Guild Wars 2

I don’t feel the healing nor does anyone else. Why does this trait exist?

Medical Dispersion Field

Yeah, I’ve used it, in fact I’ve extensively tried out every combination of healing/supporty traits trying to find something that feels as good as Elixir Infused Bombs, and not only does nothing come close to it, nothing comes close to feeling decent or fun.

Yeah, this is the skill that seems to be unanimously seen as the trait that should be changed to bring EIB back to replace.

The icd of 5 sec ruins this trait completly – lower it to a clean 10% but remove the icd and it would be a great trait imo. Right now it’s worthless.

Xyonon.3987:

The icd of 5 sec ruins this trait completly – lower it to a clean 10% but remove the icd and it would be a great trait imo. Right now it’s worthless.

Or “Heal other allies when you heal yourself based off your Healing Power”. Grants 5% outgoing healing + 1% every 150 HP. This is to buff builds for people using Healing Power.

Also if it doesn’t get ICD it has to be made sure it only procs from things you apply. Not for example that some1 else heals you for 5k and you share that.

coglin.1867:

Yeah, this is the skill that seems to be unanimously seen as the trait that should be changed to bring EIB back to replace.

Why would anyone ever take Elixir Infused Bombs over Bunker Down?

If they would replace it, they should offer something new, not bring back an old trait that has already been replaced with something better.

I would take Elixir Infused Bombs over Bunker Down if I were wearing Full Cleric’s Armor and accessories. If I’m not wearing that, I’m definitely not seeing how bunker down is really helpful when compared to the older evasive poweder keg. All it does is partially make up for a bomb that used to be there but is not. It doesn’t even do full damage of a bomb.

Phineas Poe.3018:

coglin.1867:

Yeah, this is the skill that seems to be unanimously seen as the trait that should be changed to bring EIB back to replace.

Why would anyone ever take Elixir Infused Bombs over Bunker Down?

If they would replace it, they should offer something new, not bring back an old trait that has already been replaced with something better.

Why? Because I am a am WvW commander who is on the front lines. I can heal in an AoE while doing damage, AoE blinding, crippling and I’m mobilizing the enemy. I found the AoE heal of 1350 to be significantly superior to a single medpack and minor damage of a single mine with a bugged trigger range.

As well, to get the heal you have to be specifically moving forward. You cannot be staffing or backpeddling. Which are both common tactical movements often made. I those cases the medpack itself often becomes totally useless.

That still doesn’t explain why you are against the concept of diversity in this matter.

Why would you take Medical Dispersion Field over Bunker down?

coglin.1867:

Phineas Poe.3018:

coglin.1867:

Yeah, this is the skill that seems to be unanimously seen as the trait that should be changed to bring EIB back to replace.

Why would anyone ever take Elixir Infused Bombs over Bunker Down?

If they would replace it, they should offer something new, not bring back an old trait that has already been replaced with something better.

Why? Because I am a am WvW commander who is on the front lines. I can heal in an AoE while doing damage, AoE blinding, crippling and I’m mobilizing the enemy. I found the AoE heal of 1350 to be significantly superior to a single medpack and minor damage of a single mine with a bugged trigger range.

As well, to get the heal you have to be specifically moving forward. You cannot be staffing or backpeddling. Which are both common tactical movements often made. I those cases the medpack itself often becomes totally useless.

That still doesn’t explain why you are against the concept of diversity in this matter.

Why would you take Medical Dispersion Field over Bunker down?

MDF is for Group support while bunker down is for self support and damage. Easy.

I was asking the poster I quoted specifically, but I appreciate your input. Personally I would take EIB trait back any day for group support over MDF.

coglin.1867:

Yeah, this is the skill that seems to be unanimously seen as the trait that should be changed to bring EIB back to replace.

This. For what feels like the 100th time…
There have already been lots of topic that we want our healing bombs back and that this trait is is pretty dam useless.
I loved my frontline engi and the way he used to work

also something something medkit sux

Why not just make the trait a passive regen of health equal to 5% of your healing power or something? or 8% something so its not awful healing. I also think it should just be a regen aura to allies within 600 or so mabye less. The trait would work perfectly with the 250 healing increase while under regen and give a good alternative too bunker down.

The V.8759:

coglin.1867:

Phineas Poe.3018:

coglin.1867:

Yeah, this is the skill that seems to be unanimously seen as the trait that should be changed to bring EIB back to replace.

Why would anyone ever take Elixir Infused Bombs over Bunker Down?

If they would replace it, they should offer something new, not bring back an old trait that has already been replaced with something better.

Why? Because I am a am WvW commander who is on the front lines. I can heal in an AoE while doing damage, AoE blinding, crippling and I’m mobilizing the enemy. I found the AoE heal of 1350 to be significantly superior to a single medpack and minor damage of a single mine with a bugged trigger range.

As well, to get the heal you have to be specifically moving forward. You cannot be staffing or backpeddling. Which are both common tactical movements often made. I those cases the medpack itself often becomes totally useless.

That still doesn’t explain why you are against the concept of diversity in this matter.

Why would you take Medical Dispersion Field over Bunker down?

MDF is for Group support while bunker down is for self support and damage. Easy.

Actually, MDF is only good for the extra challenge of missing a GM trait.

But in any case, it is true that neither bomb heals or MDF in any form would really contradict with bunker down so the comparison with bunker down is pointless.

How about merging elixir infused bombs into MDF?

This skill isnt even worthy of being a T1 minor trait, it is worse than useless and a GM to boot lol.

It needs a radius of say a blast finisher so 360 rather than its current 240 and the ICD removed. Or to be totally reworked.

the traits’ healing output would be fine, if they remove the internal cd & allow it to proc of backpack regenerator / regeneration / similar passive healing.

Yes, It potentially will cause issues with multiple engis, using that trait, but this could be fixed by simply not allowing medical dispersion field to spread incoming healing from other medical dispersion fields.

A-net, please fix it. I’d love to run a decent group-supporter, but I can’t. The group-healing output from this trait is next to null, even if I manage to proc it off elixir H as often as possible…

If Elementalist gets “Water Blast” which heals while they attack (To include self healing) then engineer should get back “Elixir Infused Bombs”. If we can’t have that back, then take away Elementalist’s “Water Blast” ability.

paladinecho.3024:

If Elementalist gets “Water Blast” which heals while they attack (To include self healing) then engineer should get back “Elixir Infused Bombs”. If we can’t have that back, then take away Elementalist’s “Water Blast” ability.

That’s not a good argument, because it’s almost comparing apples and oranges, nor are classes supposed to be identical in utility.

To switch to water attunement, an ele locks themselves out of whatever else they were using for 10 seconds, not to mention that the water skills don’t do very much damage. A bomb engineer still does high damage and only suffers a 1s lockout.

It’s fine to compare this to a real healing source like ele water staff, but resorting to hyperbole like that helps no one.

coglin.1867:

Why? Because I am a am WvW commander who is on the front lines. I can heal in an AoE while doing damage, AoE blinding, crippling and I’m mobilizing the enemy. I found the AoE heal of 1350 to be significantly superior to a single medpack and minor damage of a single mine with a bugged trigger range.

The fact that you’re talking about the engineer in a space where they’ve never been meta, especially when it came to manning the front lines, I can’t help but wonder if you really understand just how mediocre your build was.

Elixir Infused Bombs healed for 145 base + 15% coefficient according to GW2Wiki. With enough healing power, perhaps in full Cleric, I can imagine the Bomb Kit healing for over 300 (x5) per blast. On paper that sounds awesome, but I think we have to acknowledge that in large-scale operations like WvW with 20-25 people fighting on each side, 300 health return is a drop in the bucket to what damage you face on the front lines—especially if you’re running baseline vitality that Cleric forces you into. It’s important to be mindful that Healway stopped being viable on guardian literally years ago, and that the only classes that really manage to survive on the frontline do so by stacking their vitality and toughness as much as possible and mitigating damage. Endure Pain. Wall of Reflection. Aegis. Protection. Not healing. They do have some healing, but that’s not their primary means of survival, because the second you overextend, that 300-800 health back per shout, heal, or dodge roll isn’t going to save you. It’s Endure Pain, Wall of Reflection, or aegis.

Engineers have middle-tier health and armor, so you’re already at a disadvantage, and running Cleric in WvW would be placing yourself at significant risk to be blown up, especially if you’re going to do so hinging your entire build around a trait that only scales by 15% of your healing power. Elixir Infused Bombs just gets totally outpaced against quality competition with any remote semblance of organized focus fire. You aren’t keeping anybody alive with your bombs.

coglin.1867:

That still doesn’t explain why you are against the concept of diversity in this matter.

I am not against diversity. I am just against changing things until we have the full picture of what to expect in the expansion with our elite specialization and what expansion content will look like. You are asking for one trait to replace another before we have all the facts, before we even have our elite specialization revealed.

For all we know, a Forge-traited engineer running Medical Dispersion Field may be the best support/bunker class in PvP when Heart of Thorns releases. It may be the very build that allows engineer to be a frontline factor in WvW, which is explicitly your desire.

coglin.1867:

Why would you take Medical Dispersion Field over Bunker down?

If area healing is of greater concern than personal healing, and if Inventions was a wise trait line decision for the given content, I would take Medical Dispersion Field over Bunker Down.

We already have one of the best healing skills in the game, which AoE heals for 6K every 15 seconds when picked up just in a Celestial amulet if you play your cards right with the Inventions traits. I don’t think you’re properly considering the potential for a trait like MDF, and that there may be future content down the road that taps into a lot of things we’re already very good at doing.

What you’re asking for, instead, is bringing back a mediocre trait that has never been meta in anything, especially in WvW, in a state of the game where damage has never been higher. Power creep is all over Heart of Thorns, and you want to bring back a trait that healed for less than a single tick of burning does currently as a Celestial engineer with 25 might.

I don’t run celestial. People have been trying to argue the case against healing bombs, but unless you ran full cleric’s with it, you are missing the picture. Celestial seems like something you run when you are unsure as to what you want to be at the end of your game. Once you get skilled enough you then specialize in healing, crit, or condi according to which you are talented at using. Or you just stay there because you are not good enough to do any specific thing well, but are decent when you have those stats.

The healing bombs were designed in such a way that Cleric’s gear was epic to wear with it. I worked hard to get my full Cleric’s gear and now they change things up to the point where my entire ascended set has become worthless because of no healing bombs.

I really think that some of you are not support based and thats fine. Don’t talk down on the people who are trying to ask for more things to improve their support based builds. You can have your blends, its just theres alot of build selling going on vs giving people a more diverse option to do things.

Also comparing apples to oranges? An entire set of armor and ascended accessories was WASTED on cleric’s gear because they decided to get rid of healing bombs. Forget the other stuff, I want a replacement set of gear if they are going to be going to these kind of extremes with movesets. Next thing you know they will bump the bomb range back down to 120 or even 90. Its more than healing bombs, but its stability all around. If the game keeps changing certain things around, your equipment goes from being the best at endgame to absolute trash like my Cleric’s set. I’m keeping hold to it because maybe someone might turn healing bombs and the other trait back on. Every class loses when they make these kind of changes that completely cause players to have to resort to getting an entire new wardrobe because of these drastic changes. I wonder what will be next? Maybe they will nerf celestial engineer? Lets roll the dice to see what armor I will need to replace because of the new changes.

Engineers healing is simply split to thin over to many abilities and traits. The way I see it, we should have 3 ways to heal allies:

• Burst heal with healing turret.
• Strong sustain heal with med-kit (requires the engineer to give up using other abilities while healing, but rewards high outgoing healing capabilities)
• Weak sustain heal with bunker down (Don’t require the engineer to sacrifice damage or self-sustain so it grants les outgoing healing than med-kit)

This three methodes covers engineers theme quite well (kits, turrets, and medpacks), thus making engineer healing unique to other classes methodes of healing.

They should replace Soothing Detonation and Medical Dispersion Field with traits that don’t fill one of the roles above. I can imagne Soothing Detonation getting replaced with “10% of healing power is converted to power, double the effect while under the effect of regeneration”.

Phineas Poe.3018:

coglin.1867:

Why? Because I am a am WvW commander who is on the front lines. I can heal in an AoE while doing damage, AoE blinding, crippling and I’m mobilizing the enemy. I found the AoE heal of 1350 to be significantly superior to a single medpack and minor damage of a single mine with a bugged trigger range.

The fact that you’re talking about the engineer in a space where they’ve never been meta, especially when it came to manning the front lines, I can’t help but wonder if you really understand just how mediocre your build was.

Elixir Infused Bombs healed for 145 base + 15% coefficient according to GW2Wiki. With enough healing power, perhaps in full Cleric, I can imagine the Bomb Kit healing for over 300 (x5) per blast. On paper that sounds awesome, but I think we have to acknowledge that in large-scale operations like WvW with 20-25 people fighting on each side, 300 health return is a drop in the bucket to what damage you face on the front lines—especially if you’re running baseline vitality that Cleric forces you into. It’s important to be mindful that Healway stopped being viable on guardian literally years ago, and that the only classes that really manage to survive on the frontline do so by stacking their vitality and toughness as much as possible and mitigating damage. Endure Pain. Wall of Reflection. Aegis. Protection. Not healing. They do have some healing, but that’s not their primary means of survival, because the second you overextend, that 300-800 health back per shout, heal, or dodge roll isn’t going to save you. It’s Endure Pain, Wall of Reflection, or aegis.

Engineers have middle-tier health and armor, so you’re already at a disadvantage, and running Cleric in WvW would be placing yourself at significant risk to be blown up, especially if you’re going to do so hinging your entire build around a trait that only scales by 15% of your healing power. Elixir Infused Bombs just gets totally outpaced against quality competition with any remote semblance of organized focus fire. You aren’t keeping anybody alive with your bombs.

coglin.1867:

That still doesn’t explain why you are against the concept of diversity in this matter.

I am not against diversity. I am just against changing things until we have the full picture of what to expect in the expansion with our elite specialization and what expansion content will look like. You are asking for one trait to replace another before we have all the facts, before we even have our elite specialization revealed.

For all we know, a Forge-traited engineer running Medical Dispersion Field may be the best support/bunker class in PvP when Heart of Thorns releases. It may be the very build that allows engineer to be a frontline factor in WvW, which is explicitly your desire.

coglin.1867:

Why would you take Medical Dispersion Field over Bunker down?

If area healing is of greater concern than personal healing, and if Inventions was a wise trait line decision for the given content, I would take Medical Dispersion Field over Bunker Down.

We already have one of the best healing skills in the game, which AoE heals for 6K every 15 seconds when picked up just in a Celestial amulet if you play your cards right with the Inventions traits. I don’t think you’re properly considering the potential for a trait like MDF, and that there may be future content down the road that taps into a lot of things we’re already very good at doing.

What you’re asking for, instead, is bringing back a mediocre trait that has never been meta in anything, especially in WvW, in a state of the game where damage has never been higher. Power creep is all over Heart of Thorns, and you want to bring back a trait that healed for less than a single tick of burning does currently as a Celestial engineer with 25 might.

How many hours do you have in WvW?

How many hours have you spent as a map Pin?

How many hours have you spent as a guild Pin with 40 to 60 guildies coordinated on the same map?

What build am I running that you are declaring as bad that you think I am running?

Based on your statements here, it doesn’t appear to me that you are very aware of what your speaking about when it comes to WvW. Your post displays a large amount of assumptions that are incorrect.

He’s only giving (accurate) numbers on what Elixir Infused Bombs actually did. Not what you felt like it did, not how much you liked what it did, but what it actually did. It was a mediocre trait. That doesn’t mean you’re a mediocre player or you aren’t good at what you do.

Adamantium.3682:

He’s only giving (accurate) numbers on what Elixir Infused Bombs actually did. Not what you felt like it did, not how much you liked what it did, but what it actually did. It was a mediocre trait. That doesn’t mean you’re a mediocre player or you aren’t good at what you do.

Deeming someone’s build as “a bad build” while incorrectly assuming what traits and gear they are running, while attempting to suggest to know what is or is not meta on a specific server, isn’t moving the conversation forward. Nor did I dispute the numbers of EIB.

paladinecho.3024:

I don’t run celestial. People have been trying to argue the case against healing bombs, but unless you ran full cleric’s with it, you are missing the picture. Celestial seems like something you run when you are unsure as to what you want to be at the end of your game. Once you get skilled enough you then specialize in healing, crit, or condi according to which you are talented at using. Or you just stay there because you are not good enough to do any specific thing well, but are decent when you have those stats.

What…?

Celestial rifle was the meta build for engineers in PvP and one of our best WvW roaming builds for over a year. And now that bombs are actually viable in Conquest again, I imagine Celestial making a comeback (somewhat) thanks to the regular burning access of the Bomb Kit with Sharpshooter and Geomancy adding good bleed pressure. And because bombs don’t really benefit all that much from Explosives, you can opt for Incendiary Powder safely.

I think Soldier rifle will still end up being our meta build in PvP, and I think Berserker Grenadier will remain our best option in zergs in WvW, but I think Celestial has its place for the engineer profession and it has nothing to do with having a mid-life crisis or being unskilled and everything to do with just how the coefficients work out.

The Bomb Kit is a melee-oriented kit, meaning you need to build a little more sustain than you would with the Grenade Kit. It also scales well with conditions given it has confusion and burning, and it has the strongest power coefficient auto attack of all our weapons and kits. It’s not really rocket science to figure out that Celestial works very, very well with it—about as well as the Grenade Kit did with Incendiary Powder pre-patch.

paladinecho.3024:

The healing bombs were designed in such a way that Cleric’s gear was epic to wear with it. I worked hard to get my full Cleric’s gear and now they change things up to the point where my entire ascended set has become worthless because of no healing bombs.

I really think that some of you are not support based and thats fine. Don’t talk down on the people who are trying to ask for more things to improve their support based builds. You can have your blends, its just theres alot of build selling going on vs giving people a more diverse option to do things.

Just for some perspective, I wrote up this build in 2012. It was written at a time when warriors were the primary damage dealers in dungeons and guardians ran Altruistic Healing “anchor” builds. No one knew how to melee Lupicus or any fractal bosses without tons of boon support and healing. When support builds are called for I not only full-heartedly endorse them, I write guides to help people clear content they otherwise can’t.

You can imagine when the expansion comes out and we have fresh new “challenging” content that things will swing back the other way, and I’ll be here touting how good support builds are. But right now that isn’t the case, and when the meta originally shifted to full Berserker, when dungeons were overhauled to be more rewarding, and everyone ran dungeons enough to focus on speed clears, not just clearing it, I too shifted.

I think it’s important that players are malleable and roll with the punches, and don’t just prop up and support certain builds just for fun, and ask them to be brought back despite how weak they were just because it’s what you’re used to. So I don’t want you to see this post as me talking down to you for wanting to run a support build.

No one, as far as I have seen, has talked down on anyone, anyway. I just think it’s important that people who loved Elixir Infused Bombs be honest with themselves and acknowledge that the trait, however fun to use, was not a very good trait and got replaced by Bunker Down for a reason.

paladinecho.3024:

Also comparing apples to oranges? An entire set of armor and ascended accessories was WASTED on cleric’s gear because they decided to get rid of healing bombs. Forget the other stuff, I want a replacement set of gear if they are going to be going to these kind of extremes with movesets. Next thing you know they will bump the bomb range back down to 120 or even 90. Its more than healing bombs, but its stability all around. If the game keeps changing certain things around, your equipment goes from being the best at endgame to absolute trash like my Cleric’s set. I’m keeping hold to it because maybe someone might turn healing bombs and the other trait back on. Every class loses when they make these kind of changes that completely cause players to have to resort to getting an entire new wardrobe because of these drastic changes. I wonder what will be next? Maybe they will nerf celestial engineer? Lets roll the dice to see what armor I will need to replace because of the new changes.

If ArenaNet balanced the game around player investments, the meta would never change and the game would stagnate. It’s very healthy and important for a game to diversify things and change up the meta. MOBAs do this by introducing new heroes, and MMOs do this through balance changes introducing new traits, merging old ones, and adjusting skills.

It’s also important to note that ArenaNet has implemented a system to where you can change the stats of your ascended gear quite cheaply, and that I have already done this for a full set of armor to use on my engineer in addition to my Berserker set.

coglin.1867:

How many hours do you have in WvW?

How many hours have you spent as a map Pin?

How many hours have you spent as a guild Pin with 40 to 60 guildies coordinated on the same map?

What build am I running that you are declaring as bad that you think I am running?

Based on your statements here, it doesn’t appear to me that you are very aware of what your speaking about when it comes to WvW. Your post displays a large amount of assumptions that are incorrect.

You ask a lot of questions I can’t really answer because the statistics aren’t there to reference.

I can tell you I have 5,909 hours played in Guild Wars 2, and the majority of my WvW playtime occurred before they implemented WvW ranks. I cannot safely tell you how many hours I spent there, and I cannot accurately tell you how much time I’ve actually spent it raiding. I spent most of my time in WvW actually roaming, as that is really where engineer historically has shined. And because 3,189 hours of my play time has been on my engineer, you can imagine that when I was in WvW on my engineer I did roaming over zerging.

I can tell you, however, that I have a little over 15,000 kills on my account in WvW, and that I help run a highly active, 500-member PvX guild that, when we were on Sanctum of Rall, would regularly roll 40+ players strong on reset nights during the mid-point of this game’s life. I do think it’s important to mention that I have every class to level 80, and in these instances, consistent with a lot of what I’ve already said in this post and in previous ones, I commonly ran on my guardian, warrior, or necromancer with my guild.

I do not consider myself a “hardcore” WvW player, but there are several hardcore GvG players in our guild that more than often keep me in the loop of what’s going on in WvW even though I spend the majority of my time in PvP and fractals these days. I consider myself a definitive PvX player, to where I get my fill of everything—but never to the point where I treat it like a job. That said, I think I have enough wealth of experience in pretty much everything in this game to be allowed to comment on anything, from setting Tequatl records to soloing towers in WvW, and I can safely say that Elixir Infused Bombs is a bad trait and that no serious GvG guild would ever be caught dead having one on their 15-man team let alone commanding it.

I’m just seeing how I can possibly get EIB back. The trait was fun and I think Bunker Down should be moved to the explosives line in the place of one of the other ones that are just not effective. I don’t completely agree that it is a very useful skill yet, but I will give it another test just to see if it has any use. I did have a bit of fun with bunker down before when testing, but I still want EIB. It would be nice to have them both.

On the issue of change, its great to see change, but it is also nice to have some things stay the same. I’m not sure this one was very well thought out before they changed it. I have yet to see someone show a reason as to why cleric’s armor is good for an engi. When you see someone come up with a decent heal build out of the trash they have right now for heals, let me know.

I’m not here to rip into celestial users, its just not everyone is going to be the same build or wants to follow the “meta”. Meta is great in its place, but I don’t want my engineer to be limited to a Meta box. If the engi is good at heals again, then that could be another type of unexpected frontline healer. Why not try to fight for something like that? Now when it comes down to the engineer regular heals on the other hand, they are very lackluster at the moment. I don’t need to go into too much detail unless its asked for because threads are beginning to pop up left and right about the poor healing of engineer. While turret is good, after it is popped thats all it has. The extra 250 points of healing mean absolutely nothing in combat effectiveness. Go look how much 250 points changes healing and you will see it is only by a few points.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I just think it’s important that people who loved Elixir Infused Bombs be honest with themselves and acknowledge that the trait, however fun to use, was not a very good trait and got replaced by Bunker Down for a reason..

Ah, there is the issue. You are confusing your subjective opinion with that of actual objective fact.

You deem a trait as “not very good” there for everyone who liked it, is wrong by default?

coglin.1867:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I just think it’s important that people who loved Elixir Infused Bombs be honest with themselves and acknowledge that the trait, however fun to use, was not a very good trait and got replaced by Bunker Down for a reason..

Ah, there is the issue. You are confusing your subjective opinion with that of actual objective fact.

You deem a trait as “not very good” there for everyone who liked it, is wrong by default?

Coglin, when you find a guild that actually has an engineer command their GvG team, you get back to me.

Until then, you’re not really responding to anything I’m saying and just deflecting.

Phineas Poe.3018:

coglin.1867:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I just think it’s important that people who loved Elixir Infused Bombs be honest with themselves and acknowledge that the trait, however fun to use, was not a very good trait and got replaced by Bunker Down for a reason..

Ah, there is the issue. You are confusing your subjective opinion with that of actual objective fact.

You deem a trait as “not very good” there for everyone who liked it, is wrong by default?

Coglin, when you find a guild that actually has an engineer command their GvG team, you get back to me.

Until then, you’re not really responding to anything I’m saying and just deflecting.

What do we click in the UI to access this GvG game mode again?

Let’s see here. We were talking about why anyone would take heal bombs over bunker down. Talk about gvgs or even engis not being meta in wvw zerging is irrelevant— even heal bombs being crap is irrelevant. Point is, would it be better than what we have now in the specified situation.

If heal bombs is a less bad choice than bunker down then Coglin’s rebuttal has merit.

Things don’t have to meta to exist, as long as they have a use somewhere in the game and there are good alternatives.

Furthermore, healing bombs did about 190 with 0 invested in heal power. This is diffrent now because inventions do not give 300 healing powers but readjustments are possible. Some other traits like selfless dwring really suck due to loss of trait stats so it is something to look at as a whole.

paladinecho.3024:

I’m just seeing how I can possibly get EIB back. The trait was fun and I think Bunker Down should be moved to the explosives line in the place of one of the other ones that are just not effective. I don’t completely agree that it is a very useful skill yet, but I will give it another test just to see if it has any use. I did have a bit of fun with bunker down before when testing, but I still want EIB. It would be nice to have them both.

For the record, I don’t really think Medical Dispersion Field is all that useful either. I am just siding myself in the “wait and see” camp regarding what’s to come in the expansion. If the rumors are true that we’ll be killing Mordremoth in a 10- or 15-man raid, it may have its place there.

If even at that point Medical Dispersion Field isn’t used, then it will need to be buffed, changed, or replaced. But I don’t think Elixir Infused Bombs is really the trait to replace it in any case.

paladinecho.3024:

On the issue of change, its great to see change, but it is also nice to have some things stay the same. I’m not sure this one was very well thought out before they changed it. I have yet to see someone show a reason as to why cleric’s armor is good for an engi. When you see someone come up with a decent heal build out of the trash they have right now for heals, let me know.

Dude, almost no one runs Cleric in WvW, and especially not in PvE. You may see the occasional shout heal warrior or guardian, or cleric staff ele in WvW, but that’s really the extent of it, and none of those classes are particularly ideal.

paladinecho.3024:

I’m not here to rip into celestial users, its just not everyone is going to be the same build or wants to follow the “meta”. Meta is great in its place, but I don’t want my engineer to be limited to a Meta box. If the engi is good at heals again, then that could be another type of unexpected frontline healer. Why not try to fight for something like that? Now when it comes down to the engineer regular heals on the other hand, they are very lackluster at the moment. I don’t need to go into too much detail unless its asked for because threads are beginning to pop up left and right about the poor healing of engineer. While turret is good, after it is popped thats all it has. The extra 250 points of healing mean absolutely nothing in combat effectiveness. Go look how much 250 points changes healing and you will see it is only by a few points.

I am aware of the fact that not everyone cares about what’s “meta” and just what’s “viable,” which is why I made a point to show that I curated the FT/EG build long after it was rendered useless with the Kit Refinement nerf because that’s how they wanted to play their engineer in open world content, dungeons, and fractals.

But when ArenaNet removed Elixir Infused Bombs, they made it pretty clear they either weren’t happy with what it did or it didn’t fit with their long-term vision of the Bomb Kit any longer. Kit Refinement was nerfed in 2012, nerfed again in 2013, and then never regained its stature. It’s just not ArenaNet’s way to replace traits after they’re taken out. The only exception for engineers is Juggernaut, which still isn’t enough to make the Flamethrower worth using outside of Incendiary Ammo, Napalm, and Flame Blast.

And 250 healing power adjusts the Healing Turret heal by 250 points. It has a 50% coefficient, and it activates twice. With a Celestial amulet in PvP it jumps from 2,800 to 2,925. It may not seem like a lot in the grand scheme, but it does help.

The main problem of this traid is, that it is triggered by the vampire aura from the necro, spreading a healing of 6 …. 8 (!!!) heal to allies. making it completely useless since the vampire aura is keeping it on cd ^^

Phineas Poe.3018:

But when ArenaNet removed the trait, they made it pretty clear they either weren’t happy with what it did or it didn’t fit with their long-term vision of the Bomb Kit any longer.
.

There were multiple traits thay were removed, that have recently been made baseline or brought back, merged into other traits. Such as the Bomb radius increase. All of this happened through forums discussion. So we know from experience, that discussion and feedback can bring these changes. You do not have to agree, but trying to shout down and berate others for discussing it isn’t isn’t going to assist in your cause.

Well the say I see it is bunker down is still better healing all around and dps and stealth detector, but the current version of elixer infused bombs would force you into bomb kit. I think it should just be renamed elixer infused explosives and cause all explosion blast type skills too heal. In my opinion it should replace that crappy healsplosion trait currently, and if I remember the base heal was around the same as a buffed up backpack regen around 200 or so. The idea for the actual trait being discussed though is that I still think it should be a pulsing aoe regen for a % of your healing power this way you can choose a larger sustain with bunker down or a more constant group support and self healing through Medical dispersion.

Frightlight.3796:

Well the say I see it is bunker down is still better healing all around and dps and stealth detector, but the current version of elixer infused bombs would force you into bomb kit. I think it should just be renamed elixer infused explosives and cause all explosion blast type skills too heal.

Then it will just be used with grenades for safer range and triple the proc effectiveness, like every other explosion trait.

Engi was never meta in WvW. Healing bombs was the only way we could somewhat justify ourselves being in the frontlines. With full clerics food and stacks you heal about 500 a tick while doing reasonable damage and utility. That with elixir gun heal and condi clear made for some solid frontline support especially in sustained combat. The best thing was that your healing went with the zerg instead of being stationary like a waterfield.
The main reason people like EIB isn’t because it was super, but because it made us special in a way. It was one of the most build defining GM traits we used to have and it made our bombs unique. Kinda funny they removed it.

coglin.1867:

There were multiple traits thay were removed, that have recently been made baseline or brought back, merged into other traits. Such as the Bomb radius increase. All of this happened through forums discussion. So we know from experience, that discussion and feedback can bring these changes.

Merging traits or making them baseline isn’t the same as outright removing/replacing a trait and later bringing it back. I know how Forceful Explosives can feel like it had that kind of treatment, but it was supposed to be made baseline on June 23. It was bugged and unintentionally left at 180 radius despite the animations being 240. Rifled Barrels, too, was bugged on June 23 and was meant to be made baseline as well and ended up being patch fixed in later. Something being broken and “disappearing” due to a bug is not the same as ArenaNet outright removing something intentionally and bringing it back later.

I brought up Juggernaut as an example of them doing it once for us, but in reality Juggernaut was never actually removed: they just took the stability away and brought it back later. They changed the trait. They never removed it, and what we have now is really just a half-and-half of its first two renditions, both as a stability access point and its passive might stacking while wielding the Flamethrower.

I cannot think of a single trait they have outright removed from the game in its entirety—both in name and function—that has been brought back at a later point. If there is one, please list it. But ArenaNet historically doesn’t often go back on their decisions, especially when the trait has functionally been replaced.

Conncept.7638:

Frightlight.3796:

Well the say I see it is bunker down is still better healing all around and dps and stealth detector, but the current version of elixer infused bombs would force you into bomb kit. I think it should just be renamed elixer infused explosives and cause all explosion blast type skills too heal.

Then it will just be used with grenades for safer range and triple the proc effectiveness, like every other explosion trait.

I am sure there would be a way to keep it from proccing more than once an attack but and making it only heal in the explosion area meaning you would also have to target on top of yourself

Phineas Poe.3018:

Merging traits or making them baseline isn’t the same as outright removing/replacing a trait and later bringing it back.

I guess you decided to stop reading my post and jump straight to knee jerk reactions some time ago, but I specifically ask you about traits that were removed and just reintroduced by being brought back entirely or add to other traits since they were removed?

It occurred to traits in more then one profession.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I know how Forceful Explosives can feel like it had that kind of treatment, but it was supposed to be made baseline on June 23. It was bugged and unintentionally left at 180 radius despite the animations being 240.

I assume if your making that claim, you have a link to evidence? Mind linking it

Are you also suggesting the other traits they removed that they said would be baseline are simply not in because they are bugged as well?

Phineas Poe.3018:

Rifled Barrels, too, was bugged on June 23 and was meant to be made baseline as well and ended up being patch fixed in later. Something being broken and “disappearing” due to a bug is not the same as ArenaNet outright removing something intentionally and bringing it back later.

Interesting claim. Have a link to anything specifically proving it was a bug, and not based on player feedback? Link please.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I cannot think of a single trait they have outright removed from the game in its entirety—both in name and function—that has been brought back at a later point. If there is one, please list it. But ArenaNet historically doesn’t often go back on their decisions, especially when the trait has functionally been replaced.

Interesting. You boasted how you have one of every profession (as if that is some accomplishment in a 3 yr old game) and suddenly you cannot recall a trait this occurred too? hmm, apparently not as knowledgeable as you imply.

coglin.1867:

I guess you decided to stop reading my post and jump straight to knee jerk reactions some time ago, but I specifically ask you about traits that were removed and just reintroduced by being brought back entirely or add to other traits since they were removed?

It occurred to traits in more then one profession.

Such as…?

coglin.1867:

Interesting claim. Have a link to anything specifically proving it was a bug, and not based on player feedback? Link please.

From the very first core trait change preview they said that Hair Trigger, Rifled Barrels, and Forceful Explosives would be merged to baseline.

From Dulfy: “Rifled Barrels and Coated Bullets from Firearms have been made baseline” and “Forceful Explosives trait from Explosives has been made baseline.”

That’s from April 24 during the core trait overhaul preview. When our traits were a PowerPoint presentation with no in-game tool tips. Not sure what’s up with Coated Bullets, though. Either they reversed that decision or it’s still bugged.

Phineas Poe.3018:

From the very first core trait change preview they said that Hair Trigger, Rifled Barrels, and Forceful Explosives would be merged to baseline.

From Dulfy: “Rifled Barrels and Coated Bullets from Firearms have been made baseline” and “Forceful Explosives trait from Explosives has been made baseline.”

That’s from April 24 during the core trait overhaul preview. When our traits were a PowerPoint presentation with no in-game tool tips. Not sure what’s up with Coated Bullets, though. Either they reversed that decision or it’s still bugged.

Yet, that wasn’t added was it.

I asked you to support the claim that they didn’t add it because it was bugged, not offer support to the fact that they didn’t add it. Coated bullets was never added either yet you offer two options. Either it is bugged, which you have no evidence to suggest that as a reasoning for it, forceful explosives, or rifle barrels (which also should have changed elixir gun and pistol range).

It seems to me, you are basing your entire argument on unfounded presumption, which is not the wisest way to go about making an argument if you desire it to be taken seriously.

so much banter so little discussion about the trait at hand come on people.

coglin.1867:

Phineas Poe.3018:

From the very first core trait change preview they said that Hair Trigger, Rifled Barrels, and Forceful Explosives would be merged to baseline.

From Dulfy: “Rifled Barrels and Coated Bullets from Firearms have been made baseline” and “Forceful Explosives trait from Explosives has been made baseline.”

That’s from April 24 during the core trait overhaul preview. When our traits were a PowerPoint presentation with no in-game tool tips. Not sure what’s up with Coated Bullets, though. Either they reversed that decision or it’s still bugged.

Yet, that wasn’t added was it.

I asked you to support the claim that they didn’t add it because it was bugged, not offer support to the fact that they didn’t add it. Coated bullets was never added either yet you offer two options. Either it is bugged, which you have no evidence to suggest that as a reasoning for it, forceful explosives, or rifle barrels (which also should have changed elixir gun and pistol range).

It seems to me, you are basing your entire argument on unfounded presumption, which is not the wisest way to go about making an argument if you desire it to be taken seriously.

I seriously can’t be bothered to talk to you anymore.

You insist on arguing with me without actually offering any countering evidence. You just prod at everything everyone else has to say without actually contributing anything to the conversation. Questions people ask you are never answered, and you dodge any real substance to what people have to say by picking the low hanging fruit of every post.

You do this in literally every single thread on this subforum, and I just can’t be bothered to entertain it anymore.

Take care.

Frightlight.3796:

so much banter so little discussion about the trait at hand come on people.

I think it all got very, very sidetracked away from the original point of this thread. I apologize.

What I was trying to establish is that while I agree Medical Dispersion Field is not exactly a useful trait, it should be judged when we have seen the entirety of Heart of Thorns content. And if it were to be replaced, I think it should be with something other than Elixir Infused Bombs.

Phineas Poe.3018:

coglin.1867:

Phineas Poe.3018:

From the very first core trait change preview they said that Hair Trigger, Rifled Barrels, and Forceful Explosives would be merged to baseline.

From Dulfy: “Rifled Barrels and Coated Bullets from Firearms have been made baseline” and “Forceful Explosives trait from Explosives has been made baseline.”

That’s from April 24 during the core trait overhaul preview. When our traits were a PowerPoint presentation with no in-game tool tips. Not sure what’s up with Coated Bullets, though. Either they reversed that decision or it’s still bugged.

Yet, that wasn’t added was it.

I asked you to support the claim that they didn’t add it because it was bugged, not offer support to the fact that they didn’t add it. Coated bullets was never added either yet you offer two options. Either it is bugged, which you have no evidence to suggest that as a reasoning for it, forceful explosives, or rifle barrels (which also should have changed elixir gun and pistol range).

It seems to me, you are basing your entire argument on unfounded presumption, which is not the wisest way to go about making an argument if you desire it to be taken seriously.

I seriously can’t be bothered to talk to you anymore.

You insist on arguing with me without actually offering any countering evidence. You just prod at everything everyone else has to say without actually contributing anything to the conversation. Questions people ask you are never answered, and you dodge any real substance to what people have to say by picking the low hanging fruit of every post.

You do this in literally every single thread on this subforum, and I just can’t be bothered to entertain it anymore.

Take care.

That is an odd outlook. I would think asking for facts instead of assumption, or for you to offer proof of your examples and claims, would strike you as a good argument point.

I do notice you have chosen to avoid answering many of the question , yet your rebuttal to those questions is to suggest others didn’t answer something asked, interesting tactic.

So are you going to provide proof to your claim that those listed trait aspects were not added because of a bugs or not?

Phineas Poe.3018:

What I was trying to establish is that while I agree Medical Dispersion Field is not exactly a useful trait, it should be judged when we have seen the entirety of Heart of Thorns content. And if it were to be replaced, I think it should be with something other than Elixir Infused Bombs.

It is reasonable to judge what we have with Medical dispersion Field, particularly given that there is no evidence to that it will change.

As they specifically stated they were changing traits, in preparation to have them updated to where they wanted them, before HoTs release, what evidence are you using to suggest we should assume there will be a trait change beyond the added trait line for the Elite Specialization?

If they can’t fix that trait I would be sinister and say that I hope they leave all these poor performing healing traits in there so people can have their medical dispersion field. Maybe there isn’t anything wrong with the traits at all, but all of it is the fault of the players? Think about it, maybe we are to depend on ANET to give out new builds and changes without complaint like an obedient servant. Every time they change something we are suppose to change with it and have nothing to say about it. Therefore the medical dispersion field isn’t the problem, it is you. Think from that perspective.

paladinecho.3024:

Maybe there isn’t anything wrong with the traits at all, but all of it is the fault of the players? Think about it, maybe we are to depend on ANET to give out new builds and changes without complaint like an obedient servant.

This simply isn’t how the meta works anywhere.

The dungeon meta, for example, is Berserker-everything with two elementalists, a mesmer/guardian, a thief, and a warrior because that is the most optimal method to completing content. There’s just no need for support builds, even in Arah, Aetherpath, and Fractals of the Mists.

It is up to ArenaNet whether or not they want things to remain the same, but they have said many times beforehand that their intent behind Guild Wars 2’s endgame wasn’t eliminating roles but eliminating profession dependencies (e.g., Monks in Guild Wars 1), and that we should expect more support-styled roles in the expansion; if most classes in the game can provide support roles, then there’s no profession dependency while still retaining role differentiation. Even in the Berserker meta we have this, just on a very, very marginal scale with thieves blasting stealth, mesmers/guardians walling projectiles, and warriors stacking might and banners.

I think the problem is that there isn’t currently content in the game that demands full-blown support/healing builds from players. If such content comes with the expansion, Medical Dispersion Field will fulfill that role.

This trait has to be micromanaged and therein lies the issue. Regardless of the importance of healing builds in the current meta, we shouldn’t have to babysit a trait. Just make it “Outgoing healing to allies is increased by 7%” and be done. That way you can focus on area support healing or self healing with bunker down.

Thiefz.3695:

This trait has to be micromanaged and therein lies the issue. Regardless of the importance of healing builds in the current meta, we shouldn’t have to babysit a trait. Just make it “Outgoing healing to allies is increased by 7%” and be done. That way you can focus on area support healing or self healing with bunker down.

Yeah, I think the ICD should be removed at the very least.