Guild Wars 2

Because we haven’t had a med-kit thread in a while…

There’s no reason that Engineer should be as bad as it is as a healer. We have so many healing-oriented traits that this should be a non-issue, but nevertheless it is.

My vision is that Med-Kit be reworked slightly to be a more viable option.

Where Engineer healing skills should be in terms of role:
Elixir H: SHOULD be the best personal option.
Healing Turret: SHOULD be the best compromise between self-heal and heal support, and potential offensive option when traited with explosives for the knock-back.
Med-kit: SHOULD be the best party healing option.
Medi Gyro: SHOULD be the best option for Scrapper when traited with Gyro traits.

My suggestions are:
1) Obviously, like many players have been saying, increase the base and scaling outgoing healing on Med-kit 1. For a skill that does not do damage or heal the engineer itself it should be fairly powerful.
2) Med-kit skills 2-5 should not be pick-up items, but PBAoE healing pulses for allies, which heals the engineer for 10% of that value, with cleansing synergy increasing it. For each outgoing ally hit by that skill, it increases that self-healing by +10%. So the maximum value that would be healed is 50% of the outgoing pulse. The idea is that this kit should be awful when the engineer is alone, but scale up in usefulness when surrounded by allies.
3) The resistance up-time on Throw Antidote should be increased to 5 seconds…personally I would like some quickness as well to help out the chronomancer in the party with their rotations, but that probably won’t happen.

With some boon duration, an Engi healer would be effective at keeping fury up for the party (in case the party doesn’t have a revenant), while being powerful at lower, but sustained healing and condition removal. Druid would be better at burst healing, Tempest at throwing down water fields, and Ventari Revenant for reflects (which looks important for the future Slothasor fight).

What do you guys think? Any suggestions and/or criticisms?

Good idea, but keep down.
I am pro to make engi viable "medic " but you must hold the lore of this proffesion. You cant make heal around you like druid or ele, so, we are alchemists too right? What about throw med pack(like toss elixirs) and after they land, they provide aoe heal+ boon share.

One thing which can be great can be defibrilator xD never mind, but devs should do something with med kit. We have plenty viable traits to make great healer, but med kit ruining our dream, so I still hope that devs read this :-)

I like that idea of keeping the throwable potions from med kit, where they AoE pulse from where you drop them instead of having to be picked up. That seems like a fun idea.

It would make Med-kit very fun to use in all game modes!

Without any significant effort and effect on current ‘balance’.. Revert ground targetting back to orginal putting under feet mechanic. Ofc Medkit will need much more work to be viable choice but its start.

Oh, thanks. Yea I still feel that you must have skills which is unique for engi.

So let’s discuss about this.

Med kit should make engi as medium range healer. He can be taken for some boon uptime. Like a must hero tybalt ( he’s engi too) we can share rare boon -ressistance. Not 100% uptime. This can be on 5 skill in med kit , 240yd ground target aoe, 300heal(*0,25) 3 pulses. Each pulse 2sec ressistance and CD 25sec.

4th skill should be quickness. Same heal as skill 5, quick apply 2 sec too, 3 pulses and cd 20-24sec.

3rd skill can apply protection – 2sec per pulse and cd 15sec. (Meaby 1sec prot per pulse)

2nd skill alsoapply fury-2sec per pulse, 12sec cd. Same heal as others. And ground target too.

1st skill…my suggestion is to make heal chain! Healing must be a bit dificult and we pay time in med kit instead of dpsing. So, 1st chain throw med pack which make field- after impact it heal for 300(0,4)this field lasts for 3 sec and each sec apply random offensive boon for 5sec(2might dtack, fury, etc) second chain is same but field apply defensive boons. Last chain can have best healing (17000,7) cast time 1,5sec and field apply 2 random boon every sec-1def and 1offensive.

This is only idea. Numbers and some mechanics can be changed.

My suggestions are:
1) Obviously, like many players have been saying, increase the base and scaling outgoing healing on Med-kit 1. For a skill that does not do damage or heal the engineer itself it should be fairly powerful.

No. The reason for this is actually kind okittenward but Anet specifically stated in the beginning of the game that there are no healers. The engineer cannot actually encompass it. It is not like say a water elementalist that can still do damage; the medkit conceptually shouldn’t exist and didn’t when it first came out and the changes they made were meant to encourage you to swap into and out of it not for you to hang out trying to use a reverse flamethrower.

Basically no one wants you to stay in it. That’s why it sucks. Because it’s supposed to.

2) Med-kit skills 2-5 should not be pick-up items, but PBAoE healing pulses for allies, which heals the engineer for 10% of that value, with cleansing synergy increasing it. For each outgoing ally hit by that skill, it increases that self-healing by +10%. So the maximum value that would be healed is 50% of the outgoing pulse. The idea is that this kit should be awful when the engineer is alone, but scale up in usefulness when surrounded by allies.

That kills bunker down. No thanks. I like bunker down. The next point is that it’s an AoE which means it has a set area and thus cannot be thrown, cannot be tactically laid, and cannot be self-applied; a big boon of the whole ordeal behind laying them down is you can do it at your own feet for full effect with a swift swap in and out thus giving yourself, if you’re inclined, permanent regeneration with skill 2.

The PBAoE would probably undo that, create fixed spots, remove tactical ability, and with the weaker self-heal make medkit the absolute worst kit for the engineer himself. Not to mention we have to work with the size of this AoE field and rework the various things that are tied to it since if it’s pulsing an outgoing set of boons instead of simply applying them that means the pulses actually have lesser effect per pulse equally reducing the effectiveness if the players are forced to abandon the area.

This is actually closer to what Experimental Turrets is now only it doesn’t heal.

3) The resistance up-time on Throw Antidote should be increased to 5 seconds…personally I would like some quickness as well to help out the chronomancer in the party with their rotations, but that probably won’t happen.

5s resistance removes tactical value esp. if it’s pulsing resistance. Keep in mind if you have more than one engineer you can create a lot of this stuff and it will stack so the more forgiving each of your AoEs is when we talk about stacking the more effective and thus the less intriguing and dangerous the game becomes. The game isn’t that dangerous (or intriguing) to begin with.

I personally am not against these changes but they don’t improve anything per se. The real problem with medkit is that it doesn’t deal damage. Bunker Down is what medkit wishes it was basically; it’s a skill that is offensive and defensive at the same time, elixir gun has this stuff, but med kit no matter how ridiculously OP you make it just won’t be that good. It’s almost always detrimental to run non-damaging skills that don’t have a distinct utility.

Good point, thanks.
But it cannot be offensive, it is heal utility skill so… what about shared cd. If you use any skill in med kit it will have for example 8sec cd(2nd skill) and other 4 skills will start they 8src cd as well.

This will give choice what you currently demand. You cant spam heal skills, but you swap to med kit, use one of 5skills, and swap back. So med kit will have one global cd. What do you think?

David.5974:

Good point, thanks.
But it cannot be offensive, it is heal utility skill so… what about shared cd. If you use any skill in med kit it will have for example 8sec cd(2nd skill) and other 4 skills will start they 8src cd as well.

This will give choice what you currently demand. You cant spam heal skills, but you swap to med kit, use one of 5skills, and swap back. So med kit will have one global cd. What do you think?

Shared CD then removes the viability of the whole thing because you can’t stack the effects. It also doesn’t solve the multiple engineer problem or the stacking issues. The thing about the current medkit is that it’s dumb, but it’s spammable and ridiculously easy to use for everyone and while your change would add the tactical consideration back in it also creates a BiS skill which means that it renders 4 of the skills useless compared to the 1. You only take it for one skill, you lay the AoE for whatever it is (likely that resistance change), and you are on your jolly way back to whatever corner you’re stacked in pressing 1 with your flamethrower again.

It’s not that it’s wrong or that you’re missing the point but instead its just hard to not abuse while also making it fun and open enough for people to want to play. Basically it’s trying to avoid “THE META” effect; medkit just isn’t appealing to most people because of the meta not really because it’s all broken and kitten. I mean the heal gun is dumb as hell but the old medkit was … intriguing.

It wouldn’t pulse multiple times, only once. So you get 5s of resistance every 20 seconds. Essentially, it is simply applying boons, as you say. I only mention pulse because from a thematic viewpoint, it would be a “pulse” of healing. But yes, it would have more in common with an elixir toss.

If Anet doesn’t want the healing archetype to exist, then what about Druid? Irenio even mentioned that Druid was not a significant damage spec, and intended to be a heal-based spec. Remember that for pugs and uncoordinated groups, the most popular raid Druid spec involves almost complete healing gear.

Now, for bunker down. In Raids and fractals, bunker down is useless. I would only use the trait in PvP for the self-heal capabilities. The intent of my changes to the kit is to open the option for Engineer to be a prominent heal support much like the druid, tempest or ventari rev, though filling a different niche.

But I don’t want it to do what Healing Turret currently does to all other heal options, in that Healing Turret overshadows all others. I can’t rightly suggest that Med-kit be more beneficial to the engineer itself, because then they’ll just take med-kit over healing turret when they want a more “personal” healing option. Hence my suggestion to make med-kit a worse option to heal the engineer than heal turret, but a better option to heal party members. The Engineer itself has the tool-belt skill to heal itself, which I think is fine in its current iteration.

But there is one problem… what med kit offer diffrent of druid, ele or rev? Boon share is my lazy suggestion (because medy have trait in alchemy).

Healing isn’t bad from 1st skill. Meaby increase spray duration from 1,5 to 3s.(like flame jet on ft) but you hyped me, I must make some testing in action.

Why is boon share a lazy suggestion? Revenant brings the boon share in the form of a power build, why not have Engineer bring the boon share in the form of a superior condition build?

You don’t need to down play ideas as lazy. Warrior’s current position as a meta PvE class stands on lazy design, in a sense.

Anyway, I think to find Engi’s niche, we need to look at what other builds lack. Druid is a burst healer, it does not sustain at a constant rate. Revenant has sustain healing, but it’s tied to the Ventari tablet, and Revenant can’t constantly swap legends. Tempest is similar to Revenant, and has high condition removal, but is pretty inflexible with other trait-lines.

The options include: crowd control, protection, supplying offensive boons, boon duration on specific boons, mobility…anything else? Though one might be able to argue that the ability to unconditionally swap to the “heal mode” is fairly unique. Druid needs to build-up the Avatar, Elementalist needs to be in water, Revenant needs to be in Ventari. Being able to squad heal then immediately go back into the damage mode seems like a big plus.

I think some AOE pulse would be cool too.

Also think that the +33% outgoing healing is a nice trait, I think they should build on that and add more stuff that benefits from that bonus >> makes you want to keep the kit in your hands a bit more.

At the moment I’m playing a spec that’s hanging around with the medkit equipped a lot, and it’s working quite well but requires planning and party coordination to achieve best results.

Biggest problem are the throwable packs, especially the cast speed and consumption range, often it lands next to someone and they don’t notice it so that boon is wasted, or your target has already moved while the pack was flying through the air.

What I also feel missing is some kind of AOE pulse throwable, anything that would work in synergy with med blaster and the bonus healing from the trait, like a mini version of Super Elixir.

Perhaps even more toned down versions of other skills, like another Toss Elixir R with only 10-20% effectiveness, combined with some boon so you could toss this around when nobody is eating dirt as well.

I don’t think they should make med blaster too powerful on it’s own, because it works really well combined with Super Elixir/Elixir Shell + Regen and some boons on your targets, but if you could slam that mini SE + SE on top of each other and blast away for a bit more health it wouldn’t hurt and would require a bit more user input than just a number juggle.

:)

Another score! Yes, druid have cele form, ventari etc. We have med kit!
Could you imagine add to our complex condi rotation a healing from another kit??! Thats cool! this can be more hardest build ever if they make some changes in med kit

Okay what we offer if we get what we want in med kit?
Condi healer: traits: explosives/firearms/alchemy(on need swap explosives for inventions) some healing power to stat contribution, but everything be same like now. SE is not nessesary. Even if dps droped by 50% it’s still decent dps heal. Put fire bomb and go back to heal, sounds good.

Throw med fields can work. (I am not medic, but adrenal injection can apply vigor, this one boon I think is not too much frequent in boon sharing) but sadly, I think that this suggestions is only between us, and nobody of dev team never see this topic

Edit: Some ideas:
Quality of life sharing(superspeed, vigor, instantly heal downed player by x% on impact, increase all current applied boon duration on impact for 5 players by 2sec?, increase boon dura for impacted area)
Or basic def/offense boon share

I like all those ideas. Even if the dev team doesn’t see this one thread, if the community begins perpetuating good ideas in a constructive fashion using critical thought, then eventually devs will notice.

Notice me dev-senpais!

Eastcorn.5901:

It wouldn’t pulse multiple times, only once. So you get 5s of resistance every 20 seconds. Essentially, it is simply applying boons, as you say. I only mention pulse because from a thematic viewpoint, it would be a “pulse” of healing. But yes, it would have more in common with an elixir toss.

I can’t say that is good or bad but if it becomes just an elixir toss isn’t that redundant? How do you make it more appealing than a base level elixir exactly and thus worth running? I am still not sure on the 10% take-away piece though for the self-heal. You only get one heal skill and this definitely not for emergencies.

If Anet doesn’t want the healing archetype to exist, then what about Druid? Irenio even mentioned that Druid was not a significant damage spec, and intended to be a heal-based spec. Remember that for pugs and uncoordinated groups, the most popular raid Druid spec involves almost complete healing gear.

This is new. It seems Anet has shifted gears since Tempest is clearly damage based, as is Reaper, Herald is support, etc. That said if this was the case they wouldn’t build this into a kit, they’d build it into a trait line, I.E. Scrapper which for all rights and purposes is effectively a “Bruiser” class now. Don’t ask me why they shifted gears but you’re right.

Now, for bunker down. In Raids and fractals, bunker down is useless. I would only use the trait in PvP for the self-heal capabilities. The intent of my changes to the kit is to open the option for Engineer to be a prominent heal support much like the druid, tempest or ventari rev, though filling a different niche.

Raids yes, fractals I disagree, but it’s useful for the extra attack if you end up on your own. It’s saved me a few times, but that’s just personal experience, and thus not particularly meaningful. As for being comparable I don’t think, esp. if Anet is moving towards class roles, Engineer will ever be allowed in that club. Elixir-infused bombs was their ticket in and it was removed probably to lessen the notion and “refit the engineer to where they envisioned it”. I’m relatively sure they will never fit that niche now.

But I don’t want it to do what Healing Turret currently does to all other heal options, in that Healing Turret overshadows all others. I can’t rightly suggest that Med-kit be more beneficial to the engineer itself, because then they’ll just take med-kit over healing turret when they want a more “personal” healing option. Hence my suggestion to make med-kit a worse option to heal the engineer than heal turret, but a better option to heal party members. The Engineer itself has the tool-belt skill to heal itself, which I think is fine in its current iteration.

But I would think that would be best. The reason being that turret, you lay it, you forget it, medkit is a kit, you swap with it, you engage it, you are not just click and forget with an occassional self-destruct for a burst of healing. There’s no intimacy in the heals of the Engineer and A.E.D. can just go to hell.

But I can see why you would want this. I just don’t think it’s necessarily the way to go because if there’s no personal incentive even though you envision a world where you would take it I can’t say anyone else would. The big incentives for Druid / Rev / Ele is basically they are invincible themselves. It just so happens they help others in the process.

But maybe I am thinking too hard on balance and matching both direction of the designer and the real direction of the player’s intentions. EIB was probably the best mix of both worlds and bunker down as it’s replacement just … isn’t.

Med kit(MK) is rubbish, the person who designed it either has no idea about Engineer or Engineer play to any sort of remotely proficient level. In fact it could be argued they dont play the game at all with how terrible it is.

The healing options for Engineer are limited by the AoE radius, why does a skill that is meant to enhance our blasts, Soothing Detonation(SD) have a radius of 240 rather than the radius of a blast finisher at 360? They increased the radius of Medical Dispersion Field(MDF) to 360 but bewilderingly left SD at 240. Which to me seems to be a trait meant to directly boost our blasts.

Having said that with all the healing traits you can actually put out some really nice numbers for healing.

I crunched some numbers on SD, a mild dip into healing power, say 300, means ur detonation will be 400 with no ICD. So throwing down a water field and blasting it twice will throw out on top of your 2 blasts for 2760(@300 healing power) another 800hps so a total of 3560 burst healing for your group. which is okish, throw some monk runes in there and delicious rice balls for 20% outgoing healing means you now have 4272 burst for those 2 blasts which is tidy.

If the water field was generated by say a healing turret, the healing increases further, throwing down the turret at 300 healing power nets you 2670 from the turret burst(add 20% for the outgoing healing = 3204) now add on the 2 blasts plus soothing detonation for a total of 7476. This is all calculated without taking into account the +250 healing power from Energy Amplifier(EA) for using a healing skill(healing turret).

MDF is interesting now they have removed the ICD and given it a 360 radius, i tested it at 240 radius with the 5sec ICD and it was useless. If i heal myself in the above scenario say for 4272 MDF will boost that burst healing up to 5126. Take the healing turret with 2 blasts @ 7476 gives us 8971, that is at 300 healing power not accounting for EA’s +250 HP.

Med Kit isn’t as bad as people think it is. That said if there were any changes I would make the 1 – 5 Elixirs that are AoE for skills 2 – 5 for a radius of 240. Lower the cast times of 2 – 5 to 1/4s (let the rest of travel time to the ground targeted spot compensate for the rest of the time lost).

The main problem with MK 1 is that we don’t have many active ways to apply boons to allies to augment the results. As a result it will always be lack luster in performance unless you a Rev, Ele combination to support (both of which definitely don’t need your help). It would also help if Med Kit 1 also briefly applied a random boon from a small list of boons at the end of it’s cast (to the Engineer as well).

Med Kit 5 should either have a 6 sec resistance boon to self or in this proposed solution be 3 secs to 5 targets.

Similarly if it is AoE to 5 allies the healing amount will have to be dropped to be on par with Med Kit 1 heals to the party.

The Magnetic Aura thingy granted by Streamlined Kits should be increased to about 4 seconds.

LilBiM.3581:

Med Kit isn’t as bad as people think it is. That said if there were any changes I would make the 1 – 5 Elixirs that are AoE for skills 2 – 5 for a radius of 240. Lower the cast times of 2 – 5 to 1/4s (let the rest of travel time to the ground targeted spot compensate for the rest of the time lost).

The main problem with MK 1 is that we don’t have many active ways to apply boons to allies to augment the results. As a result it will always be lack luster in performance unless you a Rev, Ele combination to support (both of which definitely don’t need your help). It would also help if Med Kit 1 also briefly applied a random boon from a small list of boons at the end of it’s cast (to the Engineer as well).

Med Kit 5 should either have a 6 sec resistance boon to self or in this proposed solution be 3 secs to 5 targets.

Similarly if it is AoE to 5 allies the healing amount will have to be dropped to be on par with Med Kit 1 heals to the party.

The Magnetic Aura thingy granted by Streamlined Kits should be increased to about 4 seconds.

Another good ideas. But be carefull with ressistance. If you can put ressit for 6 sec – this can be increase in pvp up to (50% rev buff, 20% alchemy, 20% rune) up to 90% boon dura so for 11sec. And this can be much OP. I reccomend dont implement med kit to pvp (easy solution-no condi removes/negation)