Guild Wars 2

Right, so I’ve actually put a LOT of thought and effort into making a Condition Class, and after finding my Engi was strong with his Conditions (with the Condi Damage at 1,200) and my previous Builds weren’t great at sticking to a specific Condition, I looked to Confusion, and… I can get a stack of 15-20 for about 7 seconds every 15 seconds with small stacks of 2-5 in between the end of the 15-20 Stacks and the end of its cool down.

I’ve found, weirdly, the Damage for 5 stacks is higher than the damage of 5 stacks on a Mesmer…

I’m questioning whether it’s worth going full Mesmer for the famous stereotypical Confusion Build which is capable of stacking about 20 for about 10 seconds but has less damage and longer cool downs (to get the full 20 stack back on the enemy(s)) than having the Engi slap on a pretty instant 15-20 stack of confusion for 7-10 seconds every 15 seconds… And considering Mesmer is very good at diverting damage to the clones and absorbing damage and literally taking no damage, I’m comparing it with a tanky, high-heal Condition Bunker Engi…

P.S.: my Mesmer is running a Condition/Berserker Build which relates to the Shattering for Confusion stacks, etc etc etc…

I am using the Runes of Perplexity on both classes too, just for your information.

And yes, I do main Engi, so I tend to play better as an Engi than a Mesmer as I’m more experienced with the Class, and because of this, my Engi is my main and is more… ‘Upgraded’ than my mesmer (slightly better gear, enter shared stats for more survivability, Commander Tag, etc.)

My question is, based on all the facts I’ve provided, should I switch to Mesmer in Terms of having a better Confusion Build? I don’t care about Survivability overall as Mesmers are naturally good at surviving with all the invincible skills & clones & stealths, etc.

Thanks!!!

the engi condi build is incredibly strong. if you run perplexity shield + bomb/toolkit you have a lot of confusion stacks plus many other conditions from grenades and pistol.

however the standard pu condi mesmer is much more reliant on confusion. with small amounts of burn and poison the mesmer relies on confusion and bleeds to deal the majority of its damage.

overall i feel the engineer is stronger and also has more mobility which is pretty key in wvwvw so i’d pick engi.

Fore pure condition I would give the edge to Mesmer but overall conditions I think Engineer is stronger. Also engi has access to beter healing and sustain so overall I feel like they are harder to kill if built right. As a Mesmer you can get stomped quick if your fighting someone that knows what there doing.

engineer I think would be better for teams as you get more aoe conditions damage as well as support conditions then a mesmer there is also alot more team synergy with the engineer then a mesmer, if you arnt highly skilled with either class I’d recommend the mesmer if you want to solo roam since it is in most case’s a hell of a lot more forgiving.

when it comes to playing a confusion engineer it’s all about separately stacking confusion then other conditions since alone that confusion deals a kitten ton of damage and your other conditions deal a kitten ton so if you alternate between stacking different sets of conditions between cooldowns you can upkeep a whole lot of damage without giving your opponent a chance to fully clear all your conditions, so you stack confusion and light amount of other conditions they use condition clears then you stack a bunch of other conditions that they most likely won’t be able to clear, and you rinse and repeat, this will out dps your typical condition mesmer but you won’t have handy things like on demand stealth plentiful stun breakers and you condition removal will most likely be sub par.

Thank you all for the feedback!!!

Mesmers mostly stack confusion, bleeding and a bit of torment. Engineers chuck out a far wider range, and with runes of perplexity / bomb kit/ sigils of torment can add confusion and torment to list that already includes burning, bleeding, poison, vulnerability, chill and blind. This maximises the benefit of your +condi damage armor and trinkets and makes it really hard for the opponent to clean all conditions off (particularly cos you can just reapply them in moments). Mesmers oth have better burst damage; both have good (albeit different) utility. Personally think condi damage build engineer out-conditions Mesmer just from range of stuff you apply.

gothmog.7501:

Mesmers mostly stack confusion, bleeding and a bit of torment. Engineers chuck out a far wider range, and with runes of perplexity / bomb kit/ sigils of torment can add confusion and torment to list that already includes burning, bleeding, poison, vulnerability, chill and blind. This maximises the benefit of your +condi damage armor and trinkets and makes it really hard for the opponent to clean all conditions off (particularly cos you can just reapply them in moments). Mesmers oth have better burst damage; both have good (albeit different) utility. Personally think condi damage build engineer out-conditions Mesmer just from range of stuff you apply.

That’s the problem, and that’s why I’m looking more towards to Mesmer (which is also because I prefer the Mesmer Gameplay for my personal preference).

I prefer to focus a specific condition… That isn’t possible for the ones I wanted to stack consistently on my Engineer if I’m honest, and even if I did manage a 15 stack consistently on Confusion or something similar, it wouldn’t feel right for how I’d play and it relating to the Engi

well focusing on just one condition, you have to 100% sure to cover it up with others. So to be fair, you never really are focused on one.

That said, with my perplex rune engineer, I get a ton of confusion without really trying. Just my pistol 3 and prybar wack is fine. I run elixir gun so that keeps me from running bombs for another set. (I refuse to drop elixir s, since I mostly just wvw)

From just condition stand point , I like engineers better. But memser brings other stuff to the table.

I just find memsers are all over the place. Them, thieves and warriors. Rather play something less popular.

Even though I’m mainly an engineer, I’ll put a word in for mesmers in WvW for their group utility. Portals, veils, mass invisibility, null fields, chaos fields, etc. are all really great support. You could be a really useful mesmer in WvW and never target at enemy player. The engineer does not have the tactical utility.

However, you can get most of this utility without gearing up your mesmer very much.

Engineers are better at stacking confusion than Mesmers; especially when using Perplexity runes.

Definitely Engineer. Better access to Confusion in general, and most importantly you don’t have to pretty much commit to just Confusion, meaning cleansing isn’t as auto-win as it can be against Mesmers.

Ok, but let’s be honest here: Engineer is open to Two Main Skills (without counting the Pistol #3 because that’s only 2 stacks and can only really count when there’re two nearby targets and stacks 4 for a short period of time) which can apply (without aid of the runes at the moment) 10 Confusion Stacks for, let’s say, 10 seconds: if you miss one of these stacks, which is more likely than a Mesmer stacking confusion, that’s a big, long-ish recharge to wait to risk it again in a close-ranged smack-one of which, the Concussion Bomb, is very easily avoidable. With the Runes, I’m able to stack up to 12 seconds of that 10 Confusion Stacks, plus the extras from the Runes and the Pistol #3 Skill… Coming to about ~17 which can last 4 seconds before it is taken down to 13 then lasts 3-5 seconds before lasting ~4-6 seconds of the remaining 10 stacks… From firstly applying the Stacks all in one go, I need to wait about 12-15 seconds, depending on the training and runes, etc.

With Mesmer, I’m pretty much able to Channel around the same amount over a long, long range which can’t really be missed, because of the channeling-type attack; I understand the stacks aren’t as high, but I can Trait and Rune the Confusion out to get about 8-11 stacks of, I think, 8-10 seconds of Confusion just on one Shatter Skill. I can then stack even more from a lovely range. I don’t know about you guys, but I definitely don’t feel Engineer is right with Confusion… It’s just weird to play and I feel more comfortable on my Mesmer, probably meaning I can play the Mesmer out better in terms if surviving and stacking, but in all fairness, Engi is more of a survivable class, especially as my Build for it is. Ore Tanky than my Bursty Mesmer. Then again, having Mesmer being Bursty which is complimentary to the Confusion stacking yet can have access to the most Invulnerability, default survivability and (second best?) escape-based skills, I feel more secure about playing Mesmer out to the whole Confusion spec. May seem weird for you full-time Engis hahah, I kinda switched main and back from Engi to (either) Ranger or Mesmer… Just suits me personally. Heck, might even switch to Thief, probably not at the moment though.

I’d write more, but I really need to go sleep now. But:

Archaeopteryx.7409:

With Mesmer, I’m pretty much able to Channel around the same amount over a long, long range which can’t really be missed, because of the channeling-type attack;

It’s actually really hard to land this attack on anyone paying attention. Many people just dodge it, as it has a long windup before anything happens. Other people just move to your side or behind you, and the skill will go on cooldown without anything happening. Shatters are easily dodged as well. Also, if you shatter, you sacrifice clones and/or phantasms, which is also something you need to consider if it’s really worth it and if you can replace them fast.

An engineer can actually pull you and apply 5 stacks instantly with Pry Bar. Also concussion bomb is an AoE and easier to land than a shatter, without drawback. Pistol 3 applies only two stacks (4 with optimal conditions), but hits much more reliable than scepter 3 of Mesmers and also comes with an useful blind on top of that. Last but not least, Engineers also have more and more convenient access to interrupts than Mesmers (which comes into play greatly if you use Perplexity runes). So yeah, for confusion, Engineers are king imo.

And nope, I don’t main Engineer. I main Mesmer and use a condition build since I’ve created her. Of course I also have other equipment sets by now, but I’ve played condi from 1 to long after reaching lvl 80, and I still use a condition build in WvW and sometimes PvE.

That’s the thing. I ran Blackwater for a while, and in the early days I ran Glamour.

It’s really easy to get Confusion up, yes. On stupid targets. Mesmer wins out there.

But the downsides are many:

• Easy to identify attacks visually. Easy to dodge or otherwise block most of the hits.
• Reliance on enemy triggering their own doom, and I don’t mean only Confusion. Have to walk in and out of glamours, have to keep attacking you while you got boons from stealth, etc. Enemies not wanting to kill you or walk into your stuff are virtually indestructible.
• One-trick pony, and this is the biggest downside. Even Blackwater, the more balanced but more 1v1 build, relies on Confusion+Bleeding and it’s boons. Cleansing kills you, fast. Necromancers with boon/debuff control tear you apart.

The biggest issue is that while in pure confusion in ideal situations my Mesmer is better, she’s worse in the important average case, and she falls apart when confusion isn’t an option. My engineer can apply different conditions, and a lot of them. I can still focus on confusion as my main damaging condition (especially with Runes), but I’m not relying entirely on it. I don’t just pray on enemies being too stupid, really.

I put Perplexity runes on my Engineer for WvWvW. No matter how good Mesmers are, you can’t beat the (traited) 1500 range on Grenades. Add the cripple and vulnerability you’ll get from those to Confusion and you’ll just make people tear their hair out.