Guild Wars 2

I think it’s a serious problem, and many people have addressed it in many aspects/fields, but I still want to share my views to get some feedback:

1) Bomb Kit not great:
bomb 1 does about 25% more damage than traited grenade 1, but bomb kit uses a bunch of conditions that have little to no dmg/use in most dungeon runs. Except when you are the only person that has access to fire/smoke field. Most pugs don’t even go through the trouble of stacking might! Groups that do care probably have better people for group stealth like thief, or stack might with Ele or War… So it’s rare when the bomb kit feels like it’s in an amazing place; this is worsen by the fact that engineers have no good range options except 30 points in grenades. So when you can’t fight melee, well you aren’t going to be doing much damage at all.

Only time bomb kit really shines = healing bomb melee support ( decent damage + high aoe regen/sec )

2) Turrets not great:
I’ve tested 33% dmg reduction/life regen on turrets and they still get killed in seconds. This is such a shame because a bunch of engineer utility skills are turrets, and none can be used efficiently in a dungeon because they die super fast, with long CD.

3) Gadgets feels really weak:
With recent A.E.D and GM traits, static discharge is probably more comfortable than before, but most of the time a SD engineer is a push over in dungeons because they have to invest a slot to take rifle turret. You end up being someone that doesn’t do much damage, and probably give 0 team support.

4) Flamethrower is weird

I think this kit has improved over time, I haven’t noticed it miss anymore when mobs are in close range. The only issue with this kit is the 2 skill is still really awkward, too slow, too hard to hit. If they just made the shot explode on hit this kit would be much much better. The best thing about flamethrower is that its a mid range option between bomb and grenade. Overall it gives good reliable dps because it doesn’t have random spread like grenades, and could out range bombs in many mobile fights to stay in a safer position.

5) Grenades the only good range option/but also have superior melee performance as well

Grenades does okay damage, it has a very high trade off because it’s manually more tiring to use, to aim. But grenades does amazing damage in dungeons when you consider how easy it is to stack vulnerability with it. You can say bombs do more raw damage than grenades, but bombs do way less damage than grenades when grenades make everyone in the team do 15%-2x% more damage. Even when you pulse stack vulnerability with bombs, you are just doing a huge less amount of direct damage when you cast anything other than 1.

6) Rifle/Pistol have horrible dps at range
This kills build diversity, engineers have no good range weapon.

In the end, you can say a lot of builds work. But the most versatile/optimal is always going to be grenades because of the range it has, and the huge offensive support it provides.

The problem then becomes, people think engineers don’t have good dps in dungeons, because a lot of builds don’t have good dps except grenades. Bombs get you through of course, but its just not the best dungeon kit IMO, its way better in PvP.

Anyway I don’t know what I am saying anymore, I just wish more builds could feel right for me, because I can see it being there, but it’s purposefully presenting itself weak.

dungeons are nothing you should care about that deeply… 15min facerolling through each. Even arah paths can be completed within 20min with engi, without getting into a hazzle.

But for the case you really wanna see high, and many numbers on your screen:
throw mine, BK, rifle turret, s/d, bunker down, forceful explosives, speedy gadgets.
keep minefield and BoB on cd, use throw mine to get stability stacks down and rifle #4 to make sure that BoB does not send the stacked boss away. also you have enough blasts for whatever situation.
The TNT spammer, my facerolling build for dungeons. To get even more spammy, switch speedy gadgets with s/d, delete s/d and go for nades / grenadier instead of rifle turret.

Seriusly, the advantage of the class is that we don’t have to decide between a couple of good weapons. We just take them all with us.

Vid unrelated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmJZRt3I9D4

Susulemon.3204:

You can say bombs do more raw damage than grenades, but bombs do way less damage than grenades when grenades make everyone in the team do 15%-2x% more damage.

Most elementalists take Weak Spot these days for dungeons, which mean they pretty much self-stack 25 vulnerability in seconds with Fiery Rush. The same can be said of warriors with Rending Strikes or thieves with Sundering Strikes.

Vulnerability is really quite plentiful in the current meta. If there’s an FGS on the ground, you should be using bombs.

i prefer nades to bomb but i use them quite often on me to kill more enemy at once with granadier trait . I find nades much faster to land

Engineers are more than adequate in dungeon runs but many of their kits were not designed for dungeon runs per se.

Frankly, dungeons represent the lowest skill in the game right now and many classes use the same exact sets of armor, same builds, few skills, etc.

The LAST thing ANET should do is balance around speed runs.

There is nothing that makes the engineer unable to do a dungeon as a group member.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Susulemon.3204:

You can say bombs do more raw damage than grenades, but bombs do way less damage than grenades when grenades make everyone in the team do 15%-2x% more damage.

Most elementalists take Weak Spot these days for dungeons, which mean they pretty much self-stack 25 vulnerability in seconds with Fiery Rush. The same can be said of warriors with Rending Strikes or thieves with Sundering Strikes.

Vulnerability is really quite plentiful in the current meta. If there’s an FGS on the ground, you should be using bombs.

If you can, tell the Ele not to take Weak Spot and spec raw DPS instead. If it’s a random pug dropping FGS and it’s out of your control how he specs, throw Grenade Barrage > Mine Field > Jump Shot before he FGSes then grenade until he does. Once Rush actually happens you can switch to bombs but you want to get that vuln stack as high as possible before the Rush actually happens so the ele gets max damage out of it. Otherwise he spends something like half of the actual Rush just building vuln and loses a lot of damage as a result.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you can, tell the Ele not to take Weak Spot and spec raw DPS instead. If it’s a random pug dropping FGS and it’s out of your control how he specs, throw Grenade Barrage > Mine Field > Jump Shot before he FGSes then grenade until he does. Once Rush actually happens you can switch to bombs but you want to get that vuln stack as high as possible before the Rush actually happens so the ele gets max damage out of it. Otherwise he spends something like half of the actual Rush just building vuln and loses a lot of damage as a result.

They are speccing raw DPS.

6/6/X/X/X is pretty much the cookie cutter max DPS setup for elementalist. And because Weak Spot is a minor trait, there’s nothing to necessarily “take” instead of it. Some prefer to run 0/4/5/5/0, but I think that’s a niche build as very few classes can maintain fury as well as elementalist. And if you have your engineer over a ranger or a second warrior, you definitely want to have the elementalist run 6 in Fire because you’re certainly not contributing that.

I also think you should next time seriously examine how fast a warrior/thief + elementalist with two FGS actually reach 25 vulnerability. It’s a waste of a slot reaching 25 vulnerability just a second or two faster when stuff literally melts with or without you.

If anything, you’re better off taking something like the Elixir Gun as a third utility, as those with FGS can die pretty quick to conditions since they really can’t cleanse themselves. Fumigate does a lot more for overall DPS than using Mine Field.

I don’t even play my engineer in dungeons anymore and just primary my elementalist because of how good FGS is at DPS and vulnerability stacking. Fractals we’re still king, but let’s be realistic here.

No one loses sleep over not having a grenade engineer in dungeon groups.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you can, tell the Ele not to take Weak Spot and spec raw DPS instead. If it’s a random pug dropping FGS and it’s out of your control how he specs, throw Grenade Barrage > Mine Field > Jump Shot before he FGSes then grenade until he does. Once Rush actually happens you can switch to bombs but you want to get that vuln stack as high as possible before the Rush actually happens so the ele gets max damage out of it. Otherwise he spends something like half of the actual Rush just building vuln and loses a lot of damage as a result.

They are speccing raw DPS.

6/6/X/X/X is pretty much the cookie cutter max DPS setup for elementalist. And because Weak Spot is a minor trait, there’s nothing to necessarily “take” instead of it. Some prefer to run 0/4/5/5/0, but I think that’s a niche build as very few classes can maintain fury as well as elementalist. And if you have your engineer over a ranger or a second warrior, you definitely want to have the elementalist run 6 in Fire because you’re certainly not contributing that.

I also think you should next time seriously examine how fast a warrior/thief + elementalist with two FGS actually reach 25 vulnerability. It’s a waste of a slot reaching 25 vulnerability just a second or two faster when stuff literally melts with or without you.

If anything, you’re better off taking something like the Elixir Gun as a third utility, as those with FGS can die pretty quick to conditions since they really can’t cleanse themselves. Fumigate does a lot more for overall DPS than using Mine Field.

I don’t even play my engineer in dungeons anymore and just primary my elementalist because of how good FGS is at DPS and vulnerability stacking. Fractals we’re still king, but let’s be realistic here.

No one loses sleep over not having a grenade engineer in dungeon groups.

6/6/X isn’t remotely close to a max DPS spec for eles, especially if you’re also having them run LH for your might and fury stacking. A 6/6/0/2/0 Ele has 20% less in modifiers than a 6/2/2/4/0 but has 200 more Precision and Ferocity, so the net difference is about 10% in damage.

Even disregarding that, an engie who insta-bursts 20 vuln saves the Weak Spot ele approximately 40 ticks worth of Fiery Rush to build vuln. That’s 40 ticks of Rush (about half of it) getting between 1-20% more damage than without the rush which is an average of 10% across those 40% ticks, or 5% of a Rush boosted.

So either you cut out Weak Spot entirely and boost FGS damage by 10%, or keep it in and boost FGS damage by 5%. It’s not a noticeable difference but it is a net DPS gain over taking multiple eles or any other class if you don’t need to be dropping multiple FGSes in rapid succession. Usually two eles max is all you need for FGS purposes.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Fumigate does a lot more for overall DPS than using Mine Field.

I think you mean acid bomb, right?

Honestly, I’ve been questioning the “engis should just stack vuln” wisdom for awhile now. Firstly, because it seems like in dungeon runs enemies reach maximum vulnerability without me anyway. Second, because I’ve found bombs to be so much more useful. The fire field is good for getting might, the smoke field makes for great defense and stealth, the bomb auto attack already does epic damage, and if I need to kite I just drop glue bomb and let enemies chase me. Grenades are good at range, but other than their distance they don’t offer as much utility. They do condi damage and have chill, and with steel packed powder they stack vulnerability, but that’s the end of it.

So lately (“lately” being the last time I really played the game) I have been using a 2/6/0/0/6 static discharge build. I use sitting duck in conjunction with glue bomb and net shot for spots of vulnerability, and with that I usually pack rifle turret + additional utility (I usually alternate between throw mine, elixir gun, and Utility Goggles). I figure that 15 stacks of vulnerability, if I’m not going for boon removal + blast finisher or support with the elixir gun. I’m debating whether to keep precise sights, since it is literally only half as effective as weak spot.

Ameno.6813:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Fumigate does a lot more for overall DPS than using Mine Field.

I think you mean acid bomb, right?

No, I meant Fumigate in the sense that keeping FGS wielders alive is a lot more important than a few stacks of vulnerability.

I know Guanglai likes to make it seem like every dungeon run he does is a clinical procedure, but I think the latest DnT tourney shows how things really are. Even if you run a dungeon a hundred times, simple mistakes still occur.

And an extra condition removal or two often makes the difference between an elementalist going down or not.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Honestly, I’ve been questioning the “engis should just stack vuln” wisdom for awhile now. Firstly, because it seems like in dungeon runs enemies reach maximum vulnerability without me anyway. Second, because I’ve found bombs to be so much more useful. The fire field is good for getting might, the smoke field makes for great defense and stealth, the bomb auto attack already does epic damage, and if I need to kite I just drop glue bomb and let enemies chase me. Grenades are good at range, but other than their distance they don’t offer as much utility. They do condi damage and have chill, and with steel packed powder they stack vulnerability, but that’s the end of it.

So lately (“lately” being the last time I really played the game) I have been using a 2/6/0/0/6 static discharge build. I use sitting duck in conjunction with glue bomb and net shot for spots of vulnerability, and with that I usually pack rifle turret + additional utility (I usually alternate between throw mine, elixir gun, and Utility Goggles). I figure that 15 stacks of vulnerability, if I’m not going for boon removal + blast finisher or support with the elixir gun. I’m debating whether to keep precise sights, since it is literally only half as effective as weak spot.

It’s not possible to keep vuln capped at 25 on a boss at all times without an engineer or 5 warriors with perfect synchronization. You simply can’t stack enough vuln with any other comp, you would need to be able to sustain 10 vuln per party member and most classes only sustain 4-5 tops.

It becomes a different calculus when you are talking extremely quick bursts (some classes can burst mobs to 25 for a very short time) or where there’s literally only one damage source that matters (Fiery Rush). But the longer the kill takes, the more important sustained vuln is going to be.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

But the longer the kill takes, the more important sustained vuln is going to be.

I’m not sure I’d characterize many boss fights in dungeons as “long.”

Phineas Poe.3018:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

But the longer the kill takes, the more important sustained vuln is going to be.

I’m not sure I’d characterize many boss fights in dungeons as “long.”

“Long” being “more than 5 seconds”. Not every fight can be FGS’d and otherwise even speedclears don’t kill bosses THAT fast.

6 6 0 0 2 full zerk gear

rifle

grenade kit
bomb kit
any utility for last slot (rocket boots are great for mobility)
supply crate

healing skill what ever the hell u like ur job will be full dmg not healing.

open up with big old bomb. then drop a fire bomb then use your conc bomb for confusion

swap to rifle use #2 then #3

swap to grenade kit use everything on cd and spam #1 for a few seconds

swap to bomb kit use #2 #3

back to rifle use #3

back to nades

obv u keep grenade barrage on cooldown and try to sync big old bomb with fire bomb.

with some practice u will get into a pattern where u know all the cds by heart and can tell when they are done.

engineers are all about kit swapping and using your main wep dps skills.

I also use sigil of force and sigil of strength as it has high synergy with the groups I play with.