Guild Wars 2

I’ve played the standard meta rifle celestial engi build, and had quite some succes. But everytime I meet anything condi I die or have to run away. So to get some condi clear I made my own variation of the celestial build. One of the best condi clears an engineer can get is cleansing formula 409, so my build variation is an elixir HGH build.

This build goes really well with the celestial amulet because it is very normal to have 25 might stacks which is ~2.4k power and ~1.4k condi damage I think… The burst with this build is crazy too. Rifle 2 > rifle 5> grenade barrage with 25 might stacks and elixir B up can drop someone from 100 to 0.

With this build you DO lose a block, confusion and pull, but takin everything into account you get superior might stacking, lots of offensive boons, stability, condi clears, lots of defensive boons.

Healing turret is a big loss too, but a 6k heal on 20 sec CD giving defensive boons, might, and 1 condi clear is ALMOST as good :P

So yea, I have been playing it a lot and it is really powerful. Great for everything and often turns the tide of battle with elixir S stomps/rezzes.

I recorded some gameplay to show how this build works and what It can achieve and it turned into a nice little montage here it is:

Build link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlcTp6q1XxELseNCbBBqNI6jEln85DEgkC-T5gIwAAuAAf2fQYZAA

Thanks for reading this wall of text and have a good day!
-Holl

(Ps. Critisism is all good, just have some mercy)

nice

15 symbols

H(i)GH five brother!

This is pretty much my build.

Personal preference for me is 0 in firearms so I can 2 in tools to have speedy kits. I never like using up ’lix B for mobility.

…and I take short fuse over incendiary powder. 1) because I have no hairtrigger or sharpshooter 2) it works out better in 1v2+ situations. I thik IP may be superior in 1v1.

Also I saved up alot for my runes of strength. With that price tag, they’re going nowhere With sigils of strength and battle, 25 stacks is effortless (if a little selfish).

My favourite initiating rotation is Toss S>’lix B>Toss B>overcharge shot>grenade barrage>netshot>poison grenades>jumpshot>blunderbuss.

What I love so much is that the leap finisher produces 8 sec of weakness (as an advocate of the elixir gun) is soooo valuable in a 1v1 duel and PG has the same (20sec) CD as jumpshot.

Great to see another Cele/HGH/Nade

Isn’t this just HGH being played in a meta 2x beyond it? If you want to see better videos of “your” build just look up ostricheggs vods almost a year ago.

bethekey.8314:

Isn’t this just HGH being played in a meta 2x beyond it? If you want to see better videos of “your” build just look up ostricheggs vods almost a year ago.

HGH fell off because of SD teef and power creep RIP ): But the new Celestial Amulet and the buffs to Elixir B/S makes HGH a better build than it was over a year ago where you had to choose between Rabid or Berserker, or to a lesser extent Carrion, and also deal with the super bad RNG buffs of elixirs! Still not an optimal build though!

Pros: Damage!
Cons: If someone looks at you, u ded!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573

HGH fell off because of SD teef and power creep RIP ): But the new Celestial Amulet and the buffs to Elixir B/S makes HGH a better build than it was over a year ago where you had to choose between Rabid or Berserker, or to a lesser extent Carrion, and also deal with the super bad RNG buffs of elixirs! Still not an optimal build though!

Pros: Damage!
Cons: If someone looks at you, u ded!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

No offense vee, but I’ve been around as long or longer than you at higher ranks in pvp and I know what metas have passed lol. Don’t need a refresher! That’s part of the reason I said what I said to the original post. I also said what I said because OP refers to it being used in “higher tier” pvp, despite its use and then disuse in pvp over a year ago.

bethekey.8314:

Isn’t this just HGH being played in a meta 2x beyond it? If you want to see better videos of “your” build just look up ostricheggs vods almost a year ago.

I thought the dude only ever had vids for power rifle HGH or P/P condi with EP+Zerk or IP+Rabid respectively.

I get the feeling Holtz has done the same as me. I started playing celestial rifle 6/4/4 but wasn’t 100% happy with the play style and after some tweeking here and some tweeking there, I was 1 trait away from HGH. A few games later and yeah… I’ve been using this build in PvP for about the last 3 months.

(here’s my version)

PvP – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlcTp6q1XxELseNSaBNq0I6mclq85GEgnC-TJRGwAAeAAJuAAg2fYZZAA

Peutrifectus.4830:

bethekey.8314:

Isn’t this just HGH being played in a meta 2x beyond it? If you want to see better videos of “your” build just look up ostricheggs vods almost a year ago.

Pretty sure the dude only ever had vids for power rifle HGH or P/P condi with explosive powder or IP+sigil of geomancy respectively.

I get the feeling Holtz has done the same as me. I started playing celestial rifle 6/4/4 but wasn’t 100% happy with the play style and after some tweeking here and some tweeking there, I was 1 trait away from HGH. A few games later and yeah… I’ve been using this build in PvP for about the last 3 months.

(here’s my version)

PvP – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlcTp6q1XxELseNSaBNq0I6mclq85GEgnC-TJRGwAAeAAJuAAg2fYZZAA

no IP? Does it make sense to go for cele without IP?

It’s a personal preference. I fair better in 1v2’s because I can hit (5 foes) with poison, shrapnel and feeze grenades faster where as IP only hits one target for around 50% up time.

That’s not to say IP is bad though. Just what I like.

But why do you use cele ? Without burning it make no sense. You could use knight for example

In my opinion , without toolkit a pistol shield build based, with hgh is much better. I’d trade nades for toolkit taking rifled barrels for having more range, otherwise i ’d go pistol shield condi with hgh . With your build you have only elixir S as block and it has a long cd .

Peutrifectus.4830:

…and I take short fuse over incendiary powder. 1) because I have no hairtrigger or sharpshooter 2) it works out better in 1v2+ situations. I thik IP may be superior in 1v1.

…yes! a self quote from 2 posts ago!

It make ’s sense to me. “1)” improves poison up time and bleed intensity for condi dmg and since I have hybrid gear (Cele) the extra burst complements all that power (2.7k with might).

Lupanic.6502:

Without burning it make no sense

It’s one condition. Condi removal is a thing. I’ve just chosen to focus on rapid reapplication of the condis I have.

Pistol/rifle is a tough choice, I like rifle so I can range onto a point (decap/retreat/repeat) rather than try and fight on it. I leave that to ele/gurds. Sound reasoning though.

Peutrifectus.4830:

H(i)GH five brother!

This is pretty much my build.

Personal preference for me is 0 in firearms so I can 2 in tools to have speedy kits. I never like using up ’lix B for mobility.

…and I take short fuse over incendiary powder. 1) because I have no hairtrigger or sharpshooter 2) it works out better in 1v2+ situations. I thik IP may be superior in 1v1.

Also I saved up alot for my runes of strength. With that price tag, they’re going nowhere With sigils of strength and battle, 25 stacks is effortless (if a little selfish).

My favourite initiating rotation is Toss S>’lix B>Toss B>overcharge shot>grenade barrage>netshot>poison grenades>jumpshot>blunderbuss.

What I love so much is that the leap finisher produces 8 sec of weakness (as an advocate of the elixir gun) is soooo valuable in a 1v1 duel and PG has the same (20sec) CD as jumpshot.

Great to see another Cele/HGH/Nade

Haha awesome to see another one out there! I go into firearms because with that many hit you are critting alot, so sharpshooter will proc a lot, and reduced CD is nice. BTW not getting iP is fine, but getting battle AND strength sigils seems like might overkill to me :P
(and lol that H(i)GH pun xD)

bethekey.8314:

Isn’t this just HGH being played in a meta 2x beyond it? If you want to see better videos of “your” build just look up ostricheggs vods almost a year ago.

Nope, this is totally different! Celestial, thief nerf, elixir buffs, it got a LOT better and has no real ‘hardcounters’, unlike before.

bethekey.8314:

ArrDee.2573

HGH fell off because of SD teef and power creep RIP ): But the new Celestial Amulet and the buffs to Elixir B/S makes HGH a better build than it was over a year ago where you had to choose between Rabid or Berserker, or to a lesser extent Carrion, and also deal with the super bad RNG buffs of elixirs! Still not an optimal build though!

Pros: Damage!
Cons: If someone looks at you, u ded!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

No offense vee, but I’ve been around as long or longer than you at higher ranks in pvp and I know what metas have passed lol. Don’t need a refresher! That’s part of the reason I said what I said to the original post. I also said what I said because OP refers to it being used in “higher tier” pvp, despite its use and then disuse in pvp over a year ago.

I’m not too familiar with all the engi stuff a year ago, but when I say ‘<mid cele HGH engi’ in team chat in SoloQ I get responses like ‘HGH? was dat? lol’ ‘We gonna lose…’ and ‘catch up with the meta and run 2-kit!’
Not sure how forum engi’s think about HGH, but people in SoloQ seem to despise it :/

Peutrifectus.4830:

bethekey.8314:

Isn’t this just HGH being played in a meta 2x beyond it? If you want to see better videos of “your” build just look up ostricheggs vods almost a year ago.

I thought the dude only ever had vids for power rifle HGH or P/P condi with EP+Zerk or IP+Rabid respectively.

I get the feeling Holtz has done the same as me. I started playing celestial rifle 6/4/4 but wasn’t 100% happy with the play style and after some tweeking here and some tweeking there, I was 1 trait away from HGH. A few games later and yeah… I’ve been using this build in PvP for about the last 3 months.

(here’s my version)

PvP – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlcTp6q1XxELseNSaBNq0I6mclq85GEgnC-TJRGwAAeAAJuAAg2fYZZAA

^This dude gets it, thanks Peut!

PierPiero.9142:

In my opinion , without toolkit a pistol shield build based, with hgh is much better. I’d trade nades for toolkit taking rifled barrels for having more range, otherwise i ’d go pistol shield condi with hgh . With your build you have only elixir S as block and it has a long cd .

That is the thing, I’m going HYBRID! With the might stacking I’m boosting power and condi damager, so going for condi would leave me with sub-par power and vis versa.

Elixir S, stealth, jump shotting away and counter pressure is more than enough to be able to survive without a shield^^ Just gotta adapt, shield ain’t mandatory.

Holl.3109

Nope, this is totally different! Celestial, thief nerf, elixir buffs, it got a LOT better and has no real ‘hardcounters’, unlike before.

Totally different, except for those silly traits, abilities, runes, and sigil(s). Elixir B -> Corrupt Boon. I could also argue that celestial is worse for HGH than rabid or carrion, but would rather not because it’s not worth my time.

Holl.3109

I’m not too familiar with all the engi stuff a year ago

I know the search on these forums is broken, but doesn’t anyone ever check google anymore? I mean if you’re going to go through the trouble of trying to create a new build, make a video and mini-guide post…don’t you first look to see if it has already been used extensively in the past before purporting it as an innovation?

Seems like you’re having fun with it though, which I suppose is what matters. What I’m touching on here is a completely different issue.

the thing about HGH cele nades in spvp is you get up to 25 might and hit like a monster, ive pulled 10k nade barrages outta it, in mid tier/casual play its actually a beast build to play and its still one of the best 1v1 builds around, imo you actually have to be a better player on HGH nades then the current meta because not landing your rotations will cost you the fight but watch carfully use your elixirs appropriately and make sure you land those skills and youll do huge damage.

bethekey.8314:

Holl.3109

Nope, this is totally different! Celestial, thief nerf, elixir buffs, it got a LOT better and has no real ‘hardcounters’, unlike before.

Totally different, except for those silly traits, abilities, runes, and sigil(s). Elixir B -> Corrupt Boon. I could also argue that celestial is worse for HGH than rabid or carrion, but would rather not because it’s not worth my time.

Holl.3109

I’m not too familiar with all the engi stuff a year ago

I know the search on these forums is broken, but doesn’t anyone ever check google anymore? I mean if you’re going to go through the trouble of trying to create a new build, make a video and mini-guide post…don’t you first look to see if it has already been used extensively in the past before purporting it as an innovation?

Seems like you’re having fun with it though, which I suppose is what matters. What I’m touching on here is a completely different issue.

This build EXACTLY you mean?
And it really wasn’t all that much trouble…

ukuni.8745:

the thing about HGH cele nades in spvp is you get up to 25 might and hit like a monster, ive pulled 10k nade barrages outta it, in mid tier/casual play its actually a beast build to play and its still one of the best 1v1 builds around, imo you actually have to be a better player on HGH nades then the current meta because not landing your rotations will cost you the fight but watch carfully use your elixirs appropriately and make sure you land those skills and youll do huge damage.

This exactly. It’s a more challenging build, with a higher risk/reward.

This build is fun and a nice change of pace. I just feel like you give up too much in comparison to standard cele-rifle build for a little more damage.

Skogsbrand.6715:

This build is fun and a nice change of pace. I just feel like you give up too much in comparison to standard cele-rifle build for a little more damage.

….a lot more damage, condition removal, stability, stealth, invulnerability, defensive boons, offensive boons….

Now before I say this, don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking the build or comparing it to normal cele engi at high level play in this particular post (though we all have our opinions!).

I can definitely see this build helping a newer player who found the extra kit, making good use of slick shoes, and correctly utilising healing turret a bit too much to handle. The players who fall into that category (the pretty casual ones) will find the invulnerability and Rez elixir particularly useful, won’t keep having their heal interrupted, and don’t necessarily need the team support of healing turret much.

Thanks for sharing your build and the footage – I’ll definitely be recommending it to some people!

Holl.3109:

Skogsbrand.6715:

This build is fun and a nice change of pace. I just feel like you give up too much in comparison to standard cele-rifle build for a little more damage.

….a lot more damage, condition removal, stability, stealth, invulnerability, defensive boons, offensive boons….

Giving up what exactly?

A block and 5 stacks of confusion?
Seems like little to me.

Anyway, don’t mind if I bump this, but after almost 2 weeks of play on this build, these are my finding, forwarning, not much structure to it. :P

1. Considerably less condi pressure on the engage, you are slower to apply them.
This is not usually the way I play my engi. But meh this worked.

2. Considerably more power damage.

3. Hoelbrak arn’t really needed here, the Elixers condi clear enough, change mine to Rune of Strength for even higher Might.
The only condi’s that become a problem are going to probably last long enough and drop you fast enough to not be affected by 20% reduction, for example vs a Necro.

4. Necros still hard to take on with it, but A LOT better than BOTH the rabid and current meta cele build and almost any other engi build I have tried.

5. NOT enough poison, running a sigil of doom on secondary helps A LOT.

Overall very few weaknesses, but its much more a power build than the current meta cele engi.

have you consider swapping celestial for knight ? ( i played that some time ago )

PierPiero.9142:

have you consider swapping celestial for knight ? ( i played that some time ago )

Have done on a previous Engi build. However I found the lack of condi pressure a MASSIVE loss to me.

Its bad enough on this build, love me some condis.

Novuake.2691:

Giving up what exactly?

A block and 5 stacks of confusion?
Seems like little to me.

• A 3 second block every 16 seconds is a huge survivability boon! Also Prybar can hit for almost 5000 and confusion really wrecks DD Elementalists which are the FOTM! And Magnet is a great opener and combo setup! And it’s great for forcing a high priority target out of position in a team fight! Box of Nails is an excellent tool for removing blinds and is great for applying cover conditions to protect your burning, poison, or chill! Throw Wrench hits extremely hard! There is a reason Tool Kit is run in every meta build!
• No vigor! Or you can take vigor in exchange for having your elixir cooldowns increased which reduces might stacks which is the whole point of the build!
• Formula 409 isn’t that great for condi removal! Yes in total you have a lot, but it’s all one condition at a time per utility! If you’re getting condi bombed, it won’t help at all and you’ll have to blow a lot of defensive cooldowns like heal, S, invis, etc!
• The build is extremely fragile and you have to rely completely on positioning for survival and even then someone like a Thief can jump on you and you have little ways of dealing with it!
• Boon removal = RIP! Thieves are everywhere and their meta builds run boon removal! SD Thieves have even more boon removal! Necro boon removal = RIP! Mesmer boon removal = RIP!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

i agree with you. I played a variation with 10 in firearm for rifle barrels , no granadeer and toolkit instead of nades so knight worked well but i did not find it optimal

ArrDee.2573:

Novuake.2691:

Giving up what exactly?

A block and 5 stacks of confusion?
Seems like little to me.

• A 3 second block every 16 seconds is a huge survivability boon! Also Prybar can hit for almost 5000 and confusion really wrecks DD Elementalists which are the FOTM! And Magnet is a great opener and combo setup! And it’s great for forcing a high priority target out of position in a team fight! Box of Nails is an excellent tool for removing blinds and is great for applying cover conditions to protect your burning, poison, or chill! Throw Wrench hits extremely hard! There is a reason Tool Kit is run in every meta build!
• No vigor! Or you can take vigor in exchange for having your elixir cooldowns increased which reduces might stacks which is the whole point of the build!
• Formula 409 isn’t that great for condi removal! Yes in total you have a lot, but it’s all one condition at a time per utility! If you’re getting condi bombed, it won’t help at all and you’ll have to blow a lot of defensive cooldowns like heal, S, invis, etc!
• The build is extremely fragile and you have to rely completely on positioning for survival and even then someone like a Thief can jump on you and you have little ways of dealing with it!
• Boon removal = RIP! Thieves are everywhere and their meta builds run boon removal! SD Thieves have even more boon removal! Necro boon removal = RIP! Mesmer boon removal = RIP!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

All true, but the ONLY one of the above mentioned I found a problem.

1. Condi bomb. This is an issue for ANY Engi, even with Hoelbrak + Healing Turret, Formula 409 performs better than the standard Engi condi removals as long as you do not get locked down constantly.

2. D/D Eles with a fair amount of skill can make things hard, but if you land a single knockdown/stun/slow/root, you got the fight.

The rest is NOT an issue for me SO FAR :

3. Loss of shield/ magnet and confusion, these are REALLY REALLY nice to have, but this build does not hinge around being on point CONSTANTLY, its in/out/in/out, at least that is how I have come to play it.

4. You still have some RNG vigor, but yeah, a little more would be great, but again, you are not constantly on point and 80% of your DPS is at a decent 400+ range.

5. I do not have ANY issues vs Thiefs, can completely shut them down with cleave damage alone the moment they engage on me in Melee.

I DO MISS MY MORE CONDI’s THOUGH!

Ill just note again, I am NOT a high level player, just sharing my experiences with the build.

I just answered your question of “giving up what exactly”! The whole point of playing HGH is to play a build that isn’t meta and if it works for you and you enjoy it then keep playing it!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Thanks for taking the time to test out the build further Nov!
I agree with most things, except with you VeeWee -.-

All the things you said were true, and I do consider this the more bursty/challenging cele engi build but you aren’t as aquishy as you say. Condi clear, hoelbrak, immob, invuln, stealth, rifle 4, grenade 3/4 are USUALLY more than enough to survive most encounters. You also have ~2.3k toughness if i’m right and 23k k hp so you don’t ‘If someone looks at you, u ded!’ :P

thanks again everyone!

ArrDee.2573:

Novuake.2691:

Giving up what exactly?

A block and 5 stacks of confusion?
Seems like little to me.

• A 3 second block every 16 seconds is a huge survivability boon! Also Prybar can hit for almost 5000 and confusion really wrecks DD Elementalists which are the FOTM! And Magnet is a great opener and combo setup! And it’s great for forcing a high priority target out of position in a team fight! Box of Nails is an excellent tool for removing blinds and is great for applying cover conditions to protect your burning, poison, or chill! Throw Wrench hits extremely hard! There is a reason Tool Kit is run in every meta build!
• No vigor! Or you can take vigor in exchange for having your elixir cooldowns increased which reduces might stacks which is the whole point of the build!
• Formula 409 isn’t that great for condi removal! Yes in total you have a lot, but it’s all one condition at a time per utility! If you’re getting condi bombed, it won’t help at all and you’ll have to blow a lot of defensive cooldowns like heal, S, invis, etc!
• The build is extremely fragile and you have to rely completely on positioning for survival and even then someone like a Thief can jump on you and you have little ways of dealing with it!
• Boon removal = RIP! Thieves are everywhere and their meta builds run boon removal! SD Thieves have even more boon removal! Necro boon removal = RIP! Mesmer boon removal = RIP!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Hey Veewee, for someone whos so easy to try and shut down a well established and still quite strong build you sure do push your fairly bad and quite alot more ineffectitive “Gadget meta” builds so much.

ukuni.8745:

ArrDee.2573:

Novuake.2691:

Giving up what exactly?

A block and 5 stacks of confusion?
Seems like little to me.

• A 3 second block every 16 seconds is a huge survivability boon! Also Prybar can hit for almost 5000 and confusion really wrecks DD Elementalists which are the FOTM! And Magnet is a great opener and combo setup! And it’s great for forcing a high priority target out of position in a team fight! Box of Nails is an excellent tool for removing blinds and is great for applying cover conditions to protect your burning, poison, or chill! Throw Wrench hits extremely hard! There is a reason Tool Kit is run in every meta build!
• No vigor! Or you can take vigor in exchange for having your elixir cooldowns increased which reduces might stacks which is the whole point of the build!
• Formula 409 isn’t that great for condi removal! Yes in total you have a lot, but it’s all one condition at a time per utility! If you’re getting condi bombed, it won’t help at all and you’ll have to blow a lot of defensive cooldowns like heal, S, invis, etc!
• The build is extremely fragile and you have to rely completely on positioning for survival and even then someone like a Thief can jump on you and you have little ways of dealing with it!
• Boon removal = RIP! Thieves are everywhere and their meta builds run boon removal! SD Thieves have even more boon removal! Necro boon removal = RIP! Mesmer boon removal = RIP!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Hey Veewee, for someone whos so easy to try and shut down a well established and still quite strong build you sure do push your fairly bad and quite alot more ineffectitive “Gadget meta” builds so much.

No no nooooooooooo!!!! No VeeWee bashing on my thread!
He/she is just trying to help, and expresses her/his opinion quite strongly but I can handle it!

Agreed, this is just a discussion.

Holl.3109:

Thanks for taking the time to test out the build further Nov!
I agree with most things, except with you VeeWee -.-

All the things you said were true, and I do consider this the more bursty/challenging cele engi build but you aren’t as aquishy as you say. Condi clear, hoelbrak, immob, invuln, stealth, rifle 4, grenade 3/4 are USUALLY more than enough to survive most encounters. You also have ~2.3k toughness if i’m right and 23k k hp so you don’t ‘If someone looks at you, u ded!’ :P

thanks again everyone!

Stats don’t matter! You can have all the toughness and health in the world! If you can’t dodge and have no sustian, you are not tanky! No Backpack Regen, no vigor, no defensive utilities except S, fragile!

ukuni.8745:

Hey Veewee, for someone whos so easy to try and shut down a well established and still quite strong build you sure do push your fairly bad and quite alot more ineffectitive “Gadget meta” builds so much.

All I was doing is answering someone’s question, not putting down the build! It’s a suboptimal build but Vee Wee has always advocated playing how you like and even posted that if you enjoy the build you should play it! Also the gadgetmeta is great if you know how to play it! Check out some of Vee Wee’s vods! Vee Wee beats even higher skilled players with it!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Hey Holl. I notice you are using battle and I think doom? The link to gw2skills only has one sigil so I assume it was an over sight. I also noted that half the time you had Elixir X. Did you ever use that or do you normally use the crate? I find that if I can CC someone into a corner, tornado 3 can keep them there if they are out of stun breaks. I never thought of cele in a power, I normally run zerk. So I may switch that into by build.