Guild Wars 2

From the patch notes:

Throw Mine and Mine Field skills: Certain friendly NPCs no longer detonate mines.
Scatter Mines skill: Recharge is no longer impacted by the Rifled Barrels trait.

These present new issues with mines that are greater than the original issues.

Mine Field no longer explode when enemies cross them and can only be detonated manually. Furthermore, when the Rifled Barrels trait is active, the mines not only no longer explode, but they trigger a 20 second cooldown on Mine Field whenever any creature (ally, enemy or yourself) steps on them (regardless of Recharge Rate reduction from the Tools line). This cooldown resets whenever any creature crosses them (thus making them unable to be even manually detonated) in a perpetual loop.

It will be fixed next month maybe

I never use this skill and very few do, and I’m not a whiner—however:

If the devs push a hotfix for this, it will be good for public relations. Alternatively, if the skill remains unusable…it would be bad for PR. Just sayin’.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I never use this skill and very few do, and I’m not a whiner—however:

If the devs push a hotfix for this, it will be good for public relations. Alternatively, if the skill remains unusable…it would be bad for PR. Just sayin’.

They are completely fine with bad PR, Scope has remained unusable for a very long time

Super Riceman.8702:

It will be fixed next month maybe

nah. In 9 months.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I never use this skill and very few do, and I’m not a whiner—however:

If the devs push a hotfix for this, it will be good for public relations. Alternatively, if the skill remains unusable…it would be bad for PR. Just sayin’.

I would use it more if the throw mine effect was a knockdown rather than a launch.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I never use this skill and very few do, and I’m not a whiner—however:

If the devs push a hotfix for this, it will be good for public relations. Alternatively, if the skill remains unusable…it would be bad for PR. Just sayin’.

Very few use it because they are too busy whining instead of trying it out. It does pretty beefy damage + boon removal.

Ghostpilot.6237:

From the patch notes:

Throw Mine and Mine Field skills: Certain friendly NPCs no longer detonate mines.
Scatter Mines skill: Recharge is no longer impacted by the Rifled Barrels trait.

These present new issues with mines that are greater than the original issues.

Mine Field no longer explode when enemies cross them and can only be detonated manually. Furthermore, when the Rifled Barrels trait is active, the mines not only no longer explode, but they trigger a 20 second cooldown on Mine Field whenever any creature (ally, enemy or yourself) steps on them (regardless of Recharge Rate reduction from the Tools line). This cooldown resets whenever any creature crosses them (thus making them unable to be even manually detonated) in a perpetual loop.

Great. So once again they focus solely on PVP fixes, the put out a change to PVE that breaks even more PVE builds and devices forcing people to use kits even more then they were before instead of gadgets and we’re just supposed to wait patiently while they notice ( if ever judging about how scopes has gone since BWE2 )

I usually set the thing off when I drop them but I can see this being a problem. See this poses a secondary issue. They already dropped in weird places with no decernable pattern usually behind the player anyway. I also found them to be useless when mobs ran over them in PVE so now they are doubly so.

Gotta say I can’t imagine someone in upper management actually seeing the problems here and approving what they did in this patch much less the ones in the previous patch.

This Bug is underwater too.

tigirius.9014:

Ghostpilot.6237:

From the patch notes:

Throw Mine and Mine Field skills: Certain friendly NPCs no longer detonate mines.
Scatter Mines skill: Recharge is no longer impacted by the Rifled Barrels trait.

These present new issues with mines that are greater than the original issues.

Mine Field no longer explode when enemies cross them and can only be detonated manually. Furthermore, when the Rifled Barrels trait is active, the mines not only no longer explode, but they trigger a 20 second cooldown on Mine Field whenever any creature (ally, enemy or yourself) steps on them (regardless of Recharge Rate reduction from the Tools line). This cooldown resets whenever any creature crosses them (thus making them unable to be even manually detonated) in a perpetual loop.

Great. So once again they focus solely on PVP fixes, the put out a change to PVE that breaks even more PVE builds and devices forcing people to use kits even more then they were before instead of gadgets and we’re just supposed to wait patiently while they notice ( if ever judging about how scopes has gone since BWE2 )

I usually set the thing off when I drop them but I can see this being a problem. See this poses a secondary issue. They already dropped in weird places with no decernable pattern usually behind the player anyway. I also found them to be useless when mobs ran over them in PVE so now they are doubly so.

Gotta say I can’t imagine someone in upper management actually seeing the problems here and approving what they did in this patch much less the ones in the previous patch.

Let’s be honest here, PVErs are spoiled as it is.

digiowl.9620:

I would use it more if the throw mine effect was a knockdown rather than a launch.

Why’s that? Launch is awesome!

Chaba.5410:

digiowl.9620:

I would use it more if the throw mine effect was a knockdown rather than a launch.

Why’s that? Launch is awesome!

Indeed, with Net+ throw mine you can knock the enemy in any direction you want.

Come home from work…read patch notes…more bugs added…less fixed.

>_<

@work…

Is this skill broken or only broken with a trait?

I love my Mines and always have it up on my bar, this will be very disappointing if they broke something that was working fine for me :/

Chaba.5410:

digiowl.9620:

I would use it more if the throw mine effect was a knockdown rather than a launch.

Why’s that? Launch is awesome!

Sadly the mine does a knockback and no Launch.
A Launch would be super awesome and a reason to use it.
But there is no reason for me to take mines over bombs or nades.

And hell there is no reason to replace toolkit or e-gun with them either.

Kontrolle.3514:

Chaba.5410:

digiowl.9620:

I would use it more if the throw mine effect was a knockdown rather than a launch.

Why’s that? Launch is awesome!

Sadly the mine does a knockback and no Launch.
A Launch would be super awesome and a reason to use it.
But there is no reason for me to take mines over bombs or nades.

And hell there is no reason to replace toolkit or e-gun with them either.

Could have sworn it knocks them on their behind, but then i have not used them much.

Thing is i was considering using them as a grenade replacement. But the knockback/launch make it bothersome when tossing into a fight, as whoever are in melee has to chase the mob down. It also scatters them.

This is the kind of thing i wish there was traits or similar for. Changing slightly the behavior of attacks. Turning launch/knockback into simply knockdown or similar.

I can’t for instance properly combo ol’ bomb and fire bomb because the big one send them flying when i would love for them to stay in the DOT.

digiowl.9620:

Kontrolle.3514:

Chaba.5410:

digiowl.9620:

I would use it more if the throw mine effect was a knockdown rather than a launch.

Why’s that? Launch is awesome!

Sadly the mine does a knockback and no Launch.
A Launch would be super awesome and a reason to use it.
But there is no reason for me to take mines over bombs or nades.

And hell there is no reason to replace toolkit or e-gun with them either.

Could have sworn it knocks them on their behind, but then i have not used them much.

Thing is i was considering using them as a grenade replacement. But the knockback/launch make it bothersome when tossing into a fight, as whoever are in melee has to chase the mob down. It also scatters them.

This is the kind of thing i wish there was traits or similar for. Changing slightly the behavior of attacks. Turning launch/knockback into simply knockdown or similar.

I can’t for instance properly combo ol’ bomb and fire bomb because the big one send them flying when i would love for them to stay in the DOT.

i think there should be a trait to magnetically attract enemies with the Mine skill, instead of knocking them away.

wolfshirt.8459:

digiowl.9620:

Kontrolle.3514:

Chaba.5410:

digiowl.9620:

I would use it more if the throw mine effect was a knockdown rather than a launch.

Why’s that? Launch is awesome!

Sadly the mine does a knockback and no Launch.
A Launch would be super awesome and a reason to use it.
But there is no reason for me to take mines over bombs or nades.

And hell there is no reason to replace toolkit or e-gun with them either.

Could have sworn it knocks them on their behind, but then i have not used them much.

Thing is i was considering using them as a grenade replacement. But the knockback/launch make it bothersome when tossing into a fight, as whoever are in melee has to chase the mob down. It also scatters them.

This is the kind of thing i wish there was traits or similar for. Changing slightly the behavior of attacks. Turning launch/knockback into simply knockdown or similar.

I can’t for instance properly combo ol’ bomb and fire bomb because the big one send them flying when i would love for them to stay in the DOT.

i think there should be a trait to magnetically attract enemies with the Mine skill, instead of knocking them away.

Poe’s Law time.

Confirmed: Tested in the mists on the roaming golem near the dps trial waypoint.

1. Place minefield in path of golem.
2. Golem paths over mines causing their cooldown (20 seconds) to start, but no mines detonate.

Behavior continues as long as enemy passes over mines before the cooldown has finished.

This is with no traits whatsoever.

It also does this weird thing where it shakes screens.

you should be detonating manually strait away…

in fact, the toolbet skill, if you are close to your enemy is crazy burst.. sometimekitten squishies for 2k per mine.. plus its aoe so awesome if mobs or other players are stacked, such as on a point

in pve, the throw mine skill is very handy for that extra couple seconds you get from the knockback plus its a blast finisher.. throw poison nade, throw mine for aoe weakness

I do usually detonate it straight-off (unless I’m planning some kind of trap, which is…pretty rare). Problem is…sometimes it lands on somebody, due to the unpredictable spread, and then it’s locked up until the mines vanish on their own.

Regardless of the ‘proper’ usage of it, the kitten thing’s bugged, period.

You know… I’ve seen this multiple times at work.

Much of the way they attempt to fix bugs and cause new, “interesting” bugs sounds as if the codebase isn’t their own. Maybe the GW1 live team handles GW2 support and bugfixing while a separate team programmed it? Something like that.

Minefield is broken indeed. Why? Because Engineer is not supposed to have burst! It was fun running with mines for two months after KR nerf, now I’m back to nades for the time being I guess.

Necromancer got the same thing.

They debugged something with marks targetting, only to bug our 20% marks cooldown reduction at the same time.

Way to go anet, way to go.

Happen each freaking time.

Remember the turrets, the medpack ect..

Ugh. Sorry to hear about the Necro Marks bug. This is getting ridiculous.

They don’t test their changes, and it shows – they’re too busy trying to pump out new stuff to make it work right.

Ghostpilot.6237:

From the patch notes:

Throw Mine and Mine Field skills: Certain friendly NPCs no longer detonate mines.
Scatter Mines skill: Recharge is no longer impacted by the Rifled Barrels trait.

These present new issues with mines that are greater than the original issues.

Mine Field no longer explode when enemies cross them and can only be detonated manually. Furthermore, when the Rifled Barrels trait is active, the mines not only no longer explode, but they trigger a 20 second cooldown on Mine Field whenever any creature (ally, enemy or yourself) steps on them (regardless of Recharge Rate reduction from the Tools line). This cooldown resets whenever any creature crosses them (thus making them unable to be even manually detonated) in a perpetual loop.

Confirm, you can’t detonate the mine field if anything walk on it cause the trigger of the 20 seconds cooldown, but not only, everytime everything step on it, this cooldown resets.

I don’t use the Rifled Barrels trait.

I hope in a quick fix, like usually done with other more-played-classes
Reverting back the mine field is ok :P thanks

JonPeters.5630:

We are aware. Working on a fix.

I was sorta expecting the following:

1. You would fix the bug making glue bomb worthwhile for its risk (melee instead of lightning cage, cleansable and dodge able with a delay instead of an aoe knockback circle) but ignore mine kit as that is not anything that can be taken advantage of.

2. Comment that the code looked fine and that it has probably always worked, its just that we as a community are too unrefined in our testing methods (instead of not preforming any QA at all cough).

3. Defenders would claim that “yeah its probably working, just not the way one would think, i mean, who say mines HAVE to explode? Now they remain scary no matter if they dodge or move over them!”.

4. It will get fixed when scope is.

But you acknowledging the problem sort of turn this upside down jon.

Anywayswhilewehaveadevonthespot:

Thinking about it it probably is better now, the damage is ridiculously low for that small trigger areas and that purpose so the sugar pill method probably is better. They are fricking mines that hits for less than a riffle auto. Only thing needed to be fixed is so that detonate all is instead “remove all”, removing their roles as 100 nades junior should their damage actually become decent. Do that and double or heck even tripple the damage. If any loser that is to lazy to move one meter to the left or right or who cant think of wasting a dodge to neutralize close to all at once then you need a proper spank, if you can defend thief bursting or mesmer bursting by saying that it involves “play”, then what doesn’t a mine field do? They should be feared, every time you step on a mine you should think “oh kitten-”, not “oh the loud bang did more damage by breaking my concentration than the 400 damage i took from the mine”. The boon removal is nice sorta, but any boon user plow through them and reapply them. Not to mention pets, minions, clones, phantasms, elementals and rock dogs (why are they still in spvp??) mowing them down like a knife through butter, viciously tearing our poor defenseless mines to shreds (yeah, they barely take any damage so it feels more like they are a bigger threat to our landmines than our landmines are to them. Btw thats the reason noone use turrets, because a mesmer is basically a hard counter just by being there and dodging and we got lots of mesmers, heaps of the kitten things. So no hurry fixing this, i wont miss them.

Also give mortar some proper range (2000+) and when deployed the skill is replaced with a kit that allows you to mark locations with smoke (600-900 range) allowing you to mark for artillery strikes for your buddy who mans the mortar, shots hitting in the designated areas have different effects like “Mark red smoke: Mark the location for a caltrops strike, any caltrops rounds hitting in the area will immobilize for 3 seconds.” or “Mark yellow smoke: Mark the location for a mortar strike, all mortar shots (skill 1) hitting in that area deals 200% more damage.” This means that you can get more out of it using teamwork (as i feel it was intended to) and not going the automation turret route many seem to want. So in short, same skills on mortar but with a lot longer range and when placed gives you a kit allowing you to designate areas at short range to magnify the effects of the attacks for your buddy.

Anyways thanks for showing your face here.

JonPeters.5630:

We are aware. Working on a fix.

you fixed Glue Bomb fast enough…

By the way: the tooltip of Glue Bomb actually suggests it should work as it did since the patch: it applies immobilize and cripple, duration 3 seconds.
Nowhere does it say it applies immobilize on triggering and cripple on ticks. Both are mentioned as the same mechanic.

Glue Bomb was the fastest fix in engineer history, while the tooltip even suggests it should work that way.
And it wasn’t Glue Bomb that was broken by the way, it was the combination with Sitting Duck Trait. You could have let that trait only apply once and leave the bomb.

Any hotfixes for Scope, or are you guys still figuring out if it is broken or not?

Riffled Turret barrels doesn’t increase the range of Rocket turret by the way. How many times did that one appear in a patch note already as ‘fixed’?

Yes, I’m a bit upset.
And you can probably do without the sarcasm. But it’s getting a bit silly for engineers.
Please get a grip on the profession. Every patch you seem to lose direction a bit more. Seriously, no sarcasm this time: what on earth are you trying to do with engineers?

Hey guys, give Jon Peters a break. He’s acknowledged the problem and committed to sorting it out. It’s not as though this bug is as game breaking (for PvP anyway) as the Glue Bomb one.

What’s more, by posting here Jon’s showing that he’s listening to our feedback, which is the first constructive dialogue I’ve seen between the ANet Devs and the Eng community – and that’s something that’s been missing for too long.

Lets just

1. thank Jon for taking this one on – Thanks, Jon!
2. accept that there is still a lot of work to be done which will take far longer than we’d like but hopefully less than we fear; and
3. encourage Anet’s constructive participation with this community.

Zenguy.6421:

Hey guys, give Jon Peters a break. He’s acknowledged the problem and committed to sorting it out. It’s not as though this bug is as game breaking (for PvP anyway) as the Glue Bomb one.

What’s more, by posting here Jon’s showing that he’s listening to our feedback, which is the first constructive dialogue I’ve seen between the ANet Devs and the Eng community – and that’s something that’s been missing for too long.

Lets just

1. thank Jon for taking this one on – Thanks, Jon!
2. accept that there is still a lot of work to be done which will take far longer than we’d like but hopefully less than we fear; and
3. encourage Anet’s constructive participation with this community.

I actually agree with all you wrote.
It’s just that it’s a bit hard to simply forget the way things been handled before.

For people using mine this actually is gamebreaking by the way.
But this aside.

Mostly it’s a bit unlucky for PR that Glue Bomb gets fixed overnight, and that the bugs which are not in our favour all take longer, till forever and a day.
Unlucky, I didn’t say ‘intended’ or ‘evil plan’!

But you’re right: it’s great Jon is coming here to reply.
It’s the most important thing in the end: knowing what’s going on.

And frankly: I think he can stand the heat, why else would he come in this kitchen

It’s nice to see a dev on these boards about a bug. Be even nicer if the dev would look at our bug list. This is a new bug, after all. I’m not going to pretend the dev’s going to be looking back into this thread one way or another, however – they probably finally thought that it might be a good idea to let people know that they haven’t been entirely forgotten.

Only took months.

Yeah, dev response! I was really upset about the mine bug as I started playing it monday… One day before the bug.

For the “bomb before mine” fix, I suppose it was really easier to fix.

While suddenly rushing out fixes overnight, maybe take a look at:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Engineer-Bugs-Compilation-1/page/6

Some have been on that list since launch, and im not just talking about Scope, there are actually more bugs like Scope that have been around since launch.

Kimbald.2697:

Yes, I’m a bit upset.
And you can probably do without the sarcasm. But it’s getting a bit silly for engineers.
Please get a grip on the profession. Every patch you seem to lose direction a bit more. Seriously, no sarcasm this time: what on earth are you trying to do with engineers?

You think Engineers are the only class with problems? The PvE Poster Child, the Guardian, has had several broken skills/mechanics since day one.

Perfect Inscriptions has been broken in PvE as long as I can remember. It was just fixed Tuesday. It is a Tier 3, Grandmaster trait and it took them 6+ months to fix it. Imagine if Juggernaut or Elixir-Infused Bombs didn’t work right for 6+ months and not Scope.

Symbol of Swiftness still doesn’t stack efficiently with other Swiftness buffs. Judge’s Intervention still is flaky as hell. Guard Staff’s Orb of Light is fired at a crooked angle and gets stuck in the ground more often than Flame Blast does. Protector’s Strike still has wonky block mechanics and won’t block effectively.

There are just a lot of bugs to fix. Across all classes. They’re not going to get to everything every month given how stretched thin the staff is right now. And don’t act like the Engineer is being snubbed because even the most popular class in the game has a lot of problems.

Chill out.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kimbald.2697:

Yes, I’m a bit upset.
And you can probably do without the sarcasm. But it’s getting a bit silly for engineers.
Please get a grip on the profession. Every patch you seem to lose direction a bit more. Seriously, no sarcasm this time: what on earth are you trying to do with engineers?

You think Engineers are the only class with problems? The PvE Poster Child, the Guardian, has had several broken skills/mechanics since day one.

Perfect Inscriptions has been broken in PvE as long as I can remember. It was just fixed Tuesday. It is a Tier 3, Grandmaster trait and it took them 6+ months to fix it. Imagine if Juggernaut or Elixir-Infused Bombs didn’t work right for 6+ months and not Scope.

Symbol of Swiftness still doesn’t stack efficiently with other Swiftness buffs. Judge’s Intervention still is flaky as hell. Guard Staff’s Orb of Light is fired at a crooked angle and gets stuck in the ground more often than Flame Blast does. Protector’s Strike still has wonky block mechanics and won’t block effectively.

There are just a lot of bugs to fix. Across all classes. They’re not going to get to everything every month given how stretched thin the staff is right now. And don’t act like the Engineer is being snubbed because even the most popular class in the game has a lot of problems.

Chill out.

1. I am chilled
2. I never said engineers are the only ones with problems
3. the part you quote isn’t even about bug fixes
4. read on, the next posts actually show I’m not taking it as serious as you do
5. maybe chill yourself?

You’re writing posts claiming the developers are losing direction and need to “get a grip.” But apparently you don’t take this as seriously as I do.

Not sure why I much have to do anything. I’m just telling you that all classes are a work in progress, and they’re not going to get to everything in a month given how few people they probably have working on bug-fixes for all classes.

Writing combative questions like “Any hotfixes for Scope, or are you guys still figuring out if it is broken or not?” really is no help to anybody and is probably half the reason they don’t post here as often as people want. Would you want to listen to that crap all day?

You guys define what kind of tone this community is going to have, but if you want to continue to be a “sour kitten” as you aptly entitled yourself in the other thread, that’s a choice as well.

Just my two cents.

Phineas Poe.3018:

You’re writing posts claiming the developers are losing direction and need to “get a grip.” But apparently you don’t take this as seriously as I do.

Not sure why I much have to do anything. I’m just telling you that all classes are a work in progress, and they’re not going to get to everything in a month given how few people they probably have working on bug-fixes for all classes.

Writing combative questions like “Any hotfixes for Scope, or are you guys still figuring out if it is broken or not?” really is no help to anybody and is probably half the reason they don’t post here as often as people want. Would you want to listen to that crap all day?

You guys define what kind of tone this community is going to have, but if you want to continue to be a “sour kitten” as you aptly entitled yourself in the other thread, that’s a choice as well.

Just my two cents.

lighten up, seriously.

and for the record: they more than deserved that sneer about Scope, they messed that one up big time by saying after months that it wasn’t broken.
And here as well: it was in jest… I wouldn’t insult someone for real over something so trivial.

Bottom line of your post: you don’t like me, and that’s making you take my posts way too serious. You referred to several posts I made in different topics, so yes: you don’t like me
Now take a guess at how much I care about you liking me or not, and about being taken too serious or not…

I mostly try to be helpfull here to other players, as you do too.
And I’m also being very critical on these forums, if you don’t like that part: too bad.
I never needed anyone else’s approval to formulate my own opinion.

And between us: Jon Peters, nor any other dev, needs you to defend them. They can handle my mild sneers just fine I’m sure.

Just on that bit about the direction of engineers, about getting a grip on the profession:

are we really still a ‘versatile’ profession? As a profession defining feature I mean?
More than others?

And ‘mid-range’?
Still a very vague concept. There is ‘mostly melee’ and ‘far away’ and than there is ‘getting from one to the other while shooting’.
Mid range should be halfway between melee range and long range… we have nothing there that others don’t have.

I don’t see a line in what is being buffed and nerfed, they mostly seem seperate idea’s thrown together.

So while the formulating was indeed not that respectfull, the question for the devs was actually real and relevant to me (even if it’s not relevant to you).

JonPeters.5630:

Kimbald.2697:

Riffled Turret barrels doesn’t increase the range of Rocket turret by the way. How many times did that one appear in a patch note already as ‘fixed’?

This trait actually works with Rocket turret, however, I just discovered that the rocket it fires while traited is invisible. I checked in a fix which should hopefully appear in about 2 weeks on live.

Thanks for the detailed report,

Jon

Thanks! Even though we’re usually too busy arguing with each other to say much else, we really do appreciate that you’re taking time to let us know the status of some of these bugfixes.

On second thought, though—invisible rockets? Nice! Let’s just make that a permanent feature…

JonPeters.5630:

Kimbald.2697:

Riffled Turret barrels doesn’t increase the range of Rocket turret by the way. How many times did that one appear in a patch note already as ‘fixed’?

This trait actually works with Rocket turret, however, I just discovered that the rocket it fires while traited is invisible. I checked in a fix which should hopefully appear in about 2 weeks on live.

Thanks for the detailed report,

Jon

testing it in the Mists right now.

I notice the turret doesn’t do anything at all for a while, no numbers on the dummy or anything.
So it’s certainly missing some shots, or even the overcharge.

Than after a while, it hits the dummy indeed with an invisable rocket.

Any idea why it misses several before shooting an invisable one?

The bug compilation thread hasn’t been updated in a few months. So think it is time for a new thread. I’m considering making another thread but it is a lot of work. They fixed some of the bugs on there and added some new ones. So we need a new one tried contacting the guy as he requested if someone wanted to take over but haven’t heard back from him. I’m gonna take a crack at testing all the bugs there and making sure they still exist. Last thing we want is the developers wasting time on non existing bugs. Also I think some video representation would help explain some of the more complex bugs. So they know how to reproduce them.

Kimbald.2697:

Now take a guess at how much I care about you liking me or not, and about being taken too serious or not…

Well that escalated quickly.

Kimbald.2697:

Just on that bit about the direction of engineers, about getting a grip on the profession:

are we really still a ‘versatile’ profession? As a profession defining feature I mean?
More than others?

We’re more versatile than most. How many classes have access to a healing skill that not only heals and cures conditions on other people in the group, but is also a Blast finisher?

How many classes have skills that offer a stunbreaker, Endurance refill, and a group revival all in one slot?

Engineers have pretty significant depth to their utilities and weapon skills compared to other classes that plays into our versatility. Look at our Shield, for example.

Magnetic Shield can be used as a projectile reflect against ranged foes, an AoE knockback against melee foes, or simply used as a Blast finisher to apply Area Might or Area Heals depending on the combo field. How is that not versatile? Compared to the Shield skills Warrior and Guardian have?

Kimbald.2697:

And ‘mid-range’?
Still a very vague concept. There is ‘mostly melee’ and ‘far away’ and than there is ‘getting from one to the other while shooting’.
Mid range should be halfway between melee range and long range… we have nothing there that others don’t have.

Not exactly. Look at the Mesmer Greatsword and the Ranger Longbow and then the Engineer Grenade Kit. We do the same damage regardless of where we are while those classes are tethered to being at 1000+ range to get the most damage out of their weapons.

The Engineer has the flexibility to be utilized at both close range and long. The vast majority of our Combo fields are targetable, meaning we can lay them down wherever we need to. I will often drop my Super Elixir between the Ranger and the Guardian in a group so that the Ranger’s projectiles fly through the field and cure conditions on the Guardian. I will often make the point to drop my Healing Turret between the melee and ranged classes so they all get the benefit of my Runes of Altruism, Regeneration, and Area Heal.

I have a Warrior, Guardian, and Elementalist aside from my Engineer, and I feel like regardless of how I build those classes, I don’t “hover around” in the mid-field as much as I do with my Engineer. The class just naturally plays into that flexibility, like standing at 200 range using Poison Dart Volley to stack Poison a single target or standing at 900 range spreading it into a crowd.

Kimbald.2697:

I don’t see a line in what is being buffed and nerfed, they mostly seem seperate idea’s thrown together.

Really? You don’t see how the Healing Turret buff is playing into improving the class’s versatility? We’re not longer tethered to sinking points into Alchemy for Cleansing Formula 409.

The Kit Refinement nerf was brutal and I think was still a misguided decision. But Engineers are still in a pretty proper state in most areas of the game and I’d say is in a better place than it ever has been.

Not saying engineers are broken or anything, just missing a clear feeling of what the profession is envisioned to be.

Healing turret was of course an improvement. But they specifically mentioned it was done so we would stop picking up our turrets immediately.
They didn’t even say ‘detonate’ they said ‘pick up’.
And after the change, picking up or detonating is still what we do.
That’s the sort of thing I’m referring to: they make a change with a purpose or a goal in mind… and it fails at putting us in that direction.

The other turret buffs fall under the same: turrets will only be usable for anything else than point defending, if a few very important changes are made. The patch that buffed turrets, didn’t solve any of those issues at all.
Turrets aren’t useless, but the main issues remain untouched still. And that hinders opening up the profession of course.

I agree we got better over time, there are more viable builds than HGH or SD.

We’re not more versatile than others, no. That’s not determined by looking at seperate skills, that is determined by looking at versatile builds.
Engineers do not have more, or better, versatile builds than other professions.
We can sacrifice some damage for versatility, but so can others.

Others can stop reading here, if they got this far at all
And lastly: about that escalating between us two: read your post again. You lashed out at me, no excuses there. I didn’t start the personal attack, I just replied to your post.

It’s not because I don’t care if a stranger on a forum likes me or not, that I don’t usually go for the more friendly way of getting along just fine.
‘Learn to disagree in style’ is my motto. So next time you disagree, leave the judgemental and angry part.

If you couldn’t detect I wasn’t really insulting the devs, but mostly poking them to provoke them a bit, than so be it.
You apparantly read my other posts today, so if you put all those together, you should have noticed it wasn’t all that serious or aggressive.
You chose to read them as you did. You seemed bound on seeing them in the worst possible meaning.

It’s all good for me. I don’t mind one way or the other. Just as long as you know: my own way is that of friendly poking, and critical healthy discussion.

NickDollahZ.5348:

The bug compilation thread hasn’t been updated in a few months. So think it is time for a new thread. I’m considering making another thread but it is a lot of work. They fixed some of the bugs on there and added some new ones. So we need a new one tried contacting the guy as he requested if someone wanted to take over but haven’t heard back from him. I’m gonna take a crack at testing all the bugs there and making sure they still exist. Last thing we want is the developers wasting time on non existing bugs. Also I think some video representation would help explain some of the more complex bugs. So they know how to reproduce them.

I also think it would be great to update the bugs thread. Maybe there should be an “editing” thread first that quotes the existing bugs list, and then people can post all the ones that have been fixed or new bugs that have been discovered or (unfortunately) created since the last bugs list was made?

I agree that it would just be too time-consuming for one person to update the entire bugs list.

Kimbald.2697:

Healing turret was of course an improvement. But they specifically mentioned it was done so we would stop picking up our turrets immediately.
They didn’t even say ‘detonate’ they said ‘pick up’.
And after the change, picking up or detonating is still what we do.
That’s the sort of thing I’m referring to: they make a change with a purpose or a goal in mind… and it fails at putting us in that direction.

It’s still a step in the right direction, contrary to your claim that recent changes have been nebulous or inconsistent toward a bigger picture. They’re working on turrets and have been steadily improving them. Whether or not they managed to make it to where leaving turrets out is viable, I still see way more Healing Turrets out there than I used to, which is a start.

The Flamethrower didn’t become what it is by just one patch. It’ll take a series of patches to balance out. They overpowered the Tool Kit’s Pry Bar in one go and look what happened to Confusion in WvW. If you want meaningful, balanced changes, you have to be patient.

Kimbald.2697:

Engineers do not have more, or better, versatile builds than other professions.

Okay.

Show another class that can act as the off-tank of a group, curing 10+ conditions a minute on allies; has access to a Light field, Water field, and Fire field; can permanently sustain Poison and Burning on a target; has access to a 12-second Knockback, 2 separate Blind skills, Bleed stacking, Vulnerability stacking, and Confusion; and can also use two different projectile reflect skills and a projectile wall.

I’m sorry but I have to once again point it out. If we had proper testing things like this wouldn’t happen even if it was just for a week before posting the patch.

It seems to happen all the time anymore, this isn’t the first time we’ve been told twice that something was fixed in two different patch notes over a period of months and had to deal with bugs that were still released because they were missed in testing.