Guild Wars 2

Brvtvs.1572:

Ayestes.1273:

Actually it works even better in those environments, because you don’t get focused as often. Even when focused, Elixir S / 50% Toss Elixir S often deters them from focusing, and they often don’t refocus.

It’s an incredibly good dueling build as well, but I honestly can’t pin down a specific reason as to why.

Because people literraly kitten themselves seeing so many conditions on them whilst taking massive dmg and start to panic and mess up and job done …..

Haha, that is the reaction I get on teamspeak when playing hotjoin with guildies. I did mean that even in situations against those I’d see as calm, collected, and skilled it does well in those situations as well. Now that Empathic Bond is much changed, Rangers are pretty easy too.

hackks.3687:

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I can’t really agree with much of any of this.

Oh no I welcome discussion on differing viewpoints just fine. A Necro though, and yeah this is something I recognize as my opinion, is much more vulnerable to condi-removal then this damage. A Necro can control conditions much better and can strip the boons off no problem (and is underestimated as an Anti-Bunker in my opinion as well), but by simply applying regular doses of condi-removal that picks off the bleed stack a Necro’s damage is largely negated. I’ve also never felt threatened by the Necro’s direct damage in their Condi builds, but I actually don’t know how much their damage is diversified so while I think Engineer’s have an advantage here I’m not really certain of it.

It’s possible I’m underestimating the reliance on Might stacking with a Rampager Amulet, but that’s because I’ve vigorously tested it and I personally like the Rabid Amulet. Not to mention, since I use Sigil of Geomancy this build actually only hovers between 7 to 15 Might stacks. I’ve never had a problem killing someone when I was low on Might stacks. The only time I use Elixirs intentionally for Might stacks is B on cooldown, and Tossed H and B if I both don’t need the condi-removal and am not using a damage cooldown. I agree that intentionally keeping Might up is impractical in the build. As stated though, it’s my experience I don’t need it. I’ve even experimented without HGH before, but I find that whatever I can reach doesn’t make up for what is essentially free damage to me. Even in the worst case scenario the Might being stripped, it doesn’t take long to recover some of those stacks.

Just flat out AoE damage appears to be enough utility for me. I’m paraphrasing Phantaram from Teldo’s stream when he was talking about lacking control skills, but he mentioned what better control is there then someone being dead? Elixir X unfortunately has that RNG element, or else I might consider it. Supply Crate though wins fights just as hard as Tornado would to me, beyond trying to Neutralize a point which other builds/professions can do.

Oh yeah the defense is lacking, but it’s there. I played for the longest time without Elixir S and just Nades/Bombs/Elixir B. I honestly felt my survival was fine because of the Blinds. We clearly disagree with how strong Blinds are though, so yeah I guess we will leave it at that.

I mean I guess our experiences with it simply differ. I think it’s more competitive then 100 Nades is. I know that citing other people’s opinion may or may not matter, but discussion on Teldo’s stream indicates he feels the same way. As devastating as 100 Nades can potentially be, Condi-Burst is more reliable in terms of dropping someone to dead. At least to me, anyway and it’s especially the case in terms of Bunkers.

I have a feeling the rabid amulet is making the difference. Rampagers is decidedly lacking in dedication to either power or condi dmg so the might stacks are a must to bring the dmg output of either up to snuff, where as the Rabid obviously provides great condi dmg at all times that can only get better with might stacks. I don’t really feel like Rabid is sharing much synergy with ‘nades though due to nade’s direct dmg attribute – for instance, vuln stacking does nothing for condi dmg, and without the might stacking the direct dmg won’t be enough with just vuln stacking alone. It’s just not optimizing the 2nd weapon IMO.

I’ll admit I probably need to familiarize myself more with the build, and timings, and optimal combat decisions from one situation to the next (even though I’ve had a ton of success with it), but I still find even the aoe to be somewhat unimpressive, and over all it feels like just another condi build. To use the necro as an example again, if I drop my staff 2 > 3 > Well of Corruption > Staff 4 > Staff 5 (with Terror traited) = anything that was standing inside is down – bunkers included. I can drop whole teams at the same time with it and I haven’t even switched weapons or jumped into DS or even come close to maxing out my might stacks. When I think of tpvp viable aoe burst, this is what I’ve set my bar at (notably to live up to Mesmer and Ele aoe bursts), and while I want this build to do that, I can’t seem to make it happen.

Or Maybe I just suck at aiming my nades

Thank you for this template. Had a lot of fun with this

Nade Accuracy is important yeah, you need to be able to land pretty much full combos. It’s also possible that I underestimate Necros though, which is why I like the discussion because differing perspectives are useful. I don’t think Rabid would make the difference between viable and unviable though, since Rampager’s works very well for many others.

The Vuln stacking is more useful for protecting the conditions then increasing damage, but it does increase damage and is useful in team fights regardless.

It’s been a great discussion though, I like it.

Ayestes.1273:

A Necro can control conditions much better and can strip the boons off no problem (and is underestimated as an Anti-Bunker in my opinion as well)

Necro is underestimated as an debunker for good reason. Cuz it sucks balls doing so.
Necro can’t strip boons apart from using “Corrupt Boon” or going focus off hand which nobody really does. They buffed in on latest patch though…
Shatter mesmers are by far best ripping boons off from enemies.

and your worst enemy when playing this spec. Watch out dem freaking clones stealing our precious might stacks!

But shatter mesmers don’t counter this spec either

No Shatter Mesmers don’t really counter this spec either because they lack condi-removal. Avoid any of the Shatter damage while not bursting when they have Distortion and you pretty much get a free win.

Corrupt Boon though is good at dealing with Bunkers because it overloads them with conditions and makes them vulnerable to the Fear. Necromancers most definitely do not suck at dealing with Bunkers though, as conditions are actually your best bet at taking them out. I really think you are a bit too extreme in your opinion on this, but then that’s just my opinion.

There’s two major problems with your build’s specifics. The biggest is that you get too many might stacks. You can drop enhanced performance for short fuse (or explosive powder if you’re dead set on rampagers) and lose nothing except the ability to recover from the very sporadic loss of might.

The second is the rampagers amm. While it’s good in theory (the might stacks make up for the sub-par power/condi damage) it falls short compared to rabid in most respects. Survivability goes hands down to rabid because of the short CD heal and natural alchemy vit. Damage goes to rabid as well in my experience. The only thing rampagers really excels at is 1v1s against classes with a lot of condi removal (namely eles with cleansing fire).

either way this build is just stupid. Been runni nit for a while, it’s just dumb.

Oh, and if condi duration runes aren’t bugged anymore (they didn’t work since the last patch last I checked) you should run 2 lyssa or 4 nightmare for the burn proc

Ostricheggs.3742:

There’s two major problems with your build’s specifics. The biggest is that you get too many might stacks. You can drop enhanced performance for short fuse (or explosive powder if you’re dead set on rampagers) and lose nothing except the ability to recover from the very sporadic loss of might.

The second is the rampagers amm. While it’s good in theory (the might stacks make up for the sub-par power/condi damage) it falls short compared to rabid in most respects. Survivability goes hands down to rabid because of the short CD heal and natural alchemy vit. Damage goes to rabid as well in my experience. The only thing rampagers really excels at is 1v1s against classes with a lot of condi removal (namely eles with cleansing fire).

either way this build is just stupid. Been runni nit for a while, it’s just dumb.

Oh, and if condi duration runes aren’t bugged anymore (they didn’t work since the last patch last I checked) you should run 2 lyssa or 4 nightmare for the burn proc

Oh them being bugged would explain alot for me.

But anyway this or any variant of the HGH condi burst builds are extremly boring imo

Where the hell is the toolkit? This looks like a glass cannon build that will die to any competent thief/mesmer, or any other glass cannon that can stall out your Elixir S and gib you after.

A mesmer will have no issue with this build.

You need toolkit and shield to not be a sitting target to classes that can cleanse conditions and burst you down quicker than you can burst them.

Not that Tool Kit isn’t awesome, it just isn’t needed. You will simply kill any other glass cannon before they kill you. Elixir S is enough to avoid any bursts that get beyond Blind and Evades. Most glass cannons have very little condi removal, and even then condi removal isn’t that effective against these conditions due to the variety. Elixir B is key to an HGH build and is the only source of Swiftness you can scrape up. You can’t let that go.

Mesmers for example, lack condi removal. Once you hit them they are pretty much already dead. Mind Wrack cooldown won’t come up again before they are simply dead, even if they play safe in Staff. It’s a quick fight either way, but it is definitely in favor of the Engi. Teldo vs. Xeph is an example of some high level known players that have also come to this conclusion.

You don’t need more defense in the build when you kill opponents before they can kill you. You are just as if not more threatening damage wise in a fight against a glass cannon. People seriously underestimate the damage this build will output.

I will agree though that this build is one of the easier of any Engi build to run. Geomancy and Grenade accuracy are about the subtleties in the build beyond the usual knowledge of knowing how to avoid an opponent’s damage.

Mesmers put some in inspiration that clears conditions when they heal/shatter, and null field is pretty good for condi removal. Most glass cannons are just bad and don’t carry condi removal/use it on key conditions and that’s why they die.

I will admit this build is pretty kitten good for group fights.

This build will kitten on 95% of mesmers. 1v1 is a bit rougher, but if you land a good shrapnel or freeze you’ll have no problem most of the time. Staff mesmers are a kitten though. A good mesmer with null field and a staff can wreck us 1v1. A really good mesmer can ruin our day with random shatters, but most aren’t that great.

Although the specific build the OP presented should really have no problem if you lose might stacks, enhance performance with 6 might stacking runes is WAYYYYYY over the top for might.

Tried this build today. Super effective.. super boring for me.

Ill try and stick with it but history says ill be back playing my beloved FT/rifle build in 2 days :P

Yea builds like these kind of lost their luster with the elixir b nerf. Back the you could get the boons up 24/7 pretty easily and was before grenade nerf. Those were amazing days, then when the broken super elixir came out. Never have I had so much fun and success. I have the build posted somewhere around here back in October.

I personally don’t understand how people try to use a build like this without rifle

Ostricheggs.3742:

This build will kitten on 95% of mesmers. 1v1 is a bit rougher, but if you land a good shrapnel or freeze you’ll have no problem most of the time. Staff mesmers are a kitten though. A good mesmer with null field and a staff can wreck us 1v1. A really good mesmer can ruin our day with random shatters, but most aren’t that great.

This is why most engineers are skeptical of the build. At the top level of tournaments, where your teammates will instantly peel for you as soon as you need it, builds like condi/nade spam are amazing. They burn through FOTM builds like ele and ranger and as long as you’re in a great group, you’ll never get caught in an unfavorable 1v1 like this.

That means this is an awesome build for a small handful of players. For the rest, it’s still good, but it will never feel “OP” because you’ll get focused down quick and lose unfavorable 1v1s.

I never explicitly feel unfavored in a 1v1 with this build. You’re right on the team thing too, if you get focused you better pray you have a good team because once elixir S is gone you have two dodge rolls, an RNG stealth and a few cleanses between you and a quick death.

Comparatively though, our survivability is insane. Most necros run without a stunbreak, thieves get decimated, warriors get decimated, DPS guards get decimated, rangers get decimated. I’ve never really had too much trouble surviving and 1v1ing in this spec so long as I play well.

I actually have been without a team for a month or so now and even without peels and the like I think the build is incredibly powerful. I don’t think there is a single matchup where all hope is lost, and in the vast majority of situations it seems we have the advantage. As Ostricheggs has said, we have a lot of survival skills for one when you look out how much damage we can output .

Nightmare runes not granting 20% duration now and instead granting 0% kinda sucks in the meantime though. I feel like I’m doing less damage with Might stacking variations instead, but it’s difficult to tell.

Definitely. It’s a great build, no doubt about it.

Runs great with rapid amulet aswell… power of might stacks

NevirSayDie.6235:

Definitely. It’s a great build, no doubt about it.

Added mass vigor to make fights easier.

Teldo is using Sigil of Geomancy in tPvP, isn’t he?

This build isnt as good at all. Its boring and weak compared to my old kit-heavy builds.
I play solo most of the time and since patch i have a very hard time. I tried this build now and have to say its just not competetiv.

Kontrolle.3514:

This build isnt as good at all. Its boring and weak compared to my old kit-heavy builds.
I play solo most of the time and since patch i have a very hard time. I tried this build now and have to say its just not competetiv.

As far as I know this is your build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqel0pqbnvSrF1LJyIFd2nBqgeJSR+pffUwWPIA

But this is not complete. But I do not understand your idea behind this build. Could you give some words why your build is better?

Hard to describe but i try.
2x uninterruptable conditionremovement was worth so much coupled with the blind from FT. Partysupport is so awesome with 3x aoe condition removes and fumigate.

Tons of cc perma poision/burning. Perma speed, vigor, fury and 6-9 stacks might. Strong selfheals and kiteskills with E-Gun. During fights the mightstacks reach up to 21 with sigil of battle and the napalm combos.

Elixirs and grenades together are annoying as hell to use and the casttimes are just to high to remove immobalize effectiv which is important if you are outnumbered what i usually am.

Elixir gun is such an important tool in wvw andl, every build without it will fail but E-gun alone isnt enough. You really need a second kit to do damage. I tried alot builds but this one was the best solo spec i figured out until now. I use sigil of blood on every charachter and lifesteal food which was and still is really nice with flamethrower.

Purie.9046:

Shar.3402:

this is a tPvP build, so no food and no comparable armor in pve/wvw (since rampager stats in pvp are different than rampager stats in pve/wvw)

Exactly. This was first posted on Structered PvP section but mods moved it to engineer forums.

leashmaygoss.2140:

Davinci.8027:

The original build is Hiba’s, not Teldo’s.

Ayestes.1273:

I’ve even heard it came to Hiba from an unknown source, but many of us had very similar builds regardless. Hiba deserves credit regardless for spreading it around and destroying everyone in highest level of play & shifting the engineer meta with it though.

Who cares. I just mentioned teldo cuz I got it from him.

Right? I’ve never understood the obsession with getting authorship for anything someone does in a game.