was shortly after release, and all I know about it now are a few forum posts and a few builds I cobbled together on the gw2skills editor.

Will it be worth picking up engineer and going for scrapper?

I might skill leveling entirely; I’ve got an Insta-40 scroll and more than enough tomes to get me the rest of the way, but after a lot of bad experiences with Heart of Thorns, I’m not so sure about how dedicated I am to unlocking scrapper.

Experimenting with the Insta-80 thing sent out to everyone showed that I found grenades and a few other kits pretty fun (but most of the standard weapons dull). I’ll need to do some more research on traits to get a better sense of synergies, though. My big regret is that the trial mode doesn’t let you check out the elite spec for the profession, since that’s the one thing I’m quite interested in after seeing a number of players using it.

Insofar the only other characters I’ve gotten to 80 are: Thief, Warrior, Guardian, and Mesmer. No particular builds, really, as I play PvE and Fractals exclusively, the latter when a few guildies or friends are up for it.

Engineer looks like it’ll be different, which I kind of hope it will. I could use a change from the characters I have. But I’m still not sure on if investing in the profession and pushing for scrapper will be worth it.

Sup, first off, welcome back :P

Its totally worth it to pick engi and go scrapper if you want, completing the masteries for scrapper isn’t that hard if you dont have too much time for play the game, scrapper offers a big surrvivability to engi wich is appreciated in open world content and in pvp, the kit gameplay it’s also very entertaining and one of our signatures.

You will always have a chance to answer with any damage as long as you select the right kit, and even more if you have learnt yourself a rotation, but most of the time, its just game sense to swap to the right kit, memorizing what kit you havent used in a while, and so on, no need to play with a strict rotation if you are wondering.

Engi is a uniue class, that’s for sure, you can roll with it for a long time if it results to be for you.

The bad part is, if you plan to be an engi don’t expect to shine in any meta at all, never down of the meta but never god either…. not for a long time at least.

Hope this info was useful for you.

No. Go Revenant. Engineer is not a bad class but it’s not particularly interesting either (long term).

1. Do you like a more active combat with lots of skill choices and rotations?
2. Do you like ground targeting and predicting your targets path?
3. Do you like solving problems with flamethrowers, grenades, rifles, bombs, and mortars over swords, sticks, and voodoo?

If you answered yes to all of the above, then you’ll love the engineer.

1. Do you want to be loved by all?
2. Do you want to be top of the food chain?
3. Do you want a class that’s more than just purity of purpose?

If you answered yes to any of the above, then maybe an engineer is not for you

Engi is worth it for open world farming, and pvp. Flamethrower is second king of tagging foes, after guardian lootstick.

A Viper Condi engine has limited use in Raids, but uses nontheless. VG, Gorseval, Sabetha, Trio, Matthias, Escort, Xera.

Nate.8146:

3. Do you want a class that’s more than just purity of purpose?

The flashback T.T

DGraves.3720:

No. Go Revenant. Engineer is not a bad class but it’s not particularly interesting either (long term).

Barring the fact that the OP doesn’t really tell us what part of the game he wants to play, your advice is that revenant is more interesting to play than Engi? What is your perspective here? I find that of all the classes, Revenant is way to restrictive in how you can choose skills or the number of skills available to be remotely interesting.

Obtena.7952:

DGraves.3720:

No. Go Revenant. Engineer is not a bad class but it’s not particularly interesting either (long term).

Barring the fact that the OP doesn’t really tell us what part of the game he wants to play, your advice is that revenant is more interesting to play than Engi? What is your perspective here? I find that of all the classes, Revenant is way to restrictive in how you can choose skills or the number of skills available to be remotely interesting.

What are you actually asking? I understand you don’t find the Revenant to be interesting and that’s fine. But what do you want from me about it?

fluffdragon.1523:

No particular builds, really, as I play PvE and Fractals exclusively, the latter when a few guildies or friends are up for it.

Then there’s really no point to unlock the scrapper. It’s a PvP/WvW specialization, with literally zero value in PvE.

As for the engineer at large, it is a valuable profession in fractals. Both power and condi specs are great there, but you want to drop a utility for the Tool Kit or Elixir Gun in some of the more challenging instabilities/levels.

Outside of wing one, however, engineer isn’t all that great in raids.

DGraves.3720:

Obtena.7952:

DGraves.3720:

No. Go Revenant. Engineer is not a bad class but it’s not particularly interesting either (long term).

Barring the fact that the OP doesn’t really tell us what part of the game he wants to play, your advice is that revenant is more interesting to play than Engi? What is your perspective here? I find that of all the classes, Revenant is way to restrictive in how you can choose skills or the number of skills available to be remotely interesting.

What are you actually asking? I understand you don’t find the Revenant to be interesting and that’s fine. But what do you want from me about it?

I guess I’m interested in how you find Rev more interesting than Eng. I would have thought the sheer volume of choices you can make on Eng would give quite a few interesting things to play around with. On Rev, you have much fewer options.

Quality not quantity. Hero channeling creates meaningful options. You can do an impressive amount of things with them and create a multi-variable approach to class roles in my opinion. Engineers have a lot of options but most of them aren’t even that good and generally it’s self-serving when you play since support engineer is all but dead.

engi is best.

If you have char slots to spare, go for it. If you don’t like it, you can still reroll.
In my opinion, all classes are worth a try.

Thanks for the input so far, guys!

It’s really nice to see a lot of different opinions, and overall it sounds like the class will be worth picking up.

Phineas Poe.3018:

fluffdragon.1523:

No particular builds, really, as I play PvE and Fractals exclusively, the latter when a few guildies or friends are up for it.

Then there’s really no point to unlock the scrapper. It’s a PvP/WvW specialization, with literally zero value in PvE.

As for the engineer at large, it is a valuable profession in fractals. Both power and condi specs are great there, but you want to drop a utility for the Tool Kit or Elixir Gun in some of the more challenging instabilities/levels.

Outside of wing one, however, engineer isn’t all that great in raids.

MAN PLEASE. Scrapper is amazing. I was about to delete my engineer, it sucked so hard and I hated it… But then I unlocked Scrapper. Been happy with my Engineer ever since. I love scrapper spec in PvE.

Scrapper is flexible as f……iggit. For example, today my fractal party was wiped in Snowblind @last boss and I was the only one alive left. I popped my sneak gyro, ressed my allies sneaky beaky like, we carried on. We won. Engineer GG.

zomgbuffalo.5276:

For example, today my fractal party was wiped in Snowblind @last boss and I was the only one alive left. I popped my sneak gyro, ressed my allies sneaky beaky like, we carried on. We won. Engineer GG.

First, I just want to point out that your story began with “my fractal party wiped.” If your group sucks I’m sure scrapper has some perceived utility, but in a smooth run where everyone knows what they’re doing, a scrapper just brings nothing to the table and really only slows the run down.

Second, the best support utilities engineer has are the Elixir Gun and the Mortar Kit, neither of which need scrapper to be used. In all seriousness you really shouldn’t ever run the Sneak Gyro over the Mortar Kit in fractals. Frost Armor, a big water field, and a blast finisher all in one slot. It’s so money and you don’t even know it.

Third, the core engineer has access to plenty of stealth. You could replicate exactly the same scenario and outcome without running the scrapper specialization.

I’m happy that you enjoy the scrapper specialization and it saved your engineer from deletion, but it’s just not a valued trait line in semi-serious PvE content in pretty much any capacity.

fluffdragon.1523:

Thanks for the input so far, guys!

It’s really nice to see a lot of different opinions, and overall it sounds like the class will be worth picking up.

Well you’re asking in the Engineer forum. We’re a bit biased.

Phineas Poe.3018:

zomgbuffalo.5276:

For example, today my fractal party was wiped in Snowblind @last boss and I was the only one alive left. I popped my sneak gyro, ressed my allies sneaky beaky like, we carried on. We won. Engineer GG.

First, I just want to point out that your story began with “my fractal party wiped.” If your group sucks I’m sure scrapper has some perceived utility, but in a smooth run where everyone knows what they’re doing, a scrapper just brings nothing to the table and really only slows the run down.

Okay. How many times do you come across ‘le perfect’ fractal or PvE in general comp? It’s not that often I could say, so having that ability to be flexible in many situations and bringing your party back to operation mode is not that bad.

I am really disappointed by the current state of engi – I agree it could use some extra work, but I can’t go for any other class for many different reasons. I really wanted to try out Elementalist, but since half of the population in the game is ele, I really don’t want to become another small piece in a huge gray puddle

I guess I just like the idea that I am one of a few.

zomgbuffalo.5276:

Having that ability to be flexible in many situations and bringing your party back to operation mode is not that bad.

Of course it isn’t a bad thing—but like I said, the core engi build is where all your support is coming from, and you do much more DPS with it than you do with any scrapper variant.

Need condi cleanse? Have it.
Need raw healing? Have it.
Need might? Have it.
Need vulnerability? Have it.
Need stealth? Have it.
Need 25K DPS? Also have that.

This versatility is why engineer has pretty much always been a top-tier profession for FOTM 50 when that was the max and now FOTM 100 today. All scrapper brings to the table is the function gyro and a bunch of selfish buffs to our sustain. Running something like the Sneak Gyro as your elite in fact only lessens your contributions to the party.

Scrapper is an amazing specialization and one that’ll continue to be valuable even after our next elite specialization is released; but that value extends only to WvW and, now to a lesser extent, PvP.

The old style engineer was really really super fun. I really miss pistol pistol with nades and toolkit in pvp and at the same time i really like pistol pistol or rifle playstyle in pve. IF you like the “piano” gaming and to change your setup and your way to kill every 10 minutes core engineer is one of the best thing. You can use core engi condition in fractal, also in high level, and even with rifle, if you want , it is viable ( but perhaps not optimal ). Problem is that you will not be the best for any role and other classes will can do thing easier than you . For me it is not a great problem but i don’t play at high levels .
For scrapper it is completely another story. Scrapper is good in spvp and can be good in wvw ( it is too slow for me ) but it has for me a really really big problem : scrapper playstyle is something terribly boring. I think scrapper is one of the most boring thing to play in the game. Rotations are super easy, scrapper is a form of warrior or guardian ( a melee class) really boring to play. Gyros have not real use : in spvp bulk gyro is really good but for the rest thereis really no need to take them imho. In pve other kits are better, in wvw purge gyro is not bad but i prefer elixir C … so they are not that great. Sneak gyro can be usefull .. but only situationally and for pvp i prefer elixir X.
Scrapper playstyle is boring. You have to chase all the time your opponent and hit 11111 while waiting 2 and 3 are ready. The only good thing in scrapper that can is EG… but it is a kit of core engi . I have been playing engi since 2012 and scrapper is something completely different. I have no fun at all. The good thing of scrapper, for me , is only in pvp. It is a good bruiser , it is not great in nothing but it can be a strong class especially for solo becouse if well played you can last a lot . I suggest it to roll it only if you like engi core gameplay becouse it is really fun. Scrapper , if you don’t need it in spvp, is only a really boring and suboptimal thing

PierPiero.9142:

The old style engineer was really really super fun. I really miss pistol pistol with nades and toolkit in pvp and at the same time i really like pistol pistol or rifle playstyle in pve. IF you like the “piano” gaming and to change your setup and your way to kill every 10 minutes core engineer is one of the best thing. You can use core engi condition in fractal, also in high level, and even with rifle, if you want , it is viable ( but perhaps not optimal ). Problem is that you will not be the best for any role and other classes will can do thing easier than you . For me it is not a great problem but i don’t play at high levels .
For scrapper it is completely another story. Scrapper is good in spvp and can be good in wvw ( it is too slow for me ) but it has for me a really really big problem : scrapper playstyle is something terribly boring. I think scrapper is one of the most boring thing to play in the game. Rotations are super easy, scrapper is a form of warrior or guardian ( a melee class) really boring to play. Gyros have not real use : in spvp bulk gyro is really good but for the rest thereis really no need to take them imho. In pve other kits are better, in wvw purge gyro is not bad but i prefer elixir C … so they are not that great. Sneak gyro can be usefull .. but only situationally and for pvp i prefer elixir X.
Scrapper playstyle is boring. You have to chase all the time your opponent and hit 11111 while waiting 2 and 3 are ready. The only good thing in scrapper that can is EG… but it is a kit of core engi . I have been playing engi since 2012 and scrapper is something completely different. I have no fun at all. The good thing of scrapper, for me , is only in pvp. It is a good bruiser , it is not great in nothing but it can be a strong class especially for solo becouse if well played you can last a lot . I suggest it to roll it only if you like engi core gameplay becouse it is really fun. Scrapper , if you don’t need it in spvp, is only a really boring and suboptimal thing

I actually have the complete opposite experience. Leveling an engi without tomes was the most grueling experience I’ve had in GW2. (leveling a rev came close though but atleast IO + Sword AA does decent dmg unlike core engi weapons) It was a huge relief when I finally got to use hammer for the 1st time.

Yannir.4132:

Leveling an engi without tomes was the most grueling experience I’ve had in GW2.

I think this is partly our fault for not giving you the resources to guide you through the leveling process properly. There is no up-to-date leveling guide that I know of, and I’m not entirely sure how the new leveling process operates as I just tomed my revenant to 80 and I leveled all classes previously to 80 back in like 2013—but I imagine it can be quite confusing to know which traits and utilities to unlock, especially since what we run in raids isn’t very survivable or solo-friendly.

I do hope you didn’t use the Metabattle build to level to 80, as it doesn’t have any real survivability traits. If you did, that might be why it was such a grueling experience.

Ideally speaking, you should take Inventions and/or Alchemy when doing open world content, and you shouldn’t use your rifle or pistol all that much. While you do use skills like Hip Shot and Jump Shot on CD, you should be spending the majority of your time using the Bomb Kit with power builds or the Grenade Kit with condition builds.

To continue the scrapper discussion, my theory is that role expectations have a big part to play in how people perceive the spec. If you look at hammer mainly as a source of DPS as part of a power DPS build you may find it effective but rather boring since as has been noted the rotations are rather simple. If however you see it more as a supplement to your kits it is actually a rather fun weapon: skills 2 to 5 are packed with reflect/evade/block/interrupt effects that will thwart your enemies and keep you alive in challenging content whilst also providing great DPS.

In a similar vein if you are looking for a class that is PvE “meta” (in the sense that it occupies a slot in an ideal 5 or 10 man group composition for raids and fractals) then you may also be disappointed since the function gyro (the unique thing the class offers to a group) offers nothing to the ideal group of skilled players. If however you like the idea of being the safety net that can carry even the most unbalanced or inexperienced groups through high-end content then the function gyro will allow you to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. I mean, I’ve had fractal runs where I’ve used that skill a dozen times to keep partymembers from dying; and runs where it has let me recover a group from situations where 3 partymembers are in downstate. Other classes can’t boast that.

And again if you are looking for skills in PvE that you can slot permanently as part of a “build” then you might distain gyros as having limited uses compared with kits or for having weak traits compared with elixirs. But if you like to swap skills to match encounters then 4 of the gyros (bulwark, purge, stealth and blast) can be just the thing to make otherwise tough challenges a doddle.

For all these reasons I like the scrapper and I wouldn’t want it to always be the master traitline that is all things to all engineers. It definitely has its flaws (targeting allies for healing with function gyro is hard at the best of times; some of the scrapper traits no longer mesh with the skills because of removed functionality; the whole superspeed facet of the class is underwhelming because of how that buff works; and the healing gyro and shredder gyro are both underperformers despite their great toolbelt skills) but there’s enough to love that it is worth unlocking if you plan to engineer long-term.

I usually play dps in fractal only becouse i have infusions on my berserker armour. I have to say that i prefer to play at high fractal with rifle rather than with hammer. ( i usually take firearms, explosive and tools ). The reason is that i find hammer really effective but boring as hell …. i know it is suboptimal but i have much more fun with hammer and i have to say that you can do really well in pve with nades, bomb and rifle. .. i don’t find it so suboptimal ….

Professor Sprout.1560:

To continue the scrapper discussion, my theory is that role expectations have a big part to play in how people perceive the spec. If you look at hammer mainly as a source of DPS as part of a power DPS build you may find it effective but rather boring since as has been noted the rotations are rather simple. If however you see it more as a supplement to your kits it is actually a rather fun weapon: skills 2 to 5 are packed with reflect/evade/block/interrupt effects that will thwart your enemies and keep you alive in challenging content whilst also providing great DPS.

But it doesn’t, because taking the Scrapper traitline by default reduces your damage output because you’re giving up Explosives, Firearms, or Tools, which all have incredibly powerful (and arguably irreplaceable) damage-oriented traits. There’s just nothing in the Scrapper line that compares to Shaped Charge, Excessive Energy, High Caliber, or Hemetic Focus that blanket-lifts your entire damage output as effectively as they do. The only thing that comes close is Applied Force, which is still incredibly mediocre in comparison.

Taking the Scrapper line is a reduction in damage output no matter how you look at it.

A reduction in damage output doesn’t exclude scrapper from having similar damage output to core engi weapons; that POV excludes the actual damage coefficients, skill execution times and ICD’s of the weapons being compared. I haven’t done the calcs but anecdotally, damage output from hammer doesn’t feel all that different than other weapons/kits. Is it the best damage output? I don’t think that’s likely, but I don’t think that’s the purpose of the provision of that weapon to begin with anyways.

I’m not certain you can ignore hammer as a power DPS build, even if it’s not the best DPS output that can be achieved. That’s a mistake in looking at the value of everything else about the game that isn’t DPS. Besides, I don’t think it’s so easily forgotten that scrapper was intended as a PVP spec, or at least, not a DPS PVE spec. I think that explains well why there is not big damage buffs in SCrapper line.

The idea that Scrapper line causes a big drop in damage to exclude hammer as a good DPS power build also ignores the fact that the optimized power DPS rotation on an engi is frankly, absurd, and something the average player would never accomplish anyways. If regular player can accomplish most of what that optimized rotation can do for DPS by camping hammer, I would say hammer is more than qualified for consideration as a power DPS build.

No one is questioning “why” the scrapper line lacks damage. Everyone knows it’s a PvP-oriented specialization, and everyone knows it’s a defense-oriented trait line.

It’s not up to me that we take a DPS-over-all approach, but when raid bosses have enrage timers, it’s the number one determining factor of a raid group’s success that everyone maximizes their damage output while running the bare minimum level of support needed for people to stay alive and maintain group buffs.

In truth, the scrapper just doesn’t compare to the supportive elements of the chronomancer, PS warrior, or druid … so there’s just not much reason to take it.

In more relaxed environments like fractals, you’re welcome to take the scrapper specialization … but the condi build is much preferred in T4s, and really doesn’t gain anything by taking the scrapper trait line.

That’s good and all, nothing to dispute there, at least nothing relevant to this thread. I just think it’s high time we look past the meta-centric view to kitten what is valued to players … when the meta-centric view of the game is highly irrelevant to most of the content, most of the players and ignores the reality that there is more to DPS than just what someone uses for a build.

It’s simply too narrow a focus to conclude a hammer power PVE build isn’t a thing or the class itself has little PVE value, just because ‘raids’.

Worth it if you just want pure fun.

Not worth it if you care only about the Meta.

Engnieer is more for people are are just loyal to the gameplay experience over concepts of meta and being the very best of the game. They are the Jack of all trades but master of none type of profession thus there are very mixed feelings for this profession.

However, what it becomes in the future with more Elite Specs being introduced will certainly be in question.

Nope.
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