Guild Wars 2

A big step to making an engineer versatile (like it’s supposed to be according to latest dev info) must be re-working every trait that pertains to specific a kit, and making them instead work on every kit.

e.g. Juggernaut works on all kits
e.g. Grenadier renamed Improved Reach and adds 300 range to all kit skills. n.b. Grenades now always throw 3 without requiring being 60level and 30points to make them even worth considering.
and so on

Then
Elixirs should be condensed to 1 elixir kit
Turrets should be condensed to 1 turret kit
same for gadgets
and long range kit added.

Engineer’s big weakness is both how pigeonholed and non-versatile our traits and skills are. Currently our traits allow us to bring just 1 kit from awful upto mediocre level, and often preclude having reliable condition removal because that relies on lots of elixirs and little or no room for anything else.

Finally the loss of utility required by compensating for our lackluster weapons with kits that remove util slots, and total absence of weapon swap, would start to make any sort of sense.

A lot of more specific work needs to be done with the amount of traits that are plain awful and never used by anyone apart from testing, no RNG anywhere, ever, the bad synergy overall, how often bad animations speeds ruin otherwise ‘useful on paper’ skills and general skills & cooldown balancing, inclusion of functioning stability on demand and gap closers on demand, quite apart from the vast and largely untouched bugs list for engineer.

Why should we get all of the buffs of elixirs into 1 utility skill when other professions have to use all 3 to get that? Your not even being reasonable here.

Turrets as a kit. eh, given there limited durability, I sometimes feel all the turrets put together are about the value of one kit

We have plenty of range. We do not need a kit for it. We have plenty of ranged skills

I disagree with your assessment of the engineers biggest weakness. I feel the engineers biggest weakness is the players, and there inability to think or act, outside the box. I literally see post daily claiming that the engineer can’t do things that myself and many others do daily with it.

By saying " Juggernaut works on all kits", are you suggesting a “encompasses all trait” that adds something different to each kit? either way I think your suggestion is over powering.

Why do you claim we lose a utility skill? That is not true. We use a utility slot to gain our choice of 5 more weapons skills as an option and option only. And any sane persona can demonstrate to you that we have some kits that have skills that are equivalent to other professions utilities in just 1/5 weapons skills. You intentionally mis-inform and mis-represent there value for your own agenda.

Once again a new repeat thread that covers the same old topic because you feel your opinion on it si so special that you get to violate the Code of Conduct, just make your own thread instead of using any of the 5,286 on this same topic.

Guild Wars 2 Forum Code of Conduct
) Read the forum before asking a question. There’s a good chance your question has already been answered, or your topic discussed.

) Use the search function before posting. This will focus the discussion and facilitate a response.

) Avoid frivolous and duplicate postings.

If you want to fix something that is clearly broken or dysfunctional. Or adjust something that is imbalanced when compared to another skill of relative effect or value I am all for it. Such as personal battering ram having the same effect and relative damage as warriors “kick”, while PBR has a 45s recast and Kick has a 20s recast. That is a justifiable imbalance. The generic things you posted are perceptions and mis-representations. Our weapons are fine. For example, pistols have comparative conditions effects and durations, as well as comparative damage coefficients. (or by the post listing all skills damage coefficients last weak all of our pistol skills but one are in the top 50% in damage coefficients). As far as rifles go, we have higher damage coefficients then the other rifle skills in the game on 3/5 skills. 1/5 is almost identical to another, and 1/5 is higher on the other. So of the rifle skills in the game, 4/5 of ours are equal to or better then other rifle skills. I do not find that to be lackluster.

As far as the RNG comments, I think almost everyone agrees with you on that.

You claim we have bad synergy over all. That is junk. Define bad synergy, and offer one iota of fact to support that. You cannot. You know why? Because you are using generic buzz words and non specific terms to justify attempting to lobby to rebuild the class to suit your personal needs. If that was not true, you would offer facts to support at least one of your changes.

As far as the bugs go. They have worked on some each update. So I think your stretching it to state that they are vastly untouched. They just fixed 2 of the biggest ones recently with weapons stats and sigils effecting kits. So I think its hard to claim they are not fixing bugs, particularly after they just fixed 2 of the most desired fixes. Hard to know what bugs to fix when every Tom, Rick, and Harry, make multiple weakly threads demanding different changes from the next thread, while spreading it out all over the engi boards in 5,286 different threads.

Compare the multiple functionality of shouts, and how many boons they give to user + others at the same time, over such a massive area, with 1 single cast, without cast times, how shouts can have armour/runes supporting them, and all the good synergy that shouts can have via well developed traits.

In comparison a kit with 5 elixirs actually is entirely reasonable.

Turrets are so paper thin that a kit full of them is just the start of what’s reasonable.

Wanting a kit that is genuinely long ranged on all it’s skills not 1/2 out of 5, and without giving away free evasion to any enemy who presses a walk button is completely reasonable.

See there was that so hard? although your being ridiculously general. You need to state how armours/runes make shouts so much more powerful then Elixirs for example. We can do everything they can do with shouts, with out elixirs.

Except we can only effect ourselves with the utility slots. To that I can see a solid point. Although shouts all have a 600 range, we can throw our elixirs up to 900 range and the outer edge of its scope will buff a player at 1200. Because of how the mechanics of throw elixirs versus shouts work, It is subjective as to whether or not a person finds those 2 points comparable.

So why does a medium range designed profession need a long range kit again? your still failing to justify a dire need, or logical reason to justify why a medium range professions deserves a long range focus, while other medium range professions such as thief do not.

I do not disagree in the slightest that turrets are underpowered. I think a “merge them into a kit” idea is horrible though.

Also,why did you make a new thread just for your post, instead of posting in the already existing threads on this topic? Posters like you are new players trying to learn cannot find usefull information that is buried in an avalanche of unnecessary, frivolous, and duplicate threads.

I suggested they allow us to bind the Kits and turrets to the F6-F9 keys so that we can still use the functionality of the kits but would be able to use the gadgets and elixirs much more effectively (which would allow us to break stuns if we’re using a heavy kit or heavy turret build.) That would instantly free up some versatility.

tigirius.9014:

I suggested they allow us to bind the Kits and turrets to the F6-F9 keys so that we can still use the functionality of the kits but would be able to use the gadgets and elixirs much more effectively (which would allow us to break stuns if we’re using a heavy kit or heavy turret build.) That would instantly free up some versatility.

Are you suggesting we get turrets/kits on top of other skills? As we can bind anything to any key in this game, that is all I can take from how you worded that post. And that is a ridiculously OP idea.

coglin.1496:

tigirius.9014:

I suggested they allow us to bind the Kits and turrets to the F6-F9 keys so that we can still use the functionality of the kits but would be able to use the gadgets and elixirs much more effectively (which would allow us to break stuns if we’re using a heavy kit or heavy turret build.) That would instantly free up some versatility.

Are you suggesting we get turrets/kits on top of other skills? As we can bind anything to any key in this game, that is all I can take from how you worded that post. And that is a ridiculously OP idea.

Not at all because that’s exactly the design of the Ele’s design, they’re foci are directly bound to Fkeys already which means they can use their utility keys freely. we have a larger number of choices when it comes to the equivalent to their foci (kits) so we should be able to bind those kits to Fkeys while allowing use of utilities so we have as many escape options as we do cc options. It’s actually only fair. Engineers were supposed to be the kings of versatility you see, not the ele’s.

turret kit might actually be a good idea . maybe mixing the 30% damage reduct with Regen trait too as they regen each 5-10s for about 10% hp.

I’d love to have all elixirs in one kit Wouldn’t be overpowered at all!

Turrets and elixirs as kits?= EXCELLENT IDEA
I think Healing turret should become more like the guardians sanctuary skill (maybe larger area)
I Know this has been said before but i would love to see engi’s have an Extra weapon slot BUT only for kits. . . . . . This would then make kits items. . . . . . and items have a legendary.. . . . . . . . .a legendary flamethrower ?!

putting things on engineer jealous view:
Eles have 4 (“KITS”) plus utilities

Malvado.1460:

putting things on engineer jealous view:
Eles have 4 (“KITS”) plus utilities

Yet there F-keys do nothing but arm their equivalents of kits, as you put it. While my utility choices give me 4 skills there, each having the usefulness and value of a elementalist utility skill, except as an engineer we get 4. They only get 3.

BurnWeed.5902:

Turrets and elixirs as kits?= EXCELLENT IDEA
I think Healing turret should become more like the guardians sanctuary skill (maybe larger area)
I Know this has been said before but i would love to see engi’s have an Extra weapon slot BUT only for kits. . . . . . This would then make kits items. . . . . . and items have a legendary.. . . . . . . . .a legendary flamethrower ?!

I’ve been idly thinking of workable variations of this idea while daydreaming at work. The least complicated alternative that I could think of (read: still pretty complicated from a coding standpoint, but less complicated than most other suggestions) would be to use the second weapon slot for a perma-flamethrower.

Think about it: the FT is arguably our most hybrid kit, providing something for condition specs, power specs, and control specs. It can also be considered one of our more iconic weapons. Also, while flat-out adding an open weapon slot for kits leads to some really complicated balance issues, limiting the slot to just one kit cuts the number of variables down significantly. It also means that the devs could get away with very little revamping of our trait lines, since full support for the FT is already in place. It’s also a thematic win that most of the FT traits are in the firearms traitline.

With a guaranteed knockback, blind, and combo field in every one of our builds, our current damage output would be perfectly justified, as versatility is assumed.

Awkward details to work out include figuring out if it would be better to keep the current 1 second swap for the FT or to put it on a 10 second swap like conventional weapons (I’d want 1 second, but would understand if that was too strong), weather to simply make it “always there” or provide drops for it (I prefer the former, but the devs could possibly adapt torches to sit in our second slot to provide stats… clunky, but possible), and what to do with the FT toolbelt skill (I could care less if they just got rid of it, but they could potentially add the functionality to Napalm and increase the cooldown, if people are really attached to it).

“So, why FT and not another kit”?
Losing BoB or Throw Wrench as a toolbelt skill would suck. Grenades are versatile in terms of damage types, but not in terms of CC, and loosing Barrage would also suck. Elixir gun has a bit too much overlap with P/ and provides no CC. Toolbelt skill concerns are the chief reason that I thought of this, really. Turning our turrets or elixirs into kits would be a MASSIVE change in functionality, as we’d be loosing 5 toolbelt skills and 5 blast finishers if we made turrets a kit, for example…

So… yeah. That’s a brainstorm idea that I’ve put a little bit of thought into (but obviously not enough to work out all the kinks). It may or may not be realistic at all, but I feel that it would be a radical upgrade to our versatility without being TOO radical, if that makes sense.

an elixir kit would be incredibly OP just saying.

coglin.1496:

Once again a new repeat thread that covers the same old topic because you feel your opinion on it si so special…

The only person who thinks their opinion is so special when one of these threads comes up is yourself, as you’ve shown time and time again, I see you are now under the delusion that you are also a moderator…

But anyway back to the OP, yes they do need to do something, as engi fails miserably in being versatile, so making more traits kit-wide would be a start, though I think putting the elixirs in a kit would be OP.

Frankly I think the problem (outside traits, which is a pretty poor trait system full stop, not just in regard to engies) is that three utlity slots is not enough to provide versatility when you have forgone a weapon swap and have lower base damage and need to compensate for. (and looks embarrasingly one dimensional when compared to certain Ele builds, and is not any more versatile than some builds on other classes, in some cases falling hugely behind in terms of utility, mesmer for example)

Given that they are unlikely to have a complete makeover so soon after launch, I think the easiest solution would be to give engies an extra utlity slot.

coglin.1496:

I feel the engineers biggest weakness is the players, and there inability to think or act, outside the box.

Yes. we know. All other engineers are hopelessly locked into bad attitudes and none of them know how to play except people who use Elixir gun, bomb kit and toolkit with slick shoes and rocket boots in WvW.

Sylosi.6503:

But anyway back to the OP, yes they do need to do something, as engi fails miserably in being versatile, so making more traits kit-wide would be a start, though I think putting the elixirs in a kit would be OP.

Given that they are unlikely to have a complete makeover so soon after launch, I think the easiest solution would be to give engies an extra utlity slot.

Agree on both these counts. No kit has a stun break, so all engineers are required to dedicate one of their three slots (and the corresponding toolbelt slot) to that function. That all by itself cuts the possible builds by a lot, and it hurts us more than other professions because again, you’re dedicating BOTH the utility slot AND the toolbelt slot to a utility you otherwise wouldn’t take. I’m pretty sure when devs discuss among their-selves how “versatile” we are, they’re counting both those slots towards that versatility.

If we had a good selection of stun breaks to choose from to complement our build, that’d be less of a problem. If most kits had a stunbreak in either the main or the toolbelt ability, it’d be less of a problem. Heck, if we had a useful stunbreaking TRAIT to alleviate the problem, we’d have some versatility back. Any of these would free up a slot so that we wouldn’t need another utility slot to be “versatile”.

Kit refinement is an example of how to do multi-kit traits right, although even it is weak with some kits… especially bomb kit. Many of the other traits are just prereqs for the kit to be useful at all, and don’t function as actual choices.

Manticore Five.9867:

Sylosi.6503:

But anyway back to the OP, yes they do need to do something, as engi fails miserably in being versatile, so making more traits kit-wide would be a start, though I think putting the elixirs in a kit would be OP.

Given that they are unlikely to have a complete makeover so soon after launch, I think the easiest solution would be to give engies an extra utlity slot.

Agree on both these counts. No kit has a stun break, so all engineers are required to dedicate one of their three slots (and the corresponding toolbelt slot) to that function. That all by itself cuts the possible builds by a lot, and it hurts us more than other professions because again, you’re dedicating BOTH the utility slot AND the toolbelt slot to a utility you otherwise wouldn’t take. I’m pretty sure when devs discuss among their-selves how “versatile” we are, they’re counting both those slots towards that versatility.

If we had a good selection of stun breaks to choose from to complement our build, that’d be less of a problem. If most kits had a stunbreak in either the main or the toolbelt ability, it’d be less of a problem. Heck, if we had a useful stunbreaking TRAIT to alleviate the problem, we’d have some versatility back. Any of these would free up a slot so that we wouldn’t need another utility slot to be “versatile”.

Kit refinement is an example of how to do multi-kit traits right, although even it is weak with some kits… especially bomb kit. Many of the other traits are just prereqs for the kit to be useful at all, and don’t function as actual choices.

I wonder what they were thinking for the kit refinement on med kit.

waka.9826:

I wonder what they were thinking for the kit refinement on med kit.

Interesting. That’d be a GREAT place to take an unimaginative skill out and put a stun break in. Obviously it’d need more of a cooldown, but imagine a “stim” that cures one condition and breaks stun. That’d free up a utility slot right there for anyone using refinement and med kit.

EDIT: That’s true, waka. Why did you have to dash my dreams with cold hard reality, you monster?

Manticore Five.9867:

waka.9826:

I wonder what they were thinking for the kit refinement on med kit.

Interesting. That’d be a GREAT place to take an unimaginative skill out and put a stun break in. Obviously it’d need more of a cooldown, but imagine a “stim” that cures one condition and breaks stun. That’d free up a utility slot right there for anyone using refinement and med kit.

eh, that still wouldnt be a good enough reason for me to not take a stun breaker for 2 reasons.

1)You go into medkit too often to use your medpacks / peram swiftness so you would essentially waste your stun breaker and be caught off guard without it often.

2) Stun breaks that only simply break the stun and nothing else usually never save you because of multi stuns / stuns like basilisk venom.

I would still feel the need to take elixir s

waka.9826:

Manticore Five.9867:

waka.9826:

I wonder what they were thinking for the kit refinement on med kit.

Interesting. That’d be a GREAT place to take an unimaginative skill out and put a stun break in. Obviously it’d need more of a cooldown, but imagine a “stim” that cures one condition and breaks stun. That’d free up a utility slot right there for anyone using refinement and med kit.

eh, that still wouldnt be a good enough reason for me to not take a stun breaker for 2 reasons.

1)You go into medkit too often to use your medpacks / peram swiftness so you would essentially waste your stun breaker and be caught off guard without it often.

2) Stun breaks that only simply break the stun and nothing else usually never save you because of multi stuns / stuns like basilisk venom.

I would still feel the need to take elixir s

Elixir S is amazing, can’t leave home without it. I don’t see why kit refinement for medkit doesn’t just cleanse a condition, or give regen, or, you know, something somewhat associated with what medkit is for lol. I’m never like, “well this guy is in my face, time to switch to medkit for some offense”

Choops.3710:

waka.9826:

Manticore Five.9867:

waka.9826:

I wonder what they were thinking for the kit refinement on med kit.

Interesting. That’d be a GREAT place to take an unimaginative skill out and put a stun break in. Obviously it’d need more of a cooldown, but imagine a “stim” that cures one condition and breaks stun. That’d free up a utility slot right there for anyone using refinement and med kit.

eh, that still wouldnt be a good enough reason for me to not take a stun breaker for 2 reasons.

1)You go into medkit too often to use your medpacks / peram swiftness so you would essentially waste your stun breaker and be caught off guard without it often.

2) Stun breaks that only simply break the stun and nothing else usually never save you because of multi stuns / stuns like basilisk venom.

I would still feel the need to take elixir s

Elixir S is amazing, can’t leave home without it. I don’t see why kit refinement for medkit doesn’t just cleanse a condition, or give regen, or, you know, something somewhat associated with what medkit is for lol

No choops you are being illogical here! Obviously bandaids are made to explode, never question ANET logic.

Clearly you aren’t buying the right brand of band-aid. (That’s a pun, for those playing the home game, since band-aid is a brand).

coglin.1496:

Malvado.1460:

putting things on engineer jealous view:
Eles have 4 (“KITS”) plus utilities

Yet there F-keys do nothing but arm their equivalents of kits, as you put it. While my utility choices give me 4 skills there, each having the usefulness and value of a elementalist utility skill, except as an engineer we get 4. They only get 3.

Well, our toolbelts are supposed to be balanced (damage and cooldown wise) to be less effective than slot skills. If they were equivalent to slot skills then someone rolling three utility skills (instead of kits) would have access to six really good abilities, and would be over powered in the eyes of other classes.

One problem with this idea is that some of our toolbelts do in fact have the same level of utility as a slot skill, like BoB, grenade barrage and throw elixir R among others. I guess we do pay for this versatility (ie having more slot skills) in the damage of our main attacks, but this has the effect of people viewing our abilities as spammy as opposed to effective.

Also, since we have this hybrid system where some toolbelt skills are as powerful as slot skills (those that belong to most kits, like grenade, bomb, and med-kit), and some are balanced to be weak because they’re not meant to be slot skills (toss elixir U/C come to mind) we might get taxed on both fronts. We might get taxed for having extra utility slots by doing less damage per attack (meaning we have to attack a lot more than other classes) and we get taxed by not having a weapon swap.

Or everything is balanced to be this way and we’re worrying ourselves into little old men over this toolbelt.

JohnDied.3476:

coglin.1496:

Malvado.1460:

putting things on engineer jealous view:
Eles have 4 (“KITS”) plus utilities

Yet there F-keys do nothing but arm their equivalents of kits, as you put it. While my utility choices give me 4 skills there, each having the usefulness and value of a elementalist utility skill, except as an engineer we get 4. They only get 3.

Well, our toolbelts are supposed to be balanced (damage and cooldown wise) to be less effective than slot skills. If they were equivalent to slot skills then someone rolling three utility skills (instead of kits) would have access to six really good abilities, and would be over powered in the eyes of other classes.

One problem with this idea is that some of our toolbelts do in fact have the same level of utility as a slot skill, like BoB, grenade barrage and throw elixir R among others. I guess we do pay for this versatility (ie having more slot skills) in the damage of our main attacks, but this has the effect of people viewing our abilities as spammy as opposed to effective.

Also, since we have this hybrid system where some toolbelt skills are as powerful as slot skills (those that belong to most kits, like grenade, bomb, and med-kit), and some are balanced to be weak because they’re not meant to be slot skills (toss elixir U/C come to mind) we might get taxed on both fronts. We might get taxed for having extra utility slots by doing less damage per attack (meaning we have to attack a lot more than other classes) and we get taxed by not having a weapon swap.

Or everything is balanced to be this way and we’re worrying ourselves into little old men over this toolbelt.

but we SOLD 5 weapon skill slots to get those 4!

If I give them 5 dollars for 4 bags and 4$ worth of goodies to put in that bag, I don’t want to see the bags only be able to carry 75c worth of stuff.

waka.9826:

Choops.3710:

waka.9826:

Manticore Five.9867:

waka.9826:

I wonder what they were thinking for the kit refinement on med kit.

Interesting. That’d be a GREAT place to take an unimaginative skill out and put a stun break in. Obviously it’d need more of a cooldown, but imagine a “stim” that cures one condition and breaks stun. That’d free up a utility slot right there for anyone using refinement and med kit.

eh, that still wouldnt be a good enough reason for me to not take a stun breaker for 2 reasons.

1)You go into medkit too often to use your medpacks / peram swiftness so you would essentially waste your stun breaker and be caught off guard without it often.

2) Stun breaks that only simply break the stun and nothing else usually never save you because of multi stuns / stuns like basilisk venom.

I would still feel the need to take elixir s

Elixir S is amazing, can’t leave home without it. I don’t see why kit refinement for medkit doesn’t just cleanse a condition, or give regen, or, you know, something somewhat associated with what medkit is for lol

No choops you are being illogical here! Obviously bandaids are made to explode, never question ANET logic.

I apologize, I’ll go back to sorting my socks alphabetically.

Daigle.8497:

JohnDied.3476:

coglin.1496:

Malvado.1460:

putting things on engineer jealous view:
Eles have 4 (“KITS”) plus utilities

Yet there F-keys do nothing but arm their equivalents of kits, as you put it. While my utility choices give me 4 skills there, each having the usefulness and value of a elementalist utility skill, except as an engineer we get 4. They only get 3.

Well, our toolbelts are supposed to be balanced (damage and cooldown wise) to be less effective than slot skills. If they were equivalent to slot skills then someone rolling three utility skills (instead of kits) would have access to six really good abilities, and would be over powered in the eyes of other classes.

One problem with this idea is that some of our toolbelts do in fact have the same level of utility as a slot skill, like BoB, grenade barrage and throw elixir R among others. I guess we do pay for this versatility (ie having more slot skills) in the damage of our main attacks, but this has the effect of people viewing our abilities as spammy as opposed to effective.

Also, since we have this hybrid system where some toolbelt skills are as powerful as slot skills (those that belong to most kits, like grenade, bomb, and med-kit), and some are balanced to be weak because they’re not meant to be slot skills (toss elixir U/C come to mind) we might get taxed on both fronts. We might get taxed for having extra utility slots by doing less damage per attack (meaning we have to attack a lot more than other classes) and we get taxed by not having a weapon swap.

Or everything is balanced to be this way and we’re worrying ourselves into little old men over this toolbelt.

but we SOLD 5 weapon skill slots to get those 4!

If I give them 5 dollars for 4 bags and 4$ worth of goodies to put in that bag, I don’t want to see the bags only be able to carry 75c worth of stuff.

I’m confused

We got shorted on the toolbelt. =<

Heheh, I wouldn’t mind the med kit refinement being an explosion so much if it actually did noticeable damage…although I agree that a short regen or condition cleanse (on a cooldown, of course) would make much more sense.

no we didnt. we get 5 "weaponized" kit skills and an F "utility equivalent" skill usable with each kit (equipped or stowed), combined with faster weapon swapping than a warrior to also give us weapon skills in the mix.

thats up to 5 weapons, 4 utilities.

eles get 4 weapons, 3 utilities.

where do we get shorted? a lack of stun break?

fine, 4 weapons, 3 utilities, one side effect, and one stun break with side effects.

hmm.

nakoda.4213:

no we didnt. we get 5 “weaponized” kit skills and an F “utility equivalent” skill usable with each kit (equipped or stowed), combined with faster weapon swapping than a warrior to also give us weapon skills in the mix.

thats up to 5 weapons, 4 utilities.

eles get 4 weapons, 3 utilities.

where do we get shorted? a lack of stun break?

fine, 4 weapons, 3 utilities, one side effect, and one stun break with side effects.

hmm.

That was in context of discussion of the toolbelt.

If we were to run a 4 kit build, our F-utilities: We have a pool of exactly 1/3 Healing skills, and 5 out of all our utilities, paying for the pidgeon hole we’re getting ourselves into.

If comparing to the Eles, they get passive attunement buffs, and can use their full utility list.

As for the toolbelt skills ON those kits.. they’re worthy of being utility skills on their own. For many of the OTHER skills, however, the effects are either too weak or cooldowns are too long IMO. A bunch of the Toss Elixir effects don’t warrant having a 90s cooldown, and other things people have repeated ad-infinitum.

med kit, grenade kit, elixer R, net turret.

perma swiftness, end recharge, stun break, dmg, control, revive, mobility, and more.

and thats just one combination with 2 weapons, 5 utilities, and a (granted, situational) pet. ...

Well as long as the toolbelt skill on Kits are appropriatlely powerful to compensate for the lost Utility I think the Kits are fine.

Grenade- Barrage, I think most would argue while not very utility it still packs enough of a punch to be considered “good”, if not better.

Bomb- Big Ole, yeah I dont think anyone ever has complained about the usefulness of this bad boy.

Tools- Wrench, Tossing this sucker does decent damage, but could probably get the cripple without a trait to bring it more in line.

Elixer- Regen, kinda weak for a utility, maybe if it was a shorter cooldown.

Flamethrower- Ammo, yeah this is garbage.

So not bad really.

Take a good look at our gadgets and potions. Most of these by themselves fulfill the function of a utility slot quite well, so their toolbelt counterparts should be somewhat weak, but not all of them are.

Turrets. Well, most of the Toolbelt skills are garbage, but I guess its cause they can all be blast finishers too? Ever seen the healing 3 turrets exploding in a water field can do?

nakoda.4213:

med kit, grenade kit, elixer R, net turret.

perma swiftness, end recharge, stun break, dmg, control, revive, mobility, and more.

and thats just one combination with 2 weapons, 5 utilities, and a (granted, situational) pet. …

I’m just saying if our entire class mechanic revolves around our utility skills in general… it shouldn’t hurt to ask for any 3 of these things.

A. more Utility slots
B. more Choice of freedom over Toolbelt skills
C. Toolbelt skills that don’t have obscenely long cooldowns or useful effects.

Netheren.3261:

Well as long as the toolbelt skill on Kits are appropriatlely powerful to compensate for the lost Utility I think the Kits are fine.

Grenade- Barrage, I think most would argue while not very utility it still packs enough of a punch to be considered “good”, if not better.

Bomb- Big Ole, yeah I dont think anyone ever has complained about the usefulness of this bad boy.

Tools- Wrench, Tossing this sucker does decent damage, but could probably get the cripple without a trait to bring it more in line.

Elixer- Regen, kinda weak for a utility, maybe if it was a shorter cooldown.

Flamethrower- Ammo, yeah this is garbage.

So not bad really.

Take a good look at our gadgets and potions. Most of these by themselves fulfill the function of a utility slot quite well, so their toolbelt counterparts should be somewhat weak, but not all of them are.

Turrets. Well, most of the Toolbelt skills are garbage, but I guess its cause they can all be blast finishers too? Ever seen the healing 3 turrets exploding in a water field can do?

Think of it this way…

If you took gadgets and potions… would you look at your toolbelt skills and go “That is definitely better weapon swapping and a class mechanic!”?

For sure, but the easiest solution is to keep everything the same, but if you dont have a kit equipped in your utility slots you get a weapon swap. Well maybe not easiest.
But simple for sure.

To start balancing within the Engineer profession kits need to be seperated from utility slots. Right now they are making a bundle of 5 skills compete for a utility slot with a single skill.
From the few written pieces ANet has on the Engineer they seem intent on forcing us into multiple kits anyway.

Might aswell go hard. Replace toolbelt with slots to place kits into. Some toolbelt skills can be reincarnated as proper utility skills. And others integrated into kits as part of the 5 skills.
Now you have a baseline where every Engineer has access to X number of kits ontop of his weapon aswell as 3 utility slots for real utility skills. This foundation makes for a much easier platform to build up from.

Alternatively, go whole hog. Leave the toolbelt, and swap 4 weapons slots for 4 more utility slots. (Or a 2-slot Weapon kit).

No thanks. I like kits, and I really enjoy the way most of the toolbelt skills perform. If players want the class defining kits and class defining F skills different, they need to play a different class.

It is much more reasonable for the few the dislike them to play a different profession, then it is for those few to have it changed to hurt the rest of us.

I found all the kits to be useful in their own way, I really don’t want to change anything on them.

I only want the Jump Shot to be fixed. Oh, and maybe some better downed skills. (And I’d want Anet to stop nerfing us)